I did not call you an idiot. I was simply demonstrating a point by taking your view to the extreme. Again I ask, where is the line and who draws it?

Again I am just against the stuff written purely to be used by pedo's for jerk material. I don't know how any story that in graphic detail describes in a penthouse letter type way the rape or molesting of a child is consider literature.

I understand both sides and I could see how laws and the government could be used against things that were not bad. But this is not like were talking about cook books, from the little, unprofessional knowledge that I do have it seems that most pedo's are not just gonna be content with reading a book. Why give them the fuel for the fire. Why not show the people that sex with children is wrong.

Being against something and declaring that it should be illegal are worlds apart my friend.

Like making it illegal?

I don't think you can legislate things that go on in people's heads. We punish acts, not thoughts. Child porn doesn't create the propensity for pedophiles to victimize children. I acknowledge that it is indeed problematic to have that kind of stimulation available for people with weaknesses for it. Look at alcohol, for example. FAR more people are victimized by drunk drivers than by sexual predators, yet access to alcohol isn't curtailed at all for society in general, despite the great loss of lives and property due to alcoholism. If there was an exception to made, I'd make the first exception for serious sexual predators, due to higher rates of recidivism, but I'm not ready for that legal leap yet.

I am a grey liner myself, but sometimes in my view there are no grey lines. I don't want my twisted views to dominate this thread anymore! sorry to all!

It is illegal in Canada.

i am not american, is it illegal to have sex with children in the states?

That's the issue. EVERYONE, like you, makes a passing judgement on something they have no interest in, or real knowledge about. However, most people don't qualify their opinion with "who am i to say...", which makes the vast majority of them appear to be outraged that adults are engaging in consentual sexual activities, and other consenting adults are purchasing a video of it.

I'm SO glad the world is a safe place now. I'm glad we've got Osama, cured all diseases, solved the problems of hunger, poverty, and lack of education not just here in America, but also in the whole world. Surely, since the FBI has SO MUCH TIME to be doing this, there must be no problems left to solve.

Children are not being poisoned by hardcore pornographic material, they're not being mind-warped by erotica, and they're not dying or being raped by their computers because of pictures of people's wives and girlfriends. But, yes, this generation of children in America is getting fucked up... and it's not Max Hardcore, NowThatsFuckedUp, sex and violence in the media, videogames, and movies... it's the stupid, lazy, piece of shit parents who are having them. As JumpinJesus said in another thread, about computer porn... (paraphrase) all these people want to move into a castle, put up a giant fence, and shield their precious little bastards from all the horrors of the world. They're fucking morons.

They brought this about, in this administration, with their agendas of hate, and their ignorance, their desire to rid the world of everything not matching what "they" believe is "right", and all because they're shitty parents who can't do something as simple as BE A PARENT and supervise their children's use of the internet, NOT BUY them violent or sexually explicit video games, and be informed on what kind of TV they're watching. It's the digital fucking babysitters called the TV, the XBOX, and the Playstation that are raising this generation of children, not the "parents". The other day I made a comment to a coworker about someone going out and having Tivo record up a couple of baby-sitters (meaning the parents would just sit them in front of the TV and let IT watch them), and this woman within earshot, who had two little kids with her, gave me the meanest glare. It's so funny that "i'm mad because i'm guilty of this" is always so plain on people's faces.

Yes. The age varies by state, and there are other things to consider (age of both parties for example). This rather clearly puts forth the message that sex with children is not acceptable.

That pretty much says it all.

Ever read I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou? There's a pretty graphic description of the rape of a child in that book. It's also considered a serious piece of literature.

Hey! Now, wait a minute....

Slow down there partner, writing a story about having sex with kids isn't even in the same league as real child pornography.

Pictures, for instance, are records of events that have happened not will happen. A story, distasteful as that story is, is a product of the imagination and by definition fictitious. Now it's certainly true that a story can reflect real events, but even then the logical course would be to punish for the actual event itself not the written record of it.

These stories are about fantasy (not a fantasy many of us wish to be involved with, but a fantasy nonetheless), so, I have no problem with that as long as Average American Joe keeps it in the realm of fantasy.

Personally, it offends. I don't like it, but I recognize that freedom/liberty/whateveryouwanttocallit doesn't apply solely to me. If I want to be able to say what I want to say, read what I want to read, so on and so forth, then it applies to all or it applies to none. I'd rather everyone had the opportunity.

There you go. That about sums it all up right there. :thumbsup:

The only thing FBI should be concerned about is Kiddie Porn - as in pictures.

Stuff like Beastiality, Scat, whatever... how/why exactly is that illegal? I mean, yeah, to me it's sick, but whatever. I didn't think two people consenting to pissing in each other's mouths and taking a picture was illegal.

Aaaanyway... as for written word: anything goes. The stories may be perverted and flat out fucking wrong, but they're fiction. Made up. Not real. They can't be attacked, because if THOSE are attacked, then that will lead into a plethora of other non-offensive material being attacked.

For example, if a best selling novel has a character that was raped/molested as a child - would that then be pegged as "kiddie porn"?

I think when taking sides in these matters, you can't really float from one side to the next. It's easy to get everyone riled up once you start the whole "but think of the kids!!!" thing, but... stories are just stories. No one was harmed. It's fiction.

It's very dangerous and scary once the govt actually starts telling people what stories they can and cannot write, no matter WHAT the subject. You might not agree with it, and it might go against every moral fiber that our culture has, but.. you can't really tell someone "do not write about this subject."

Very 1984ish.

If you want to 'protect children' from something, we in this country simply limit thier access to it.
Unfortunately, capitolism dictates that money = access. (kids have money, and use it to buy access to what is being restricted. As a case in point, when was the last time a movie theater refused entry to a PAYING customer, even if they were obviously underage?)
I agree that A LARGE part of why kids are so screwed up and vulnerable to predation is because they are not being parented, (not because of pr0n) but the reason for this is...complicated.