10-05-2005, 05:09 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Lenin's tomb, what to do with the body and space?
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What do you think should happen to the Lenin tomb and the necropolis?
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10-05-2005, 05:48 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Why not just leave it where it is. If it is getting to expensive to maintain, just seal it up. He doesn't have to be on display.
Better yet, why not keep it open but seal the body in a closed sarcophagus. I agree that they shouldn't forget their past. Another example of this is the tomb of Napoleon in France.
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10-05-2005, 05:54 AM | #4 (permalink) | |
Shackle Me Not
Location: Newcastle - England.
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I think this issue is perfect for the leader of the country to show his qualities.
No debate, no fuss. Just make an announcement. "This is what's going to happen... I'm sure Lenin wouldn't be the man he was if he questioned his every action and sought 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions on everything. Quote:
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10-05-2005, 05:57 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Comedian
Location: Use the search button
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Not an easy answer. I am never one to re-write history, and I believe that people should be reminded once in a while that history is not always pleasant.
But if the man is sprouting fungus, and the area is in a state of disrepair... someone should do something. I remember the guards at Lenin's Tomb. The way they marched, the way they held their rifles for ceremonial drill (fuck man that would suck, I thought Canadian drill was tough) and the way they had to LOOK a certain way. You were chosen by your physical features as well. Imagine someone doing that in the good ol' US of A. "Sorry son, but you don't look 'Marine' enough to do that duty..." If the Tomb is a symbol of what is holding Russia back, then maybe they need a symbolic change. I say move the body to a more historically appropriate place, like a national museum, or the first place he made a public speech, or the first place he massacred his dissidents! JK on that last one
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10-05-2005, 09:24 AM | #8 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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I am a bit biased against this display. My grandfather fled the Bolshevic Revolution. His father, a successful Jew, was killed in a street accident when Grandpa was only 5 or 6. The family began losing everything and a few years later,while he was still young, his mother died of illness and he was left, along with his brother to live with their uncle. Then the Revolution started-Jews were not welcome and they fled to Turkey, but soon after the Russian uprising, the Turks began their ethnic cleansing(the blueprint for Hitler's holocaust) and again they had to flee, coming finally to the US.
Bury him, preferrably in an unmarked grave. Those that followed him are no longer alive anyway. His ideals were murderous and long-since archaic. Hell, hand me a shovel, I'll pitch a few piles of dirt.
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10-05-2005, 10:57 AM | #9 (permalink) |
President Rick
Location: location location
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I think they should give it to Paul. Ringo can have George's.
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10-05-2005, 11:08 AM | #10 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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It should remain a shrine to the ideals of the working class, which Lenin attempted and failed to implement. It should not be forgotten that Lenin dealt a severe blow to the master class, and destroyed Feudal relations of production in Russia. Unfortunately it was capitalism and not socialism which fille dthe void of the system smashed by Lenin.
Lenin is a Russian and international hero who should be treated with the upmost respect. Its a bit much all these people to clamouring to defile the resting place of the dead to be honest. All revolutionaires are heroes and should be held in high esteem by those who live in the conditions they create. Millions of people were freed from slavery by Lenin. Yes, wage slavery replaced this total slavery... but the final destruction of feudalism and the creation of social capitalism, the final existing form of capitalism before the greta revolution ios a very important step in human history. Lenin will be held in higher esteem than Einstein, Lincoln, or Shakespeare in the fullness of time.
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10-05-2005, 11:11 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
follower of the child's crusade?
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Quote:
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
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10-05-2005, 11:15 AM | #12 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Wow. |
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10-05-2005, 11:31 AM | #13 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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And Hitler was 1/4 Jewish...what's your point? The fact that the leaders of the Revolution renounced their religious heritage does not negate the fact that it was a violent, killing revolution and those that did not embrace it were driven out, imprisoned or killed. Trotsky himself was imprisoned when he and Lenin parted ways for a time. He later embraced the idealism and became prominent in it. But for all the biographies, no mention is made of the fate of his own prominent Jewish family.
Link At the end of the 19th century there was an estimated 5,500,000 Jews living in Russia. Under a law introduced by Alexander III, all Russian Jews were forced to live in what became known as the Pale of Jewish Settlement. Exceptions were made for rich business people, students and for certain professions. The Pale comprised the ten Polish and fifteen neighbouring Russian provinces, stretching from Riga to Odessa, from Silesia to Vilna and Kiev. After the assassination of Alexander II in 1881 there was a wave of pogroms in Russia against the Jewish community. This led to a large increase in Jews leaving Russia. Of these, more than 90 per cent settled in the United States. A significant number of Jews played leading roles in the October Revolution. This included Leon Trotsky, Gregory Zinoviev, Lev Kamenev, Dimitri Bogrov, Karl Radek, Yakov Sverdlov, Maxim Litvinov, Adolf Joffe, and Moisei Uritsky. On 10th July, 1918, the Soviet government passed a law that abolished all discrimination between Jews and non-Jews. This resulted in a considerable amount of Jewish migration within the Soviet Union. As I had stated, my greatgrandfather was a prominent business man( we believe he owned a sweater factory at the time he was killed)My grandfather and his family fled before this law in 1918 came into effect, but rather than return to Russia, they came to the US as the Turkish Holocaust was beginning
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10-05-2005, 02:56 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Mulletproof
Location: Some nucking fut house.
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10-05-2005, 08:00 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Addict
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Lenin, as much as I despise the result of the ideology he furthered, deserves to have his corpse treated respectfully. I don't really care if they bury it or not, but it sounds like the corpse has seen better days. If he is starting to decompose, they should build a nice mausoleum for him and bury the body inside.
The current displaying area can be changed into a WalMart, that great symbol of capitolism. What's up now, Comrade?
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10-05-2005, 08:03 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Insane
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A Russian asking if Lenin was a Communist had to be the high point of this article.
I say they should give it to a major military industrial company, say Lockheed-Martin , in the united states to enshrine in front of their financial department. I bet they will take better care of it there than in Russia. Hell they could depleted-uranium-plate it. |
10-05-2005, 08:46 PM | #19 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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Anti-semitism in the soviet union? Certainly it existed, but it was the bolshevik revolution which ended the sanctioned pogroms of the Tsar, toppled his secret police - publishers of the "Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion" - and granted Jews full rights as citizens.
As for Lenin's corpse? It's a corpse - I could care less what happens to it either way . . . But I'd love it if an attempt to remove it served as a rallying point for a resurgent Russian left.
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10-05-2005, 08:54 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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A man that will be remembered over Lincoln, Einstein, or Shakespeare certainly should have corpse his respected. A man like Lenin however who furthered a moronic and flawed idealogy that is ultimately responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions world wide should be a remembered for what he is, a skidmark of the history of the world... I second the notion of an unmarked grave, to be nameless, a pathetic icon of an era and idealogy easily and happily forgotten.
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10-05-2005, 10:11 PM | #21 (permalink) |
Bang bang
Location: New Zealand
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All the vitriol against Lenin... why I could say the same thing about Reagan, but I digress...
Anyway that article has several points wrong the two most glaring of which are that yes the golden boy of liberal democracy in Russia, Yeltsin, had infact ordered tanks to shell the Russian pariliament in 1993 after his "democracy" didn't go his way, killing many members of parliament in the process. Secondly, Lenin himself wanted to be buried next to his mistress, not his mother as the article claims. Lenin was a great man, ideologist and politician, he cunningly exploited the apathetic czar Nicholas in order to seize control and begin to turn Russia from an agrarian state into an industrial power. His works are still one of the most scathing critiques of capitalism ever written, which are still applicable today. Now that my personal convictions about the man are out of the way... In Russian culture there is a strong respect for the dead, all the dead must be eventually committed to the ground in order to put their soul to rest. I believe that Lenin (if that is still him, not a wax dummy or a modern day Argo dilemma) should be buried on the grounds of the Kremlin alongside the other Sovied leaders. The grounds of the Red Square themselves are sacred, his mausoleum should be flattened and a plaque explaining who Lenin was, and what stood on this site should be left at that place, that is all. What I think will happen, Putin would leave it just as it is, doing away without would be against his ideology and would make him very unpopular.
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10-06-2005, 03:11 PM | #23 (permalink) |
I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot!
Location: Upper Michigan
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As much as some of us would love to see the corpse cremated or disposed of in some obsurd way I think it would probably be best that they bury him with the other former leaders, wise and unwise ones alike. To do otherwise would be lowering themselves to his level of disrespect for the dead. To bury the corpse does not have to be a way of showing respect for the man but a respect for live and death in general. I do believe he should be buried and the former monument turned into a simple declaration of what once stood there and what the man did with his life. It was a crucial formative part of what Russia is today and affected the rest of the world for decades so to wipe it clean and remove it completely would be allowing other's to forget. To forget our history means we will be doomed to repeat it someday.
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body, lenin, space, tomb |
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