sexualizing young wardrobes - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ARTelevision · 06-01-2003, 03:10 PM

no brainer: every time someone buys this stuff, they make more.
.........................................

HOW CAN ANY MOTHER BUY HER CHILD A THONG?

mirror.co.uk
May 29 2003

Mirror fashion director Ollie Picton-Jones on the sexy underwear that's aimed at our children

AS someone who's kept a close eye on fashion for the past 20 years, I'm pretty unshockable.

But what has concerned me more than anything else over the years is the sexualisaton of young girls.

And this week the situation reached a new low when headmistress Anna Roxburgh had to ban girls from wearing thongs to her mixed primary school.

The move came after Mrs Roxburgh, head of Hamp Community Primary School in Bridgwater, Somerset, spotted four 11-year-olds wearing G-strings while changing after PE.

But while she deemed their attire "inappropriate", some of the girls' parents seemed outraged that their daughters' underwear had been brought into question.

"They're fed up being treated like children," said Annie Milton, mother of an 11-year-old girl. "It's unbelievable."

No, what's unbelievable is that any mother bought her child such overtly sexual underwear to go to school in.

To allow girls of this age to go out dressed like that is simply stealing their childhood.

Marks & Spencer stopped selling suggestive children's lingerie several years ago following complaints from the NSPCC.

The Next store then found itself in the firing line for selling unsuitable outfits.

And last year Argos was forced to remove a range of G-strings and padded bras aimed at girls as young as nine from its catalogues.

But I'm still stunned by how much sexy children's clothing is available.

Yesterday a quick scout round the high street revealed a large selection of thongs and bras aimed at eight-to-11 year olds, plus much more for the 11-13 age group.

From Tammy girl at Etam I found an underwired push-up bra in black, priced £8, starting from size 28A. Surely a bra of that size isn't even necessary. It was also available in a strapless version.

And when I asked for a thong for a 10-year-old I was handed a skimpy G-string priced just 75p.

At clothes store Mk One I was horrified to find a sexy black bra and briefs trimmed with a satin bow.

The label inside said "age 9-10".

Topshop and Miss Selfridge underwear isn't specifically aimed at a particular age but the Oxford Circus branches were filled with schoolgirls on their half-term break snapping up the tiniest of briefs from a size 6, priced at three pairs for £7 and sporting logos such as "SEXY".

Little girls are clearly no longer content to wear the slightly greying pants and vests that my generation were brought up in. They see their idols Britney Spears and Atomic Kitten wearing trendy clothes and underwear and they want to do the same.

But thankfully it's not all bad news.

Marks & Spencer has just launched a range of underwear called Angel which has been created for teens in conjunction with Kidscape and the NSPCC.

And it seems to please kids and parents alike. The range includes first bras and matching brief sets for £12 that are ideal for schoolwear or weekends.

There are sporty versions and even "party bras" for special occasions with clear straps and pink flowers or pretty silver stars.

And now Argos is set to launch its own version which has also been devised with the help of Kidscape.

Michelle Elliot, director of the child welfare group, has long been campaigning against overtly sexual clothes for kids.

She says of the Angel range: "This is an attractive, well-thought-out range that pleases young girls and their parents. It's been responsibly created, and any girl will love wearing it"

BUT she remains angry at the wide availability of provocative clothing.

She says: "Thongs are designed to be sexy and revealing so why on earth would a parent want their children to show themselves off like that?

"They're intended to prevent a VPL but children really shouldn't be wearing something so tight they're trying to hide a knicker line.

"Parents should be protecting their children instead of encouraging them to go way beyond their years."

A spokeswoman for Marks & Spencer says: "There is a lot of concern among parents about what their children should wear and we feel that, with the Angel range, we've come up with a solution."

But it's unlikely that all retailers will fall into line so ultimately it's up to the parents to take control.
..................................

cute can mean other things besides sexy
but it's getting harder and harder to figure out what, exaxctly

billege · 06-01-2003, 03:18 PM

Who is to say that the kids aren't just trying to look grown up? I hope they aren't really concious of the sexual aspect. The thing is, kids are innocent; until we corrupt them. These little girls wearing thongs don't know they are being sexual, and the little boys aren't helping them change clothes, so it's not likely they are seeing them.

Adults project, kids don't. Adults see sexuality, kids just see a different kind of underwear. For a 8 year old girl to know that her ass will be a sexual part, she must be told. Little kids just aren't thinking like that.

They ARE thinking they want to have the same underwear and clothes as their idols, they aren't catching the sexual theme, because hopfully, they aren't aware of it yet.

Adults see a thong and think sex. Kids don't.

Unless you teach them.

So, the moral is: What are you teaching our children?

spectre · 06-01-2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
"They're fed up being treated like children," said Annie Milton, mother of an 11-year-old girl. "It's unbelievable."

Um...by definition, isn't an 11-year-old a child? What the fuck is wrong with people? This is so beyond fucked up that a parent would buy a thong and then see it as wrong that the school wouldn't allow it. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed.

JStrider · 06-01-2003, 03:22 PM

geez... i think once a girl gets to be 15-16 she can start picking out stuff like that to wear... but at 9 or 10 even 13 or 14 its just not a good thing... i mean would all those parents who buy their daughters that stuff want them to lose their virginity at that age?... sexy underwear is made to be sexy... to turn guys on... to attract them...
i dunno what to do about that kinda stuff... i know my daughters wont be wearing stuff like that till theyre in highschool...

Mael · 06-01-2003, 03:25 PM

i think kids see grown ups wearing sexy stuff and think sexy. i used to go watch skin-imax films late at night when the parents were asleep, and if thongs were big back then, i definatly would have thought of them as being sexy. kids aren't dumb and are really perceptive. i think they see their idols being sexy, and want to be sexy like them.

06-01-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mael
i think kids see grown ups wearing sexy stuff and think sexy. i used to go watch skin-imax films late at night when the parents were asleep, and if thongs were big back then, i definatly would have thought of them as being sexy. kids aren't dumb and are really perceptive. i think they see their idols being sexy, and want to be sexy like them.

And the parents are too damn lazy to teach them otherwise. That, or too worried about the kid's 'self-esteem' to not let them dress like "all the other kids."

We could prolly link this back to the media convincing us that 'young' is what we should strive for, and parents start reliving their youth through their kids at a younger and younger age.

Friend of mine has a daughter who is 14 now, I think, and he's going through this with his ex, who buy's her this kind of crap. He found a pair of thongs in her laundry a year ago, and came positively unglued. Would'a loved to be a fly on the wall for that.

Halx · 06-01-2003, 06:23 PM

Now, are there any parents on the board who want to comment on this now that the singles have had their stab?

Willowsr · 06-01-2003, 06:42 PM

Pulling up my soap box... I'm a parent... I am so sick of seeing, and talking to parents that are so afraid of being parents... of setting limits... of saying 'no' to their children for fear that their children won't like them... yes... some people should not be allowed to breed... I'm so fed up with avertisers selling sex... I'm so sick of the mindless drone public that eat it up... My first born daughter died chasing the sexual identity sold to her on TV, in Magazines, on billboards, on the radio... she never achived it... she hated her body, she hated herself because she wasn't as slim... her boobs weren't big enough... I was strict with her... perhaps a bit too strict and not loving enough... but I learned my lesson...

bottom line... yes, kids want to be 'all that'... because they want to belong... and the media says that to belong you've got to be 'all this'...

When are parents going to start rejecting the Advertising groups that market this to our children... when are we going to start teaching our children differently???

~springrain · 06-01-2003, 06:48 PM

i'm in a foul mood... and reading the above thread just made it worse...

Willow summed is up most of my/our feelings very well... i'll add more of my own personal thoughts later...

to save the board from an onslaught of negative energy... i choose not to comment tonight... but for now, let's just suffice it to say that i feel it's completely and totally FUCKED UP.

Double D · 06-01-2003, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Now, are there any parents on the board who want to comment on this now that the singles have had their stab?

Yeah, I am so f**king grateful that both my kids are boys.

As for sexuality, it's normal to be a sexual being. One can even see babies (boys at least) playing with themselves sometimes.

The sexualization (if that's a word) of clothing for little girls though, is truly disgusting and the indifference of some parents is worse.

SecretMethod70 · 06-01-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double D
As for sexuality, it's normal to be a sexual being. One can even see babies (boys at least) playing with themselves sometimes.

Yup - it's called curiosity. They suck their thumbs too - of course I guess you could argue that that's a deep seeded bit of homosexuality in everyone

I think I'll just stick to the fact that babies are by nature curious. EDIT: Wanted to clarify though that I DO think that kids are aware of sexuality by the time they're 11 years old - even years before then. I just don't think that's why babies touch themselves

As for this whole thing, I find it appalling. That quote spectre quoted nearly made me fall out of my chair. While I agree with a lot of your thoughts about the media harnessing great control over our thoughts art, I find it hard not to place a significant amount of blame on parents when we're faced with people like this mother - and many others like her.

mrap1 · 06-01-2003, 08:53 PM

While I don't think that any girl younger than maybe 15 should be wearing thong underwear, I also don't think it's the school's business to be regulating this. I think that as long as the girls aren't flaunting what they're wearing underneath their clothes that this issue should not be addressed in school.

I remember reading about a similar situation in which a male member of the faculty of a school was upset that girls were wearing provocative underwear so he decided that he would reprimand the girls that dressing inappropriately. Problem was, the only way for him to be sure that the girls were breaking the "rules" was to inspect their underwear. Needless to say this staff member was severely reprimanded and probably fired.

What I'm trying to say is that the issue of rightness or wrongness shouldn't be decided by the school. This is clearly a situation that needs to be handled by the family of the child. And if for some strange reason the parents decide that their child should be allowed to wear what they want, then so be it.

Also realize that we're assuming that the child has reasonable, non-abusive parents. If the child has unfit parents then this will manifest itself in the child's behavior, and she'll do more than just wear sexy underwear.

komodo · 06-01-2003, 09:54 PM

While I don't think letting young girls wear thongs or g strings is a crime (a lot of women find them far more comfortable), I think PADDED BRAS for NINE YEAR OLDS is crossing the line into something that can only be seen as sexualization.

seretogis · 06-01-2003, 11:42 PM

Sigh.

It all comes down to bad parenting.

SecretMethod70 · 06-02-2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrap1
the issue of rightness or wrongness shouldn't be decided by the school.

Unfortunately, bad parenting has become so common that the issue of right and wrong NEEDS to be enforced by the school because it's not being enforced anywhere else. Granted, that's not to say it can't be taken too far - that teacher you mentioned is a prime example. If I recall he (and another female member of faculty) were checking underwear at a school dance where the theme caused a lot of people to come in togas and stuff like that or something. CHECKING is obviously crossing the line - but if, like in this case, a teacher simply notices while they're changing for gym, it's unfortunate that schools are needing to take this role.

Daval · 06-02-2003, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spectre
Um...by definition, isn't an 11-year-old a child? What the fuck is wrong with people? This is so beyond fucked up that a parent would buy a thong and then see it as wrong that the school wouldn't allow it. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed.

I couldnt have said it any better.

krwlz · 06-02-2003, 05:48 AM

I need to point something out...

I, at 18, was in elemantary school not that long ago. I remember in KINDERGARTEN, a kid being in trouble for looking up a girls skirt...

Obviously we get the sexuality ideas from somewhere that early...

Now, I realize he was probably a special case, but it still goes to show that at 8, (thrid grade) the idea of sexuality isnt that far off.

I think the parents need to take action, but certinaly not the school.

Bill O'Rights · 06-02-2003, 06:25 AM

I am the father a 15 year old girl. Whenever we go clothes shopping for her it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find attractive, modest clothing for her. Everything seems to be cut up to here or down to there, showing way more skin than her dodering old father will allow. Of course, I'm evil for not allowing her to "look cool". I can sit here and rant about this all being started by Brittney and Christina, but I'll hold that for another time.

On a related note, however...My next door neighbor has a daughter that is a year older than my own daughter. She wears very revealing clothing and looks damn sexy in them. Not good, people. I am not a pedaphile in any way shape and or form but my mind was short circuiting between "Wow...she's hot" to "WTF man, that's just wrong." Now imagine how tempting all of this sexy attire, that's available now to the pre-pubescent set, could be to someone that's "not wired quite right", and doesn't have sufficient self-control. Maybe, just maybe, seeing a pair of thong underwear sticking up from the back of a pair of low rise jeans, on an 11 year old is what finally sets off a molester. To high a price to pay, in my book.

rockogre · 06-02-2003, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
I am the father a 15 year old girl. Whenever we go clothes shopping for her it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find attractive, modest clothing for her. Everything seems to be cut up to here or down to there, showing way more skin than her dodering old father will allow. Of course, I'm evil for not allowing her to "look cool". I can sit here and rant about this all being started by Brittney and Christina, but I'll hold that for another time.

Man, I can sympathize with you. My three girls were convinced that I was from the middle ages and was a preacher in another life when we went shopping for clothes. And this was BEFORE Brittney and Christina, check out some old pics of Madonna and Cher.

I also agree about other peoples children. My middle daughter was a cheerleader and some of her friends parents didn't seem to care if they wore anything or not. My daughter just thought that I didn't like her friends, what I couldn't tell here was that seeing her friends barely dressed made me feel like some kind of pervert every time I saw them.

This latest wave of "Sell Anything To Anybody" is just another notch down on our civilization and maturity level.

Tirian · 06-02-2003, 08:03 AM

My kids are boys, so I don't feel qualified to comment, but it constantly shocks me what parents let their daughters wear.

I stopped at a garage sale in my neighborhood, and the young daughter of the household was out in the tiniest bikini sunning herself on a towel on the front street sidewalk.

I think that (yes I'll say it) most parents seem to be dressing their little girls like young prostitutes or something. In many ways I have to agree with Bill O'Rights and his thoughts on potential pedophiles. And to rockogre: my boys think I lived in one of the dinasaure ages :-)

As an involved parent I have chosen to send my boys to a school that has a dress code as part of it's published rules of attendance. If you could tell that a child was wearing sexy underwear, than that child would be in violation of the code.

mtsgsd · 06-02-2003, 08:26 AM

it's encouraging to me to read the responses of the parents on this thread. My greatest peeve is the irresponsible way children are raised these days, and the way we shameless exploit our children in order make more money.

People that have the intestinal fortitude to take a proper roll in their children's upbringing deserve far more credit than they're ever likely to receive.

Don't think that I include myself in that group btw. I know I don't have what it takes to do it right, so I've made the choice not to have any in the first place. I'll probably regret it when I'm much older (I'm 42 now), but I know it's the right thing to do.

Sticky · 06-02-2003, 10:49 AM

I did not think that it was as bad as the article mentions until recently when I visited an Old Navy store to buy clothes for our daughter (a toddler). The girls section (5-12years approx.) was right next to the toddler section. On the rack right between the two sections was thong underwear for girls (ages 5-12approx).

I could not believe it. I showed my wife and she could not believe it either. We could not understand how Old Navy could sell these underwear to girls. Then after a bit of thought, we could not blame Old Navy. It is the parents fault. If parents would not buy these underwear for thier gilrs then Old Navy would not sell it.

What the hell are we doing to our children?

SecretMethod70 · 06-02-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sticky
Then after a bit of thought, we could not blame Old Navy. It is the parents fault. If parents would not buy these underwear for thier gilrs then Old Navy would not sell it.

What the hell are we doing to our children?

I agree with that about 80% of the way. Thing is, what happened to the idea of businesses being socially responsible? There's nothing stopping them from saying "this is simply wrong, we will not pander to this" except for greed.

Sticky · 06-02-2003, 11:47 AM

It is up to society to keep businesses socially responsible.
If we don't buy it they won't sell it.

Also, we are not talking about a small corner store selling whatever to whoever is not supposed to have it. We are talking about a large chain retailer (Old Navy, GAP, Banana Republic). They sell it becuase a very large portion of the population buys it. They can't afford to produce an item for a small fringe group, they way they make their money is by mass producing popular items and styles and then selling them at large markups.

BBtB · 06-02-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spectre
Um...by definition, isn't an 11-year-old a child? What the fuck is wrong with people? This is so beyond fucked up that a parent would buy a thong and then see it as wrong that the school wouldn't allow it. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed.

Completly stole the words out of my mouth

Quote:

Originally posted by Sticky
It is up to society to keep businesses socially responsible.
If we don't buy it they won't sell it.

Aye. And if we will buy it then SOMEONE will sell it.

Quote:

Also, we are not talking about a small corner store selling whatever to whoever is not supposed to have it. We are talking about a large chain retailer (Old Navy, GAP, Banana Republic).

Ah yes. The cold heartless Gap company. I swear. If the antichrist is not on the board of directors of wal-mart he WILL be on the board of directors for gap.

seretogis · 06-02-2003, 01:53 PM

At least WalMart sells some sensible clothing for girls.

Cynthetiq · 06-02-2003, 02:24 PM

so glad that i'm not currently a parent

VirFighter · 06-02-2003, 02:27 PM

Wow, not much I can add to this. As a red-blooded 19yr old male I love a woman in a thong. I wish there was a way to encourage more women to wear thongs. However, the thought "starting them young" is just creepy. Little girls should not be wearing things like this. Padded bras and gstrings on a 9 year old? Ugh, the thought just makes me horrible that someone would allow their child to wear such things.

I also agree that the school has no business restricting these girl's choice of underewear though. It is not the school's, network television's, the government's, or anyone's job to raise someone's children. It is the parent's job. Parents should not expect people to do their job for them. I hate then I see something on the news or in the paper, complaining like "how could the school let them do this" or "how could they show that on tv". If these people would monitor what their kids did then this wouldn't be an issue.

On the business issue. While I think a business should be run on a supply/demand basis almost all of the time I think there should be some kind of moral integrity somewhere along the line if not for anything except brand loyalty and image. If Walmart had a rack in their dvd section for bondage films that would probably upset consumers and probably turn some away. Yet, when it comes down to them blaming the businesses is just another way of passing the blame around the table. Blame MTV, blame Old Navy, blame Britney Spears; it does nothing. If you're a parent and you are upset about your 9yr old wearing a gstring and a push up bra then you've got no one to blame except yourself.

Although the scariest part of all this are the parents who have no problem with their 9 year old wearing such items. Sadly though you can't do anything except complain.

sixate · 06-02-2003, 03:20 PM

Anyone wanna bet that these 11 year olds wind up on the Titty Board in 7 years? I'm all for it.

Although, if I had a child there would be no fucking way in hell that I would allow my 11 year old daughter to wear shit like that. I'm always amazed when I go to the mall and see how parents let their young girls dress. Teach them to have a little self respect or you'll wonder why the hell they turn out to be a slut that'll fuck anything that moves and flash her tits every time some perv like me is around with a damn camera. Most parents are horrible. 80% of people who are having kids shouldn't be doing it. The sad thing is the people who would do a good job are the ones not having kids.

krwlz · 06-02-2003, 03:29 PM

Six, If there is one thing stupid people are good at doing, its fucking....without a fucking condom...

BBtB · 06-02-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Most parents are horrible. 80% of people who are having kids shouldn't be doing it. The sad thing is the people who would do a good job are the ones not having kids.

Right. Because many of the parents today were the ones getting nocked up at 16 yesterday. Now there kids are turning 10 and 11 and the parents are showing they have not matured one bit since they squirted that kid out. It really just makes me sick. The world is going to hell. I think its time for some old fashined biblical style species wiping out. Lets pick about 2000 of the greatest members of society. Put them in a safe area and then release some wierd ass virus that ONLY attacks humans and is super contagious and super deadly. Wait about 2 years then come out. Of course I have no illusion that I would be one of those 2000 but still. That is a sacrifice I am willing to make to save mankind.

krwlz · 06-02-2003, 03:40 PM

Sorry BBtB, I am not willing to make that sacrifice....not that I would need to of course...

BBtB · 06-02-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krwlz
Sorry BBtB, I am not willing to make that sacrifice....not that I would need to of course...

Of course we are not going to give the other 6 billion (ish) people an option in that one.

krwlz · 06-02-2003, 04:20 PM

BBtB, Who gets to make the list?

(sorry all, for getting this sidetracked

)

BBtB · 06-02-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krwlz
BBtB, Who gets to make the list?

(sorry all, for getting this sidetracked )

Why, me of course. I am god. I mean the idea wouldn't work. But it would be nice if it would.

Ogre840 · 06-02-2003, 04:44 PM

That makes me sick to my stomach.
*barf*

but I do remember being that young, watching MTV and the like seeing girls, and saying "wow I wish that little girl on the playground had somthing like that I could see."
Yes, somehow my friends and I knew what sex was back then, and we wanted it. That was till I learned what morals were...

but back to the point on hand. *BAAARF* bad times this world is headed for.

Sticky · 06-03-2003, 03:06 PM

VirFighter, my point was not that we should blame the business but that we should blame ourselves (the general public) for buying that crap. The business are only going to sell what we are wiling to buy in enough quantity to make them a profit.

VirFighter · 06-03-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sticky
VirFighter, my point was not that we should blame the business but that we should blame ourselves (the general public) for buying that crap. The business are only going to sell what we are wiling to buy in enough quantity to make them a profit.

Right and I agree with you for the most part. After rereading my post a couple times I can see where there might be some confusion. My transition is poor. I was using "blaming businesses" as an example of why blame is bad not to specifically calling out people for blaming businesses.

Hope that clarifies things. No one to blame except ourselves, we are responsible for how we spend our money. I'm with ya there

MSD · 06-03-2003, 05:38 PM

I am 19 now. I remember being 9, 10, 11. I remember my friends at that age. If anyone says that kids that age don't know about sex and won't respond to provocative clothing, they're wrong.

Sticky · 06-04-2003, 09:30 AM

VirFighter, it does clear things up.

06-01-2003, 03:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	sexualizing young wardrobes no brainer: every time someone buys this stuff, they make more. ......................................... HOW CAN ANY MOTHER BUY HER CHILD A THONG? mirror.co.uk May 29 2003 Mirror fashion director Ollie Picton-Jones on the sexy underwear that's aimed at our children AS someone who's kept a close eye on fashion for the past 20 years, I'm pretty unshockable. But what has concerned me more than anything else over the years is the sexualisaton of young girls. And this week the situation reached a new low when headmistress Anna Roxburgh had to ban girls from wearing thongs to her mixed primary school. The move came after Mrs Roxburgh, head of Hamp Community Primary School in Bridgwater, Somerset, spotted four 11-year-olds wearing G-strings while changing after PE. But while she deemed their attire "inappropriate", some of the girls' parents seemed outraged that their daughters' underwear had been brought into question. "They're fed up being treated like children," said Annie Milton, mother of an 11-year-old girl. "It's unbelievable." No, what's unbelievable is that any mother bought her child such overtly sexual underwear to go to school in. To allow girls of this age to go out dressed like that is simply stealing their childhood. Marks & Spencer stopped selling suggestive children's lingerie several years ago following complaints from the NSPCC. The Next store then found itself in the firing line for selling unsuitable outfits. And last year Argos was forced to remove a range of G-strings and padded bras aimed at girls as young as nine from its catalogues. But I'm still stunned by how much sexy children's clothing is available. Yesterday a quick scout round the high street revealed a large selection of thongs and bras aimed at eight-to-11 year olds, plus much more for the 11-13 age group. From Tammy girl at Etam I found an underwired push-up bra in black, priced £8, starting from size 28A. Surely a bra of that size isn't even necessary. It was also available in a strapless version. And when I asked for a thong for a 10-year-old I was handed a skimpy G-string priced just 75p. At clothes store Mk One I was horrified to find a sexy black bra and briefs trimmed with a satin bow. The label inside said "age 9-10". Topshop and Miss Selfridge underwear isn't specifically aimed at a particular age but the Oxford Circus branches were filled with schoolgirls on their half-term break snapping up the tiniest of briefs from a size 6, priced at three pairs for £7 and sporting logos such as "SEXY". Little girls are clearly no longer content to wear the slightly greying pants and vests that my generation were brought up in. They see their idols Britney Spears and Atomic Kitten wearing trendy clothes and underwear and they want to do the same. But thankfully it's not all bad news. Marks & Spencer has just launched a range of underwear called Angel which has been created for teens in conjunction with Kidscape and the NSPCC. And it seems to please kids and parents alike. The range includes first bras and matching brief sets for £12 that are ideal for schoolwear or weekends. There are sporty versions and even "party bras" for special occasions with clear straps and pink flowers or pretty silver stars. And now Argos is set to launch its own version which has also been devised with the help of Kidscape. Michelle Elliot, director of the child welfare group, has long been campaigning against overtly sexual clothes for kids. She says of the Angel range: "This is an attractive, well-thought-out range that pleases young girls and their parents. It's been responsibly created, and any girl will love wearing it" BUT she remains angry at the wide availability of provocative clothing. She says: "Thongs are designed to be sexy and revealing so why on earth would a parent want their children to show themselves off like that? "They're intended to prevent a VPL but children really shouldn't be wearing something so tight they're trying to hide a knicker line. "Parents should be protecting their children instead of encouraging them to go way beyond their years." A spokeswoman for Marks & Spencer says: "There is a lot of concern among parents about what their children should wear and we feel that, with the Angel range, we've come up with a solution." But it's unlikely that all retailers will fall into line so ultimately it's up to the parents to take control. .................................. cute can mean other things besides sexy but it's getting harder and harder to figure out what, exaxctly __________________ create evolution

06-01-2003, 03:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Who is to say that the kids aren't just trying to look grown up? I hope they aren't really concious of the sexual aspect. The thing is, kids are innocent; until we corrupt them. These little girls wearing thongs don't know they are being sexual, and the little boys aren't helping them change clothes, so it's not likely they are seeing them. Adults project, kids don't. Adults see sexuality, kids just see a different kind of underwear. For a 8 year old girl to know that her ass will be a sexual part, she must be told. Little kids just aren't thinking like that. They ARE thinking they want to have the same underwear and clothes as their idols, they aren't catching the sexual theme, because hopfully, they aren't aware of it yet. Adults see a thong and think sex. Kids don't. Unless you teach them. So, the moral is: What are you teaching our children? __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

06-01-2003, 03:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	geez... i think once a girl gets to be 15-16 she can start picking out stuff like that to wear... but at 9 or 10 even 13 or 14 its just not a good thing... i mean would all those parents who buy their daughters that stuff want them to lose their virginity at that age?... sexy underwear is made to be sexy... to turn guys on... to attract them... i dunno what to do about that kinda stuff... i know my daughters wont be wearing stuff like that till theyre in highschool... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

06-01-2003, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Now, are there any parents on the board who want to comment on this now that the singles have had their stab? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

06-01-2003, 11:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Sigh. It all comes down to bad parenting. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

06-01-2003, 03:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mael Banned Location: The Hell I Created.	i think kids see grown ups wearing sexy stuff and think sexy. i used to go watch skin-imax films late at night when the parents were asleep, and if thongs were big back then, i definatly would have thought of them as being sexy. kids aren't dumb and are really perceptive. i think they see their idols being sexy, and want to be sexy like them.

06-01-2003, 06:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willowsr Banned Location: Columbus, OH	Pulling up my soap box... I'm a parent... I am so sick of seeing, and talking to parents that are so afraid of being parents... of setting limits... of saying 'no' to their children for fear that their children won't like them... yes... some people should not be allowed to breed... I'm so fed up with avertisers selling sex... I'm so sick of the mindless drone public that eat it up... My first born daughter died chasing the sexual identity sold to her on TV, in Magazines, on billboards, on the radio... she never achived it... she hated her body, she hated herself because she wasn't as slim... her boobs weren't big enough... I was strict with her... perhaps a bit too strict and not loving enough... but I learned my lesson... bottom line... yes, kids want to be 'all that'... because they want to belong... and the media says that to belong you've got to be 'all this'... When are parents going to start rejecting the Advertising groups that market this to our children... when are we going to start teaching our children differently???

06-01-2003, 06:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
~springrain Banned Location: central USA	i'm in a foul mood... and reading the above thread just made it worse... Willow summed is up most of my/our feelings very well... i'll add more of my own personal thoughts later... to save the board from an onslaught of negative energy... i choose not to comment tonight... but for now, let's just suffice it to say that i feel it's completely and totally FUCKED UP.

06-01-2003, 08:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	While I don't think that any girl younger than maybe 15 should be wearing thong underwear, I also don't think it's the school's business to be regulating this. I think that as long as the girls aren't flaunting what they're wearing underneath their clothes that this issue should not be addressed in school. I remember reading about a similar situation in which a male member of the faculty of a school was upset that girls were wearing provocative underwear so he decided that he would reprimand the girls that dressing inappropriately. Problem was, the only way for him to be sure that the girls were breaking the "rules" was to inspect their underwear. Needless to say this staff member was severely reprimanded and probably fired. What I'm trying to say is that the issue of rightness or wrongness shouldn't be decided by the school. This is clearly a situation that needs to be handled by the family of the child. And if for some strange reason the parents decide that their child should be allowed to wear what they want, then so be it. Also realize that we're assuming that the child has reasonable, non-abusive parents. If the child has unfit parents then this will manifest itself in the child's behavior, and she'll do more than just wear sexy underwear.

06-01-2003, 09:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
komodo Tilted	While I don't think letting young girls wear thongs or g strings is a crime (a lot of women find them far more comfortable), I think PADDED BRAS for NINE YEAR OLDS is crossing the line into something that can only be seen as sexualization.

06-02-2003, 05:48 AM	#17 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	I need to point something out... I, at 18, was in elemantary school not that long ago. I remember in KINDERGARTEN, a kid being in trouble for looking up a girls skirt... Obviously we get the sexuality ideas from somewhere that early... Now, I realize he was probably a special case, but it still goes to show that at 8, (thrid grade) the idea of sexuality isnt that far off. I think the parents need to take action, but certinaly not the school.

06-02-2003, 06:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I am the father a 15 year old girl. Whenever we go clothes shopping for her it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find attractive, <b>modest</b> clothing for her. Everything seems to be cut up to here or down to there, showing way more skin than her dodering old father will allow. Of course, I'm evil for not allowing her to "look cool". I can sit here and rant about this all being started by Brittney and Christina, but I'll hold that for another time. On a related note, however...My next door neighbor has a daughter that is a year older than my own daughter. She wears <b>very</b> revealing clothing and looks damn sexy in them. Not good, people. I am not a pedaphile in any way shape and or form but my mind was short circuiting between "Wow...she's hot" to "WTF man, that's just <b>wrong</b>." Now imagine how tempting all of this sexy attire, that's available now to the pre-pubescent set, could be to someone that's <i>"not wired quite right"</i>, and doesn't have sufficient self-control. Maybe, just maybe, seeing a pair of thong underwear sticking up from the back of a pair of low rise jeans, on an 11 year old is what finally sets off a molester. To high a price to pay, in my book. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

06-02-2003, 08:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	My kids are boys, so I don't feel qualified to comment, but it constantly shocks me what parents let their daughters wear. I stopped at a garage sale in my neighborhood, and the young daughter of the household was out in the tiniest bikini sunning herself on a towel on the front street sidewalk. I think that (yes I'll say it) most parents seem to be dressing their little girls like young prostitutes or something. In many ways I have to agree with Bill O'Rights and his thoughts on potential pedophiles. And to rockogre: my boys think I lived in one of the dinasaure ages :-) As an involved parent I have chosen to send my boys to a school that has a dress code as part of it's published rules of attendance. If you could tell that a child was wearing sexy underwear, than that child would be in violation of the code.

06-02-2003, 08:26 AM	#21 (permalink)
mtsgsd Addict Location: Wisconsin, USA	it's encouraging to me to read the responses of the parents on this thread. My greatest peeve is the irresponsible way children are raised these days, and the way we shameless exploit our children in order make more money. People that have the intestinal fortitude to take a proper roll in their children's upbringing deserve far more credit than they're ever likely to receive. Don't think that I include myself in that group btw. I know I don't have what it takes to do it right, so I've made the choice not to have any in the first place. I'll probably regret it when I'm much older (I'm 42 now), but I know it's the right thing to do.

06-02-2003, 10:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
Sticky	I did not think that it was as bad as the article mentions until recently when I visited an Old Navy store to buy clothes for our daughter (a toddler). The girls section (5-12years approx.) was right next to the toddler section. On the rack right between the two sections was thong underwear for girls (ages 5-12approx). I could not believe it. I showed my wife and she could not believe it either. We could not understand how Old Navy could sell these underwear to girls. Then after a bit of thought, we could not blame Old Navy. It is the parents fault. If parents would not buy these underwear for thier gilrs then Old Navy would not sell it. What the hell are we doing to our children? __________________ Sticky The Stickman

06-02-2003, 11:47 AM	#24 (permalink)
Sticky	It is up to society to keep businesses socially responsible. If we don't buy it they won't sell it. Also, we are not talking about a small corner store selling whatever to whoever is not supposed to have it. We are talking about a large chain retailer (Old Navy, GAP, Banana Republic). They sell it becuase a very large portion of the population buys it. They can't afford to produce an item for a small fringe group, they way they make their money is by mass producing popular items and styles and then selling them at large markups. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

06-02-2003, 01:53 PM	#26 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	At least WalMart sells some sensible clothing for girls. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

06-02-2003, 02:24 PM	#27 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	so glad that i'm not currently a parent __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-02-2003, 02:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
VirFighter Insane Location: Raleigh, NC / Atlanta, GA	Wow, not much I can add to this. As a red-blooded 19yr old male I love a woman in a thong. I wish there was a way to encourage more women to wear thongs. However, the thought "starting them young" is just creepy. Little girls should not be wearing things like this. Padded bras and gstrings on a 9 year old? Ugh, the thought just makes me horrible that someone would allow their child to wear such things. I also agree that the school has no business restricting these girl's choice of underewear though. It is not the school's, network television's, the government's, or anyone's job to raise someone's children. It is the parent's job. Parents should not expect people to do their job for them. I hate then I see something on the news or in the paper, complaining like "how could the school let them do this" or "how could they show that on tv". If these people would monitor what their kids did then this wouldn't be an issue. On the business issue. While I think a business should be run on a supply/demand basis almost all of the time I think there should be some kind of moral integrity somewhere along the line if not for anything except brand loyalty and image. If Walmart had a rack in their dvd section for bondage films that would probably upset consumers and probably turn some away. Yet, when it comes down to them blaming the businesses is just another way of passing the blame around the table. Blame MTV, blame Old Navy, blame Britney Spears; it does nothing. If you're a parent and you are upset about your 9yr old wearing a gstring and a push up bra then you've got no one to blame except yourself. Although the scariest part of all this are the parents who have no problem with their 9 year old wearing such items. Sadly though you can't do anything except complain. __________________ "The South is gonna boogie again" - Disco Stu

06-02-2003, 03:20 PM	#29 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	Anyone wanna bet that these 11 year olds wind up on the Titty Board in 7 years? I'm all for it. Although, if I had a child there would be no fucking way in hell that I would allow my 11 year old daughter to wear shit like that. I'm always amazed when I go to the mall and see how parents let their young girls dress. Teach them to have a little self respect or you'll wonder why the hell they turn out to be a slut that'll fuck anything that moves and flash her tits every time some perv like me is around with a damn camera. Most parents are horrible. 80% of people who are having kids shouldn't be doing it. The sad thing is the people who would do a good job are the ones not having kids.

06-02-2003, 03:29 PM	#30 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Six, If there is one thing stupid people are good at doing, its fucking....without a fucking condom...

06-02-2003, 03:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Sorry BBtB, I am not willing to make that sacrifice....not that I would need to of course...

06-02-2003, 04:20 PM	#34 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	BBtB, Who gets to make the list? (sorry all, for getting this sidetracked )

06-02-2003, 04:44 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ogre840 Banned Location: OlyWa	That makes me sick to my stomach. barf but I do remember being that young, watching MTV and the like seeing girls, and saying "wow I wish that little girl on the playground had somthing like that I could see." Yes, somehow my friends and I knew what sex was back then, and we wanted it. That was till I learned what morals were... but back to the point on hand. BAAARF bad times this world is headed for.

06-03-2003, 03:06 PM	#37 (permalink)
Sticky	<b>VirFighter</b>, my point was not that we should blame the business but that we should blame ourselves (the general public) for buying that crap. The business are only going to sell what we are wiling to buy in enough quantity to make them a profit. __________________ Sticky The Stickman

06-03-2003, 05:38 PM	#39 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I am 19 now. I remember being 9, 10, 11. I remember my friends at that age. If anyone says that kids that age don't know about sex and won't respond to provocative clothing, they're wrong.

06-04-2003, 09:30 AM	#40 (permalink)
Sticky	<b>VirFighter</b>, it does clear things up. __________________ Sticky The Stickman