New Orleans/Katrina....endless stream of threads sticky

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by YKK

d*d:

I'm not going to justify myself or my actions to you, myself or others. Yes I am an opportunist. I think about other people but not in the sympathetic way you are implying, I think. Furthering myself and the people I surround myself with is an ideal I intent to uphold, no matter how ironic it gets.

Morals were made by people and are irrelevant in anything other than human society, which I try to seperate myself from.

edit: this post seems a bit bitchy, it wasn't intended to have that kind of tone.

So its ok if I shoot you in the head and take your wallet?

[Redlemon]

...with the authorisation to shoot and kill "hoodlums"...

"Hoodlums"? It makes this sound like a scene from West Side Story.

[highthief]

Most of the images we see of looting are of people taking stuff from Wal-Mart (inlcuding the security guards), Target and Circuit City type places. And some seem to be OK with this.

What if it is a mom-and-pop store getting jacked?

Is looting from private homes OK - no worry if when the rightful owners return they are missing all their stuff?

[Stompy]

*cough*insurance*cough*

..you know, the lil extra fee attached to your assets that you gotta pay each month for protection against "oh shit" unexpected events?

I really wouldn't care if someone broke into my house and took some stuff (aside from the temporary inconvence it causes me, of course), because you file a claim, report losses, and simply replace em.

It's not an open invite to come to my house and take my stuff, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

I love how people go to extremes... taking jewelry from a store... a dvd player, etc, is not the same as holding a gun up to someone's head and threatening them

[keyshawn]

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Is anyone else watching footage of this and listening to the reports and thinking Lord of the Flies come to fruition in real life?

I'm watching the complete collapse of civilization in a confined space and am realizing that this is what will cause the human race to become extinct. We've become so accustomed to modern technology that the absence of electricity is now considered life-threatening.

While I am sympathetic to those who are searching for necessitites for survival, I can't help but think that it's the very technology that's made our lives easier that has made us unable to survive without them.

I also see the looting and the utter anarchy that seems to be reigning in New Orleans as quite a statment on our culture of consumerism.

It's pretty ironic considering crime was less prevalent during tsunami rescue efforts in 3-world countries compared to the situation in SW Lousiana.[1] Furthermore, there hasn't reports of this activity in other areas that were hit by the hurricane [Mobile AL, Biloxi, MS and surrounding areas][2]

regards,
will.


/ 1. Correct me if I'm wrong about it, this is just my conclusion based on various reports of the tsunami cleanup.

/2. As 'gatekeepers'; the media may have decided to report on N.O. instead and ignore the other areas....

[Pacifier]

If I remember correctly you are correct about the tsunami, Indonasian civil war opponents even agreed to a cease fire.

I thought during such a desaster the people will more likely to help each other (the "we're in this together"spirit).

[highthief]

Originally Posted by Stompy

*cough*insurance*cough*

..you know, the lil extra fee attached to your assets that you gotta pay each month for protection against "oh shit" unexpected events?

I really wouldn't care if someone broke into my house and took some stuff (aside from the temporary inconvence it causes me, of course), because you file a claim, report losses, and simply replace em.

It's not an open invite to come to my house and take my stuff, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

I love how people go to extremes... taking jewelry from a store... a dvd player, etc, is not the same as holding a gun up to someone's head and threatening them

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in643465.shtml

Oh, well, I guess that's OK then.

[analog]

Originally Posted by keyshawn

It's pretty ironic considering crime was less prevalent during tsunami rescue efforts in 3-world countries compared to the situation in SW Lousiana.

The more you have, the more comfortable you are, the harder you fall when it's yanked out from underneath you. Many Americans will bitch if they have to walk more than 30 feet to get to anything from where they park their cars.

I can't tell you the bitching, whining, yelling, and anger displayed after Charlie hit us here in central florida last year... most people still had their homes- perhaps battered, beaten roofs, but still inhabitable- and the stores and restaurants with power had food, water, etc., as fast as they could unload it.

For pretty much most everyone- unless your entire home was destroyed- your major problem was a lack of power. That's it. I lost it for a week, many more lost it for a lot longer. The whining and bitching I saw was after only TWO DAYS of little or no power. It was insane.

The thing that gave me hope, though, was the amount of aid some people gave each other. I was at the Home Depot about 1 minute from my house, actually just picking up some screws for a project I was going to work on.. and a shipment of tarps, batteries, flashlights, generators, all that sort of stuff pulled up. It was all bundled together, so it took some time and people to get it all out and in usable stacks... but I was standing around watching this, and realized that there were a ton of people waiting on these supplies... and only about half of the people unloading the supplies had Home Depot vests on. I asked someone, and it turns out that random people who were there for other reasons, just jumped in and started helping to unpack, move, whatever. I really couldn't believe it. The manager (I didn't hear of this happening anywhere else, so I don't think it was corporate) even dropped the price on all that stuff to basically just a bit over cost, and even dollar amounts... so a pack of 4 C's that cost $5 before was only like $2 if i remember correctly, including tax... so all these people were just pushing whole-dollar cash back and forth (no having to make coin change) and the line went really fast. He even had 1 register set aside for "everything inside the store" and all the rest were running JUST for the provisions from the truck.

Sorry to side-track, just thought i'd TRY to put a little sunshine on the human race... because right now, the government has been failing those in need for several days now, and the very worst of human behavior has become pervasive there.

[Stompy]

Originally Posted by highthief

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in643465.shtml

Oh, well, I guess that's OK then.

You fail to make a coherent response. What does that have to do with anything?

If you're a homeowner and you don't know what you're insured for, you are an idiot. Period.

To put it bluntly - if you're underinsured, it's your own fault, whether you're victim of theft, fire, water damage, etc.

Were you tryin to go somewhere with that or something?

[Marvelous Marv]

Originally Posted by YKK

d*d:

I'm not going to justify myself or my actions to you, myself or others. Yes I am an opportunist. I think about other people but not in the sympathetic way you are implying, I think. Furthering myself and the people I surround myself with is an ideal I intent to uphold, no matter how ironic it gets.

Morals were made by people and are irrelevant in anything other than human society, which I try to seperate myself from.

edit: this post seems a bit bitchy, it wasn't intended to have that kind of tone.

Sounds like you should apply for a management position at WalMart. You certainly have no excuse to disparage them, with your philosophy.

[Marvelous Marv]

Originally Posted by Stompy

You fail to make a coherent response. What does that have to do with anything?

If you're a homeowner and you don't know what you're insured for, you are an idiot. Period.

To put it bluntly - if you're underinsured, it's your own fault, whether you're victim of theft, fire, water damage, etc.

Were you tryin to go somewhere with that or something?

I get it. If you're too poor to afford insurance, it's your own fault that you can't replace what was stolen from you.

Perfect.

[Elphaba]

Analog, your post about Home Depot was welcomed by me. The topic is about looting, but hearing about the generous spirit of a company and the volunteers that helped to make it happen is something we all need to witness.

I had one of my Pollyanna dreams last night where I owned/managed a grocery store in NO. Myself, employees and volunteers turned it into a 24 hour food bank, first distributing the perishables and baby needs, then everything else. Yeah, pretty laughable to some, I suppose.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by highthief

I did mention I've been in a similar natural disaster situation, didn't I? Was cut off for over a week from electricity and clean water and fresh food. For some reason, I didn't steal any TVs, or DVD players, or laptops. I didn't rape anyone in the shelter, and I didn't fire off a few rounds at choppers (well, I didn't see any choppers, they couldn't fly in all the ice, but I don't think I would've fired off any rounds). We did milk the neighbour's cow, however.

So, I guess I can use the term "savage" if anyone can - but honestly, you don't have to have gone through a disaster to know right from wrong, good from bad.

It's amusing how many people "know" right from wrong, good from bad, when they only realise it within the confines of their own beliefs. All of those concepts are completely subjective, and the only reason it sometimes seems like they are universal "rules" is that societies are built around shared values, including shared definitions of these terms.

[highthief]

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

I get it. If you're too poor to afford insurance, it's your own fault that you can't replace what was stolen from you.

Perfect.

That's what Stompy is saying.

If you're too poor, you're a dummy.

Never mind that people who rent are even more underinsured than homeowners. The guy trying to support his family on $12 an hour in that 2 bedroom apartment - it's OK to steal his stuff, the dummy should've gotten a better job, lazy bugger. Then he'd be able to afford to lose his stuff, just like Stompy.

Losing everything that was still salvagable to looters is just what poor people deserve. And poor black people, poor old people, single mothers - they deserve to lose their stuff even more. Shoulda called All-State, dummies.

[highthief]

Originally Posted by Suave

It's amusing how many people "know" right from wrong, good from bad, when they only realise it within the confines of their own beliefs. All of those concepts are completely subjective, and the only reason it sometimes seems like they are universal "rules" is that societies are built around shared values, including shared definitions of these terms.

Yes, society is governed by societal norms and rules that differ from society to society (its OK to be gay in one place, not in another, for instance) "thou shalt not steal", however, is pretty universal.

[Daniel_]

That's the American dream - it's a true meritocracy. The more you deserve the more you get.

The obvious conclusion is that the poor are poor because they just weren't trying hard enough.

The fact that poverty is more prevalent in black parts of town must be because the black people didn't want more success.

(please note that I am being sarcastic)

[flat5]

I have not found any info on the relief food.
What is the package provided for emergencies?
Or for troops in the field?

[Blackthorn]

They are called MRE's or Meals Ready to Eat.

Linkage

Meal, Ready to Eat, Individual [MRE]



Modern battlefield requirements demand ration support systems that adequately provide for the needs of the individual combatant in extremely intense and highly mobile combat situations. The standard military ration for the individual warfighter is the MRE which replaced the Meal, Combat Individual (C Ration) in the early 1980's. The MRE must maintain high quality for three years at 80o F and six months at 100o F, be highly acceptable, and meet the Office of The Surgeon General's nutritional requirements (AR40-25). In addition, MRE packaging must meet stringent durability requirements (to include airdrop, rough handling and temperature extremes).
Since its introduction, the MRE has been continuously improved. However, the "MRE" designation is popularly expanded as "Meals Rejected by Ethiopians" or "Meals Rejected by Everyone." As a result of consumer feedback from Operation Desert Shield/Storm, major customer focus improvements have been implemented to expand variety and improve acceptability, consumption, and nutritional intake to enhance performance on the battlefield.

Since MRE XIII (1993 Date-of-Pack (DOP)), 70 new items (70% Non Developmental Items (NDI) were approved for the MRE. Fourteen of the least acceptable items were replaced. The number of menus increased, incrementally, from 12 to 24 and four vegetarian meals are now included (two in each case).

[tecoyah]

K-rations from military sources
canned foods from relief agancies
misc. donated foodstuffs

OK question answered

[Misz]

I was ready quadro2000's post which is Here

I completely agree with quadro on this one.

Now go to bigboys and watch this video Here

I completely agree I dont think bush cares.

[scout]

Perhaps you should go back to the first link you posted, go to the second page, find the Snopes link, follow the Snopes link and read it.

[Rlyss]

I disagree. I think he does care, just as much as he does about the white people stuck in the area. The 'looting/finding' picture has absoutely nothing to do with George Bush, that was discussed at length in the thread you pointed out. Bush didn't write the articles.

He may be at fault for not organizing proper emergence responses more quickly to New Orleans.

From what little I really know about New Orleans, I understand there is a very large black population, and that they perhaps make up the majority of the poor in the city. The poorer people most likely live in areas which have fewer safety precautions, they might have less access to transport than more wealthy or middle class people. People with not much money are people with not much money, I don't see how color is a factor here at all. Like I said, it may seem like the news coverage is showing mainly blacks in desparate situations. I wonder if it's true that white people aren't shown as much as blacks. Perhaps if people already have it in their minds that blacks are being ignored and neglected they are more likely to notice when they are in peril?

Sorry, I see two points here, that George Bush has been slow to react to New Orleans, and that there are many black people in New Orleans. I see absolutely no connection between the two at all and wish people would supply some evidence when they say something as broad and as vague as 'Bush doesn't care'.

[tecoyah]

In an attempt to clean up like threads...we will be placing duplicate/like threads under one roof. Some threads will remain on the main boards for discussion as a stand alone but, as they become a repeat of the same information (and most will) they will be merged into this.

[mrklixx]

Squirrel pundit on Katrina

[MexicanOnABike]

fucking crazy ppl shooting at the police again...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/kat...act/index.html

Report: Police shoot gunmen

Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on contractors crossing a bridge to make levee repairs, The Associated Press reported.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley told AP that police shot at eight people who had guns, killing five or six.

The Army Corps of Engineers told AP that 14 contractors escorted by police were fired upon while crossing the Danziger Bridge, which spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

Corps spokesman John Hall told AP the contractors were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help fix a breech in the 17th Street Canal.

Initial AP reports had wrongly indicated that the contractors themselves were shot by police; no other details were immediately available.

edit: well the report was wrong... this is the corect version i hope.. unless cnn is covering up for the army.

[psicon]

I live in Lafourche Parish,just about 50-60 miles southwest of New Orleans.We just got power back on at my house today.My 2 year old son,my wife,my Mother and I were w/o a/c clean water and hot food since 8/31/05.And if you think that itis all fun and games come down for a visit.They are people down here that still don't have power.New Orleans is worst off than we are children with no food or water for days elderly people who need medical attention.People trapped in their attics to get away from flood waters.All this in 95 degree heat.Your survey is a good idea but,until you see the misery with your own eyes.Don't make a decison.I for one think that Pres. Bush should rot in hell for not helping sooner. Thank you.

[pan6467]

To show how paranoid I am..... I would be of the belief if photographed for the news as a looter or taking something (even food) after all this was over I'd be found and arrested for theft.

I feel for those if that happens and as sad as I am to say this..... I believe companies like Wal*Mart and the Insurers will prosecute using the news clips to find those people.

I truly hope I am just a pessimist in this situation.

[tecoyah]

Originally Posted by psicon

I live in Lafourche Parish,just about 50-60 miles southwest of New Orleans.We just got power back on at my house today.My 2 year old son,my wife,my Mother and I were w/o a/c clean water and hot food since 8/31/05.And if you think that itis all fun and games come down for a visit.They are people down here that still don't have power.New Orleans is worst off than we are children with no food or water for days elderly people who need medical attention.People trapped in their attics to get away from flood waters.All this in 95 degree heat.Your survey is a good idea but,until you see the misery with your own eyes.Don't make a decison.I for one think that Pres. Bush should rot in hell for not helping sooner. Thank you.

We are just Glad you are safe.....good news is rare right now

[noodle]

What I don't understand is how the dying and dehydrated, heat-stroked, exhausted people who've been up "looting" all night have the energy to rape each other and shoot at cops/helicopters/each other. The WalMart clip raised my ire so much that I nearly spit. The police officers had no apologies for grabbing shoes and things off the shelves. You're underwater. Shoes? At least the kid put the hot-pink shorts back.

It's just so frustrating to watch, and to listen to everyone's excuses on why the government didn't act sooner in making people leave, in making the necessary levee modifications, and for those higher up in the hierarchy who have their own excuses. I'd love it if someone would just stand up and say...

"Hi, my name is ________________. I admit it, I screwed up. Here's what I'm going to do to help now. I'm sorry."

[smooth]

Originally Posted by Rlyss

From what little I really know about New Orleans, I understand there is a very large black population, and that they perhaps make up the majority of the poor in the city. The poorer people most likely live in areas which have fewer safety precautions, they might have less access to transport than more wealthy or middle class people. People with not much money are people with not much money, I don't see how color is a factor here at all.

As of 2000 census data, 27.4% of the population in New Orleans is below the poverty line--84% of those are black. It's also disproportionately murderous having the highest murder rates in the country for years. 35% of it's black population didn't have access to cars, compared to 15% of the white population. The white, middle class has steadily moved to higher ground (figuratively and literally) leaving the impoverished, minorities in the most dangerous segments of town (both criminally dangerous and most susceptable to natural disasters such as we're now witnessing).

The reason why color is a factor here at all is because the most people without much money in this town, historically, regretably, but in reality, are black.

[aberkok]

Originally Posted by fredweena

What I don't understand is how the dying and dehydrated, heat-stroked, exhausted people who've been up "looting" all night have the energy to rape each other and shoot at cops/helicopters/each other...

The following article was very refreshing to read. I really do hope that all these rumours are false:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/st...563532,00.html

Murder and rape - fact or fiction?

Gary Younge in Baton Rouge
Tuesday September 6, 2005
The Guardian

There were two babies who had their throats slit. The seven-year-old girl who was raped and murdered in the Superdome. And the corpses laid out amid the excrement in the convention centre.

In a week filled with dreadful scenes of desperation and anger from New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina some stories stood out.

But as time goes on many remain unsubstantiated and may yet prove to be apocryphal.

New Orleans police have been unable to confirm the tale of the raped child, or indeed any of the reports of rapes, in the Superdome and convention centre.

Article continues
New Orleans police chief Eddie Compass said last night: "We don't have any substantiated rapes. We will investigate if the individuals come forward."

And while many claim they happened, no witnesses, survivors or survivors' relatives have come forward.

Nor has the source for the story of the murdered babies, or indeed their bodies, been found. And while the floor of the convention centre toilets were indeed covered in excrement, the Guardian found no corpses.

During a week when communications were difficult, rumours have acquired a particular currency. They acquired through repetition the status of established facts.

One French journalist from the daily newspaper Libération was given precise information that 1,200 people had drowned at Marion Abramson school on 5552 Read Boulevard. Nobody at the Federal Emergency Management Agency or the New Orleans police force has been able to verify that.

But then Fema could not confirm there were thousands of people at the convention centre until they were told by the press for the simple reason that they did not know.

"Katrina's winds have left behind an information vacuum. And that vacuum has been filled by rumour.

"There is nothing to correct wild reports that armed gangs have taken over the convention centre," wrote Associated Press writer, Allen Breed.

"You can report them but you at least have to say they are unsubstantiated and not pass them off as fact," said one Baltimore-based journalist.

"But nobody is doing that."

Either way these rumours have had an effect.

Reports of the complete degradation and violent criminals running rampant in the Superdome suggested a crisis that both hastened the relief effort and demonised those who were stranded.

By the end of last week the media in Baton Rouge reported that evacuees from New Orleans were carjacking and that guns and knives were being seized in local shelters where riots were erupting.

The local mayor responded accordingly.

"We do not want to inherit the looting and all the other foolishness that went on in New Orleans," Kip Holden was told the Baton Rouge Advocate.

"We do not want to inherit that breed that seeks to prey on other people."

The trouble, wrote Howard Witt of the Chicago Tribune is that "scarcely any of it was true - the police confiscated a single knife from a refugee in one Baton Rouge shelter".

"There were no riots in Baton Rouge. There were no armed hordes."

Similarly when the first convoy of national guardsmen went into New Orleans approached the convention centre they were ordered to "lock and load".

But when they arrived they were confronted not by armed mobs but a nurse wearing a T-shirt that read "I love New Orleans".

"She ran down a broken escalator, then held her hands in the air when she saw the guns," wrote the LA Times.

"We have sick kids up here!" she shouted.

"We have dehydrated kids! One kid with sickle cell!"

This is the perfect time for lies and hearsay to flourish. Don't let them become a part of your thinking!

[Ella]

And hurrah! Alex Chilton is alive and well!!

Source

[wolf]

What is sickening now is FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security saying that they were very surprised that the leavies broke and that the destruction is as bad as it is. Come on! All of the weather people and the NOAA were telling them this for days. Please.

[flat5]

Got this today. Want to pass it on. Of course, you, who don't want to believe racism is rampant in the USA will say this account is not true.
---

Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:10:52

Reply-To: LWV State and Local League Presidents
lwv-presidents@lists.lwv.org
To: lwv-presidents@lists.lwv.org

Subject: disturbing litany of Katrina survivors, tourists

People who really know what it was like are beginning to tell their stories.
Here's a first hand report that will make you think. Could any of us have
done any better?

* Hurricane Katrina - Our Experiences *
* By Parmedics Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky EMS Network News *

Tuesday 06 September 2005

Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at
the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The dairy display
case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48 hours without
electricity, running water, plumbing. The milk, yogurt, and cheeses were
beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked
up the food, water, pampers, and prescriptions and fled the City. Outside
Walgreen's windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and
hungry.

The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and the
windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an alternative. The
cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit
juices, and bottle water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did
not. Instead they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing
away the looters.

We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived home
yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or look at a
newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video images or
front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists looting the
Walgreen's in the French Quarter.

We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images of the
National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the "victims"
of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed, were the
real heroes and she-roes of the hurricane relief effort: the working class
of New Orleans. The maintenance workers who used a fork lift to carry the
sick and disabled. The engineers, who rigged, nurtured and kept the
generators running. The electricians who improvised thick extension cords
stretching over blocks to share the little electricity we had in order to
free cars stuck on rooftop parking lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical
ventilators and spent many hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs
of unconscious patients to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck
in elevators. Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats
to rescue their neighbors clinging to their roofs in flood waters. Mechanics
who helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry people out of the
City. And the food service workers who scoured the commercial kitchens
improvising communal meals for hundreds of those stranded. Most of these
workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from members of their
families, yet they stayed and provided the only infrastructure for the 20%
of New Orleans that was not under water.

On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in the
French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees like
ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and shelter
from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and friends
outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts of resources
including the National Guard and scores of buses were pouring in to the
City. The buses and the other resources must have been invisible because
none of us had seen them.

We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up with
$25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those who did
not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by those who did
have extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses, spending the last 12
hours standing outside, sharing the limited water, food, and clothes we had.
We created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and new born
babies. We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the
buses. The buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived
to the City limits, they were commandeered by the military.

By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was
dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street crime
as well as water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out and locked
their doors, telling us that the "officials" told us to report to the
convention center to wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the
City, we finally encountered the National Guard. The Guards told us we would
not be allowed into the Superdome as the City's primary shelter had
descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole. The guards further told
us that the City's only other shelter, the Convention Center, was also
descending into chaos and squalor and that the police were not allowing
anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked, "If we can't go to the only 2
shelters in the City, what was our alternative?" The guards told us that
that was our problem, and no they did not have extra water to give to us.
This would be the start of our numerous encounters with callous and hostile
"law enforcement".

We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street and were
told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not have water
to give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass meeting to
decide a course of action. We agreed to camp outside the police command
post. We would be plainly visible to the media and would constitute a highly
visible embarrassment to the City officials. The police told us that we
could not stay. Regardless, we began to settle in and set up camp. In short
order, the police commander came across the street to address our group. He
told us he had a solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway
and cross the greater New Orleans Bridge where the police had buses lined up
to take us out of the City. The crowed cheered and began to move. We called
everyone back and explained to the commander that there had been lots of
misinformation and wrong information and was he sure that there were buses
waiting for us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated emphatically,
"I swear to you that the buses are there."

We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great
excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many locals
saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were headed. We
told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few
belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in
strollers now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and
others people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up
the steep incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did
not dampen our enthusiasm.

As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the
foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing
their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various
directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched
forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told
them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's
assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The
commander had lied to us to get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there
was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank
was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in
their City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not
crossing the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans.

Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the rain
under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to build an
encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center
divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be
visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated
freeway and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen
buses.

All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same
trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned
away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be
verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented
and prohibited from self-evacuating the City on foot. Meanwhile, the only
two City shelters sank further into squalor and disrepair. The only way
across the bridge was by vehicle. We saw workers stealing trucks, buses,
moving vans, semi-trucks and any car that could be hotwired. All were packed
with people trying to escape the misery New Orleans had become.

Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water delivery truck
and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so down the
freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on a tight
turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping carts. Now secure
with the two necessities, food and water; cooperation, community, and
creativity flowered. We organized a clean up and hung garbage bags from the
rebar poles. We made beds from wood pallets and cardboard. We designated a
storm drain as the bathroom and the kids built an elaborate enclosure for
privacy out of plastic, broken umbrellas, and other scraps. We even
organized a food recycling system where individuals could swap out parts of
C-rations (applesauce for babies and candies for kids!).

This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When
individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for
yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your kids or
food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began to look
out for each other, working together and constructing a community. If the
relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water in the first
2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness would not
have set in.

Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing families
and individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our encampment grew to 80
or 90 people.

From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media was
talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news
organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked
what they were going to do about all those families living up on the
freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care of us.

Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to
it.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was
correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his
patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking
freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow
away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck
with our food and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed
into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob"
or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was
impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups.

In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered
once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought
refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were
hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were
hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and
shoot-to-kill policies.

The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact with New
Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an urban search
and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and managed to catch a
ride with the National Guard. The two young guardsmen apologized for the
limited response of the Louisiana guards. They explained that a large
section of their unit was in Iraq and that meant they were shorthanded and
were unable to complete all the tasks they were assigned.

We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The
airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of
humanity as flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush landed
briefly at the airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a coast
guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio, Texas.

There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort
continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where we were
forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have
air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were forced to share two
filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with any
possessions (often a few belongings in tattered plastic bags) we were
subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.

Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been confiscated
at the airport because the rations set off the metal detectors. Yet, no food
had been provided to the men, women, children, elderly, disabled as they sat
for hours waiting to be "medically screened" to make sure we were not
carrying any communicable diseases.

This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt
reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker give
her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street offered us
money and toiletries with words of welcome. Throughout, the official relief
effort was callous, inept, and racist.

There was more suffering than need be.

Lives were lost that did not need to be lost.

Bradshaw and Slonsky are paramedics from California that were attending the
EMS conference in New Orleans. Larry Bradshaw is the chief shop steward,
Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790; and Lorrie Beth Slonsky is steward,
Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790.

[Ella]

Unbelievable, outrageous and disgusting. What an incredible story.

[flstf]

I wonder if the two officers shown putting items in a shopping cart in the video referenced in the original post of this thread are among those being investigated?
New Orleans Police Probe Officers for Alleged Looting

New Orleans Police Probe Officers for Alleged Looting (Update2)
Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The New Orleans Police Department is investigating as many as 12 officers for allegedly looting homes around the city during the Hurricane Katrina rescue and recovery effort.

Video the department obtained shows some officers standing by while citizens looted local stores, and another video shows some officers taking items that may have been for personal gain and not necessity, acting Superintendent Warren Riley told reporters today in downtown New Orleans.

``One video shows some officers in a location where they were not in fact looting but civilians in the stores were looting and they took no action,'' Riley said.

Four officers who took no action against looters have been suspended and a fifth has been reassigned, he said. Riley is working to identify the other seven officers being investigated. He wouldn't say how long the investigation might take. Riley replaced Eddie Compass, who earlier this week announced he would retire after 26 years on the force.