Marvelous Marv

Why should people HAVE to "be a little kinder? " It's an indication of good breeding if they do, but in today's world I would daresay it's impossible to keep up with everything that might offend everyone else.

I consider it another indication of good breeding for a person to overlook the occasional unintentional faux pas from someone else.

As well as the intentional ones.

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cowlick

Just caught this thread and that is exactly what I was wondering. Unless the restaraunt does trade under the name 'Jew Couple' it would hardly make sense for this to appear on the credit card statement.

That said, I still see several reasons why this is insulting.

• Calling two people 'Jew Couple' reduces them to nameless stereotypes and doesn't consider them as people
• Call people whatever the hell weird shit you want behind their back. Call them something odd or off kilter to their face, that's an insult.

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fatmanforprez

Ok i am gonna have to side with what seems to be the majority here, not a good idea but nothing to sue over.

Jew is not an insult plain and simple it is an identifier and one that (assuming he was in fact jewish) he should be proud to wear. Recognising differences is not racist, clearly it worked cause they got the right bill. I wish more people would just be proud of what they are instead of pretending there are no differences cause htye are affraid of offending someone, my best friend is jewish and ill be damned if I aint gonna call him "that jew over there" (dating the beutiful french girl at that) when its the best identifier. Its not racist or derragatory it is an identifier, and one that represents the persons beliefs when correctly used, one shouldnt feel the need ot be offended cause somone adknowledges your beliefs. This man should be counter sued for frivalous lawsuits and for being a grade A1 dick

Cynthetiq

I see so when people homes were spray painted with "JEW" in the 1940's they should have been proud to have it on their door. When people were chased down the street with crowds yelling after them shouting "JEW!!!" they were just trying to bring happiness to the person.

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lindseylatch

If it's true, then you can't be sued. *shrugs*

And as for it being difficult to indentify a Jewish person unless their wearing some sort of religious stuff...HAHAHAHA!! I'm sure we all know about the stereotypes of curly hair, big nose, etc...

And I'm with the people calling "fake." There's NO WAY that would have showed up on the credit card bill.

And painting Jew on someones shop window was not offensive, it was fucking scary, cause then you knew that you had been IDed by the authorities.
Anything can be used as a epithet, but that doesn't mean every single usage of the word is one.

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Redlemon

And continuing the trend...
Credit Card Offer Addressed To 'Palestinian Bomber'

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jwoody

... J.P. Morgan has since fired the minimum wage, no-rights, part-time call centre worker and employed a replacement minimum wage, no-rights, part-time call centre worker from the same agency.

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fatmanforprez

Ok trying to respond to Cynthetiq here

There is a fundamentle difference between this incident and having jew spraypainted on your door. The point i was trying to get across is it is an identifier that was created to refer to members of a religion, it isnt offensive to use in polite conversation, its hardly being used here to repress or lynch a jew-ish couple. The examples you gave were crooked at best, they show the evils of the world and say that we should all feel our vocabularies restricted because a work can be used in a negative way. Nevermind that the word isnt negative its not like racial slurs that have no place in ocnversation and offend people automagically, rather it is an identifier and people should get a backbone, if its thier belief then they shouldnt feel bad to be identified by it. I hereby claim that the word fire is never to be used because it can precede the ending of a life. I also hereby decree that all guns are to be taken away cause they can be used to take a life

never mind the whole "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" truism

Xazy

So why does this identifier, have to go on his credit card statement? Sorry I eat out normally 2-4 times a week, I happen to be Jewish. I have yet to in any resturaunt seen any identifier needed to state such on a bill EVER!

What sort of identifiers do you stumble upon when you eat out? Sorry from the other identifiers that have come out in the news about the place, they use ones that demean their clients. In which case the words they used were meant as such.

There is no reason to identify someone like that, it can be insulting to people etc... I work in a service oriented business, and meet 2-10 people a day. I have never asked or talked about their religeous beliefs unless they open a dialogue about it. There is no point, there are people who do get insulted by such. Would you feel it is ok if they wrote "fat man" as an identifier? Whether you consider it racism, etc.. I do not care what label you want to place on their actions, but to me it is just wrong.

Gilda

It is offensive, and it is an epithet when used as a noun modifier. The word "Jew" is properly used only as a noun. The construction Jew [noun] is offensive because it substitutes the non-standard "Jew" for the standard modifier "Jewish", and because it has a long history of being use as an epithet.

When used as a noun to identify a person's ethnicity or religion, it is neutral. When used as a noun modifier in place of the proper "Jewish" it is offensive. When ethnic identifiers are used in a situation that does not call for it, that in itself is also offensive.

People aren't objecting to the word itself, only the way in which it was used.

Gilda

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Blackthorn

That comment in the story got me. How in the world could it have ended up on the credit card statement? Maybe it was on the slip that he signed vs. on what the credit card company sends him as his monthly bill. Anway...

People need thicker skin without a doubt. People also need to practice better judgement and this case clearly lacked a lot of on the part of Karina (the waitress). Sticks and stones really shouldn't be news but here we are talking about it.

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Strange Famous

If that happened to me, I suppose I might be a bit annoyed, but I wouldnt be running to the press and police about it. - especially if they apologised about it at the time I'd be cool with it. Being called a Jew is not an offensive statement if you are Jewish - it might not be that great a feeling to be designated as a person by your religion, but its hardly a criminal action.

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dlish

im not sure about the intricate details of the story, but i calling a spade a spade isnt such a bad thing.

sometimes you can tell that someone is of a certain race, religion from dress, complexion, bone structure etc, so i find it quite strange that someone would get offended if they got called something that they were. on the flip side if there was an obese woman and the bill said 'fat lady' im sure she'd get upset, although i dont see how its breaking any laws.

and since i know many jews are proud of their jewry, they ought to be proud to be recognised as such.

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robtak

FACT: The word WAS offensive TO the jewish guy/couple.
FACT: C.C. company did same. What-the-H___!
I agree with the one poster that the restaraunt owner should have anticipated an
incident likely to occur. I say, if there is to be any fault,then lay it down at his feet.
I call my friend "Jew-Boy" many times, but out of respect,
not in front of others, because it probably would make him as well as myself cringe.
Life is not fair, so my suggestion for stein is, to try and forget about this incidence,
put it in a box, get on with life.......laccept that life if not perfect.
E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y gets hit with some sort of insult sometime in their lifetime.
(some much more than others......"life- sucks-man!")
Well, that's my 2 cents. Hope this helps the rest of you out there in poster land.

Janey

which really muddies the waters when we have to deal with real racial concerns.

I think that all of this can be lumped under bigotry versus racism.

krwlz

I would say that it was poor form on the restaurants part... Becasue people getting up in arms (ridiculous as it is) is what always happens now a days in america. Do I take offense to being called that "irish kid", "the red head" simply "red" or any other referance to my background? Nope. Call me a dirty mic... and well, I'll probably just laugh at you.

Grow up guys. This is america. You are garaunteed many right. The right to have society walk on tip toes just so that you arn't offended ever though... is not one of them. Our society desperatly needs to learn this.

That said, Jew is way to broad to pin point a specific couple in a restaurant full of people. Practicality would say number work better.

shakran

While it was sheer stupidity on the restaurant's part to do it, considering our litigous society, let's be frank.

Are they jewish?

Are they a couple?

Then "Jew Couple" is a describer. It is not in and of itself insulting unless they are either ashamed of being a jew or ashamed of being a couple.

If the statement were more derogatory (fucking jew couple, cheap jew couple, kike couple, whatever) then I could see getting pissy about it. But I really don't understand why people get upset at being called what they are. I also don't understand why people automatically assume the worst of other's intentions. They read "jew couple" and automatically assumed that the waitress was anti semetic. That's absurd.

Suave

shakran: It is not just a describer. It is insulting because "Jew couple" is not the proper use of the term, and using "Jew" (noun) in place of "Jewish" (adjective) improperly signifies a derogatory comment.

In summary: "Jewish couple" is okay, "Jew couple" is not.

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shakran

But an argument can be made that the waitress shortened it in the interest of time - Ever seen what they scribble on their pads when you order? It's a helluva lot shorter than what you said.

Listen, I'm not saying the waitress was in the right here, but I'm saying that we automatically assume she has the worst motivation possible for doing what she did, and that perhaps that's a trend that isn't so good for us.

Xazy

Again no one has answered why that would show up on a credit card bill & statement!!

For someone to type that information into the credit card machine, for it to come up with that, labeling them like that... that is wrong.

shakran

Which makes me wonder even more. I mean, if I were in a job, and I wanted to keep it, I'd probably avoid permanently inscribing racial slurs on the credit card statements. Unless the waitress is a halfwit, why would she write something she knew to be a racial slur on the bill? The only logical conclusions are 1) she's mentally deficient, 2) she's quitting anyway and doesn't care if she gets fired or 3) she doesn't think identifying someone as a jew is a slur.

Xazy

Well to (1) that is possible. (2) again possible. (3) considering that they put "dirty Joanne" on someone else's bill & credit card statement, this does not hold water for me.

On a side point, they never confirmed it was a waiter / waitress.

Suave

I don't assume the worst, but it's pretty common knowledge that the use of "Jew" in a context like that is derogatory. I just think she should have been more careful about what she wrote down.

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krwlz

I guess I don't see where "Jew" is always used in a negetive way. How is that any differant from refering to the "Celts" or the "Brits" or... It is (or ought to be) just a shorthand way of saying jewish people.

I dont think there is inherently a negetive connotation on the word, until the person puts one there.

I'm sure I've read history text books that contained the word "Jew" are we suing them?

Well, it is america... we probably are.

Lastly, I think for the most part it can be agreed that the waitperson was in the wrong, and having that message show up on your credit card statement... Well, Yea, I'd say the waitperson added that negetive connotation. My point being, the fault is not in the word, its in the person.

Janie

I agree with Marvelous Marv that the couple, in the interests of manners, should have simply demanded an explanation and an apology. The girl was in the wrong, but I don't think she meant any offense by that term. If anything, she simply should keep such descriptions to herself and her close friends or others who are sure not to be offended. I for one did not know that "Jew couple" is a racial/religious slur. So obviously it isn't common knowledge to everyone. This is simply a case of poor judgement on the part of the waitress, couple, and media.

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Trisk

First of all, I do think the couple overreacted and I hardly think such an event needs to be brought to the news and attention of the public when the matter could have been settled by simply going to the manager.

However...and I'm trying to find some other word that relates to this...the term "Jew" is slightly offensive when used in this manner.
Perhaps it wasn't meant this way by the person who wrote it, and there is nothing to indicate that she meant it as anything but a way to describe the couple at the table. But for some reason, when people are speaking about Jewish people in a respectable, inoffensive manner, they tend to say "JewISH" or "A Jew". ...."He was a Jew"..."They were Jewish"...wheareas, when speaking about Jews in a more...vulgar manner, people skip the "A's" and "ISH's" and say "Jew Couple" "Jew Bastard" "Dirty Jew" etc etc. I don't know why this is the case....but I guess because of this use, the word "Jew" alone, coupled with another descriptive word has come to be percieved as offensive to a lot of Jewish people.
Not that the word itself is bad.
It just has to do with the way it's used.
Like...I guess you could relate it to how someone might describe black people. It's fine to say "So there were two black people sitting at the table" but if you heard a white person say "So there were two blacks sitting there...", wouldn't you cringe just a little bit? Doesn't it seem a bit worse?

*shrug*
I don't really know how to describe it, so maybe I'm not making any sense.

Either way, yeah, it's not all that bad. She didn't say anythig all that bad, and yeah, she may have just been bad at English or unaware that this was not the proper way to describe a Jewish person....but I would have been offended/annoyed if someone described me in that way. Not enough to make a huge deal. But perhaps enough to go someplace else next time I wanted dinner.

maskedrider

The sad fact is that in the USA non-white people are viewed based on a group identity. While whites have the privilege of INDIVIDUALITY. Don't believe me? Just turn on any TV and see how the acts of a few blacks are ascribed to the whole community.