08-20-2005, 12:50 PM | #41 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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I consider it another indication of good breeding for a person to overlook the occasional unintentional faux pas from someone else. As well as the intentional ones.
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher Last edited by Marvelous Marv; 08-20-2005 at 12:53 PM.. |
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08-20-2005, 11:08 PM | #42 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Seattle
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That said, I still see several reasons why this is insulting.
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"It's a long story," says I, and let him up. |
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08-22-2005, 12:52 PM | #43 (permalink) |
Tilted
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Ok i am gonna have to side with what seems to be the majority here, not a good idea but nothing to sue over.
Jew is not an insult plain and simple it is an identifier and one that (assuming he was in fact jewish) he should be proud to wear. Recognising differences is not racist, clearly it worked cause they got the right bill. I wish more people would just be proud of what they are instead of pretending there are no differences cause htye are affraid of offending someone, my best friend is jewish and ill be damned if I aint gonna call him "that jew over there" (dating the beutiful french girl at that) when its the best identifier. Its not racist or derragatory it is an identifier, and one that represents the persons beliefs when correctly used, one shouldnt feel the need ot be offended cause somone adknowledges your beliefs. This man should be counter sued for frivalous lawsuits and for being a grade A1 dick |
08-22-2005, 02:56 PM | #44 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-22-2005, 03:19 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Seattle, WA
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And as for it being difficult to indentify a Jewish person unless their wearing some sort of religious stuff...HAHAHAHA!! I'm sure we all know about the stereotypes of curly hair, big nose, etc... And I'm with the people calling "fake." There's NO WAY that would have showed up on the credit card bill. And painting Jew on someones shop window was not offensive, it was fucking scary, cause then you knew that you had been IDed by the authorities. Anything can be used as a epithet, but that doesn't mean every single usage of the word is one.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire |
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08-25-2005, 06:29 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
Devoted
Donor
Location: New England
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And continuing the trend...
Credit Card Offer Addressed To 'Palestinian Bomber' Quote:
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I can't read your signature. Sorry. |
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08-25-2005, 08:28 AM | #48 (permalink) |
Tilted
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Ok trying to respond to Cynthetiq here
There is a fundamentle difference between this incident and having jew spraypainted on your door. The point i was trying to get across is it is an identifier that was created to refer to members of a religion, it isnt offensive to use in polite conversation, its hardly being used here to repress or lynch a jew-ish couple. The examples you gave were crooked at best, they show the evils of the world and say that we should all feel our vocabularies restricted because a work can be used in a negative way. Nevermind that the word isnt negative its not like racial slurs that have no place in ocnversation and offend people automagically, rather it is an identifier and people should get a backbone, if its thier belief then they shouldnt feel bad to be identified by it. I hereby claim that the word fire is never to be used because it can precede the ending of a life. I also hereby decree that all guns are to be taken away cause they can be used to take a life never mind the whole "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" truism Last edited by fatmanforprez; 08-25-2005 at 08:28 AM.. Reason: you expect me to spell right? ba humbug |
08-25-2005, 10:09 AM | #49 (permalink) |
People in masks cannot be trusted
Location: NYC
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So why does this identifier, have to go on his credit card statement? Sorry I eat out normally 2-4 times a week, I happen to be Jewish. I have yet to in any resturaunt seen any identifier needed to state such on a bill EVER!
What sort of identifiers do you stumble upon when you eat out? Sorry from the other identifiers that have come out in the news about the place, they use ones that demean their clients. In which case the words they used were meant as such. There is no reason to identify someone like that, it can be insulting to people etc... I work in a service oriented business, and meet 2-10 people a day. I have never asked or talked about their religeous beliefs unless they open a dialogue about it. There is no point, there are people who do get insulted by such. Would you feel it is ok if they wrote "fat man" as an identifier? Whether you consider it racism, etc.. I do not care what label you want to place on their actions, but to me it is just wrong. |
08-25-2005, 09:23 PM | #50 (permalink) | |||
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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Gilda
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert |
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08-27-2005, 07:25 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
Beware the Mad Irish
Location: Wish I was on the N17...
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People need thicker skin without a doubt. People also need to practice better judgement and this case clearly lacked a lot of on the part of Karina (the waitress). Sticks and stones really shouldn't be news but here we are talking about it.
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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want? |
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08-27-2005, 11:38 AM | #52 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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If that happened to me, I suppose I might be a bit annoyed, but I wouldnt be running to the press and police about it. - especially if they apologised about it at the time I'd be cool with it. Being called a Jew is not an offensive statement if you are Jewish - it might not be that great a feeling to be designated as a person by your religion, but its hardly a criminal action.
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
08-27-2005, 06:40 PM | #53 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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im not sure about the intricate details of the story, but i calling a spade a spade isnt such a bad thing.
sometimes you can tell that someone is of a certain race, religion from dress, complexion, bone structure etc, so i find it quite strange that someone would get offended if they got called something that they were. on the flip side if there was an obese woman and the bill said 'fat lady' im sure she'd get upset, although i dont see how its breaking any laws. and since i know many jews are proud of their jewry, they ought to be proud to be recognised as such.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
08-27-2005, 08:17 PM | #54 (permalink) |
Upright
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FACT: The word WAS offensive TO the jewish guy/couple.
FACT: C.C. company did same. What-the-H___! I agree with the one poster that the restaraunt owner should have anticipated an incident likely to occur. I say, if there is to be any fault,then lay it down at his feet. I call my friend "Jew-Boy" many times, but out of respect, not in front of others, because it probably would make him as well as myself cringe. Life is not fair, so my suggestion for stein is, to try and forget about this incidence, put it in a box, get on with life.......laccept that life if not perfect. E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y gets hit with some sort of insult sometime in their lifetime. (some much more than others......"life- sucks-man!") Well, that's my 2 cents. Hope this helps the rest of you out there in poster land. |
08-29-2005, 08:20 AM | #55 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
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I think that all of this can be lumped under bigotry versus racism. |
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08-29-2005, 08:44 AM | #56 (permalink) |
Fledgling Dead Head
Location: Clarkson U.
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I would say that it was poor form on the restaurants part... Becasue people getting up in arms (ridiculous as it is) is what always happens now a days in america. Do I take offense to being called that "irish kid", "the red head" simply "red" or any other referance to my background? Nope. Call me a dirty mic... and well, I'll probably just laugh at you.
Grow up guys. This is america. You are garaunteed many right. The right to have society walk on tip toes just so that you arn't offended ever though... is not one of them. Our society desperatly needs to learn this. That said, Jew is way to broad to pin point a specific couple in a restaurant full of people. Practicality would say number work better. |
08-29-2005, 09:20 AM | #57 (permalink) |
Tone.
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While it was sheer stupidity on the restaurant's part to do it, considering our litigous society, let's be frank.
Are they jewish? Are they a couple? Then "Jew Couple" is a describer. It is not in and of itself insulting unless they are either ashamed of being a jew or ashamed of being a couple. If the statement were more derogatory (fucking jew couple, cheap jew couple, kike couple, whatever) then I could see getting pissy about it. But I really don't understand why people get upset at being called what they are. I also don't understand why people automatically assume the worst of other's intentions. They read "jew couple" and automatically assumed that the waitress was anti semetic. That's absurd. |
08-29-2005, 10:36 PM | #58 (permalink) |
Twitterpated
Location: My own little world (also Canada)
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shakran: It is not just a describer. It is insulting because "Jew couple" is not the proper use of the term, and using "Jew" (noun) in place of "Jewish" (adjective) improperly signifies a derogatory comment.
In summary: "Jewish couple" is okay, "Jew couple" is not.
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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato |
08-30-2005, 09:21 AM | #59 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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But an argument can be made that the waitress shortened it in the interest of time - Ever seen what they scribble on their pads when you order? It's a helluva lot shorter than what you said. Listen, I'm not saying the waitress was in the right here, but I'm saying that we automatically assume she has the worst motivation possible for doing what she did, and that perhaps that's a trend that isn't so good for us. |
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08-30-2005, 10:59 AM | #60 (permalink) |
People in masks cannot be trusted
Location: NYC
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Again no one has answered why that would show up on a credit card bill & statement!!
For someone to type that information into the credit card machine, for it to come up with that, labeling them like that... that is wrong. |
08-30-2005, 03:16 PM | #61 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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Which makes me wonder even more. I mean, if I were in a job, and I wanted to keep it, I'd probably avoid permanently inscribing racial slurs on the credit card statements. Unless the waitress is a halfwit, why would she write something she knew to be a racial slur on the bill? The only logical conclusions are 1) she's mentally deficient, 2) she's quitting anyway and doesn't care if she gets fired or 3) she doesn't think identifying someone as a jew is a slur. |
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08-30-2005, 04:07 PM | #62 (permalink) | |
People in masks cannot be trusted
Location: NYC
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On a side point, they never confirmed it was a waiter / waitress. |
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08-30-2005, 09:45 PM | #63 (permalink) | |
Twitterpated
Location: My own little world (also Canada)
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__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato |
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08-31-2005, 12:12 PM | #64 (permalink) |
Fledgling Dead Head
Location: Clarkson U.
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I guess I don't see where "Jew" is always used in a negetive way. How is that any differant from refering to the "Celts" or the "Brits" or... It is (or ought to be) just a shorthand way of saying jewish people.
I dont think there is inherently a negetive connotation on the word, until the person puts one there. I'm sure I've read history text books that contained the word "Jew" are we suing them? Well, it is america... we probably are. Lastly, I think for the most part it can be agreed that the waitperson was in the wrong, and having that message show up on your credit card statement... Well, Yea, I'd say the waitperson added that negetive connotation. My point being, the fault is not in the word, its in the person. |
08-31-2005, 08:56 PM | #65 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Greater Vancouver
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I agree with Marvelous Marv that the couple, in the interests of manners, should have simply demanded an explanation and an apology. The girl was in the wrong, but I don't think she meant any offense by that term. If anything, she simply should keep such descriptions to herself and her close friends or others who are sure not to be offended. I for one did not know that "Jew couple" is a racial/religious slur. So obviously it isn't common knowledge to everyone. This is simply a case of poor judgement on the part of the waitress, couple, and media.
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cheers to the motherland |
08-31-2005, 10:35 PM | #66 (permalink) |
Insane
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First of all, I do think the couple overreacted and I hardly think such an event needs to be brought to the news and attention of the public when the matter could have been settled by simply going to the manager.
However...and I'm trying to find some other word that relates to this...the term "Jew" is slightly offensive when used in this manner. Perhaps it wasn't meant this way by the person who wrote it, and there is nothing to indicate that she meant it as anything but a way to describe the couple at the table. But for some reason, when people are speaking about Jewish people in a respectable, inoffensive manner, they tend to say "JewISH" or "A Jew". ...."He was a Jew"..."They were Jewish"...wheareas, when speaking about Jews in a more...vulgar manner, people skip the "A's" and "ISH's" and say "Jew Couple" "Jew Bastard" "Dirty Jew" etc etc. I don't know why this is the case....but I guess because of this use, the word "Jew" alone, coupled with another descriptive word has come to be percieved as offensive to a lot of Jewish people. Not that the word itself is bad. It just has to do with the way it's used. Like...I guess you could relate it to how someone might describe black people. It's fine to say "So there were two black people sitting at the table" but if you heard a white person say "So there were two blacks sitting there...", wouldn't you cringe just a little bit? Doesn't it seem a bit worse? *shrug* I don't really know how to describe it, so maybe I'm not making any sense. Either way, yeah, it's not all that bad. She didn't say anythig all that bad, and yeah, she may have just been bad at English or unaware that this was not the proper way to describe a Jewish person....but I would have been offended/annoyed if someone described me in that way. Not enough to make a huge deal. But perhaps enough to go someplace else next time I wanted dinner. |
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bitch, couple, dog, jew |
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