Do you have it in you to forgive? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 08-17-2005, 08:24 AM

I agree it won't bring your brother back, as I have thought about this more and more, I'm thinking that I could forgive the individual for the action, but the penance would have to be something to remind the individual.

I'm thinking that Mal's situation makes for a good setup. If I'm reminded of it everyday to ask that someone remember it once a month, a dollar to a charity or victim, something.

But I'm forgetting that even being incarcerated for a few months has it's perils, rape, beatings, plain just scared because a good kid surrounded by bad kids... they may leave their own scars.

martinguerre · 08-17-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

But I'm forgetting that even being incarcerated for a few months has it's perils, rape, beatings, plain just scared because a good kid surrounded by bad kids... they may leave their own scars.

all of which can strongly contribute to recidivism. taking a chance on this kid may mean one less career criminal.

RogueHunter65 · 08-17-2005, 05:18 PM

I think it would depend. I would look at the kids grades and priors. If the kid was a straight A kid who is going off to a college and a good kid, yeah I would cut him some slack. But, if it was some young punk, Id tell him have a nice time in prison.

I couldn't ruin someones life if they are going on the right path. But, if it looks like a hopeless case, oh well, one less thug on the streets.

Seeker · 08-19-2005, 06:56 PM

Wow... what this woman did... and who this woman is! You know, she is the type of person that I aspire to be. It would seem that she has expressed the sometimes unthinkable state of selflessness. She is not caught up in how this can affect her on a physical level and she has not judged or condemned the foolish act of this young kid. It happened and she has dealt with it.

Whether this young fellow keeps this in mind or not is irrelevant... the point here is that this woman is strong enough in her character to be able to live with the effects and live strongly in her beliefs. Nothing we can ever do or say will change or modify another... I'm sure we can all admit that it is only through our own experiences that we make changes, and then only if we wish to do so.

I for one would love to be able to accept life to the extent that this woman does.

meembo · 08-22-2005, 07:03 AM

Forgiveness is much more of a gift to one's self than to another. Without forgiving someone of something, you have to carry that emotional baggage with you until the day you finally deal with it. I also think forgiving yourself for something can be the hardest perosn to forgive.

viejo gringo · 08-22-2005, 07:39 PM

Col. George Patton said it best...
"It's Gods job to forgive, mine is to see that they meet a lot sooner."

I might forgive, but I never forget either.

texxasco · 09-08-2005, 08:10 PM

No, I don't think I could forgive him. It was a foolish stunt at best, or a vicious attack on an innocent person - depending on how you look it. I don't think the little sentence get got through a plea bargain will give him enough time to reflect on his actions and the consequences of them. He was 18 at the time, so basically he has had 18 years to learn to be a productive, contributing member of society. If he hasn't gotten that down in 18 years, he surely isn't gonna learn to be a good boy again in a mere few months in lockup. Another factor to consider is the effects hsi actions have had, and will continue to have on his victim. Shes had numerous surgeries, career and life basically put on hold because of that 18 year old kid did to her. And, she has years of physical thereapy ahead of her, with no guarantee she will ever be back to "normal" again....

He needs to set in prison and reflect for a few years minimum. I feel better about the local crack and meth dealer than I do this kid. A lot of the convicts I deal with are there for trying to provide for their family by selling drugs, and then getting caught.

Fire · 09-08-2005, 10:00 PM

I have a permanent scar, and metal in my arm forever from one person's idiocy- and its nothing compared to what that woman went through- despite this, I cannot even forgive the person who caused my scar, {though the fact that she drove away and did not stop for the accident is a factor} much less if someone did that to me- so no, I could not forgive someone that did something like that.....

Suave · 09-08-2005, 11:43 PM

Can't say if I would or wouldn't. I can forgive almost anything, especially if it's out of ignorance or stupidity rather than malevolence. However, having one's face smashed... that victim is quite amazing I must say.

zVp · 09-09-2005, 02:48 PM

I'm known for being the "nice-guy-of-the-bunch" and I usually don't stay mad, or get mad, at any friends, even if they play cruel pranks on me. But this. Wow. I don't think I'd able to forgive someone like that. This goes beyond me. That's a touching story.

Ustwo · 09-09-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

There was an incident a few years back (probably even longer) where a teenage boy got into a car and drove drunk and ended up killing a teenage girl. The parents of the girl, basically pleaded with the court that sending this boy to jail for x number of years wouldn't change the situation and would probably just make this kid worse off. So the agreement that was reached so this boy could get on with his life, but never forget what he did, he would have to write a check to the parents, every month, for one dollar. A minimal amount but the fact that he had to do it every month, and would end up in jail on a contempt charge if he didnt, and he wouldn't forget what he did...

I wouldn't mind seeing that sortof punishment enacted for this person as well, so he won't forget waht he did and how he changed (not necessarily ruined) another person's live forever.;

I'd like to see his face smashed in every time he looks in the mirror. I have no sympathy for the dumbass.

la petite moi · 09-09-2005, 07:38 PM

Nope, sorry. I couldn't forgive a hoodlum like that. Although I don't think he should get 25 years in prison, I would hate his guts for nearly killing me. I would hope he would have to do back-breaking community service for years to come.

Pip · 09-10-2005, 05:46 AM

I honestly don't know. I've forgiven people who have done seemingly nasty stuff to me, yet some seemingly minor wrongs will NEVER be forgiven! It depends so very much on the circumstances.

Vincentt · 09-10-2005, 06:14 AM

One day I might forgive the guy.

But I would have been pushing for the 25year sentince.

bobillydylan · 09-10-2005, 06:21 AM

Different situations have different levels of forgiveness.In my life i have always forgiven for any wrong doing, but i have to say not to this level. I hope that i could forgive in such a situation. Its hard to say untill something as serious as this happens. This lady has the highest level of forgiveness i have come across.

Mr Honest · 09-10-2005, 08:03 AM

No I wouldn't forgive, I realise that might sound terrible. But I've lived and what stopped me throwing bricks onto the cars below where I lived on the UK motorway (like a freeway only faster).
What stopped me raping, what stopped me stabbing my childhood bully?
ME! I DID. I have empathy and knew that I might kill someone throwing a brick onto a car going at 70 + mph.
Yes, fear of punishment was part of it, fear of letting my family down but even if I knew I could get away with a horrible crime I never did them.
It's all too easy to do something truly bad and then go 'boo hoo' please forgive me.
Sorry is easy to say. Sorry does not make amends, sorry doesn't cut it. It's not enough.

I think 25 years is too long for this crime but 6 months is not enough. A stupid prank might be throwing a water bomb at a person. Letting off a stinkbomb.
A criminally dangerous stupid action is the above.

krwlz · 09-10-2005, 10:35 PM

By 18 one would seriously hope you have learned enough responsibility to not throw a bird into oncomming traffic... Then again, I know some seriously fucked up 18 year olds as well.

The kid deserves punishment, but I don't think prison would be beneficial to anyone involved. Forced service at minimum wage working somewhere until he paid back every bit of damage he caused personally, would be my ideal punishment for the kid.

If he's anything like the few 18 year olds that I know that have the misunderstanding that shit like this doesnt hurt people, then maybe he would learn some small measure of responsibility. Better than becomming a hardened criminal for sure.

As for the poll, I voted no. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior out of anyone for any reason, wether you are sorry or not.

Stompy · 09-14-2005, 04:17 PM

Depends if I had it coming to me or not.

She was a collections agency manager. Those people are the epitome of evil. I think this might be what we call "karma".

Honestly, haha I felt bad for her until I read she was a collections agency manager.

Damn, I'm mean

Ah well... but to answer the question: depends if the person is truly remorseful for what they did.

If someone does something royally fucked up to me and thinks they can get away with it, then no, I don't forgive. In fact, I take the extra step to get revenge. Might sound mean, but hey, it works.

Some people have done screwed up things to me that they should've been remorseful for. They weren't, but when they saw what I could do back, they kinda realized they could've taken the easier route. Lesson learned for them.

ninety09 · 09-14-2005, 05:45 PM

There's no way I would even consider forgiving the guy. I have trouble understanding why anyone would want to forgive such an idiot. He should pay for what he did.

5757 · 09-14-2005, 10:19 PM

I would definitly forgive him if I was the person injured. However, if the person injured were a relative or spouse or child.. that would different. I would still forgive, but I would push for the max sentence because if he were set free I might throw a bird into his face.
Thats actually not a bad idea.

Iliftrocks · 09-19-2005, 05:57 PM

I'd find it easier to forgive something done to me, than my family members. If I lived, I'd consider it just another thing. I have found it hard to forgive people who wrong my wife or child though.

I guess it's a shortcoming....

feelgood · 09-19-2005, 08:27 PM

If somebody did that to me, he'll be in a world of pain...

View Poll Results: Could you forgive someone who did this to you?
yes	29	30.85%
no	33	35.11%
I don't know	32	34.04%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

08-17-2005, 08:24 AM	#41 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I agree it won't bring your brother back, as I have thought about this more and more, I'm thinking that I could forgive the individual for the action, but the penance would have to be something to remind the individual. I'm thinking that Mal's situation makes for a good setup. If I'm reminded of it everyday to ask that someone remember it once a month, a dollar to a charity or victim, something. But I'm forgetting that even being incarcerated for a few months has it's perils, rape, beatings, plain just scared because a good kid surrounded by bad kids... they may leave their own scars. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-17-2005, 05:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
RogueHunter65 Insane Location: Boston, MA	I think it would depend. I would look at the kids grades and priors. If the kid was a straight A kid who is going off to a college and a good kid, yeah I would cut him some slack. But, if it was some young punk, Id tell him have a nice time in prison. I couldn't ruin someones life if they are going on the right path. But, if it looks like a hopeless case, oh well, one less thug on the streets. __________________ I suffer from amnesia and deja vu at the same time... I think I have forgotten this before

08-19-2005, 06:56 PM	#44 (permalink)
Seeker Getting Clearer Location: with spirit	Wow... what this woman did... and who this woman is! You know, she is the type of person that I aspire to be. It would seem that she has expressed the sometimes unthinkable state of selflessness. She is not caught up in how this can affect her on a physical level and she has not judged or condemned the foolish act of this young kid. It happened and she has dealt with it. Whether this young fellow keeps this in mind or not is irrelevant... the point here is that this woman is strong enough in her character to be able to live with the effects and live strongly in her beliefs. Nothing we can ever do or say will change or modify another... I'm sure we can all admit that it is only through our own experiences that we make changes, and then only if we wish to do so. I for one would love to be able to accept life to the extent that this woman does. __________________ *To those who wander but who are not lost...* ~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

08-22-2005, 07:03 AM	#45 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	Forgiveness is much more of a gift to one's self than to another. Without forgiving someone of something, you have to carry that emotional baggage with you until the day you finally deal with it. I also think forgiving yourself for something can be the hardest perosn to forgive. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

08-22-2005, 07:39 PM	#46 (permalink)
viejo gringo Registered User Location: Deep South Texas	Col. George Patton said it best... "It's Gods job to forgive, mine is to see that they meet a lot sooner." I might forgive, but I never forget either.

09-08-2005, 08:10 PM	#47 (permalink)
texxasco Insane Location: Somewhere in East Texas	No, I don't think I could forgive him. It was a foolish stunt at best, or a vicious attack on an innocent person - depending on how you look it. I don't think the little sentence get got through a plea bargain will give him enough time to reflect on his actions and the consequences of them. He was 18 at the time, so basically he has had 18 years to learn to be a productive, contributing member of society. If he hasn't gotten that down in 18 years, he surely isn't gonna learn to be a good boy again in a mere few months in lockup. Another factor to consider is the effects hsi actions have had, and will continue to have on his victim. Shes had numerous surgeries, career and life basically put on hold because of that 18 year old kid did to her. And, she has years of physical thereapy ahead of her, with no guarantee she will ever be back to "normal" again.... He needs to set in prison and reflect for a few years minimum. I feel better about the local crack and meth dealer than I do this kid. A lot of the convicts I deal with are there for trying to provide for their family by selling drugs, and then getting caught. __________________ ...A Bad Day of Fishing is Better Than a Great Day at Work!

09-08-2005, 10:00 PM	#48 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I have a permanent scar, and metal in my arm forever from one person's idiocy- and its nothing compared to what that woman went through- despite this, I cannot even forgive the person who caused my scar, {though the fact that she drove away and did not stop for the accident is a factor} much less if someone did that to me- so no, I could not forgive someone that did something like that..... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

09-08-2005, 11:43 PM	#49 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Can't say if I would or wouldn't. I can forgive almost anything, especially if it's out of ignorance or stupidity rather than malevolence. However, having one's face smashed... that victim is quite amazing I must say. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

09-09-2005, 02:48 PM	#50 (permalink)
zVp Tilted Location: Woodbridge, Ontario	I'm known for being the "nice-guy-of-the-bunch" and I usually don't stay mad, or get mad, at any friends, even if they play cruel pranks on me. But this. Wow. I don't think I'd able to forgive someone like that. This goes beyond me. That's a touching story.

09-09-2005, 07:38 PM	#52 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	Nope, sorry. I couldn't forgive a hoodlum like that. Although I don't think he should get 25 years in prison, I would hate his guts for nearly killing me. I would hope he would have to do back-breaking community service for years to come.

09-10-2005, 05:46 AM	#53 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	I honestly don't know. I've forgiven people who have done seemingly nasty stuff to me, yet some seemingly minor wrongs will NEVER be forgiven! It depends so very much on the circumstances.

09-10-2005, 06:14 AM	#54 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	One day I might forgive the guy. But I would have been pushing for the 25year sentince. __________________ .

09-10-2005, 06:21 AM	#55 (permalink)
bobillydylan Tilted Location: uk	Different situations have different levels of forgiveness.In my life i have always forgiven for any wrong doing, but i have to say not to this level. I hope that i could forgive in such a situation. Its hard to say untill something as serious as this happens. This lady has the highest level of forgiveness i have come across. __________________ Yes and only if my own true love was waiting, And i could hear her heart a softly pounding, Yes and only if she was lying by me! Then i would lie in my bed once again.

09-10-2005, 08:03 AM	#56 (permalink)
Mr Honest Crazy	No I wouldn't forgive, I realise that might sound terrible. But I've lived and what stopped me throwing bricks onto the cars below where I lived on the UK motorway (like a freeway only faster). What stopped me raping, what stopped me stabbing my childhood bully? ME! I DID. I have empathy and knew that I might kill someone throwing a brick onto a car going at 70 + mph. Yes, fear of punishment was part of it, fear of letting my family down but even if I knew I could get away with a horrible crime I never did them. It's all too easy to do something truly bad and then go 'boo hoo' please forgive me. Sorry is easy to say. Sorry does not make amends, sorry doesn't cut it. It's not enough. I think 25 years is too long for this crime but 6 months is not enough. A stupid prank might be throwing a water bomb at a person. Letting off a stinkbomb. A criminally dangerous stupid action is the above. __________________ Human beings : who could ever claim to like them all?

09-19-2005, 08:27 PM	#62 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	If somebody did that to me, he'll be in a world of pain... __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

09-10-2005, 10:35 PM	#57 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	By 18 one would seriously hope you have learned enough responsibility to not throw a bird into oncomming traffic... Then again, I know some seriously fucked up 18 year olds as well. The kid deserves punishment, but I don't think prison would be beneficial to anyone involved. Forced service at minimum wage working somewhere until he paid back every bit of damage he caused personally, would be my ideal punishment for the kid. If he's anything like the few 18 year olds that I know that have the misunderstanding that shit like this doesnt hurt people, then maybe he would learn some small measure of responsibility. Better than becomming a hardened criminal for sure. As for the poll, I voted no. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior out of anyone for any reason, wether you are sorry or not.

09-14-2005, 04:17 PM	#58 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Depends if I had it coming to me or not. She was a collections agency manager. Those people are the epitome of evil. I think this might be what we call "karma". Honestly, haha I felt bad for her until I read she was a collections agency manager. Damn, I'm mean Ah well... but to answer the question: depends if the person is truly remorseful for what they did. If someone does something royally fucked up to me and thinks they can get away with it, then no, I don't forgive. In fact, I take the extra step to get revenge. Might sound mean, but hey, it works. Some people have done screwed up things to me that they should've been remorseful for. They weren't, but when they saw what I could do back, they kinda realized they could've taken the easier route. Lesson learned for them. __________________ I love lamp.

09-14-2005, 05:45 PM	#59 (permalink)
ninety09 Flavour of the Weak Location: Canada	There's no way I would even consider forgiving the guy. I have trouble understanding why anyone would want to forgive such an idiot. He should pay for what he did.

09-14-2005, 10:19 PM	#60 (permalink)
5757 Insane Location: Vegas!!	... I would definitly forgive him if I was the person injured. However, if the person injured were a relative or spouse or child.. that would different. I would still forgive, but I would push for the max sentence because if he were set free I might throw a bird into his face. Thats actually not a bad idea. __________________ Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana

09-19-2005, 05:57 PM	#61 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	I'd find it easier to forgive something done to me, than my family members. If I lived, I'd consider it just another thing. I have found it hard to forgive people who wrong my wife or child though. I guess it's a shortcoming.... __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."