"Freedom Ship" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mystmarimatt · 08-12-2005, 10:19 AM

The Freedom Ship

So, a friend mentioned hearing about this on the news a few weeks ago, and I just now got around to inquiring about it.

I'd post information more than just a link, I know that's kosher, but in this case, there's too much to post and it's all really engrossing.

Essentially, the concept is to build this gigantic floating city, somewhere in the vicity of 4 times as large as the biggest cruise ships, and make it an actual bit of real estate, albeit a moving one. (It gets a bit pricey, too. The largest living area will be 5100 Sq. feet and cost about $9,000,000 dollars. Even timeshares on the ship cost about $60,000.) It will have a bunch of nifty amenities, will circle the globe once every three years, and have a full school system, K-12, as well as college education.

The website is a bit vague about how far along construction is, if it has even begun, but they state that it should be launched by 2005.

I initially looked through the website laughing at what a wasteful, unsound, and ultimately phallically compensatory venture it was, and while I still think of it as being pretty superfluous, I am rather intrigued by the whole thing.

Thoughts?

Glory's Sun · 08-12-2005, 10:24 AM

I saw something on National Geographic about this a while back. It seems like a lofty idea and I just don't know how many people would really sign up for it. I know I wouldn't. Sure I don't like people but if I wanted to really connect I'd want to be on land. Plus what happens if some dude goes all psycho and starts killin people? Are they going to have a jail on it?

maleficent · 08-12-2005, 10:26 AM

except for the part that there would be kids on board -- and it's cost prohibitive (spend that kind of money I want kid free) it's be cool... I wonder what portion of it wouldbe Section 8 housing?

There are a lot of cruise ships that have people who will stay on board for more than a year... personally that'd get a little tiresome to me... but to each their own - I suppose it's a nice way to spend retirement.

Vincentt · 08-12-2005, 10:26 AM

I dunno, it could be really cool.

The laws of it could be interesting too.

I would worry about weather and other things... if a typhoon hit it, what would happen?

I'd like to keep an eye on it.

I've always thought: "Can I just build a really big boat, and create my own country?"

maleficent · 08-12-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincentt

I've always thought: "Can I just build a really big boat, and create my own country?"

Not sure if you could build a boat - but some guy a while back, in the north atlantic I think, bought an old oil platform and made it his own country... (I'll google it when i am out of my next meeting) it is actually a pretty cool concept - though i'd want to be somewhere warmer..

08-12-2005, 10:30 AM

It's a fantastic idea - I just finished reading Neil Stephenson's 'Snow Crash' and think that a real life floating city would be an incredible feat of engineering. If it could be made safe and economically viable, it could be the beginning of a huge shift in how our populations organise themselves.

To those who wonder what would happen when a typhoon comes, I guess they'd do the same things that people in the Carribean and Florida do when a hurruicane comes.

And crazy psychos, prisons etc - yes of course, you're going to have to provide the same things that any small town is going to need - people's basic requirements aren't going to change just because they're on open water.

Charlatan · 08-12-2005, 10:32 AM

Wasn't there another ship that was doing this already? I think it was called "The World" or something like that... I remember seeing a sales brochure for it.

I think it would be very cool to work on the ship or own a store on the ship...

maleficent · 08-12-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Plus what happens if some dude goes all psycho and starts killin people? Are they going to have a jail on it?

arghhh Pirate justice... you'd be on the seven seas (well at least one of them) they'd have to walk the plank, matey..

mystmarimatt · 08-12-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

arghhh Pirate justice... you'd be on the seven seas (well at least one of them) they'd have to walk the plank, matey..

And damn, that could be one hell of a tall jump off the plank.

Maybe everybody on board gets a complimentary cutlass, eye patch, and saucy wench.

: Does Jaunty Pirate Jig:

feelgood · 08-12-2005, 10:58 AM

The thing looks like 2 aircraft carrier stacked on the top of each other that's designed to house prisoners.

canuckguy · 08-12-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

The thing looks like 2 aircraft carrier stacked on the top of each other that's designed to house prisoners.

hey you might be on to something there, would be a great way to house all the convicts now, a big ship (think floating tin can) filled with all the worst criminals anchored out in the atlantic. and if it sunk...well we can always build again.

I've seen this ship before, they had a special on the discovery channel, crazy idea, not sure it would be a place I would like to live. Same sorta idea as the mega cities I've seen on discovery channel, huge 2 mile high towers holding entire cities. I could see japan doing something like this to expand land mass, but wow that would take alot of materials to build. Plus i get sea sick

Ustwo · 08-12-2005, 11:43 AM

Sounds like a really cool pipe dream.

A big target too.

NoSoup · 08-12-2005, 12:13 PM

I just recently saw an update on this story - apparently, they are pretty much set for construction, once they get the funding. All the engineering details have been supposedly worked out.

The price tag, however, is supposed to be lower than expected, as they are going to design it much differently than conventional ships - it will be built more like the floating airport off the coast of japan. An unfortunate side affect is that it will be much slower than they had originally hoped, with the ability to circle the globe once every seven or so years.

The thing is MASSIVE, though... "height of 4,500 feet, a width of 750 feet, and a height of 350 feet"

It'll be interesting to see if this ever turns out, but I think that it may be just a pipe dream...

maleficent · 08-12-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSoup

IThe thing is MASSIVE, though... "height of 4,500 feet, a width of 750 feet, and a height of 350 feet"

Ok so i admit I'm pretty much geographically challenged... but what route would they take to get it to go around the world, that it would fit everywhere... and the ferry's that they plan on running to shore... wouldn't they have to be pretty far out to sea so it wouldn't run aground?

Schwan · 08-12-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Ok so i admit I'm pretty much geographically challenged... but what route would they take to get it to go around the world, that it would fit everywhere... and the ferry's that they plan on running to shore... wouldn't they have to be pretty far out to sea so it wouldn't run aground?

Plenty of ocean to go around. I don't think there's a place that would stop that thing, though it would have to go around South America and Africa (I don't think they'd be willing to choose the colder northern route, and you can forget the Panama and Suez canals, too). I wonder how are they planning to protect against icebergs? It's not like that ship will be very mano...mnu..m... easy to turn, is it?

Still, a neat idea.

maleficent · 08-12-2005, 02:14 PM

They had the route it takes on the site:

that's kind of a cool trip

The FAQ page is interesting -

Quote:

. Misperception: The primary focus of the project is to build a big ship.

Facts: The primary focus of the project is to create a community that offers unique life-style opportunities. Freedom Ship would be the world's first mobile community. It would provide an international, cosmopolitan, full-spectrum, residential, commercial, and resort city that circles the globe once every three years. It would offer a wide array of novel opportunities for business ownership, travel, and daily living. The ship is as large as it is, simply because that is the minimum size required to make the community economically self-sustaining and a desirable and attractive place to live.

It would be really interesting to see how they would plan on powering this thing... electricity for the boat itself, plus engines to get it to move... Water powered? How would they refuel it/

I'd still like to see it...

feelgood · 08-12-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

It would be really interesting to see how they would plan on powering this thing... electricity for the boat itself, plus engines to get it to move... Water powered? How would they refuel it/

I'd still like to see it...

Doesn't most American nuclear warship require refueling every few years or so? I would suspect that the same concept could be applied for Freedom.

MSD · 08-14-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

Doesn't most American nuclear warship require refueling every few years or so? I would suspect that the same concept could be applied for Freedom.

I suspect that a lot of people would be uneasy living in a floating skyscraper on top of a nuclear reactor.

feelgood · 08-14-2005, 06:11 PM

Just to give everybody an idea of how big this thing is.

Use the aircraft as size references

VitaminH · 08-14-2005, 06:17 PM

Can anyone say Titanic?

Other things aside, what's to stop some group of people to essentially pirate this ship? Is there going to be decent, well armed and trained security forces on board? Seems like a pretty good target for someone to board and pillage since they will be in international waters, plus there will likely be mostly wealthy people on board.

StuckinRow · 08-14-2005, 07:25 PM

Hehe, I laugh at this concept. It seems like an interesting concept but really, whats to say this boat will get a lot of business. I guess there are a lot of wierdos out there, but I prefer staying on... non-manmade land myself. I am sure the creators are really just looking to make money but isnt there much more beneficial ways to spend money?

Gilda · 08-14-2005, 08:27 PM

Hee hee.

I looked up a residential suite the size of our condo, and the purchase price is roughly 2.2 million dollars. The monthly maintenence fee, on top of the purchase price itself, is twice our mortgage, and twenty times our monthly maintenence fee.

A 450 foot unit is 200 grand plus. The economy unit, with no kitchen, is $153,000. For 300 sq feet. If I wanted to pay that much for an apartment, I'd move to downtown San Francisco or Tokyo.

It seems neat, but I can't think of an income level at which I would want to live on that thing. For the price of any suite, there's a much larger and cheaper land-based home available.

But it sure looks cool in a Discovery Channel Extreme Engineering way.

Gilda

Schwan · 08-15-2005, 01:49 AM

There's a lot of rich people that would probably be willing to invest in this. It's not something for the average or above average Joe. A ship like that would certainly need a significant security force, but I wouldn't worry abut pirates that much. Most of the time, pirate attacks are nothing more than a few locals with guns on motor boats. I'd imagine that a ship this size would also have a military escort when going through dangerous waters, like the african coast and Indonesia.

Redlemon · 08-15-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Hee hee.

I looked up a residential suite the size of our condo, and the purchase price is roughly 2.2 million dollars. The monthly maintenence fee, on top of the purchase price itself, is twice our mortgage, and twenty times our monthly maintenence fee.

A 450 foot unit is 200 grand plus. The economy unit, with no kitchen, is $153,000. For 300 sq feet. If I wanted to pay that much for an apartment, I'd move to downtown San Francisco or Tokyo.

It seems neat, but I can't think of an income level at which I would want to live on that thing. For the price of any suite, there's a much larger and cheaper land-based home available.

But it sure looks cool in a Discovery Channel Extreme Engineering way.

Gilda

What if you instead compare it to high-end vacation resort pricing? I don't have that information, but it seems more like that.

Charlatan · 08-15-2005, 06:14 AM

Also, you need to factor in the fact that you will likely be living tax-free.

JustJess · 08-15-2005, 06:38 AM

I would totally do it... if I could afford it. Who wouldn't want to travel around the whole world?? All the places we'd go, the things we'd see... I would love it. The pluses of travel (new places and experiences) without the negatives of always living out of a suitcase, no stability, etc. Sounds like fun!

NoSoup · 08-15-2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

It would be really interesting to see how they would plan on powering this thing... electricity for the boat itself, plus engines to get it to move... Water powered? How would they refuel it

If I remember correctly, they will have 100 Propellers (each the size of the one from the Titianic) scattered all across the bottom of the ship in regular increments. They will be able to rotate a full 360 degrees, allowing the ship to move any direction from a standstill. I think it will be fuel powered, although they were looking at other options as well - such as solorpowered. They wanted to use hydroelectric power to help reduce fuel costs, but with the ridiculously slow speed, it wasn't economically viable.

mystmarimatt · 08-15-2005, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Also, you need to factor in the fact that you will likely be living tax-free.

Actually, that depends. There will be no taxes on board the ship, however, the website says US residents will still have to pay income tax. If the person isn't from the US, then I'm probably not aware of their tax laws.

Charlatan · 08-15-2005, 08:44 AM

Interesting, I was assuming that the people on board would become residents of this new "nation". Will the ship be registered under a flag of convenience?

feelgood · 08-15-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Interesting, I was assuming that the people on board would become residents of this new "nation". Will the ship be registered under a flag of convenience?

Well, it seems that the ship will abide by the laws of whatever water its in. However, with International Water...

Charlatan · 08-15-2005, 09:29 AM

I was just thinking that if the ship was registered in the Grand Caymens, wouldn't the tax free status extend to the ship?

I suppose US Citizens would have to give up their citizenship in order to be completely taxfree and I can't imagine there are all that many people who are willing to take this step.

FatFreeGoodness · 08-15-2005, 11:37 AM

This is a pipe dream, and not even a particularly plausible one.
It was posted that they say that it will launch sometime in 2005… however,, construction has not begun. There are not even plans sufficient to show general layout (for instance, what does one of those condo-sized cabins look like? What is the layout of the waterline deck?)
There is no way that a 4,500 foot long ship can be designed, much less completed or the 20,000 person crew hired to make launch occur in even the next few years. Particularly as they indicate they do not even yet have funding, nor know where the funding will come from.

Suave · 08-15-2005, 12:18 PM

I'd rather build my own island. There was one guy who filled fishing net with an enormous amount of plastic jugs, then covered it with sand and drifted about for a few months. That could be enjoyable.

aurigus · 08-16-2005, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Since the design of the ship is not complete, the details of these units may change, but FSI is committed to providing the same as above or a unit as close as possible to that described above.

Read: Ship is not designed.

Quote:

If you are interested in living aboard Freedom Ship, please let us know by sending questions to the email address below:

futurefreedomshipresident@comcast.net

Read: Official Email address resides at comcast.

Quote:

Our biggest delay to-date has been the hundreds of "scam" operations that have come to us claiming to be "big time" investors and they want to provide the initial investment for Freedom Ship.

Read: They have no money. If anyone really thought this ship would make money they wouldn't have a problem finding financing.

Anyway, these things and more throw up a big red flag that this is just a pipe dream. Of course it's a great idea and everyone WANTS to believe in it, which makes it seem like it can be done

feelgood · 08-18-2005, 01:05 PM

Copy and paste, apparently hotlinking aint allowed

http://content.leenks.com/pics/random15/bigboat19gu.jpg
http://content.leenks.com/pics/random15/bigboat24uw.jpg

vautrain · 08-18-2005, 01:34 PM

The web site looks hokey, like they spent maybe $500 on it. Also, some things seem very unprofessional...

Quote:

Those of you who "do not get it" may feel free to move on to the next web site. For those of you who are still with us, I am sure we do not need to explain to you what this lifestyle will be like - you already know!

Does it not seem like some narcissistic whack-job wrote that?

In addition, they publish a Comcast email address to receive email inquiries. Their corporate office is a PO box. The admin contact on the "freedomship.com" domain traces back to a flaky looking search engine optimization company in Kansas.

08-12-2005, 10:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
mystmarimatt Omnipotent Ruler Of The Tiny Universe In My Mind Location: Oreegawn	"Freedom Ship" The Freedom Ship So, a friend mentioned hearing about this on the news a few weeks ago, and I just now got around to inquiring about it. I'd post information more than just a link, I know that's kosher, but in this case, there's too much to post and it's all really engrossing. Essentially, the concept is to build this gigantic floating city, somewhere in the vicity of 4 times as large as the biggest cruise ships, and make it an actual bit of real estate, albeit a moving one. (It gets a bit pricey, too. The largest living area will be 5100 Sq. feet and cost about $9,000,000 dollars. Even timeshares on the ship cost about $60,000.) It will have a bunch of nifty amenities, will circle the globe once every three years, and have a full school system, K-12, as well as college education. The website is a bit vague about how far along construction is, if it has even begun, but they state that it should be launched by 2005. I initially looked through the website laughing at what a wasteful, unsound, and ultimately phallically compensatory venture it was, and while I still think of it as being pretty superfluous, I am rather intrigued by the whole thing. Thoughts? __________________ Words of Wisdom: If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane. Last edited by mystmarimatt; 08-12-2005 at 10:31 AM..

08-12-2005, 10:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	except for the part that there would be kids on board -- and it's cost prohibitive (spend that kind of money I want kid free) it's be cool... I wonder what portion of it wouldbe Section 8 housing? There are a lot of cruise ships that have people who will stay on board for more than a year... personally that'd get a little tiresome to me... but to each their own - I suppose it's a nice way to spend retirement. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-12-2005, 10:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	I dunno, it could be really cool. The laws of it could be interesting too. I would worry about weather and other things... if a typhoon hit it, what would happen? I'd like to keep an eye on it. I've always thought: "Can I just build a really big boat, and create my own country?" __________________ .

08-12-2005, 10:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Wasn't there another ship that was doing this already? I think it was called "The World" or something like that... I remember seeing a sales brochure for it. I think it would be very cool to work on the ship or own a store on the ship... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-12-2005, 10:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	The thing looks like 2 aircraft carrier stacked on the top of each other that's designed to house prisoners. __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

08-12-2005, 10:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I saw something on National Geographic about this a while back. It seems like a lofty idea and I just don't know how many people would really sign up for it. I know I wouldn't. Sure I don't like people but if I wanted to really connect I'd want to be on land. Plus what happens if some dude goes all psycho and starts killin people? Are they going to have a jail on it?

08-12-2005, 10:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	It's a fantastic idea - I just finished reading Neil Stephenson's 'Snow Crash' and think that a real life floating city would be an incredible feat of engineering. If it could be made safe and economically viable, it could be the beginning of a huge shift in how our populations organise themselves. To those who wonder what would happen when a typhoon comes, I guess they'd do the same things that people in the Carribean and Florida do when a hurruicane comes. And crazy psychos, prisons etc - yes of course, you're going to have to provide the same things that any small town is going to need - people's basic requirements aren't going to change just because they're on open water.

08-12-2005, 11:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Sounds like a really cool pipe dream. A big target too. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

08-12-2005, 12:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	I just recently saw an update on this story - apparently, they are pretty much set for construction, once they get the funding. All the engineering details have been supposedly worked out. The price tag, however, is supposed to be lower than expected, as they are going to design it much differently than conventional ships - it will be built more like the floating airport off the coast of japan. An unfortunate side affect is that it will be much slower than they had originally hoped, with the ability to circle the globe once every seven or so years. The thing is MASSIVE, though... "height of 4,500 feet, a width of 750 feet, and a height of 350 feet" It'll be interesting to see if this ever turns out, but I think that it may be just a pipe dream... __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering... Last edited by NoSoup; 08-12-2005 at 12:16 PM..

08-14-2005, 06:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Just to give everybody an idea of how big this thing is. Use the aircraft as size references __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

08-14-2005, 06:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
VitaminH An embarrassment to myself and those around me... Location: Pants	Can anyone say Titanic? Other things aside, what's to stop some group of people to essentially pirate this ship? Is there going to be decent, well armed and trained security forces on board? Seems like a pretty good target for someone to board and pillage since they will be in international waters, plus there will likely be mostly wealthy people on board. __________________ "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte

08-14-2005, 07:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
StuckinRow Upright	Hehe, I laugh at this concept. It seems like an interesting concept but really, whats to say this boat will get a lot of business. I guess there are a lot of wierdos out there, but I prefer staying on... non-manmade land myself. I am sure the creators are really just looking to make money but isnt there much more beneficial ways to spend money?

08-14-2005, 08:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Hee hee. I looked up a residential suite the size of our condo, and the purchase price is roughly 2.2 million dollars. The monthly maintenence fee, on top of the purchase price itself, is twice our mortgage, and twenty times our monthly maintenence fee. A 450 foot unit is 200 grand plus. The economy unit, with no kitchen, is $153,000. For 300 sq feet. If I wanted to pay that much for an apartment, I'd move to downtown San Francisco or Tokyo. It seems neat, but I can't think of an income level at which I would want to live on that thing. For the price of any suite, there's a much larger and cheaper land-based home available. But it sure looks cool in a Discovery Channel Extreme Engineering way. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

08-15-2005, 01:49 AM	#23 (permalink)
Schwan A boy and his dog Location: EU!	There's a lot of rich people that would probably be willing to invest in this. It's not something for the average or above average Joe. A ship like that would certainly need a significant security force, but I wouldn't worry abut pirates that much. Most of the time, pirate attacks are nothing more than a few locals with guns on motor boats. I'd imagine that a ship this size would also have a military escort when going through dangerous waters, like the african coast and Indonesia.

08-15-2005, 06:14 AM	#25 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Also, you need to factor in the fact that you will likely be living tax-free. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-15-2005, 06:38 AM	#26 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	I would totally do it... if I could afford it. Who wouldn't want to travel around the whole world?? All the places we'd go, the things we'd see... I would love it. The pluses of travel (new places and experiences) without the negatives of always living out of a suitcase, no stability, etc. Sounds like fun! __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

08-15-2005, 08:44 AM	#29 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Interesting, I was assuming that the people on board would become residents of this new "nation". Will the ship be registered under a flag of convenience? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-15-2005, 09:29 AM	#31 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I was just thinking that if the ship was registered in the Grand Caymens, wouldn't the tax free status extend to the ship? I suppose US Citizens would have to give up their citizenship in order to be completely taxfree and I can't imagine there are all that many people who are willing to take this step. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-15-2005, 11:37 AM	#32 (permalink)
FatFreeGoodness Tilted	This is a pipe dream, and not even a particularly plausible one. It was posted that they say that it will launch sometime in 2005… however,, construction has not begun. There are not even plans sufficient to show general layout (for instance, what does one of those condo-sized cabins look like? What is the layout of the waterline deck?) There is no way that a 4,500 foot long ship can be designed, much less completed or the 20,000 person crew hired to make launch occur in even the next few years. Particularly as they indicate they do not even yet have funding, nor know where the funding will come from.

08-15-2005, 12:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	I'd rather build my own island. There was one guy who filled fishing net with an enormous amount of plastic jugs, then covered it with sand and drifted about for a few months. That could be enjoyable. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

08-18-2005, 01:05 PM	#35 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Copy and paste, apparently hotlinking aint allowed http://content.leenks.com/pics/random15/bigboat19gu.jpg http://content.leenks.com/pics/random15/bigboat24uw.jpg __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war Last edited by feelgood; 08-18-2005 at 02:21 PM..