Plane in flames after skidding off runway - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Church · 08-02-2005, 01:13 PM

Just heard about this. I hope everyone's ok but I really don't think so since I heard on the news that the plane just exploded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNN.com

Canadian reports: Jet was carrying about 200 passengers

Tuesday, August 2, 2005; Posted: 5:06 p.m. EDT (21:06 GMT)

TORONTO, Canada (AP) -- A passenger jetliner caught fire Tuesday after skidding off a runway in the rain at Pearson airport in Toronto.

There was no word on casualties. Canadian television reported that the plane was carrying about 200 passengers.

Police told news agencies the Air France passenger jet was trying to land. There were thunderstorms reported in the area at the time.

Police Sgt. Glyn Griffiths said it was not known if any passengers had been taken from the plane.

Black smoke billowed from the wreckage as the aircraft burned.

A row of emergency vehicles lined up behind the wreckage, and a fire truck sprayed the flames with water.

The flaming wreckage was next to the four-lane Highway 401, Canada's busiest highway, and some cars and trucks stopped on the roadway after the crash.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Charlatan · 08-02-2005, 01:17 PM

It happened during a harsh thunderstorm... My first thought is that it was a lightening strike rather than a bomb.

Most other flights were grounded at the time because of the weather.

It stopped just off the highway, so traffic in the area is at a standstill with all the rubberneckers...

maleficent · 08-02-2005, 01:18 PM

yikes - but because it happened on landing, I'm inclined to believe it's weather related... however... it's still not a good thing...

Quote:

Plane burns after skidding off runway in Toronto
August 2, 2005, 5:07 PM EDT

TORONTO -- A passenger jetliner erupted in flames Tuesday after skidding off a runway while landing in a fierce thunderstorm at Toronto's Pearson International Airport. Black smoke billowed into the air as the wreck burned.

Police said the plane was an Air France A340 from Paris that was trying to land when it ran into trouble. There was a storm -- with lightning and strong wind gusts -- in the area at the time.

A row of emergency vehicles lined up behind the wreck, and a fire truck sprayed the flames with water. The operation was broadcast live on television in Canada and the United States.

The flaming ruin was next to the four-lane Highway 401, Canada's busiest highway, and some cars and trucks stopped on the roadway after the crash.

There was no immediate word on casualties.

"They made an approach in weather that was worse than what they anticipated," John Wiley, a retired Airbus pilot, told CNN.

Leah Walker, a radio reporter in Toronto, said she saw a third of the plane fall and that the rest became a fireball. "This plane attempted to land in some very fierce weather we had today," she said.

Thunderstorms create the possibility of wind shear, the sudden, dangerous air currents that can dash an airplane to the ground as it takes off or lands.

The last major jumbo jet crash in North America was on Nov. 12, 2001, when American Airlines Flight 587 lost part of its tail and plummeted into a New York City neighborhood, killing 265 people.

Safety investigators concluded that the crash was caused by the pilot moving the rudder too aggressively.

JumpinJesus · 08-02-2005, 01:23 PM

The latest reports I've seen on MSNBC state there are probably survivors.

Church · 08-02-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

The latest reports I've seen on MSNBC state there are probably survivors.

Thats good to hear. Hopefully we get more good news. I'm pretty much convinced its just a freak accident. There's nothing to suggest terrorist activity here, althrough I wouldn't be surprised if some radical group tries to take credit for it.

maleficent · 08-02-2005, 02:22 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americ...ash/index.html

Quote:

TORONTO, Canada (CNN) -- An Air France passenger jet attempting to land at Toronto's Pearson International Airport overran a runway Tuesday, bursting into flames and sending smoke billowing into the sky.

The Airbus 340, attempting to land in a driving rainstorm, crashed into a tree-lined gully, but all passengers and crew were able to escape the flames.

"There are no known fatalities" among the 297 people and 12 crew members who were on board, an airport spokesman said.

About 14 people suffered minor injuries, said Steve Shaw, chairman of the Greater Toronto Airports Authority.

Air France Flight 358 had been scheduled to arrive from Paris' Charles de Gaulle International Airport at 3:35 p.m. ET.

Severe thunderstorms had occurred in the area just before the crash, which occurred about 4 p.m.

"We had absolutely no insight or hint that the landing would be difficult," passenger Olivier Dubos told CNN. "We just knew that it would be a bit hard because of the weather."

Passenger Roel Bramar told CBC-TV that he was in the last seat of the full flight when it landed and failed to stop before the runway ended. "There was some real roller-coasting going on," as the plane drove into the ravine, he said.

"This plane came off the runway. It slid off the runway and into this gully," said Toronto radio reporter Leah Walker, who witnessed the crash. "It's come off with probably a great amount of force into trees and the creek."

She said a fireball engulfed the plane.

Another witness, Corey Marx, said, "Everything looked good, sounded good. It hit the runway nice, then all of a sudden we heard the engines backing up."

Marx said he initially didn't think anything was wrong. But then, "The guy I was with piped up, 'You know, he's getting pretty close to the end.' Immediately afterward, right off he went."

The plane fell into a valley at the end of the runway and cracked in half, Marx said.

Vito Porto, a freelance photographer, told Global television that an explosion occurred after the crash, throwing debris for several hundred feet.

Smoke billowed from the site, as scores of emergency workers sought to put out the fire with foam.

Hat's off to the crew of the plane for landing the plane, and double hats off to the emergency crew at Pearson for getting the flames out so quickly that there were no fatalities.

rmarshall · 08-02-2005, 02:45 PM

No fatalities. 309 passenger and crew got off before flames engulfed the plane. 14 injuries.

On a related note, traffic was light on 401 eastbound from Islington. Got here in record time!

streak_56 · 08-02-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmarshall

No fatalities. 309 passenger and crew got off before flames engulfed the plane. 14 injuries.

On a related note, traffic was light on 401 eastbound from Islington. Got here in record time!

"light" on the 401 is rush hour in most cities.

It's good to hear that no one has died, only 14 injuried is even more astounding. Would that be contributed to the pilot or just dumb luck?

maleficent · 08-02-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmarshall

No fatalities. 309 passenger and crew got off before flames engulfed the plane. !

I've been on one plane that made a very emergeny landing - It's amazing at the speed and calmness in which the flight crew can get that many passengers off a plane... In moments like this, its when you realize that the flight attendents are more than just flying waitresses... they actually do serve a purpose.

Grasshopper Green · 08-02-2005, 04:03 PM

I'm glad to hear there were no fatalities....

Am I the only one who didn't have terrorism cross their mind about this? It never entered my brain until I read this thread...I automatically assumed that it was weather related.

maleficent · 08-02-2005, 04:08 PM

i never really considered terrorism for this - -it was going to Canada - Canada doesnt piss people off- that's our job...

skier · 08-02-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

The latest reports I've seen on MSNBC state there are probably survivors.

anyone else find this sort of statement from a news station overly dramatic?

It not only implies that there are fatalities, but as well implies that there is a chance everyone died in the crash.

Charlatan · 08-02-2005, 04:45 PM

A friend in Florida said that CNN was playing up the idea that survivors were flagging down cars on the 401 for rides to the hospital... did anyone else hear this?

Grasshopper Green · 08-02-2005, 04:50 PM

I read they were flagging down cars, but for rides to the airport....although I don't know why unless they have a triage center or something there for minor injuries...

I guess they could have been meeting family or friends.

Elphaba · 08-02-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

i never really considered terrorism for this - -it was going to Canada - Canada doesnt piss people off- that's our job...

Thank you Forum Mother. That was my first chuckle of the day.

BigBen · 08-03-2005, 07:09 AM

Had a really dorky guy in a bow tie (no offence to bow-tie wearers on the TFP) on the news last night almost gauranteeing that it was "Wind Shear" from the thunderstorm activity.

"Dude, how would you know?" I asked my television.

"There was a similar accident 20 years ago at the same location, and the fault was wind shear. Notice that the pilot ran out of runway, indicating that the cause was wind-speed related."

Now, without googling it, I found out that wind shear was a column of cold air blowing straight down to the ground. the front of this column caused high head-wind speeds, then the plane hits the down blast. If it makes it through that, the back of the column makes a high tail-wind speed, and that is how the plane has problems at the end of the runway.

To think that there was no fatalities blows my mind. Very good actions taken by everyone involved.

hossified · 08-03-2005, 07:14 AM

the plane landed, and basically ran out of runway......there were approx 40 injuries too, not 14.....and no fatalities. Hats off to the emerg. crew, as that plane on on fire as soon as it left the runway, and hit the trees......while everyone was still aboard. Big excitement for the t-dot thats for sure.....we don't see stuff like this everyday!!!

ironman · 08-03-2005, 08:49 AM

I personally find it amazing and thank God that all passengers and crew make it unharmed, I think it tells a lot about the Airbus planes as well. I was hearing in CNN this is the first accident in which an Airbus C340 has been involved, and nobody died, that's an impressive record.

Minx · 08-03-2005, 12:52 PM

To update....

Quote:

Black boxes recovered from crash

Jen Horsey
Canadian Press

August 3, 2005

TORONTO -- The black boxes from the Air France passenger jet that overshot a runway at Toronto's Pearson International Airport before crashing and bursting into flames have been recovered, an airport official said Wednesday.

The boxes -- the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder -- will be used to piece together details of what happened before the plane skidded into a wooded ravine on Tuesday afternoon, said Steve Shaw, spokesman for the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, which manages Canada's busiest airport.

"I can confirm that the black boxes have been recovered," Shaw told a news conference.

The black boxes were to be sent to Ottawa and any communication between the pilots and the control tower or other recorded information was to be downloaded at a lab in Ottawa.

Federal Transportation Minister John Lapierre refused to speculate on what caused Air France Flight 358 to crash. But he cited the view of some experts who believe a contributing factor was severe weather that included driving rain, hail and thunder and lightning.

"There will be a number of factors associated with the occurrence," he said.

"Extreme weather conditions are one factor they will be considering in their investigation," Lapierre said of the investigation by the Transportation Safety Board.

The general manager of Air France in Canada refused to take questions at the media briefing, but said airline staff is "fully engaged" in helping passengers who need assistance.

"Air France wants to express our solidarity to passengers and their immediate families," said Christian Lahceen.

LaPierre said his "heart just sank" when he first heard of the crash while flying to Iqaluit, Nunavut because the first report he heard suggested more than 200 passengers had died.

During refuelling, he heard the truth -- that all 309 passengers and crew had survived, with only 43 people sustaining minor injuries.

"I felt a sense or relief," said Lapierre, "because I was so afraid that we would have such a bad accident."

Lapierre cited statistics that showed the number of accidents in the Canadian air sector was down over last year.

Earlier, officials said the evacuation of passengers took less than two minutes, with a co-pilot the last to leave the flaming wreckage.

One fire official said it was a "textbook case" of how to deal with an airliner emergency.

Three-quarters of the passengers and crew escaped the wreckage in the 52 seconds it took for emergency crews to arrive, said airport fire Chief Mike Figliola.

"The evacuation was a minute and a half to two minutes maximum," Figiola told a news conference.

"The crew did a great job, they're trained to get the people off. This is what they're trained to do and they did it perfect. It was a textbook case of getting the plane evacuated."

The Airbus A-340's engines had just started to burn when Figiola arrived on the scene less than a minute after the crash.

"I just saw lots of fire," he said. "It was a big fuel load, luggage, combustibles . . . I was probably 50 yards away from the aircraft. My face was burning; it was very intense."

The A-340, never before involved in a crash in 13 years of commercial service, descended from a blackened, lightning-streaked sky Tuesday before skidding down a rain-slicked runway and toppling into a wooded ravine, its engines erupting in flames.

To ease traffic delays on nearby Highway 401, Canada's busiest highway, police were urging commuters to resist gawking at the broken body of the aircraft, which remained slumped in a wooded area just metres from the highway, coated in fire-retardant foam, a wingtip jutting above the trees.

Don Enns, a senior investigator with the federal Transportation Safety Board, said the probe into the cause of the crash had begun.

Lingering hot spots were extinguished by early afternoon, he said.

Canada will take the lead on the investigation, Enns said. Air France officials were on their way to Toronto and expected to arrive later Wednesday afternoon.

Police said they did not consider the probe of the crash a criminal investigation.

"We're treating this event as an accident at the moment," said Peel Region police Sgt. Craig Platt. "There's certainly nothing at this time to indicate anything but that."

Aviation experts have said extreme weather conditions at the time of the landing -- high, unpredictable winds, driving rains and lightning -- likely played a key role in the crash.

Brian Lackey, vice-president of operations for the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, which manages the airport, said staff were struck by the severity of the storm as they watched it unfold through the windows.

"As we were looking out the window we were commenting that storm was extremely severe and we hadn't seen one like that," he said.

Asked to comment on reports from passengers that the pilot was forced to circle the airport after aborting an initial attempt to land, Lackey said that was still under examination.

"We haven't reviewed the tapes from the tower yet," he said. "Normally if there are thunderstorms in the area, a pilot may decide to circle until it's safe to land."

It's just great news that there were no deaths involved in an accident this huge. There were reports on the news this morning that the pilot was circling the airport due to a "red alert" warning because of the weather. They (at the last report I heard) weren't sure if the entire thing was caused by pilot error or not.

Kudos to the airline attendents that keep their heads together enough to evacuate that many people in under two minutes! Holy crap.

maleficent · 08-03-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minx

Kudos to the airline attendents that keep their heads together enough to evacuate that many people in under two minutes! Holy crap.

That's why they are on board the plane -and that is what they are trained to do...- not just to pass out pretzels... I've been on a plane that got evacuated and it's impressive... some of them seem so ncie and sweet but in certain situations - they'd be great marine corp drill instructors...

maleficent · 08-05-2005, 01:06 PM

Investigators: Canada crash plane landed 'long'

Quote:

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Investigators said Friday that the Air France jet that crashed earlier this week appeared to have landed too far down the runway, which may have contributed to it skidding off its path and into a ravine before bursting into flames.

They were quick to add that it was too soon to determine whether the long landing on the 9,000-foot (2,700-meter) runway, combined with torrential rains and gusting winds, was to blame for the crash on Tuesday, which all 309 people on board survived.

"We do have some information that the aircraft did land long," Real Levasseur, chief investigator for Canada's Transportation Safety Board, told a news briefing.

"We are still in the process of gathering all that data to find out what that means."

When pressed on whether landing long would have contributed to the crash, Levasseur said: "An aircraft like the 340 should land well toward the back; how long exactly depends on weight, heavy winds, there are a number of factors," he said.

"We will certainly be looking at information; and if it turns out the aircraft did land further down the runway ... we will try to determine whether this had a major or critical effect."

Witnesses and some passengers have said that it appeared that Air France Flight 358 from Paris was coming in too fast and too long when it landed at about 4 p.m. ET in thunderstorms.

"There are quite a few witnesses who say they observed the aircraft halfway down the runway, longer than normal and longer than usual for this type of aircraft," Levasseur said.

He said there was no evidence, meanwhile, that lightning struck the Airbus A340 as it was landing, as reported by some witnesses. "The wings and wing tips are in pretty good shape."

He also said investigators have determined that all four engine thrust-reversers were in operation and working, "so that's a good sign."

An Air France spokesman in Paris declined to comment, saying the carrier would wait for the result of a full investigation before publicly discussing the possible cause of the crash.

The captain of the Air France jet, meanwhile, remained hospitalized with back injuries on Friday and would not be questioned until his physical state improves, officials said.

The co-pilot of Air France Flight 358, which crashed at Canada's busiest airport, was questioned Thursday as investigators tried to piece together why the plane skidded off the runway and burst into flames after running into a ravine. Investigators said details of the co-pilot queries were "privileged" information and would not be made public at this time.

Levasseur said the flight attendants -- widely praised for having gotten the passengers off the burning aircraft within two minutes -- had also been questioned and were eager to return to Paris and rejoin their families.

Air France has said the co-pilot was at the controls when the Airbus 340 skidded off runway 24L at Toronto's Lester B. Pearson International Airport. Air France said the co-pilot had 10,700 hours of flying time, and the 57-year-old pilot had 15,000 hours.

Levasseur said the air crew did not declare an emergency to air traffic controllers as the Airbus A340 approached the runway at 160 mph (257 kph) in heavy rains and lightning. It then skidded some 220 yards (200 meters) off the east-west runway at 95 mph (153 kph), he said.

He said Thursday that preliminary evidence suggested there was nothing wrong with the aircraft, but that still needed to be confirmed.

"The initial landing appeared very normal," he said. "There was no emergency declared on the part of the air crew."

The flight data and voice recorders -- the so-called "black boxes" -- were recovered Wednesday and send to TSB headquarters in Quebec. But Canada does not have the proper equipment to download the data, so it would take several days to get the equipment from France.

The black boxes may indicate whether the passenger jet experienced brake failure and hydraulic pressure problems during its landing.

The wreckage of the jetliner remained off the side of Highway 401, where many of the passengers had wandered after escaping the wreckage.

The airport was under a "red alert," which indicates potential for lightning and forces ground staff to remain indoors, but does not prevent planes from landing or taking off. Levasseur said the decision to land during a "red alert" would be investigated.

He emphasized that wind shear likely was not a factor in the crash -- as has been speculated -- because that usually would only affect aircraft in flight. He also doubted lightning played a role.

Pilots association's concerns
Levasseur on Thursday dismissed questions about whether the runway was long and safe enough, saying it met international standards.

The Air Line Pilots Association however, disputed this, saying the ravine at the end of the runway may have contributed to the crash.

"The crash of Air France Flight 358 in Toronto occurred at an international airport that, unfortunately, does not meet international standards," said a statement by the union, which represents 64,000 airline pilots at 41 airlines in Canada and the United States.

"It is the latest in a series of airline accidents that highlight the dangers of inadequate runway safety areas," said the statement.

It noted that in 1978, two passengers were killed and more than 100 injured on board an Air Canada DC-9 that overran the runway and smashed into the same gully.

I love all the speculation that goes on... I'm not sure why this gets reported, when clearly they dont know anything yet...

Cuatela · 08-05-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

i never really considered terrorism for this - -it was going to Canada - Canada doesnt piss people off- that's our job...

I know a few conservatives that are upset about some recent laws, but none of them are (mentally or physically) capable of causing this.

james t kirk · 08-06-2005, 11:34 AM

Recent news looks like the plane landed half way down the runway rather than in the "piano keys" at the end of the runway.

They simply ran out of runway.

Traffic Westbound on the 401 was still stop and go as of friday with all the rubberneckers.

Sweetpea · 08-06-2005, 01:44 PM

I think it's amazing that all of the passengers survived!

Sweetpea

08-02-2005, 01:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It happened during a harsh thunderstorm... My first thought is that it was a lightening strike rather than a bomb. Most other flights were grounded at the time because of the weather. It stopped just off the highway, so traffic in the area is at a standstill with all the rubberneckers... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-02-2005, 01:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	The latest reports I've seen on MSNBC state there are probably survivors. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

08-02-2005, 04:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I'm glad to hear there were no fatalities.... Am I the only one who didn't have terrorism cross their mind about this? It never entered my brain until I read this thread...I automatically assumed that it was weather related. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

08-02-2005, 04:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	i never really considered terrorism for this - -it was going to Canada - Canada doesnt piss people off- that's our job... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-02-2005, 04:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	A friend in Florida said that CNN was playing up the idea that survivors were flagging down cars on the 401 for rides to the hospital... did anyone else hear this? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-02-2005, 02:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
rmarshall Addict Location: Kingston,Ontario	No fatalities. 309 passenger and crew got off before flames engulfed the plane. 14 injuries. On a related note, traffic was light on 401 eastbound from Islington. Got here in record time!

08-02-2005, 04:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I read they were flagging down cars, but for rides to the airport....although I don't know why unless they have a triage center or something there for minor injuries... I guess they could have been meeting family or friends. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

08-03-2005, 07:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Had a really dorky guy in a bow tie (no offence to bow-tie wearers on the TFP) on the news last night almost gauranteeing that it was "Wind Shear" from the thunderstorm activity. "Dude, how would you know?" I asked my television. "There was a similar accident 20 years ago at the same location, and the fault was wind shear. Notice that the pilot ran out of runway, indicating that the cause was wind-speed related." Now, without googling it, I found out that wind shear was a column of cold air blowing straight down to the ground. the front of this column caused high head-wind speeds, then the plane hits the down blast. If it makes it through that, the back of the column makes a high tail-wind speed, and that is how the plane has problems at the end of the runway. To think that there was no fatalities blows my mind. Very good actions taken by everyone involved. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

08-03-2005, 07:14 AM	#17 (permalink)
hossified face f$cker Location: canada	the plane landed, and basically ran out of runway......there were approx 40 injuries too, not 14.....and no fatalities. Hats off to the emerg. crew, as that plane on on fire as soon as it left the runway, and hit the trees......while everyone was still aboard. Big excitement for the t-dot thats for sure.....we don't see stuff like this everyday!!!

08-03-2005, 08:49 AM	#18 (permalink)
ironman Smithers, release the hounds Location: Guatemala, Guatemala	I personally find it amazing and thank God that all passengers and crew make it unharmed, I think it tells a lot about the Airbus planes as well. I was hearing in CNN this is the first accident in which an Airbus C340 has been involved, and nobody died, that's an impressive record. __________________ If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

08-06-2005, 11:34 AM	#23 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Recent news looks like the plane landed half way down the runway rather than in the "piano keys" at the end of the runway. They simply ran out of runway. Traffic Westbound on the 401 was still stop and go as of friday with all the rubberneckers.

08-06-2005, 01:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	I think it's amazing that all of the passengers survived! Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"