Water found on Mars - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Astrocloud · 07-29-2005, 10:25 AM

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Exp...KA808BE_0.html

Quote:

Water ice in crater at Martian north pole

Perspective view of crater with water ice - looking east

28 July 2005

These images, taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) on board ESA’s Mars Express spacecraft, show a patch of water ice sitting on the floor of an unnamed crater near the Martian north pole.

Map showing crater in context Click on Map for larger image and explanation

The HRSC obtained these images during orbit 1343 with a ground resolution of approximately 15 metres per pixel. The unnamed impact crater is located on Vastitas Borealis, a broad plain that covers much of Mars's far northern latitudes, at approximately 70.5° North and 103° East.
The crater is 35 kilometres wide and has a maximum depth of approximately 2 kilometres beneath the crater rim. The circular patch of bright material located at the centre of the crater is residual water ice.

This white patch is present all year round, as the temperature and pressure are not high enough to allow sublimation of water ice.

It cannot be frozen carbon dioxide since carbon dioxide ice had already disappeared from the north polar cap at the time the image was taken (late summer in the Martian northern hemisphere).

There is a height difference of 200 metres between the crater floor and the surface of this bright material, which cannot be attributed solely to water ice.

It is probably mostly due to a large dune field lying beneath this ice layer. Indeed, some of these dunes are exposed at the easternmost edge of the ice.

Faint traces of water ice are also visible along the rim of the crater and on the crater walls. The absence of ice along the north-west rim and walls may occur because this area receives more sunlight due to the Sun’s orientation, as highlighted in the perspective view.

3D anaglyph view of crater with water ice

The colour images were processed using the HRSC nadir (vertical view) and three colour channels. The perspective views were calculated from the digital terrain model derived from the stereo channels.

The 3D anaglyph images were created from the nadir channel and one of the stereo channels. Stereoscopic glasses are needed to view the 3D images Image resolution has been decreased for use on the internet.

For more information on Mars Express HRSC images, you might like to read our updated 'Frequently Asked Questions'.

Many of you are probably wondering why this is a big deal... This is the first time water was discovered on another planet. It does not mean that life existed on Mars -however -it means that our sort of life may have existed at one point on Mars.

Astrocloud · 07-29-2005, 10:29 AM

For a big ass color picture of the crater click here:

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/...-CraterIce.jpg

Kubz18 · 07-29-2005, 10:29 AM

very interesting...

Coppertop · 07-29-2005, 11:12 AM

This is pretty cool if it is for real.

mystmarimatt · 07-29-2005, 11:14 AM

First Step: Find Water

Second Step: Invade Mars

Third Step: Enjoy a Mint Mocha Frappucchino from the first Martian Starbucks, coming your way in 2010, baby!

guthmund · 07-29-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystmarimatt

Third Step: Enjoy a Mint Mocha Frappucchino from the first Martian Starbucks, coming your way in 2010, baby!

Not if NASA has anything to do with it.

Exciting stuff.

In that big ass picture it kind of looks like it's glowing....

ObieX · 07-29-2005, 11:36 AM

Every time i go to nasa or the ESA's page it always makes me wish i had a pair of 3D glasses

Gatorade Frost · 07-29-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrocloud

For a big ass color picture of the crater click here:

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/...-CraterIce.jpg

Holy shit! Bigass doesn't even begin to describe it. Think 6000x4800 px.

Cool picture. Just don't even think about it unless you're on broadband.

AquaFox · 07-29-2005, 01:35 PM

very awsome!!

i was totally expecting this picture when i opend the thread:

crazybobmarley · 07-29-2005, 02:09 PM

That was so funny I pissed in your pants

kramus · 07-29-2005, 03:08 PM

That is a good thing that they found open ice. It makes the creation of permanent scientific communities viable. To quote maleficent - "Yay!"

maleficent · 07-29-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramus

That is a good thing that they found open ice. It makes the creation of permanent scientific communities viable. To quote maleficent - "Yay!"

double yay even... if there's ice -- I'm there -- if there's a starbucks== I'm totally there...

Gilda · 07-29-2005, 03:55 PM

Bah, forget Starbucks, when does ski season start?

That is seriously cool stuff.

kramus · 07-29-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Bah, forget Starbucks, when does ski season start?

That is seriously cool stuff.

That would be one seriously cool piece of ice. See the whorls around the dunes at the top? Imagine 1/3 gravity and a pair of metal skis, with maybe a paraglider pack just in case.

I've never gone skiing in my life and I think that sounds great!

hunnychile · 07-29-2005, 04:44 PM

So has Haliburton already written the iron-clad contract no one can bid upon, to drill for oil next

analog · 07-29-2005, 08:12 PM

Water on Mars is an amazing find. I'm just glad we have the ability to find out stuff like this. Very, very cool.

JumpinJesus · 07-29-2005, 08:58 PM

You're all wrong. When the first manned mission lands on Mars, they'll discover Starbucks has been there for the past 5 years.

Either way, this is an amazing find.

Cuatela · 07-30-2005, 08:20 AM

My question is, have they sampled it and made sure from tests that it really is water? Just because it's not dry ice doesn't mean it has to be (water) ice.

genuinegirly · 07-30-2005, 08:45 AM

Aquafox - you're hilarious. I haven't had a mars bar for years.

I don't know if I entirely believe that this is a patch of water. I mean, they've been searching for water on mars for the past 2 decades at least... only now they're finding it? Has our space photography technology really advanced that significantly? Makes me wonder what kind of half-hearted searches they did in the past. It has been at least a decade since they determined several valleys and canyons on Mars were carved by ancient lakes, rivers, oceans, etc. Why did it take them so long to find this random patch of remaining ice? Anyone know when they're going to stop speculating and start digging up Mars for fossils?

Astrocloud · 07-30-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

I don't know if I entirely believe that this is a patch of water. I mean, they've been searching for water on mars for the past 2 decades at least... only now they're finding it? Has our space photography technology really advanced that significantly?

The answer is YES. These are high resolution photos taken by a new spacecraft.

For people who want a bigger photo but not the Big Ass one posted before. Here is another link to a photo that is large but not 'big ass'.

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/...raterIce_H.jpg

Charlatan · 07-30-2005, 10:02 AM

Life On Mars
David Bowie

It's a god-awful small affair
To the girl with the mousy hair
But her mummy is yelling "No"
And her daddy has told her to go
But her friend is nowhere to be seen
Now she walks through her sunken dream
To the seat with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
For she's lived it ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on

Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the Lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?

It's on Amerikas tortured brow
That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Now the workers have struck for fame
'Cause Lennon's on sale again
See the mice in their million hordes
From Ibeza to the Norfolk Broads
Rule Britannia is out of bounds
To my mother, my dog, and clowns
But the film is a saddening bore
'Cause I wrote it ten times or more
It's about to be writ again
As I ask you to focus on

Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the Lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?

MageB420666 · 07-30-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

I don't know if I entirely believe that this is a patch of water. I mean, they've been searching for water on mars for the past 2 decades at least... only now they're finding it? Makes me wonder what kind of half-hearted searches they did in the past. Why did it take them so long to find this random patch of remaining ice?

As astrocloud said, yes, photographic technology has advanced a lot. Just think back to what was available five years ago vs. today.

As for lazy searching, a planet is a BIG place and it's really hard to examine one closely from millions of miles away. And from 1976-1997 there were no satellite probes sent, all observation was from earth. Currently, there are only three orbiters around mars right now, just imagine how many pictures they would have to take to cover the entire surface of mars at close resolution, and then how many people it would take to examine each of those photos (not to mention transmission time).

genuinegirly · 07-30-2005, 01:43 PM

Mage & Astrocloud, thanks for setting me straight. With only three orbiters, I understand why it would take so long to photograph the entire red planet.

silvertiger · 07-30-2005, 04:19 PM

This is hugely exciting... I think we've found our next landing site. The upper layers of that substabce (which I believe is water, because if they can tell what's in an atmosphere from the colors ona picture, they can tell this isw water) could provide a huge wealth of knowledge about mars' atmosphereic history, chemical content, and also provide a location for manned exploration as water is Vital in all aspects.

deri · 08-02-2005, 07:28 AM

So how long does it take to go from a discovery like this to landing a probe in that crater to perform more tests? I'm guessing the paperwork/budgit approval process would be the logest, and then there is all the mission planning and technology that needs to go into such a mission.

frogza · 08-02-2005, 07:55 AM

Now if they can find water near the equator then we'll be in business. The poles are simply too cold to set up a permenant settlement, the equator is the closest thing to livable with an average temp of 0 degrees celsius.

streak_56 · 08-02-2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubz18

very interesting...

I concur....

07-29-2005, 10:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kubz18 Crazy Location: Austin....Austin, Massachusetts	very interesting... __________________ "I have no idea whats going on"

07-29-2005, 11:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
mystmarimatt Omnipotent Ruler Of The Tiny Universe In My Mind Location: Oreegawn	First Step: Find Water Second Step: Invade Mars Third Step: Enjoy a Mint Mocha Frappucchino from the first Martian Starbucks, coming your way in 2010, baby! __________________ Words of Wisdom: If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

07-29-2005, 11:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Every time i go to nasa or the ESA's page it always makes me wish i had a pair of 3D glasses __________________ We Must Dissent.

07-29-2005, 01:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	very awsome!! i was totally expecting this picture when i opend the thread: __________________ ...AquaFox...

07-29-2005, 03:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	That is a good thing that they found open ice. It makes the creation of permanent scientific communities viable. To quote maleficent - "Yay!" __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

07-29-2005, 10:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	For a big ass color picture of the crater click here: http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/...-CraterIce.jpg

07-29-2005, 11:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	This is pretty cool if it is for real.

07-29-2005, 02:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
crazybobmarley Psycho Location: weeeeeeeeeee	That was so funny I pissed in your pants

07-29-2005, 03:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Bah, forget Starbucks, when does ski season start? That is seriously cool stuff. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

07-29-2005, 04:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	So has Haliburton already written the iron-clad contract no one can bid upon, to drill for oil next __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

07-29-2005, 08:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
analog Banned	Water on Mars is an amazing find. I'm just glad we have the ability to find out stuff like this. Very, very cool.

07-29-2005, 08:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	You're all wrong. When the first manned mission lands on Mars, they'll discover Starbucks has been there for the past 5 years. Either way, this is an amazing find. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

07-30-2005, 08:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	My question is, have they sampled it and made sure from tests that it really is water? Just because it's not dry ice doesn't mean it has to be (water) ice. __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

07-30-2005, 08:45 AM	#19 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Aquafox - you're hilarious. I haven't had a mars bar for years. I don't know if I entirely believe that this is a patch of water. I mean, they've been searching for water on mars for the past 2 decades at least... only now they're finding it? Has our space photography technology really advanced that significantly? Makes me wonder what kind of half-hearted searches they did in the past. It has been at least a decade since they determined several valleys and canyons on Mars were carved by ancient lakes, rivers, oceans, etc. Why did it take them so long to find this random patch of remaining ice? Anyone know when they're going to stop speculating and start digging up Mars for fossils? __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

07-30-2005, 10:02 AM	#21 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Life On Mars David Bowie It's a god-awful small affair To the girl with the mousy hair But her mummy is yelling "No" And her daddy has told her to go But her friend is nowhere to be seen Now she walks through her sunken dream To the seat with the clearest view And she's hooked to the silver screen But the film is a saddening bore For she's lived it ten times or more She could spit in the eyes of fools As they ask her to focus on Sailors fighting in the dance hall Oh man! Look at those cavemen go It's the freakiest show Take a look at the Lawman Beating up the wrong guy Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know He's in the best selling show Is there life on Mars? It's on Amerikas tortured brow That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow Now the workers have struck for fame 'Cause Lennon's on sale again See the mice in their million hordes From Ibeza to the Norfolk Broads Rule Britannia is out of bounds To my mother, my dog, and clowns But the film is a saddening bore 'Cause I wrote it ten times or more It's about to be writ again As I ask you to focus on Sailors fighting in the dance hall Oh man! Look at those cavemen go It's the freakiest show Take a look at the Lawman Beating up the wrong guy Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know He's in the best selling show Is there life on Mars? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-30-2005, 01:43 PM	#23 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Mage & Astrocloud, thanks for setting me straight. With only three orbiters, I understand why it would take so long to photograph the entire red planet. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

07-30-2005, 04:19 PM	#24 (permalink)
silvertiger Tilted Location: Denver	This is hugely exciting... I think we've found our next landing site. The upper layers of that substabce (which I believe is water, because if they can tell what's in an atmosphere from the colors ona picture, they can tell this isw water) could provide a huge wealth of knowledge about mars' atmosphereic history, chemical content, and also provide a location for manned exploration as water is Vital in all aspects.

08-02-2005, 07:28 AM	#25 (permalink)
deri Tilted	So how long does it take to go from a discovery like this to landing a probe in that crater to perform more tests? I'm guessing the paperwork/budgit approval process would be the logest, and then there is all the mission planning and technology that needs to go into such a mission.

08-02-2005, 07:55 AM	#26 (permalink)
frogza Registered User Location: Right Here	Now if they can find water near the equator then we'll be in business. The poles are simply too cold to set up a permenant settlement, the equator is the closest thing to livable with an average temp of 0 degrees celsius.