paulskinback

I moved away away from home a few years ago, but my brother, myself and my dad all used to work on our custom cars outside the front of our house while we lived there. We were known in the neighbourhood because of our cars and people used to drop round and discuss engines etc. One guy who lived locally and who we met at hot rod shows etc I hadn't seen for years, obviously. A nice guy who generously gave me a few parts for free - nothing untoward about him. My brother recently bumped into him and he had been in prison for the past 5 years....

In the middle of the night he had heard someone stealing his treasured motorbike and ran downstairs. Through the kitchen he grabbed the nearest kitchen knife, ran into the street and confronted the thief - who proceeded to drive straight for him and was going to run him down (and possibly kill him?). He hadn't seen the knife and it went into his chest, killing him.

My friend didn't know what to do so he got on his bike and rode straight to the police station to tell them, at which point they arrested him on the spot and he was tried and put in prison.

Am I posting this because I believe he stabbed the thief (which, even though i'm a pacifist I may have considered - however I think I would have chosen a bat instead of a knife - I don't like knives) or do I believe his story?

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Pragma

Use of lethal force as self-defense is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the law and you'd get off with no punishment. Now, there may be some complications if he grabbed the knife and was intending the stab the person originally, as lethal force is not allowed for defense of property - but it still seems fishy.

ratbastid

Did the police not believe his story? Do you not believe it?

My wife is fascinated by these real crime forenics documentaries on Discovery and Court TV. What I've learned is, there are no secrets, and lies don't last. Some forensic examiner will get to the bottom of what happened.

maleficent

I'm pretty sure that you aren't in the US... but not 100 percent certain....

When he was tried, did he not have an attorney? Did he just plead out his case to get a reduced sentence? Was five years the total length of his sentence, or did he get out early?

Prisons are full of people who made a foolish mistake in the heat of the moment... Hopefully your friend is out, and is able to go on with his life... Though I can't imagine that it's easy... If you believe his story, he probably needs some friends, don't give up on him...

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f6twister

Depending on where this stabbing happened, you may be able to check out his story by checking court records from that area. To me, it sounds like there is more to this story but you know the guy so you have to decide how reliable his info could be.

I think I would have arrested him also if I were a cop. The use of lethal force is only acceptable in cases where there is risk of great bodily harm or death, not to protect property. I know it was stated that the thief was driving towards him but I don't find much of a threat in that since it was on a cycle.

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joecool

In most cases it is illegal to kill somebody in the pursuit of a non-lethal crime, it must have been determined that this man could have 'saved' himself and not killed the man riding the bike, who may not have intended to kill him. In which case it’s not legal to kill somebody who is robbing from you, if that person is not on your property (i.e. in the street). I find it hard to believe you can stab somebody in the chest trying to run you down on a motorcycle. If you had time to move to the side to avoid being hit, why then was it necessary to kill the man? All these questions lead up to him only receiving manslaughter not murder charges. 5 years isn’t much for killing a man.

paulskinback

Apparently he himself was hit by the guy trying to run him over, so was in danger of serious injury or possibly death - the thief actually ran him down - a motorcycle accelerating into you can cause some severe damage no doubt, my only concern is that he made up the story because he saw red and at the last second and stabbed him, but... we are in England so the law is against us when it comes to protecting your life, family or property. A farmer a couple of years ago was jailed for murdering thieves that broke into his house - he had been burgled 3 or 4 times previously in a short amount of time, but shot the guy in his back with a shotgun on his way out the window. His life had been terrorised by break-ins but you can hardly plead self defence when you shoot a man in his back.

Another person was sued by a thief who injured themselves while breaking into his property and the thief won?!

My friend had a lawyer etc and was tried properly, and let out early but I think he's being honest, but the law was against him

__________________
'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents.

'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

kutulu

I don't know for sure but I think you'd be put in jail for shooting a person burglurizing your house in the back in America too, as you should.

Unless you are a cop and you are shooting someone in the back, of course we all know that cops are above the law and are allowed to kill at will.

Pragma

Hardly allowed to kill at will. Police are authorized to use deadly force when dealing with violent felonies. Reading the article, obviously the case wasn't a violent felony, but I don't believe the newspaper is giving the whole story - it seems pretty slanted to me.

Seanland

Thats sort of similar to what happened to my brothers friend, just to a higher degree.

Someone broke into his house in the middle of the night, so he grab a bat and beat the robber with a baseball bat, the guy living in the house got charged with assault.

I think thats not fair at all, that person has no right to be on your property or in your house. In your case, a person was killed while stealing the guys property. Is it worth taking the risk of letting him run over you. I dont think so, I probably would have done the same thing, but also, I dont know if I would have taken a knife, but if it was the only thing on the way, I would have taken it along

Mojo_PeiPei

It's all context and circumstance. If someone breaks into your house and you shoot them because you think you see a weapon, or some other factor lends creedence to the fact that you felt your life or someone elses was in danger; then no you would probably not go to jail. However if you chase them out into the street, shoot them in your yard, something to that extent, yes you will catch some shit. In this case, if It were America I can't say what would happen. The guy was riding down the street in a motorcycle at your boy, he was in proximity to stab him in motion... seems like a threat to life to me.

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Marvelous Marv

My personal philosophy, unencumbered by whatever laws happen to be in vogue, is that if you break into my house, or try to steal from me, you give up your right not to be killed. I'm not saying I would automatically try to kill the perp, but I wouldn't try to avoid doing it if it seemed I was in any danger, either. All of my efforts would be geared toward minimizing the risk to me.

If that meant running away, fine. If it meant cutting the other person's throat, that would be fine, too.

I'm told "I felt threatened" is the proper line to use. I doubt that I would say jack shit without an attorney's advice, though.

As a corollary, if I were ever on a jury that tried a person who defended his life or property, there would not be a conviction. I don't care WHAT the judge's instructions might be.

Yes, I feel strongly about this subject. Maybe now is the time for a thread on jury nullification.

Frosstbyte

The use of force to protect your property laws vary by state. Colorado and several other states have "Make My Day" laws under which you can kill someone for illegally being on your property for pretty much any reason. I don't know the laws where the OP lives, obviously.

cj2112

Here's the deal, he imtentionally grabbed a knife and wentoutside of his home to confront the perpetrator. The act of grabbing the knife says to a jury that he intended to stab the guy. Would you get 5 years in jail for that, probably, it's not self defense if you hear something outside of your house, grab a weapon and attack the person as they're trying to get away.