Identity theft victim strikes back - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 06-22-2005, 10:59 AM

I heard this story on one of the talk radio programs I listen to and thought it was very interesting....and I have to admit if it had been me I probably would have had the same thought as this guy....although I dont know that I would have acted on it....what do you think about this kind of "vigilantism"? I dont really think he was entitled to the money they guy had in the bank because was only a social security number he "stole", Would you have called the cops and turned him in? Or would you have tried for easy money?

Quote:

Brandon Canales of Schaumburg is accused of stealing money from the bank account of a Carpentersville man who investigators say had been using Canales' identity for years. The real Brandon Canales just graduated from high school. Now, he is out on bond charged with financial identity theft. The person who stole his identity remains in jail charged with the same offense. Augustin Oretega-Luna was caught after he reported to police that money was taken from his bank account.

Brandon Canales had his identity stolen when he was only 11 years old. Now 19, the Schaumberg resident was determined to find out who was using his name and social security number. Canales tracked the person down in Carpentersville. Instead of going to police, Canales planned to get even.

"He figured he had a bank account in town here or the town he lived in, and so basically through making phone calls, found out that he did -- there was an account in town, and he was able to get into it," said Det. Todd Shaver, Carpentersville police.

Police say Canales transferred $8,000 out an Amcore Bank account bearing his name and transferred it into his own bank account. Police got wind of the revenge when a man claiming to be Brandon Canales walked into the Carpentersville's police station to report money missing from his bank account. The man's real name is Augustine Oretega-Luna

"He told us he had bought the information years ago, and he needed a name and social security number basically to work," said Shaver.

Police say the 33-year-old Mexican immigrant bought the identity for $400 from a man in Palatine back in 1997. Ortega-Luna's wife and brother say Ortega-Luna did not know at the time what he was doing was illegal. His family says he just wanted a social-security number to work and pursue the American dream.

"He was working in landscaping and a lot of jobs in the field," said Juan Ortega, suspect's brother.

Ortega Luna was able to save enough money to buy this Carpentersville house, two cars and satellite TV, but now he sits in jail.

"I am worried for the kids. What happened to the kids? And I worry for my brother," said Juan Ortega.

And the real Brandan Caneles is in big legal trouble as well, getting even landed him with a felony charge of financial identity theft.

"You can't take the law into your own hands," said Shaver.

Brandon Canales is a foster child. ABC7 News spoke with his foster mother over the phone. Roberta Crobak is upset that Brandon decided to take the law in his own hands. She also believes Ortega-Luna is a victim as well. Crobak believes police should investigate the person who sold Brandon's identity to Ortega-Luna.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/061605_ns_id_theft.html

Gilda · 06-22-2005, 12:08 PM

Neither one did the right thing, but I find what the kid did much more reprehensible. He had every right to be upset that someone was using his identity, but he didn't choose to do the right thing; instead he decided to be an opportunist and thief. The identity theif just wanted a better life for himself and his family, and wasn't seeking to actively harm someone else.

RAGEAngel9 · 06-22-2005, 12:21 PM

I would like to know what the kid did wit hthe money. If he just took it and sat on it, he gets some more sympathy from. Still he's kind of a dumbass, I mean they know his name and all.

Oh and yeah I'm sure Ortega didn't realize that buying a new id is illegal, because you know if it was legal he wouldn't freakin' need it.

Stompy · 06-22-2005, 12:34 PM

Hey, if it's in his name AND his social security #, technically it's his money

He did nothing wrong.

I applaud what he did, and I would've done the same thing.

G_Whiz · 06-22-2005, 12:34 PM

Just to add an interesting thought, when Ortega bought the ID identity theft wasn't even identified as a big issue. Yes, it was an immigration issue, but not the crime it is seen as now. So, is Ortega's crime the lesser of the two??

frogza · 06-22-2005, 12:37 PM

I would have tracked him down and turned him in, plain and simple.

kutulu · 06-22-2005, 02:00 PM

That is fucked up. He had no right to steal the man's money. The law does not allow for 'eye for an eye'

Nazggul · 06-22-2005, 03:02 PM

Oh gee, I must have forgotten I had a bank account here. Well, let me just clean that up and close it.

You go kid.

raeanna74 · 06-22-2005, 04:55 PM

Hmmm - Part of me wants to applaud the kid. In his case he wasn't aware of the "theif's" reasons for stealing his name and SS#. In this day and age so many people do steal it for monetary profit.

Yet at the same time I think it's concievable that the Mexican was unaware that this was the name of a real American and only perhaps a newly created one. It's kindof sad that the department of SS did not notice that "Hey what's this kid working, he was only born yesterday? He must really grow up fast." Uh duh? I know some people may get new S.S. numbers but they don't send in a birth certificate stating that their date of birth is the day they applied for the number ya know.

I guess that two stupid acts don't make a smart one, do they.

maleficent · 06-22-2005, 05:50 PM

I'm reading the story, and wondering what this kids problem really is - the original story seems like Ortega is helpnig out the kid by giving him some decent credit - i mean he's bought a house and two cars and is wokring for the american dream... Right?

It's interesting - this story has a slightly different version that makes Ortega seem less victim like:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...lnorthwest-hed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Identity theft case snares victim too
Cops say teen found thief, sought payback

By Mark Shuman, Special to the Tribune. Tribune staff reporter Liam Ford contributed to this report
When a 19-year-old Schaumburg man learned this spring who apparently had stolen his identity when he was 10 years old, he wanted to teach the man a lesson, police said.

But instead of trying to have his impersonator arrested, police said Brandon Canales broke the law getting back at him.

Now both men are charged with felony identity theft, police said Wednesday.

Canales, who for years had sought information about the identity thief, somehow found a link to Carpentersville in March, police said.

Canales called up banks in Carpentersville, where Augustin Ortega-Luna, 33, who had used Canales' identity for eight years, lives, asking if they had any accounts in Canales' name, said Carpentersville Police Detective Todd Shaver.

In late March he hit pay dirt at Amcore Bank, Shaver said. Canales transferred $8,000 into his own bank account from the Amcore account set up by Ortega-Luna using the false name, Shaver said.

"The victim was trying for retribution, and I understand his frustration," Shaver said, adding that it was theft nonetheless.

Soon after the funds transfer, Ortega-Luna, of the 300 block of Charles Street, showed up at the police station--claiming to be Canales--and reported that money had disappeared from his account, Shaver said.

Ortega-Luna eventually admitted to police that he had purchased Canales' identity about eight years ago because he was in the United States illegally and used it so he could get a job, Shaver said.

Although he had not stolen money outright from Canales, Ortega-Luna amassed debts of about $208,000 for purchases that included his house, a 2005 Toyota truck and 1990 Honda car, Shaver said.

Ortega-Luna was charged this week with financial identity theft of more than $100,000, a felony. Canales was charged with financial identity theft of $300 to $10,000, also a felony.

Ortega-Luna was being held Wednesday in Kane County Jail in lieu of $75,000 bail, and Canales is out on bond.

Canales could not be reached for comment Wednesday. But his foster father--Ken Chrobak of Schaumburg who was interviewed Wednesday at the home where Canales lived until recently--said Canales has been plagued for years by the identity theft.

When they tried to get Canales a Social Security card about three years ago, Chrobak said, they found that--at least according to government records--the teen had been working full time since age 11.

Chrobak said Canales has had trouble getting income-tax refunds, with the IRS balking at issuing a check because his Social Security number was coming up in separate records.

"It's been a nightmare and a half for the kid," Chrobak said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can't quite tell whether Ortega has amassed these debts and run -- or whether he is paying them down...

Ortega has been paying taxes and filing returns on his income -- Is he a victim or a scammer?

Vincentt · 06-22-2005, 07:11 PM

Yeah, I just don't see how the kid can be attacked at all.

This will stick with his SS# for years, it costs a lot of money to fix credit fraud too.

I hope the judge or jury will notice this, and give him some slack.

I would vote not guilty if I was on the jury, but that is prob why I wouldn't be on one.

Gilda · 06-22-2005, 07:12 PM

When you buy a house, you are in debt for the amount financed. The same with a car. A middle class worker could quite easily have an unpaid balance of $208,000. It's difficult to say from the story whether this was a so-to-speak legitimate case of financing with the intent to pay, or an attempt at theft. I'm leaning toward the former, as the bulk of the debt must be in the house, which is not exactly a liquid or portable asset. They were both out of line, but I still see the kid as being more so.

ophelia783 · 06-22-2005, 08:56 PM

Honestly, it technically and legally is HIS money.

If it's under his name and social security number, it is legally his. While "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", the kid took $8,000 ONCE. The guy was an identity thief for EIGHT YEARS, amassing a fair amount of debt, and even went to police using the kid's name.

Whether he did it to make a new life for himself or whatever, enough is enough. He deserves to go to prison for what he did; it'll follow the kid his whole life. The kid should be on probabtion, have to repay the money to the man's family, and do community service.

My 2 cents.

Gilda · 06-22-2005, 09:35 PM

I doubt that it's legally his money. If it were, he'd have committed no crime at all and wouldn't be subject to prosecution.

The way I see it, it isn't clear whether Ortega-Luna did what he did with the intent to harm Canales or simply out of expediency. It's possible he thought he was buying a forged identity or the identity of a dead person (a common form of adopting a new identity) and didn't realize it belonged to a real living person. This does not make what he did right, but it does in my mind mitigate his actions somewhat.

Canales did what he did with the intent to harm someone else. Revenge is not any kind of justification for theft. This makes his actions the worse of the two. He had the opportunity to do the right thing, and chose to do the wrong thing.

slant eyes · 06-22-2005, 09:42 PM

if the bank account was in the kid's name, i don't see how he's in trouble for it. granted it's not his money, it is technically under his name. what can the feds bust him for? frauding his own name?

not sayin the kid was right. but in some odd sense, i can understand since identity theft is such a big thing now.

in the second article, the stepfather making lots of noise out of nothing, making him really sound like a victim.

sucks for the mexican as it seemed he was just hard working and wanted to provide for his family. maybe they'll see it as good intentions for stayin in america and grant him a working visa. if only

jorgelito · 06-22-2005, 10:41 PM

People seem to be forgetting that the kid has had problems because of the identity theft. I mean c'mon, he couldn't even get his tax refunds, or get a social security card that is legally his. I would be pissed too. The other guy shouldn't have a case at all. He STOLE someone elses identity.

CandleInTheDark · 06-22-2005, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Canales did what he did with the intent to harm someone else. Revenge is not any kind of justification for theft. This makes his actions the worse of the two. He had the opportunity to do the right thing, and chose to do the wrong thing.

A person has every right to defend himself and his property. Someone stole his identity. Any money involved using his stolen identity should be forfeit to him, and then some.

dlish · 06-22-2005, 11:45 PM

so the guy got done for stealing from himself? or was it just because he hadnt paid tax on the money? :P

geez give the kid a break. hes a genius! id give him a job with me any day!

ChistledStone · 06-23-2005, 12:56 AM

To see it through the kid's eyes I see him plagued with bad credit ratings and debt all because of some person who he didn't knew who commited a crime and stole something of his. I would steal from him, and then report to the police. He didn't know it was some immigrant, he just knew someone had stolen his life and he wanted it back.

But even if your first language isn't English I doubt you would think that stealing someone's identity isn't illegal. What would have tipped me off is the part that you had to use someone else's name.

Latch · 06-23-2005, 02:37 AM

I find it hard to fault the kid. I'd be pissed if I were him too. I mainly agree with what ophelia says, he should get a bit of punishment, pay back the money... but the main focus should be on the original "thief".

Stompy · 06-23-2005, 06:04 AM

The kid shouldn't have to do shit (like pay back the money, serve time, etc). He had his ID stolen. Plain and simple.

The money IS his. The account is not only in his name, but also with his social security number. No matter who opened it, it is his. It's the same thing as YOU opening your own bank account except... someone did it for you. The ID thief runs the risk of this happening. It's not illegal at all. He took money from an account with HIS name and ss #.

Just because someone is arrested and has supposed charges brought against them doesn't mean a thing. I'm sure charges will be dropped and the ID thief will be sent to prison for quite a while.

The man deserves to have his money drained, never to be returned. The kid deserves some type of compensation for this. $8,000 isn't really that much, either.

The man is lucky the kid didn't kill him. ID theft is no joke.

It kinda irritates me that people think the kid did anything wrong.. heh.

maleficent · 06-23-2005, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChistledStone

To see it through the kid's eyes I see him plagued with bad credit ratings and debt all because of some person.

We don't know that the he got plagued with bad credit ratings and debt... All we know is that the guy who stole the identity bought a house (and was still living in the house as far as we know)

the problem for the kid started when the guy who stole his identity had the audacity to actually pay taxes...

Seer666 · 06-23-2005, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

The way I see it, it isn't clear whether Ortega-Luna did what he did with the intent to harm Canales or simply out of expediency. It's possible he thought he was buying a forged identity or the identity of a dead person (a common form of adopting a new identity) and didn't realize it belonged to a real living person. This does not make what he did right, but it does in my mind mitigate his actions somewhat.

I don't see how it mitigates anything. The man is here illeagly. Period. If he wants The American Dream, he should go about it the right way. Fact of the matter is he gave the system the finger from the get go on how he got here, and cheated to get in this country. He get's no sympathy from me. The account was in the kids name, under his SSN, therefore, it is his. SO is the house if he wants it, and anything else that his name and SSN was used for. Anyone that wants to move to America is more then welcome to, as long as they do it fairly and leagly. Otherwise, they are leaches on the system, and helping to bring it down around our ears. 8 years of fucking the system, and people want to feel sorry for him? Fuck him. Send him packing with orders to shot on sight if he comes back.

guthmund · 06-23-2005, 07:15 AM

Bad credit ratings?

Maybe not now, but certainly massive debt. I mean, $208,000 is nothing to sneeze at. Imagine if Mr. Ortega-Luna had skipped town? Could you imagine the fight the kid would've had on his hands with the lenders later on?

I can't fault the kid too much for going after this guy. All things considered I can't imagine waking up tomorrow to find out there's another 'me' out there. That he's been out there for eight years and is in some pretty serious debt. It's hard to say definitively what I'd do under such circumstances. I'd say given our countries proclivity to grab a gun to solve a problem, Mr. Ortega-Luna's loss of $8000...well, he was probably lucky, no?

I really don't care if the guy was 'hard working' illegal or not. The fact is he's still an illegal. I can't imagine this guy didn't know that buying someone elses papers (identity) wasn't illegal. I can't imagine he's that stupid. This guy had eight years to get his shit together and get a ticket to the show. He didn't. Now I'm supposed to feel sorry for the guy? He's not fresh off the boat, so to speak, he's been here for a while. He didn't borrow the guy's identity until he could safely get his own, he stole it and lived the lie.

Fine the kid something because he really should've gone to the cops, stick Mr. Ortega-Luna in jail for breaking the law and when his time is up, deport him. Maybe he'll have learned a bit and come into the country the right way next time.

maleficent · 06-23-2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seer666

IOtherwise, they are leaches on the system, and helping to bring it down around our ears. 8 years of fucking the system, and people want to feel sorry for him?.

In this instance.. this illegal alien has worked and supported his family AND paid taxes for the past 8 years... How exactly is he doing anything to the system? There are us citizens who spend more time working the system than this dude has

Seer666 · 06-23-2005, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

In this instance.. this illegal alien has worked and supported his family AND paid taxes for the past 8 years... How exactly is he doing anything to the system? There are us citizens who spend more time working the system than this dude has

Look at all the money he is costing the system because of how he got in. That is how. How much money does fighting identy theft cost us in leage fees every year? Time and money wasted sorting out fthis kids leagal history now. Money that people will never see on items bought because this guy is going to prison, which we will be paying for, BTW. The fact that he paid taxes does nothing to midigate the damage he caused.

Stompy · 06-23-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

In this instance.. this illegal alien has worked and supported his family AND paid taxes for the past 8 years... How exactly is he doing anything to the system? There are us citizens who spend more time working the system than this dude has

Maybe you missed the part that he stole someone's identity... call me crazy, but that's a pretty serious crime.

John Gotti supported his family. So it's okay for him to do everything he did, huh?

scout · 06-23-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seer666

I don't see how it mitigates anything. The man is here illeagly. Period. If he wants The American Dream, he should go about it the right way. Fact of the matter is he gave the system the finger from the get go on how he got here, and cheated to get in this country. He get's no sympathy from me. The account was in the kids name, under his SSN, therefore, it is his. SO is the house if he wants it, and anything else that his name and SSN was used for. Anyone that wants to move to America is more then welcome to, as long as they do it fairly and leagly. Otherwise, they are leaches on the system, and helping to bring it down around our ears. 8 years of fucking the system, and people want to feel sorry for him? Fuck him. Send him packing with orders to shot on sight if he comes back.

My feelings exactly. The Mexican was here ILLEGALLY. He should have no rights whatsoever. Give the money, the house, the cars etc. to the kid to sell or whatever he wants since it's his anyway and ship the illegals back to whence they came. I can't believe some of you fine folks actually side with the illegal alien. Not bashing or anything but I personally just can't see having pity on anyone that is here illegally when so many struggle and succeed and do it legally. I know I'm biased but this whole Mexican invasion had me worked up and frustrated beyond belief with our politicians before this fine example of one of our more pressing problems. I'm with Seer666, fuck the Mexican because there is a legal route to enter the U.S. and he had no right to do what he did to begin with.

jorgelito · 06-23-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

We don't know that the he got plagued with bad credit ratings and debt... All we know is that the guy who stole the identity bought a house (and was still living in the house as far as we know)

the problem for the kid started when the guy who stole his identity had the audacity to actually pay taxes...

It says in the article all the problems the kid experienced because of the theft.

stevie667 · 06-23-2005, 01:11 PM

Go kid, get the money, if he stole the identity of someone else under the same name, ok, maybe bad, but he stole his own name? Jeez, he should be applauded and told not to do something silly like that again.

Luna should have forfeited his rights as soon as he entered the country illegially. He then went on to steal someone elses identy, causing that person all kinds of trouble, it's his own bad luck that the kids whos ID he stole decided to get even.

Luna go to jail, Canales go free.

WillyPete · 06-23-2005, 01:24 PM

To those who say it's not a big deal, how would you feel if someone posed as you and didn't take your SS#, but used your university degree diploma to get a higher paying job?
Any different?

Or to vote with your name? Still not upset?

How about getting a marriage license, or committing a faceless crime, so that the authorities start looking at you?

What if YOUR id turned up at the next 9/11 site? How would you explain that and wish away the interrogation and rumours?

StephenSa · 06-24-2005, 08:27 AM

I agree with the others that pointed out the man was in the States as as illegal. You come into this country illegally then steal some kids identity and get twisted up when the kid comes looking for a little pay-back? Give me a break. Anything the man aquired while living here illegally under the stolen name should be confiscated and sold at auction with the proceeds being used to pay whatever legal expenses are neccessary for the kid (US citizen) to get his tax situation/credit history all straightened out so he can get on with his life. Anything left after that can be donated to some fund that helps victims of identity theft. The illegal should be deported to his native country with fifty bucks and a note that says "Thank you for your visit, now have fun defrauding your homland." The kid should have gone to the authorities but I think he has learned that lesson and should recieve no further punitive measures.

Journeyman · 06-24-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Canales was charged with financial identity theft of $300 to $10,000, also a felony.

It's been said before already, but I'd like to clarify how I'd pose this situation to a jury: Who's identity did he steal? Oh, his own? Yeah, sure.

Quote:

Ortega-Luna's wife and brother say Ortega-Luna did not know at the time what he was doing was illegal. His family says he just wanted a social-security number to work and pursue the American dream.

Two things: At the time, maybe. But spending the past eight years in America without ever once learning of the concept of identity theft? Doubtful. Also, (and I haven't heard news about this in years, so inform me if I'm mistaken) isn't three years the amount of time needed to spend in the country for an illegal alien to request citizenship?

In terms of illegals, I don't really care if they come here to stake out a claim. More power to them; but you get no sympathy from me if you start by fucking over a born citizen.

thejoker130 · 06-26-2005, 08:59 AM

One on hand I just want to give Canales a standing ovation for giving the guy who stole his identity exactly what he deserved on the other there's the moral issue of leaving justice to our crumbling legal system or taking the law into ones own hands. If he'ld left it to the law he might have never gotten his money and luna might have gotten off scott free...And it was his money and his identity that he stole....

hrm........a choice between whats right and whats legal.........

There's a psycologist who came up with somthing to develop that kind of thinking in children his name was Kolberg I think. He would pose a moral question like "your spouse is ill but the medicine they need is far to expensive for you to afford ever. you have the choice of stealing the medicine or going without. what do you do?"

I think that this issue is a moral question as well as a legal one.

My own opinion? good for you guy heres your money go home

greytone · 06-26-2005, 02:24 PM

I want that kid working for me. Maybe we need a new law that clarifies that it is perfectly legal to withdraw money from an account in your own name and SSN no matter who put the money in it. There needs to be a way to correct a clerical mistake if the bank or another customer at the bank makes an honest mistake. But if someone opens an account using your identity than that account is morally yours. It needs to be legally recognized as yours as well.

Suave · 06-26-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

The identity theif just wanted a better life for himself and his family, and wasn't seeking to actively harm someone else.

The guy didn't know that. If someone stole your identity, would you think "Hey, it's probably just a poor ignorant soul who doesn't know any better" or would you assume they're a malicious criminal?

I personally wouldn't have taken the money out of the account for that. I might have tried suing if it had been malicious. Lawsuits are the legal way of stealing money from people you don't like.

dlish · 06-27-2005, 04:54 AM

sorry greytone..i bags him first! read pst #18!

Ustwo · 06-27-2005, 08:19 AM

I am having a problem trying to see how its illegal to take money under your own name and social security number.

I also don't buy the idea the guy didn't know he was doing something illegal. He is obviously not a moron.

lindseylatch · 06-27-2005, 10:07 AM

I don't see how what the kid did was "identity theft." He in no way claimed to be Ortega. He used his REAL identity.
He stole money out of an account with his name on it. I bet a jury would throw this out in a minute...

odu_sonar_AE · 06-27-2005, 12:07 PM

Wow, that’s one way to do it. It was smart of the kid to find out who was using his name, but it seems that he became stupid shortly thereafter. He should have taken a step back, and let the police sort it out.

I too agree that the kid didn’t partake in “Identity theft,” as it was his won identity. I’m guessing that is the general term b/c he claimed to be someone else (the in turn was himself….wow it’s like I am living in bizarro world).

Maybe, if the kid didn’t spend any of the money, the punishment could get knocked down to a form of community service?

06-22-2005, 12:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Neither one did the right thing, but I find what the kid did much more reprehensible. He had every right to be upset that someone was using his identity, but he didn't choose to do the right thing; instead he decided to be an opportunist and thief. The identity theif just wanted a better life for himself and his family, and wasn't seeking to actively harm someone else. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

06-22-2005, 12:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Hey, if it's in his name AND his social security #, technically it's his money He did nothing wrong. I applaud what he did, and I would've done the same thing. __________________ I love lamp.

06-22-2005, 12:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
G_Whiz Junkie Location: Northern California	Just to add an interesting thought, when Ortega bought the ID identity theft wasn't even identified as a big issue. Yes, it was an immigration issue, but not the crime it is seen as now. So, is Ortega's crime the lesser of the two?? __________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

06-22-2005, 03:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Nazggul Psycho Location: San Francisco	Oh gee, I must have forgotten I had a bank account here. Well, let me just clean that up and close it. You go kid. __________________ "If something has to give then it always will." -- Editors

06-22-2005, 04:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Hmmm - Part of me wants to applaud the kid. In his case he wasn't aware of the "theif's" reasons for stealing his name and SS#. In this day and age so many people do steal it for monetary profit. Yet at the same time I think it's concievable that the Mexican was unaware that this was the name of a real American and only perhaps a newly created one. It's kindof sad that the department of SS did not notice that "Hey what's this kid working, he was only born yesterday? He must really grow up fast." Uh duh? I know some people may get new S.S. numbers but they don't send in a birth certificate stating that their date of birth is the day they applied for the number ya know. I guess that two stupid acts don't make a smart one, do they. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-22-2005, 12:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
RAGEAngel9 Insane Location: Vermont	I would like to know what the kid did wit hthe money. If he just took it and sat on it, he gets some more sympathy from. Still he's kind of a dumbass, I mean they know his name and all. Oh and yeah I'm sure Ortega didn't realize that buying a new id is illegal, because you know if it was legal he wouldn't freakin' need it.

06-22-2005, 12:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
frogza Registered User Location: Right Here	I would have tracked him down and turned him in, plain and simple.

06-22-2005, 02:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	That is fucked up. He had no right to steal the man's money. The law does not allow for 'eye for an eye'

06-22-2005, 05:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I'm reading the story, and wondering what this kids problem really is - the original story seems like Ortega is helpnig out the kid by giving him some decent credit - i mean he's bought a house and two cars and is wokring for the american dream... Right? It's interesting - this story has a slightly different version that makes Ortega seem less victim like: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...lnorthwest-hed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Identity theft case snares victim too Cops say teen found thief, sought payback By Mark Shuman, Special to the Tribune. Tribune staff reporter Liam Ford contributed to this report When a 19-year-old Schaumburg man learned this spring who apparently had stolen his identity when he was 10 years old, he wanted to teach the man a lesson, police said. But instead of trying to have his impersonator arrested, police said Brandon Canales broke the law getting back at him. Now both men are charged with felony identity theft, police said Wednesday. Canales, who for years had sought information about the identity thief, somehow found a link to Carpentersville in March, police said. Canales called up banks in Carpentersville, where Augustin Ortega-Luna, 33, who had used Canales' identity for eight years, lives, asking if they had any accounts in Canales' name, said Carpentersville Police Detective Todd Shaver. In late March he hit pay dirt at Amcore Bank, Shaver said. Canales transferred $8,000 into his own bank account from the Amcore account set up by Ortega-Luna using the false name, Shaver said. "The victim was trying for retribution, and I understand his frustration," Shaver said, adding that it was theft nonetheless. Soon after the funds transfer, Ortega-Luna, of the 300 block of Charles Street, showed up at the police station--claiming to be Canales--and reported that money had disappeared from his account, Shaver said. Ortega-Luna eventually admitted to police that he had purchased Canales' identity about eight years ago because he was in the United States illegally and used it so he could get a job, Shaver said. Although he had not stolen money outright from Canales, Ortega-Luna amassed debts of about $208,000 for purchases that included his house, a 2005 Toyota truck and 1990 Honda car, Shaver said. Ortega-Luna was charged this week with financial identity theft of more than $100,000, a felony. Canales was charged with financial identity theft of $300 to $10,000, also a felony. Ortega-Luna was being held Wednesday in Kane County Jail in lieu of $75,000 bail, and Canales is out on bond. Canales could not be reached for comment Wednesday. But his foster father--Ken Chrobak of Schaumburg who was interviewed Wednesday at the home where Canales lived until recently--said Canales has been plagued for years by the identity theft. When they tried to get Canales a Social Security card about three years ago, Chrobak said, they found that--at least according to government records--the teen had been working full time since age 11. Chrobak said Canales has had trouble getting income-tax refunds, with the IRS balking at issuing a check because his Social Security number was coming up in separate records. "It's been a nightmare and a half for the kid," Chrobak said. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I can't quite tell whether Ortega has amassed these debts and run -- or whether he is paying them down... Ortega has been paying taxes and filing returns on his income -- Is he a victim or a scammer? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

06-22-2005, 07:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	Yeah, I just don't see how the kid can be attacked at all. This will stick with his SS# for years, it costs a lot of money to fix credit fraud too. I hope the judge or jury will notice this, and give him some slack. I would vote not guilty if I was on the jury, but that is prob why I wouldn't be on one. __________________ .

06-22-2005, 07:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	When you buy a house, you are in debt for the amount financed. The same with a car. A middle class worker could quite easily have an unpaid balance of $208,000. It's difficult to say from the story whether this was a so-to-speak legitimate case of financing with the intent to pay, or an attempt at theft. I'm leaning toward the former, as the bulk of the debt must be in the house, which is not exactly a liquid or portable asset. They were both out of line, but I still see the kid as being more so. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

06-22-2005, 08:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
ophelia783 Insane Location: West Virginia	Honestly, it technically and legally is HIS money. If it's under his name and social security number, it is legally his. While "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", the kid took $8,000 ONCE. The guy was an identity thief for EIGHT YEARS, amassing a fair amount of debt, and even went to police using the kid's name. Whether he did it to make a new life for himself or whatever, enough is enough. He deserves to go to prison for what he did; it'll follow the kid his whole life. The kid should be on probabtion, have to repay the money to the man's family, and do community service. My 2 cents. __________________ ~~ He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat ~~

06-22-2005, 09:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I doubt that it's legally his money. If it were, he'd have committed no crime at all and wouldn't be subject to prosecution. The way I see it, it isn't clear whether Ortega-Luna did what he did with the intent to harm Canales or simply out of expediency. It's possible he thought he was buying a forged identity or the identity of a dead person (a common form of adopting a new identity) and didn't realize it belonged to a real living person. This does not make what he did right, but it does in my mind mitigate his actions somewhat. Canales did what he did with the intent to harm someone else. Revenge is not any kind of justification for theft. This makes his actions the worse of the two. He had the opportunity to do the right thing, and chose to do the wrong thing. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

06-22-2005, 09:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
slant eyes Psycho Location: cali	if the bank account was in the kid's name, i don't see how he's in trouble for it. granted it's not his money, it is technically under his name. what can the feds bust him for? frauding his own name? not sayin the kid was right. but in some odd sense, i can understand since identity theft is such a big thing now. in the second article, the stepfather making lots of noise out of nothing, making him really sound like a victim. sucks for the mexican as it seemed he was just hard working and wanted to provide for his family. maybe they'll see it as good intentions for stayin in america and grant him a working visa. if only __________________ no man or woman is worth your tears - and the one who is, won't make you cry question authority, don't ask why, just do it!

06-22-2005, 10:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	People seem to be forgetting that the kid has had problems because of the identity theft. I mean c'mon, he couldn't even get his tax refunds, or get a social security card that is legally his. I would be pissed too. The other guy shouldn't have a case at all. He STOLE someone elses identity. __________________ "The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter

06-22-2005, 11:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	so the guy got done for stealing from himself? or was it just because he hadnt paid tax on the money? :P geez give the kid a break. hes a genius! id give him a job with me any day! __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

06-23-2005, 12:56 AM	#19 (permalink)
ChistledStone Crazy Location: Australia	To see it through the kid's eyes I see him plagued with bad credit ratings and debt all because of some person who he didn't knew who commited a crime and stole something of his. I would steal from him, and then report to the police. He didn't know it was some immigrant, he just knew someone had stolen his life and he wanted it back. But even if your first language isn't English I doubt you would think that stealing someone's identity isn't illegal. What would have tipped me off is the part that you had to use someone else's name. __________________ A.minor.fall.then.a.major.lift

06-23-2005, 02:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	I find it hard to fault the kid. I'd be pissed if I were him too. I mainly agree with what ophelia says, he should get a bit of punishment, pay back the money... but the main focus should be on the original "thief".

06-23-2005, 06:04 AM	#21 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	The kid shouldn't have to do shit (like pay back the money, serve time, etc). He had his ID stolen. Plain and simple. The money IS his. The account is not only in his name, but also with his social security number. No matter who opened it, it is his. It's the same thing as YOU opening your own bank account except... someone did it for you. The ID thief runs the risk of this happening. It's not illegal at all. He took money from an account with HIS name and ss #. Just because someone is arrested and has supposed charges brought against them doesn't mean a thing. I'm sure charges will be dropped and the ID thief will be sent to prison for quite a while. The man deserves to have his money drained, never to be returned. The kid deserves some type of compensation for this. $8,000 isn't really that much, either. The man is lucky the kid didn't kill him. ID theft is no joke. It kinda irritates me that people think the kid did anything wrong.. heh. __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 06-23-2005 at 06:07 AM..

06-23-2005, 07:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Bad credit ratings? Maybe not now, but certainly massive debt. I mean, $208,000 is nothing to sneeze at. Imagine if Mr. Ortega-Luna had skipped town? Could you imagine the fight the kid would've had on his hands with the lenders later on? I can't fault the kid too much for going after this guy. All things considered I can't imagine waking up tomorrow to find out there's another 'me' out there. That he's been out there for eight years and is in some pretty serious debt. It's hard to say definitively what I'd do under such circumstances. I'd say given our countries proclivity to grab a gun to solve a problem, Mr. Ortega-Luna's loss of $8000...well, he was probably lucky, no? I really don't care if the guy was 'hard working' illegal or not. The fact is he's still an illegal. I can't imagine this guy didn't know that buying someone elses papers (identity) wasn't illegal. I can't imagine he's that stupid. This guy had eight years to get his shit together and get a ticket to the show. He didn't. Now I'm supposed to feel sorry for the guy? He's not fresh off the boat, so to speak, he's been here for a while. He didn't borrow the guy's identity until he could safely get his own, he stole it and lived the lie. Fine the kid something because he really should've gone to the cops, stick Mr. Ortega-Luna in jail for breaking the law and when his time is up, deport him. Maybe he'll have learned a bit and come into the country the right way next time. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously. Last edited by guthmund; 06-23-2005 at 07:26 AM..

06-23-2005, 01:11 PM	#30 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Go kid, get the money, if he stole the identity of someone else under the same name, ok, maybe bad, but he stole his own name? Jeez, he should be applauded and told not to do something silly like that again. Luna should have forfeited his rights as soon as he entered the country illegially. He then went on to steal someone elses identy, causing that person all kinds of trouble, it's his own bad luck that the kids whos ID he stole decided to get even. Luna go to jail, Canales go free. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

06-23-2005, 01:24 PM	#31 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	To those who say it's not a big deal, how would you feel if someone posed as you and didn't take your SS#, but used your university degree diploma to get a higher paying job? Any different? Or to vote with your name? Still not upset? How about getting a marriage license, or committing a faceless crime, so that the authorities start looking at you? What if YOUR id turned up at the next 9/11 site? How would you explain that and wish away the interrogation and rumours?

06-24-2005, 08:27 AM	#32 (permalink)
StephenSa Psycho Location: Dallas, Texas	I agree with the others that pointed out the man was in the States as as illegal. You come into this country illegally then steal some kids identity and get twisted up when the kid comes looking for a little pay-back? Give me a break. Anything the man aquired while living here illegally under the stolen name should be confiscated and sold at auction with the proceeds being used to pay whatever legal expenses are neccessary for the kid (US citizen) to get his tax situation/credit history all straightened out so he can get on with his life. Anything left after that can be donated to some fund that helps victims of identity theft. The illegal should be deported to his native country with fifty bucks and a note that says "Thank you for your visit, now have fun defrauding your homland." The kid should have gone to the authorities but I think he has learned that lesson and should recieve no further punitive measures. __________________ Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger.

06-26-2005, 08:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
thejoker130 Insane Location: slippery rock university AKA: The left ass cheek of the world	One on hand I just want to give Canales a standing ovation for giving the guy who stole his identity exactly what he deserved on the other there's the moral issue of leaving justice to our crumbling legal system or taking the law into ones own hands. If he'ld left it to the law he might have never gotten his money and luna might have gotten off scott free...And it was his money and his identity that he stole.... hrm........a choice between whats right and whats legal......... There's a psycologist who came up with somthing to develop that kind of thinking in children his name was Kolberg I think. He would pose a moral question like "your spouse is ill but the medicine they need is far to expensive for you to afford ever. you have the choice of stealing the medicine or going without. what do you do?" I think that this issue is a moral question as well as a legal one. My own opinion? good for you guy heres your money go home __________________ WHAT MORE CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? ------------------------------------- I like you. When the world is mine your death will be quick and painless.

06-26-2005, 02:24 PM	#35 (permalink)
greytone Junkie	I want that kid working for me. Maybe we need a new law that clarifies that it is perfectly legal to withdraw money from an account in your own name and SSN no matter who put the money in it. There needs to be a way to correct a clerical mistake if the bank or another customer at the bank makes an honest mistake. But if someone opens an account using your identity than that account is morally yours. It needs to be legally recognized as yours as well. __________________ I was there to see beautiful naked women. So was everybody else. It's a common failing. Robert A Heinlein in "They Do It With Mirrors"

06-27-2005, 04:54 AM	#37 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	sorry greytone..i bags him first! read pst #18! __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

06-27-2005, 08:19 AM	#38 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I am having a problem trying to see how its illegal to take money under your own name and social security number. I also don't buy the idea the guy didn't know he was doing something illegal. He is obviously not a moron. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 06-27-2005 at 08:23 AM..

06-27-2005, 10:07 AM	#39 (permalink)
lindseylatch Addict Location: Seattle, WA	I don't see how what the kid did was "identity theft." He in no way claimed to be Ortega. He used his REAL identity. He stole money out of an account with his name on it. I bet a jury would throw this out in a minute... __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire

06-27-2005, 12:07 PM	#40 (permalink)
odu_sonar_AE Tilted	Wow, that’s one way to do it. It was smart of the kid to find out who was using his name, but it seems that he became stupid shortly thereafter. He should have taken a step back, and let the police sort it out. I too agree that the kid didn’t partake in “Identity theft,” as it was his won identity. I’m guessing that is the general term b/c he claimed to be someone else (the in turn was himself….wow it’s like I am living in bizarro world). Maybe, if the kid didn’t spend any of the money, the punishment could get knocked down to a form of community service?