Money does not buy happiness, she proves it 5 million times - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 06-13-2005, 08:53 AM

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LINK

Updated: 11:42 AM EDT
Grieving 9/11 Widow Spends Almost $5 Million
Kathy Trant Says She Wanted to Rid Herself of 'Blood Money'.

(June 13) - When her husband died in the attacks on the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, relatives, friends and strangers opened their hearts and their wallets to Kathy Trant, donating millions of dollars to Trant and her three children.

The money was meant to compensate for the income Dan Trant would have used to support his family for years to come. But to Trant it represented blood money, money that couldn't make up for what she had lost.

Fewer than four years after the attacks, she has blown through most of the money, and is coming out with her story now to warn others against the trappings of chronic spending, a major problem among Americans.

"It's blood money that I don't want," Trant said. "I want my husband back."

After her husband's funeral, Kathy Trant spiraled into deeper and deeper circles of depression. She turned to alcohol and antidepressants to numb the pain, and her weight fluctuated between 90 and 170 pounds.

But as she managed to get one set of problems under control, another problem emerged. Trant started spending out of control.

At the time of his death, Dan Trant, 40, was quickly moving up the ladder as a bond trader at Cantor Fitzgerald, making $130,000 in addition to tens of thousands in bonuses in his final year. Based on his estimated future earnings, the Federal Victim Compensation Fund awarded Kathy Trant $4.2 million, of which she received half. She got another $3 million from friends and family.

"I didn't know how to give back because so many people gave to me when I lost my husband," Trant said.

Trant began lavishing gifts on friends and family. She gave her former housekeeper $15,000 to buy a home in El Salvador, she spent $70,000 to take six friends to the Super Bowl and another $30,000 for a trip for 20 to the Bahamas.

She said Dan would have wanted to help others, and he would have also liked to improve their home as well. So Trant spent $1.5 million to nearly triple the size of her suburban New York home. She spent $350,000 on the back yard, installing a full basketball court also equipped for volleyball, tennis and Rollerblading, a heated pool and a hot tub.

Trant designed a shrine of her husband's mementos, and put it on display in her new red-white-and-blue den. She added sports memorabilia to her walls, including a Boston Celtics ball autographed by players. Dan was drafted last by the Celtics in 1984t, and though he never played for them, he played professionally in Ireland.

Trant also blew millions on frivolous items for herself. Her walk-in closet houses a $500,000 shoe collection, gowns by Versace and Capelli that go for $5,000 each and Fendi and Judith Leiber handbags, also $5,000 per bag.

Experts says overspending is not uncommon among the families of 9/11 victims, nor is it limited to one group of people. A Stanford University study estimates that 8 percent of Americans, or 23.6 million people, suffer from compulsive shopping disorder.

"The issue of survival guilt is a big one," said April Lane Benson, psychologist and author of the book "I Shop Therefore I Am." "People who lost someone on 9/11 feel a total lack of control for a long period of time. That's why they say, 'I might as well blow everything I have. I could be the next one to go.'"

Benson said it is important for shopaholics to recognize the triggers that start the spending sprees, such as certain moods or specific times of the year.

"For [Trant] it might be, 'If I keep shopping, I won't have to feel deeply the loss of my husband,'" Benson said.

Trant is down to her last $500,000. A stay-at-home mom for the last 20 years, she and a friend are opening a hair-removal and cosmetic tattoo shop in East Norwich, Conn.

While Trant worries about her future, she insists it's not about the money. She is concerned now with helping other chronic shoppers, and hopes her children will learn from her mistakes when they receive $800,000 earmarked for them when they turn 18.

"It's a problem people laugh at," Trant said. "When you have alcoholism or drug addiction, it's all a different story."

No dollar can bring a single one of these people back.

I thought it was a bit much for all the outpouring of money that went to the surviving families, some of the families got huge bankrolls, a stark contrast to the recent tsunami in SE Asia.

I've never been satisfied with things that I purchase. I purchase them and they bring me usage, but for the most part I don't care about the material things. It's my friends that make me feel rich inside.

MSD · 06-13-2005, 09:57 AM

Hmm, my dad died from cancer and all we got was $200,000 of debt. I hope everyone who donated money hears about this and realizes that they may have been wasting it. I don't see why the shock value of the manner of death should make one death more worthy of donations to the family than others. If you look at the circumstances, tsunami victims and people dying by the thousands each day in third-world countries probably need your tax write-off more than the family of a bond trader.

maleficent · 06-13-2005, 10:02 AM

There were more than some surviving families that deserved every penny that they got.

My best friends family (he was single, which immediately made him less desirable on the doling out of money lists) got jack shit, Tom's life insurance (which he had since he was in his early 20s) helped out his family.

This woman doesn't elicit a whole lot of sympathy from me. and shame on her 'friends' for not stopping her from taking passels of people on trips. If she didn't want the blood money, she could have easily donated it to causes that did need it, or set up a foundation to do some good. 500K worth of shoes? Go Away.

His name wasn't one that was familiar to me at Cantor, but knowing the character of a lot of the people who worked there, he'd be appalled at what his wife turned into. Spending millions doesn't bring him back, setting up a foundation helps his memory.

World's King · 06-13-2005, 10:02 AM

That's a sick woman.

"I don't want this money. But I will take $500,000 worth of shoes."

MexicanOnABike · 06-13-2005, 10:46 AM

not impressed. you put the money away and you live with that for the rest of your life... not all at once!!!

Ustwo · 06-13-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

"It's a problem people laugh at," Trant said. "When you have alcoholism or drug addiction, it's all a different story."

Are all negative aspects and stupid moves due to a disorder these days or can some people just be dumbasses?

This woman blows a few million dollars worth of donated money and she tries to pass the blame to something else.

I'm not a dumbass, I'm a chronic shopper!

Whats worse is that a story like this will make people less likely to donate. Its the idiots who make the news.

Marvelous Marv · 06-13-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Are all negative aspects and stupid moves due to a disorder these days or can some people just be dumbasses?

This woman blows a few million dollars worth of donated money and she tries to pass the blame to something else.

I'm not a dumbass, I'm a chronic shopper!

Whats worse is that a story like this will make people less likely to donate. Its the idiots who make the news.

I still haven't heard why the victims' families received the tax funds that less wealthy people paid. Are the soldiers who get killed in Iraq less deserving than a bond trader?

At $130,000 a year plus bonuses, he could afford life insurance, too.

pan6467 · 06-13-2005, 11:51 AM

Unfortunately, cases like this come up a lot with HUGE lottery winners also, as documented by the overwhelming numbers of winners who end up filing bankruptcy, have broken marriages, become addicts, and so on.

People get more money than they have ever seen or thought of ever having and in a society where possesions mean everything (easy to say they don't but....), they start spending and spending and spending.

There is a huge difference between working for something and just recieving it. The majority of people who work hard and make the money over time tend to value it more. (Not all value it more, and not all who recieve money in this way are going to be overspenders.)

This is a very common occurence, just this got some publicity because of how she got the money.

Lead543 · 06-13-2005, 11:55 AM

At least her kids will get money when they're 18, it'd be horrible for all that money to be donated, they reach college and be too broke to pay for it, because their mother made poor choices. Chronic shopping may be a problem, but sometimes I think people just want a label or a disease to blame for their own mistakes.

Gilda · 06-13-2005, 12:03 PM

5 million invested to live off of the interest gives you, conservatively, 200-300 grand for life. Compulsive spending itself is not a psychological disorder, but it is a symptom of bipolar personality disorder, or manic-depression, as is the weight fluctuation and eating/starving cycle.

In any case, it's not as if she's out on the streets. She has a house worth a couple of million dollars she can sell, and still not have to work ever again in her life. The interest off of 2 million will give her an income probably similar to what my wife and I make together each year..

Money can't buy happiness, it's true, but it can remove some of the obstacles to happiness. I read a study once that showed that beyond a certain income level, having more money bears no correlation to how happy someone is, and that income level is quite a bit lower than one would expect. At the time, the reported income for a family of 4 that provided the cutoff level was at $29,000 (this was some 11 or 12 years ago, though).

Other factors were much more important to happiness. Having a stable source of income, and a satisfying job were much higher on the list, as were being physically and mentally healthy and having stable rewarding social relationships.

The reason is that we adjust our expectations to meet our abilities. Buying a Brave and the Bold #28 last year brought me a lot of pleasure. Someone with a seven figure income probably would need something like an Amazing Fantasy #15 to get the same level of pleasure.

We adjust expectations going both ways, but the trasition is easier and quicker going up. If you suddenly found yourself making twice the money you do now, it would take a relatively short period of time to adjust what it takes to make you happy to your new income level. It would take longer if you were making half, but you'd adjust going down so long as you didn't dip below the level at which providing for all basic needs and a minimum of luxuries was possible.

Zeraph · 06-13-2005, 01:01 PM

Nothing to say but "A fool and her money are soon parted"

pan6467 · 06-13-2005, 01:08 PM

Easy to judge her as weak, criticize her and make light of the situation, but how do you know for a fact you would react any differently.

If given money beyond your wildest dreams, how do you know for a fact you wouldn't start spending and lose control?

StanT · 06-13-2005, 01:11 PM

Money may not buy happiness, but it can make most problems go away.

It's really a shame that people will think of her next time there is a need for charity. I also have a hard time with her placing the blame on everyone, but herself. Just once I'd like to see someone say "Damn, I was a moron, it's my own fault".

maleficent · 06-13-2005, 01:19 PM

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She said Dan would have wanted to help others, and he would have also liked to improve their home as well. So Trant spent $1.5 million to nearly triple the size of her suburban New York home. She spent $350,000 on the back yard, installing a full basketball court also equipped for volleyball, tennis and Rollerblading, a heated pool and a hot tub.

Ok, so she realizes that her husband would have wanted to help other people... but the only other person that she helped -- was 15K to her former housekeeper to buy a house out of the country. Everything else was ME ME ME ME ME ME ME...

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Easy to judge her as weak, criticize her and make light of the situation, but how do you know for a fact you would react any differently.

Agreed, it's easy to make light of the situation because it's so freakin' absurd that one person could be so selfish. Had it not been for the trusts for her children, she probably would have blown thru that to. Yes, it's tragic that she lost her husband in the prime of his life, they should have had 20 + more years together, but she has her children to think about - she's a parent and has a responsibilty to her children regardless of what has happened in her life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

If given money beyond your wildest dreams, how do you know for a fact you wouldn't start spending and lose control?

I know myself and I know what a cheapskate I am. I would help out friends and family where I could, maybe set up a foundation to help others, after it was invested so I would be taken care of for the rest of my life. BUT I wouldn't spend anything on me short of buying new kitchen cookware because that'd be fun for me... I wouldn't go crazy b ecause I know that money doesn't last forever.

maleficent · 06-13-2005, 01:21 PM

What I think is most disturbing about this story, is the money that was given to the victim's families, was collected from people who were not making 130K a year, and given millions in a settlement. The money given was from every day people eeeking out a living and wanting to do something to help. I'd be beyond pissed off if, and would think five times about donating in the future, if I knew that the money I donated was given to someone who acted so irresponsibly.

diddagirl · 06-13-2005, 04:05 PM

Damn, for someone who didnt want the money, she sure as hell did a good job of spending it.

raeanna74 · 06-13-2005, 04:24 PM

I find it disgusting that she could spend that much money. My goodness, we live comfortably off of less than $26,000 a year and that's counting what I make on the side tax free. Granted we have tight times when the gas bill is high from the cold months but we're not starving and we have a good home. Why does someone feel the need to have a stupid basketball court besides all the other junk in her obviously big backyard??

On the other hand - I can understand the urge that she had to spend. When hubby was hospitalized and in a coma his parents and I went to the store to get a few items that we'd forgotten to pack. I wanted so badly to shop and shop and shop. I enjoy it, it felt good, new things fresh things helped me forget the pain of the potential loss.

The difference between this woman and me is that I left the shopping because I recognized it as self destructive. What would I do if hubby DID die? I needed to save the money to live off of till I found better work. I needed to be frugal. I knew it wasn't what he'd want me to do. Why didn't her "safety" mechanism kick in? Where was her little nagging concience?? This wasn't right for her to do. Those people gave to her to help her. She needed that to provide for her kids. She should have recognized that and invested it first thing so that she wouldn't be tempted. If she didn't have that nagging voice SOMETIME or other between the 500,000 shoes and the basketball court, then she's missing a vital part of being a sensitive human being.

streak_56 · 06-13-2005, 05:28 PM

I think I might try to provide her angle on this. She was given all this money. Shes never seen this much before in her life. Her first and only instinct that she has is to spend. Shes given this large amount that most people would be awestruck. The only thing she could think of was to spend money. It's feeding urges, some people have to spend money, some people have to do drugs, some people have to become alcoholics. She didn't know how to cope with her loss, she turned to stuff that probably would not have helped.

Now, to provided the other prospective. She spent 5 million dollars of other peoples money that was given to her because her husband died. I feel for her, she suffered a loss. I agree that she could've used the money for a better purpose. Her coping will evidentally and has lead to the loss of some very generous peoples money. And for that she will not be forgiven for.

I cannot condone what she has done, she couldn't cope, turned to other means. On the other hand, she used many friends, family and strangers that were generous enough to help out. Hopefully she'll learn something from this other than 'alcohol and drugs are bad to cope with.'

irateplatypus · 06-13-2005, 07:43 PM

this story makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Vincentt · 06-14-2005, 04:34 AM

It wasn't a problem until she was about to run out of money.

I think "being addicting to spending tons of money" is a problem we will not feel sorry for.

"You don't know what it is like having sooo much money that you have to spend it wildly" ........

Seeker · 06-14-2005, 05:16 PM

I'm not so sure this is purely an 'addiction to shopping'.. or a behavioural issue. I think it says something about huge payouts or compensations to people who are grief stricken.

It takes time to work through the emotional turmoil of grief. Sometimes it can take years. Perhaps there should be some thought and investigation into these aspects before compensations are made.

I understand it could get messy in the scheme of things, but I do feel it is something to be considered. Perhaps trust accounts for the victims, with yearly limits until they have been through some counselling and have some control over their grief issues?

dy156 · 06-14-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

this story makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Usually irate is a little extreme, but I have to concur here.

ChistledStone · 06-14-2005, 09:46 PM

To risk sounding like a simple minded eight year old, I am sad that the money did not go to a more deserving or needy person.

rat · 06-14-2005, 11:33 PM

hate to say it, but I've done exactly what this lady did on a smaller scale. I blew through 1000 dollars or so on booze from August to December as I spiraled through depression, alcoholism and grief after my grandfather died. Many times, I spent money on other people so that they'd join me, simply for the companionship of someone other than my memories as I drank.

Grief does really, really strange things to people, especially when death comes unexpectedly quick or out of the blue. It's easy for the rest of us to sit and judge someone if we've never experienced what she's gone through. And for me, it's easy to see how some of the things she did make sense. When was the last time anyone you knew just blew 30 grand to take TWENTY people on a Carribean vacation of their own volition? Or threw 15000 to a migrant worker so they could return to their country, and purchase a home, thereby making things better for their family there? I'm not saying those things make up for the excess, but people that generous are hard to come by these days.

Additionally, I'd like to point out that this woman was not only medicated (can't really get antidepressants without a prescription, which means you have to visit a psychiatrist in the first place) as well as drinking.

I'm not saying what she did was right, or morally reprehensible either. I'm simply saying, as someone who went through similar circumstances (my grandfather died of cancer, yes, but he was reportedly recovering at the time of his death, which hit our family like a bolt of lightning from the blue), and attempted to deal with sudden overwhelming grief in the same fashion, it's an extremely easycycle to fall into.

What I do find overwhelmingly off-putting by this forum and this community of which I've been a part for the past couple years, is the increasing occurence of people posting with an extreme superiority complex, taking potshots at people whom they've never met, whose shoes they've never walked in, and speaking from the vantage of internet anonymity. I find it disgusting, and completely against the published code of conduct of these forums. The entire point of this community is to be one of acceptance, discourse, and making an attempt to understand people from their own perspective not from our own. It's been one of the things I used to truly enjoy about this community, and something that has been alarmingly lacking over the last months I've been lurking. I think a lot of you need to get off your high horses, think before you post, and when in doubt take Hal's advice--don't like what you read, hit the back button rather than making snide remarks.

Know that some of what I say may seem snotty to y'all, but this community has been self-regulating to a good degree for the time I've been here. I'm not claiming to be better than anyone here, just that some of us out here see parts of this community becoming "just another web forum" instead of a special place we enjoy posting.

raeanna74 · 06-15-2005, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat

Additionally, I'd like to point out that this woman was not only medicated (can't really get antidepressants without a prescription, which means you have to visit a psychiatrist in the first place) as well as drinking.

Actually My Dr will hand out an antidepressant fairly easily. After running medical tests and finding no reason for the depression other than previous trama and current stress he wrote a prescription for Zoloft for a friend. I was there with them when he gave it to them. The friend never saw a psychologist, psychiatrist, or anything else.

StanT · 06-15-2005, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat

What I do find overwhelmingly off-putting by this forum and this community of which I've been a part for the past couple years, is the increasing occurence of people posting with an extreme superiority complex, taking potshots at people whom they've never met, whose shoes they've never walked in, and speaking from the vantage of internet anonymity. I find it disgusting, and completely against the published code of conduct of these forums. The entire point of this community is to be one of acceptance, discourse, and making an attempt to understand people from their own perspective not from our own. It's been one of the things I used to truly enjoy about this community, and something that has been alarmingly lacking over the last months I've been lurking. I think a lot of you need to get off your high horses, think before you post, and when in doubt take Hal's advice--don't like what you read, hit the back button rather than making snide remarks.

Know that some of what I say may seem snotty to y'all, but this community has been self-regulating to a good degree for the time I've been here. I'm not claiming to be better than anyone here, just that some of us out here see parts of this community becoming "just another web forum" instead of a special place we enjoy posting.

I'd like to respectfully disagree. When you accept money from a public source, you are subject to public scrutiny and criticism; this forum included. Had she squandered an insurance settlement or inheritance, it would be none of our business. While it is reasonable to expect civility, some situations do not have positive, pleasant solutions.

KingOtter67 · 06-15-2005, 08:16 AM

I think it's a shame.

I also think it illustrates the point that when you just give people large sums of money that they haven't earned that they don't know how to handle it, and have a tendency to misuse it. Look at the history of lottery winners.

And I'm not talking out the side of my mouth either, because I've done the exact same thing, although obviously on a much smaller scale than she.

I really don't understand the comparison to SE Asia Tsunami victims, however.

Cuatela · 06-15-2005, 09:50 AM

This kind of abuse makes me not want to donate money to people. If they have a definite need for something, then I'll buy it for them. But I'm not planning to give money to someone who's already rich. Everyone loses family members. We can't all get millions when they die.

rat · 06-15-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanT

I'd like to respectfully disagree. When you accept money from a public source, you are subject to public scrutiny and criticism; this forum included. Had she squandered an insurance settlement or inheritance, it would be none of our business. While it is reasonable to expect civility, some situations do not have positive, pleasant solutions.

I have no problem with the thread or its subject per se. It's more the off-the-cuff remarks like "dumbass" and such that I have a problem with. This thread is a great example of how some people just label others and move on with their lives, and how others attempt to place themselves in another's shoes and find empathy (note: NOT sympathy) with the subject of the story. Part of the published code of conduct regards not saying anything if you can't contribute in a positive manner to a thread, which more and more, people disregard.

Cynthetiq · 06-15-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat

I have no problem with the thread or its subject per se. It's more the off-the-cuff remarks like "dumbass" and such that I have a problem with. This thread is a great example of how some people just label others and move on with their lives, and how others attempt to place themselves in another's shoes and find empathy (note: NOT sympathy) with the subject of the story. Part of the published code of conduct regards not saying anything if you can't contribute in a positive manner to a thread, which more and more, people disregard.

Actually the way that I do understand what you are talking about is only in those forums where it's specifically specified Exhibition, TB, Artwork, Literature, and the like.

The reasons for those specific ones is because people will not post if they feel they are scrutinized and flamed. It was engineered as such to bring those people out of the woodwork.

You cannot call another member here a dumbass directly, but you can say they had stupid actions, or make it more tactful or respectful. The latter is greatly encouraged.

filtherton · 06-15-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat

I have no problem with the thread or its subject per se. It's more the off-the-cuff remarks like "dumbass" and such that I have a problem with. This thread is a great example of how some people just label others and move on with their lives, and how others attempt to place themselves in another's shoes and find empathy (note: NOT sympathy) with the subject of the story. Part of the published code of conduct regards not saying anything if you can't contribute in a positive manner to a thread, which more and more, people disregard.

I agree. I think there are a certain number of threads that are started not for the purposes of discussion, but from the perspective of "Whoa, check out how fucked up this person is". My personal opinion on such matters is that anyone who lacks the sufficient perspective required to not call a complete stranger a dumbass, is probably at least in some way a dumbass themselves.

I don't care if this lady squandered her money, after all, it was her money. What bothers me is that our government paid out all this money to people in part so they wouldn't sue and bankrupt the airline industry. I don't think the families of the victims deserved one cent of compensation from the government if that same compensation isn't also offered to every other family who loses a loved one suddenly.

rat · 06-15-2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

make it more tactful or respectful. The latter is greatly encouraged.

that's my point. the amount of tact and respect as a whole has to me dropped off significantly in the forums other than those you mentioned as time has gone by. while i'm not necessarily talking about things said directly to other members, but rather concerning other human beings, the point is that to the best of my understanding, Hal created this place to break down barriers to communication, including among others: bias, prejudice, de-humanization, and close-minded insults. Over the last two years, it seems rather to have become (at least in certain parts of the Project) a place not unlike many other webforums (fark, SA, etc.) where members here close ranks against the "outside world" and judge them from afar rather than making an effort to impact them or understand them. It's the exact "Us vs. Them" mentality that the TFP had been a refuge from for many of us, and it's disheartening to see it rising here. In the other (I hazard to say more mature ) parts of the Project (i.e., Trampoline, Members, Exhibition), I don't see it anywhere nearly as much as General Discussion. However, as GD is the gateway to the rest of the more mature areas of the Project, I think it lies within the realm of the other, longer-standing members to exhibit and expect a certain degree of conformity to community standards regarding respect for ALL people, not just those that are members of our little haven.

Just my $.02

roachboy · 06-15-2005, 01:15 PM

grief can provoke strange long-term responses in folk.

i don't see any reason to scoff at this woman--for me, the article was extremely sad.
i don't have any particular criticisms of her or the people around her--i have encountered enough loss in my own life of people very close and very dear to me to know that grief can be a very specific space, a very deep tunnel. sounds to me like she was basically performing dynamics specific to that across the medium that was to "compensate" her for her loss.

there is something absurd in the idea that something like this can be endured and in "exchange" you get handed a huge wad of cash, as if that makes everything better. "i dont want the cash i want my husband back" is not at all an unreasonable response.

i have nothing to say about whether the converse would obtain--that there should have been no cash directed at surviving relatives, etc--because it seems ridiculous.

but i dont understand how anyone, anywhere, would imagine that the cash transfer fixes anything at all in itself...which seems to be the assumption behind many of the dismissive posts above.
maybe cash transfers fix the sense that the wider society should "do something"--but that is not about the survivors, not about what they are or have gone through--it does not cross with anything about being in that position---it is about the emotional requirements of spectators.

but then maybe this is all a function of my own relation to cash--i look at it as like the sewage system in a city--fundamental to the operation of the space--a real problem when the system stops working--but nothing interesting in itself, nothing worth focussing on--infrastructure.

Sweetpea · 06-15-2005, 04:21 PM

people react to "survivor guilt" differently . . .

My question is why didn't her family and friends notice this issue and put the money in a trust for her kid's college and retirement?? Why didn't someone help her with her addictive spending behaviors?

I feel sorry for her tragic loss. but you know what . . . people lose people they love every single day and no one comes to their rescue... am i really supposed to feel sorry for her because people donated to her family and she spent the whole 5 million? give me a break.

Sweetpea

Sweetpea · 06-15-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

There were more than some surviving families that deserved every penny that they got.

This woman doesn't elicit a whole lot of sympathy from me. and shame on her 'friends' for not stopping her from taking passels of people on trips. If she didn't want the blood money, she could have easily donated it to causes that did need it, or set up a foundation to do some good. 500K worth of shoes? Go Away.

His name wasn't one that was familiar to me at Cantor, but knowing the character of a lot of the people who worked there, he'd be appalled at what his wife turned into. Spending millions doesn't bring him back, setting up a foundation helps his memory.

my thoughts exactly. well said.

Sweetpea

maleficent · 06-15-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetpea

My question is why didn't her family and friends notice this issue and put the money in a trust for her kid's college and retirement?? Why didn't someone help her with her addictive spending behaviors?

I asked that question earlier -- her "friends" went to the superbowl and to the islands for close to 100K of the money... (I'm so glad my donations went to something useful

I guess, like lottery winners, she found herself with a whole lot of new friends who were more than happy to help her spend the money...

The smart lottery winners are those who talk to a financial advisor before picking up the check - this woman should have done the same thing...

Seeker · 06-15-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

The smart lottery winners are those who talk to a financial advisor before picking up the check - this woman should have done the same thing...

Would it be useful in these type of situations to make this sort of thing more mandatory for these type of situations?

Like I said earlier.. grief, with this amount of money has got to be a really bad mix. If they are receiving public funds, why not put a bit more regulation into the recipe?

Bagezio2 · 06-15-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Easy to judge her as weak, criticize her and make light of the situation, but how do you know for a fact you would react any differently.

If given money beyond your wildest dreams, how do you know for a fact you wouldn't start spending and lose control?

thats a good point, but then again, I know that if it happened to me I wouldn't go around blaming it on some random disease. I would just admit that my money got the better of me and i screwed up. Now she is going to go try to "help" other chronic shoppers. I am curious as to how...

irateplatypus · 06-15-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dy156

Usually irate is a little extreme, but I have to concur here.

who you callin' extreme? thems fightin words! why i oughtta...

CMH · 06-15-2005, 08:37 PM

"Would it be useful in these type of situations to make this sort of thing more mandatory for these type of situations?"

No thanks! The man already has enough control over my life, I'll spend my money how I please by gawd! This is a free country.

I too was shocked and angered by 911... so I joined the Army to get even. I didn't donate a penny because I knew that most of the people who worked in the WTC were much better off than myself anyway. I've had family die, where's my million bucks?

06-13-2005, 10:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	There were more than some surviving families that deserved every penny that they got. My best friends family (he was single, which immediately made him less desirable on the doling out of money lists) got jack shit, Tom's life insurance (which he had since he was in his early 20s) helped out his family. This woman doesn't elicit a whole lot of sympathy from me. and shame on her 'friends' for not stopping her from taking passels of people on trips. If she didn't want the blood money, she could have easily donated it to causes that did need it, or set up a foundation to do some good. 500K worth of shoes? Go Away. His name wasn't one that was familiar to me at Cantor, but knowing the character of a lot of the people who worked there, he'd be appalled at what his wife turned into. Spending millions doesn't bring him back, setting up a foundation helps his memory. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

06-13-2005, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	That's a sick woman. "I don't want this money. But I will take $500,000 worth of shoes." __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

06-13-2005, 10:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	not impressed. you put the money away and you live with that for the rest of your life... not all at once!!! __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

06-13-2005, 11:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Unfortunately, cases like this come up a lot with HUGE lottery winners also, as documented by the overwhelming numbers of winners who end up filing bankruptcy, have broken marriages, become addicts, and so on. People get more money than they have ever seen or thought of ever having and in a society where possesions mean everything (easy to say they don't but....), they start spending and spending and spending. There is a huge difference between working for something and just recieving it. The majority of people who work hard and make the money over time tend to value it more. (Not all value it more, and not all who recieve money in this way are going to be overspenders.) This is a very common occurence, just this got some publicity because of how she got the money. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-13-2005, 12:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	5 million invested to live off of the interest gives you, conservatively, 200-300 grand for life. Compulsive spending itself is not a psychological disorder, but it is a symptom of bipolar personality disorder, or manic-depression, as is the weight fluctuation and eating/starving cycle. In any case, it's not as if she's out on the streets. She has a house worth a couple of million dollars she can sell, and still not have to work ever again in her life. The interest off of 2 million will give her an income probably similar to what my wife and I make together each year.. Money can't buy happiness, it's true, but it can remove some of the obstacles to happiness. I read a study once that showed that beyond a certain income level, having more money bears no correlation to how happy someone is, and that income level is quite a bit lower than one would expect. At the time, the reported income for a family of 4 that provided the cutoff level was at $29,000 (this was some 11 or 12 years ago, though). Other factors were much more important to happiness. Having a stable source of income, and a satisfying job were much higher on the list, as were being physically and mentally healthy and having stable rewarding social relationships. The reason is that we adjust our expectations to meet our abilities. Buying a Brave and the Bold #28 last year brought me a lot of pleasure. Someone with a seven figure income probably would need something like an Amazing Fantasy #15 to get the same level of pleasure. We adjust expectations going both ways, but the trasition is easier and quicker going up. If you suddenly found yourself making twice the money you do now, it would take a relatively short period of time to adjust what it takes to make you happy to your new income level. It would take longer if you were making half, but you'd adjust going down so long as you didn't dip below the level at which providing for all basic needs and a minimum of luxuries was possible. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

06-13-2005, 09:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Hmm, my dad died from cancer and all we got was $200,000 of debt. I hope everyone who donated money hears about this and realizes that they may have been wasting it. I don't see why the shock value of the manner of death should make one death more worthy of donations to the family than others. If you look at the circumstances, tsunami victims and people dying by the thousands each day in third-world countries probably need your tax write-off more than the family of a bond trader.

06-13-2005, 11:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lead543 Registered User Location: Calgary	At least her kids will get money when they're 18, it'd be horrible for all that money to be donated, they reach college and be too broke to pay for it, because their mother made poor choices. Chronic shopping may be a problem, but sometimes I think people just want a label or a disease to blame for their own mistakes.

06-13-2005, 01:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Nothing to say but "A fool and her money are soon parted"

06-13-2005, 01:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Easy to judge her as weak, criticize her and make light of the situation, but how do you know for a fact you would react any differently. If given money beyond your wildest dreams, how do you know for a fact you wouldn't start spending and lose control? __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-13-2005, 01:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	Money may not buy happiness, but it can make most problems go away. It's really a shame that people will think of her next time there is a need for charity. I also have a hard time with her placing the blame on everyone, but herself. Just once I'd like to see someone say "Damn, I was a moron, it's my own fault".

06-13-2005, 01:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	What I think is most disturbing about this story, is the money that was given to the victim's families, was collected from people who were not making 130K a year, and given millions in a settlement. The money given was from every day people eeeking out a living and wanting to do something to help. I'd be beyond pissed off if, and would think five times about donating in the future, if I knew that the money I donated was given to someone who acted so irresponsibly. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

06-13-2005, 04:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
diddagirl Addict Location: Calgary, AB	Damn, for someone who didnt want the money, she sure as hell did a good job of spending it. __________________ "Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done." -Matthew Arnold

06-13-2005, 04:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	I find it disgusting that she could spend that much money. My goodness, we live comfortably off of less than $26,000 a year and that's counting what I make on the side tax free. Granted we have tight times when the gas bill is high from the cold months but we're not starving and we have a good home. Why does someone feel the need to have a stupid basketball court besides all the other junk in her obviously big backyard?? On the other hand - I can understand the urge that she had to spend. When hubby was hospitalized and in a coma his parents and I went to the store to get a few items that we'd forgotten to pack. I wanted so badly to shop and shop and shop. I enjoy it, it felt good, new things fresh things helped me forget the pain of the potential loss. The difference between this woman and me is that I left the shopping because I recognized it as self destructive. What would I do if hubby DID die? I needed to save the money to live off of till I found better work. I needed to be frugal. I knew it wasn't what he'd want me to do. Why didn't her "safety" mechanism kick in? Where was her little nagging concience?? This wasn't right for her to do. Those people gave to her to help her. She needed that to provide for her kids. She should have recognized that and invested it first thing so that she wouldn't be tempted. If she didn't have that nagging voice SOMETIME or other between the 500,000 shoes and the basketball court, then she's missing a vital part of being a sensitive human being. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-13-2005, 05:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	I think I might try to provide her angle on this. She was given all this money. Shes never seen this much before in her life. Her first and only instinct that she has is to spend. Shes given this large amount that most people would be awestruck. The only thing she could think of was to spend money. It's feeding urges, some people have to spend money, some people have to do drugs, some people have to become alcoholics. She didn't know how to cope with her loss, she turned to stuff that probably would not have helped. Now, to provided the other prospective. She spent 5 million dollars of other peoples money that was given to her because her husband died. I feel for her, she suffered a loss. I agree that she could've used the money for a better purpose. Her coping will evidentally and has lead to the loss of some very generous peoples money. And for that she will not be forgiven for. I cannot condone what she has done, she couldn't cope, turned to other means. On the other hand, she used many friends, family and strangers that were generous enough to help out. Hopefully she'll learn something from this other than 'alcohol and drugs are bad to cope with.'

06-13-2005, 07:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	this story makes me feel sick to my stomach. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

06-14-2005, 04:34 AM	#20 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	It wasn't a problem until she was about to run out of money. I think "being addicting to spending tons of money" is a problem we will not feel sorry for. "You don't know what it is like having sooo much money that you have to spend it wildly" ........ __________________ .

06-14-2005, 05:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
Seeker Getting Clearer Location: with spirit	I'm not so sure this is purely an 'addiction to shopping'.. or a behavioural issue. I think it says something about huge payouts or compensations to people who are grief stricken. It takes time to work through the emotional turmoil of grief. Sometimes it can take years. Perhaps there should be some thought and investigation into these aspects before compensations are made. I understand it could get messy in the scheme of things, but I do feel it is something to be considered. Perhaps trust accounts for the victims, with yearly limits until they have been through some counselling and have some control over their grief issues? __________________ *To those who wander but who are not lost...* ~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

06-14-2005, 09:46 PM	#23 (permalink)
ChistledStone Crazy Location: Australia	To risk sounding like a simple minded eight year old, I am sad that the money did not go to a more deserving or needy person. __________________ A.minor.fall.then.a.major.lift

06-15-2005, 08:16 AM	#27 (permalink)
KingOtter67 Upright	I think it's a shame. I also think it illustrates the point that when you just give people large sums of money that they haven't earned that they don't know how to handle it, and have a tendency to misuse it. Look at the history of lottery winners. And I'm not talking out the side of my mouth either, because I've done the exact same thing, although obviously on a much smaller scale than she. I really don't understand the comparison to SE Asia Tsunami victims, however. __________________ KingOtter You can't push on a rope.

06-15-2005, 09:50 AM	#28 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	This kind of abuse makes me not want to donate money to people. If they have a definite need for something, then I'll buy it for them. But I'm not planning to give money to someone who's already rich. Everyone loses family members. We can't all get millions when they die. __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

06-15-2005, 01:15 PM	#33 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	grief can provoke strange long-term responses in folk. i don't see any reason to scoff at this woman--for me, the article was extremely sad. i don't have any particular criticisms of her or the people around her--i have encountered enough loss in my own life of people very close and very dear to me to know that grief can be a very specific space, a very deep tunnel. sounds to me like she was basically performing dynamics specific to that across the medium that was to "compensate" her for her loss. there is something absurd in the idea that something like this can be endured and in "exchange" you get handed a huge wad of cash, as if that makes everything better. "i dont want the cash i want my husband back" is not at all an unreasonable response. i have nothing to say about whether the converse would obtain--that there should have been no cash directed at surviving relatives, etc--because it seems ridiculous. but i dont understand how anyone, anywhere, would imagine that the cash transfer fixes anything at all in itself...which seems to be the assumption behind many of the dismissive posts above. maybe cash transfers fix the sense that the wider society should "do something"--but that is not about the survivors, not about what they are or have gone through--it does not cross with anything about being in that position---it is about the emotional requirements of spectators. but then maybe this is all a function of my own relation to cash--i look at it as like the sewage system in a city--fundamental to the operation of the space--a real problem when the system stops working--but nothing interesting in itself, nothing worth focussing on--infrastructure. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

06-15-2005, 04:21 PM	#34 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	people react to "survivor guilt" differently . . . My question is why didn't her family and friends notice this issue and put the money in a trust for her kid's college and retirement?? Why didn't someone help her with her addictive spending behaviors? I feel sorry for her tragic loss. but you know what . . . people lose people they love every single day and no one comes to their rescue... am i really supposed to feel sorry for her because people donated to her family and she spent the whole 5 million? give me a break. Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

06-15-2005, 08:37 PM	#40 (permalink)
CMH Upright	"Would it be useful in these type of situations to make this sort of thing more mandatory for these type of situations?" No thanks! The man already has enough control over my life, I'll spend my money how I please by gawd! This is a free country. I too was shocked and angered by 911... so I joined the Army to get even. I didn't donate a penny because I knew that most of the people who worked in the WTC were much better off than myself anyway. I've had family die, where's my million bucks?