james t kirk

I am the proud owner of two used felines that came into my life about a year and a half ago.

One is 12 and is my ex's cat. She's (the cat) is very affectionate, lovie, and makes me laugh with her behaviour. She came to stay with me cause my ex just didn't want her anymore and was going to get rid of her (aka, put her down) Anyway, she's happy to be with me, and I am happy she is here

The other cat is my dad's cat whom I inheritted when my father passed away last april. She's very cat like, and a bit on the nasty side, but always good for a laugh.

Anyhoo, the older one developed an ongoing sinus problem that caused her to sniffle constantly, especially at night, so I took her to the vet to get her checked out. While there, the vet asks me what I feed her.

I answer, Diet Eukanuba in the morning (she's a little on the chubby side) and tuna in the evening. (You have never seen a cat that loves tuna so much. Normally she is a silent cat, but crack open a can of clover leaf and she will sing at the top of her lungs for it.)

Anyway, the vet says to me, "oh my no, a cat needs a special diet, you should be feeding her Hills G/D (geriatric diet - I don't think of my cat as being a geriatric.) Anyway, she says, "we sell Hills and it's the best on the market, only available from vets, blah blah blah.) I tell her that I don't know if I believe in the quality of cat and dog food from a factory that it's all probably the worst crap going. She tells me, "Oh no, I can assure you that they are the best out there, the recipe is designed by vets" yadda yadda yadda.

I dunno.

I must admit, the Eukanuba is pretty easy to feed her in the morning, you just pour a scooop out of the bag and off you go.

Well, my cat had a tarter build up on her back top teeth which the vet said was a result of (guess what) not feeding her the food that they sell.

"Well, how much to clean her teeth I ask"

The vet comes back with a quote of $865.00 to $1,100 based on what they have to do (blood work, anti-biotics, anethesia, scraping, polishing, pulling teeth if necessary, etc. etc. etc.

I could see her teeth were tartered up and her gums red, so what the hell, I love my cat, get it done.

They start with the blood work to make sure that she doesn' t have anything.

A few days later the vet calls me up to tell me that my favourite cat has kidney problems that her Urea level is high as is creatine (spelling), etc. etc. and that they will have to use a special anesthetic on her now that isn't so hard on her kidneys. She also now tells me that I have to put my cat on narcotics for the rest of her life, and by the way, I should be feeding her "Hills K/D" (kidney disease). Seems a lot of cats get kidney disease these days.

By now I am starting to spin, so I call a friend of mine who is an animal NUT and has a good friend who is a vet, who is according to my friend one of the best vets she has ever met in life. (My friend is an animal NUT, so if anyone knows her vets, it's my friend.)

Anyway, my friend listens to my case and gets me to fax the lab results to the other vet. I make an appointment to take my cat to see this lady.

I meet with the second vet and she talks to me (and talks to my cat) for 2 hours at her farm. (She has 25 or so horses on her farm, 4 or 5 cats, and 4 or 5 dogs, and a pile of chickens rescued from the local university (the chickens are pets too.)

Anyway, I am quite impressed with this second vet. She seems to really have a way with animals. (My friend claims that she can communicate with them, and I don't doubt it.) Anyway, we talk about my cat, her problems, including her teeth. She opens the cat's mouth and picks the tarter off of my cat's teeth with her finger nail. At first I thought she pulled out her back teeth, but no, she just pulled off the tarter. (the cat didn't appreciate that, but hey, I don't like the dentist either.)

The verdict was that her teeth are fine, her gums are a bit red, but just put a little hydrogen peroxide on her gums for a week or so with a Q tip and she will be fine.

For this 2 hour consult, and fixing my cat's teeth, the bill was $48.00

My vet wanted $865.00 to $1,100.00

But that's not the point of my diatribe.

The point is that this 2'nd vet told me that my cat's kidney problems stem from her diet of cat food over the years. She told me that all processed animal foods that are widely available are just complete utter poison for your animal. The pet food industry is part of the human food chain; it is there simply to provide a market for the crap that they can't sell you or I. Doesn't matter how they bag it or market it, it's all poison. First off, the bulk of the processed pet food is just filler, usually grains, etc which cats and dogs aren't supposed to eat. Cats and dogs are carnivores. Secondly, everything is laced with perservatives and chemicals that are very bad for the life of your pet. Third, the meat that they use is the worst of the worst of the worst. Forth, there is virtually no enforcement of any sort of minimal quality in pet food production.

Lastly, she said to me, "How much did they want for that bag of Hills K/D food?"

I said around 30 bucks.

"Ok, she says, that means that the vet probably buys it for $15.00.

Add in all the middle men, and such, the bag of cat food probably costs about $1.00 to make

It was a very convincing arguement.

Capped off with the question, "would you eat cat food?"

Anyway, I was doing some googling on the pet food industry and I have found that there is a considerable amount of information on processed pet food out there.

It's interesting to contrast what the animal food manufacturers say verses those who are trying to expose the pet food industry for what it is.

Don't get me wrong, I am not some tree hugger walking around in Birkenstocks, but there is a lot of sense to my second vet's arguement. It makes me sad to think that my cat's problems are the result of her diet.

Anyway, the second vet gave me a recipe for cooking my own cat food which if anyone is interested, I will post.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that if there are animal lovers out there, and I am sure that there are, you may want to re-think using processed animal feeds. You will be poisoning your pet. Of that I am convinced.

Here's a link I found to an interesting site that makes some good points..

http://www.wholisticanimal.com/processedpetfood.html

canuckguy

ah sorry to hear about the cats, there like family eh! you find yourself faced with, how much is going to cost/the animals quality of life after....etc my inlaws dog had cancer and required two or three operations. i think i remember it was 8 grand or something like that, crazy.

Astrocloud

I also found a good vet shortly before my cat died. He was scheduled to go in for more tests the week after he passed away. He also had a tarter problem (solution -brush his teeth).

Good luck with your kitty and post a picture of him here if you have it.

*Nikki*

Being that I have worked at a vet for four years everything your vet told you is true. I have fed my cats only Hills Prescription food and I have never had a problem with them. The food is great and high quality and they make a ton of different kinds to deal with different health problems.

Being that your cat had kidney problems which A LOT of older cats do, in fact I believe this to be the number one killer of felines, she should be on a special diet.

Animals do also have dental problems much like our own and the teeth cleaning and anibiotics for the gum infection (much like gingivitis) can be very helpful. The price that you were quoted even with the special anestesia was WAY to high. We do that same procedure at the clinic I worked at and even with a better anestesia and bloodwork you are looking at a 100 bucks max. Now if teeth needed to be pulled you might add on another 25 bucks. I would suggest dropping that vet if nothing else for the prices.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me as I know quite a lot about cats and their health.

MSD

I've always fed my cat Fancy Feast wet food daily, and he doesn't seem to have any problems. Being the adventurous person I am, I once tried a few bits of the grilled turkey cat food that he loves so much, and although the gravy was a bit salty for my taste, I think that I'd be able to eat it for a couple weeks in a bomb shelter if it came down to that. Upon close examination, the chunks in the cat food are identifiable as chopped up meat and not some sort of abomination like SPAM.

I'm interested in how he'd react to home-cooked food, as he absolutely loves the bits of chicken, pork, steak, and burger that I give him when I cook something (perhaps I spoil him a little bit when I give him a few cat-bite-sized chunks of filet mignon, but I don't mind sharing.) He's also been known to pounce on dropped french fries before I can pick them up, which isn't too bad considering it's only one fry on rare occasions and his cholesterol is far down in the healthy range.

It's interesting to hear people who aren't trying to sell me the stuff that they only feed their pets the expensive food, and I'll probably look into it.

The Phenomenon

Eukanuba (Iams is their cat brand) and Hills is damn good food. Trust me on this, I have a lot of cats.

A lot of the stuff you buy in the supermarket is total crap, but Hills and Iams IS actually the best you can buy for your cat.

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james t kirk

Dont' get me wrong, I am not slagging you, but how do you KNOW that the quality of Hills is great?

Just cause you sell it and their marketing people tell you?

Again, not harassing you, but unless you have been to the factory where they make their product and actually seen with your own eyes the ingredients that go into the mix, you don't really KNOW what they are puttting in there.

Hills is owned by Colgate Palmolive. They (Colgate) are one of biggest corporations in the world and are only interested in 3 things. 1. Profit, 2. Increasing sales, 3. Decreasing costs hence leading to higher profit (see item 1.)

Just cause someone tells you that it's good quality, doesn't mean that it is.

If you do a google search on "Hills Pet food quality" you will find several sites that would disagree with Hills or any other manufactured pet food being anything but crap.

MexicanOnABike

i'd like to see this!! my parents own a cat which i like and if he dies, it would suck. i wouldnt mind feeding him something better than dry bag food.

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MexicanOnABike

another question i had from this: if the food is sooo great, why isnt it in pet stores and grocery stores like the other animal food? seems like it's all bullshit.

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james t kirk

I can not emphasize how bad manufactured pet food is for your pet.

Don't be a victim of marketing.

Here is a crop from a website detailing the poison that is processed pet food.

"Harmful chemicals and preservatives (even when they state preserve free) they are added to both wet and dry food.( Eg Iams, Eukanumbas, Hills ) The added sodium nitrite, a colouring agent and preservative and potential carcinogen, is a common additive.

Other preservatives include ethoxyquin(an insecticide that has been linked to liver cancer) and BHA and BHT, chemicals also suspected of causing cancer. The added salt and sugar in dry and tin food causes a fast build up of tooth plaque. The average dog can consume as much as 26 pounds of preservatives every year from eating commercial dog foods.

Recent independent studies have shown processed foods to be a factor in increasing numbers of pets suffering from cancer, arthritis, obesity, dental disease and heart disease. Dull or unhealthy coats are a common problem with cats and dogs and poor diet is usually the cause, according to many veterinarians and breeders.

The AAFCO nutrient profiles may play a role here, in the "balanced" nutritional levels they recommend may be inadequate for an individual animal.
The list of ingredients on that bag of dry pet food or can of "meat" can mask the toxic horrors behind innocuous-sounding phrases such as "meat meal," "bone meal," and "meat by-products." It's the substances you don't know about in that can of pet food that may sicken or even kill your pet.
It is estimated that up to two million companion animals suffer from food allergies.

USA Vet Dr Plechner, believes that the commercial pet foods are a primary cause and can contribute to a host of health problems. "Among pets, there is a widespread intolerance of commercial foods," he states. "This rejection can show up either as violent sickness or chronic health problems.
It often triggers a hypersensitivity and overreaction to flea and insect bites, pollens, soaps, sprays and environmental contaminants."Feline urological syndrome, a chronic condition similar to cystitis in humans (characterized by frequent urination with blood in the urine), is an increasingly common and potentially fatal illness in cats.
It has been linked to elevated levels of ash and phosphorus(causing kidney dysfunction), two substances commonly found in commercial pet foods.

High iodine levels are seen as a contributing factor for thyroid tumors in cats. "New diseases are being discovered that are linked to '100% complete' diets," states Dr Wysong.
These include "polymyopathy (a muscle disorder) from low potassium levels, dilated cardiomyopathy (heart muscle disorder) from low taurine levels, arthritic and skin diseases from acid/base and zinc malnutrition, and chronic eczema from essential fatty acid malnutrition," he reports.

Given the high possibility that your favourite pet foods may be slowly poisoning your cat or dog, it's crucial that you think about this and take a positive action in providing the best diet for your pets.

Australian Veterinarian.
Dr.Tom Lonsdale believes that processed diets are known to be responsible for periodontal or gum disease which affects more than 86% of domestic cats and dogs before the age of 2. Foul breath odours is an early sign suggesting that more severe heart, liver and kidney disease may follow. Basically it is a diet induced AIDs of pets is just as nasty as HIV AIDS in humans.
Dr Lonsdale and other concerned veterinarians continue their campaign for the banning of what they consider to be misleading pet food industry advertising, "Pet owners should be informed that feeding processed pet foods is likely to lead to ill health, suffering and unnecessary vetbills.
Dr. Lonsdale DVM - Riverstone Veterinary Hospital. NSW.

Homemade pet food is not only free of such harmful additives, but has the added benefit of containing natural remedies for common ailments. Garlic for example, contains sulfur which acts as a natural flea repellent. The acidity of raw meat creates an environment in which mucous in which worms thrive disappear. Since the worms cannot survive in a healthy body, homemade pet food has the added advantage of increasing the animal's vitality and subsequently reducing veterinarian bills for the owner. "

Cartuni

I read the link, and it seems that it would not be difficult to prepare your own cat/dog food. Fresh veggies are cheap and some of the meat/chicken/fish parts they listed are not expensive either.

Just today I was thinking about adopting a kitten, so this has been a very informative post for me. Thanks for taking the time, James. Would you post the recipe, please?

james t kirk

As the second vet explained to me:

Cats are carnivores, but they still need vitamins and minerals.

The base ingredient is chicken or oily fish.

A normal healthy cat needs 80% meat and 20% veggies.

A cat with Kidney disease (my cat) needs a ratio of 65% meat and 35% veggies.

I cook the food because both my cats are not used to raw food.

Ingredients

Chicken legs
Beans (green or yellow String Beans)
Cauliflower (spelling)
Brocolli (spelling)
Carrots
Parsley (Cats need chlorphyl in their diet hence why you see them eating grass)
Peas
Fish Oil (cod liver oil)
Egg

Essentially you are making Chicken or Fish soup.

I take the chicken legs and add the veggies and boil it till the chicken is done. Boil everything together so that it all tastes like chicken.

Once cooked, everything goes in a food processor (no bones obviously) and I puree it into a pulp.

Add a little broth and a few egg yolks in a big tupperware bowl and mix it all up into a paste.

Store it in the fridge in the tupperware.

To the daily serving I add a wee bit of Cod liver oil.

Because of the kidney disease that my cat has, she gets a bit of concentrated cranberry powder and calcium citrate available at the local pharmacy in capsul form which I pull apart and add to the food on a daily basis. About 100 mg. of each.

Both of my cats like this mix. They like it more when I have cooked the veggies with the chicken. Initially I had them separate but neither was as enthusiastic. (Probably because they could taste the veggies.) Cooking it all together makes it all taste like chicken.

To the one cat's food I add a bit of tuna because she loves it so much and the vet said that tuna is good too, as are sardines and mackeral.

That's it.

You know what went into the cat's food, it's good quality, and if you are hungry at night you can make yourself a sandwich too.

james t kirk

I have a photo but not sure how to post it.

james t kirk

Here's another very interesting site about what goes into pet food.

Link to entire article:

http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm

Excerpt:

Plump whole chickens, choice cuts of beef, fresh grains, and all the wholesome nutrition your dog or cat will ever need.

These are the images pet food manufacturers promulgate through the media and advertising. This is what the $11 billion per year U.S. pet food industry wants consumers to believe they are buying when they purchase their products.

This report explores the differences between what consumers think they are buying and what they are actually getting. It focuses in very general terms on the most visible name brands -- the pet food labels that are mass-distributed to supermarkets and discount stores -- but there are many highly respected brands that may be guilty of the same offenses.

What most consumers don't know is that the pet food industry is an extension of the human food and agriculture industries. Pet food provides a market for slaughterhouse offal, grains considered "unfit for human consumption," and similar waste products to be turned into profit. This waste includes intestines, udders, esophagi, and possibly diseased and cancerous animal parts.

Three of the five major pet food companies in the United States are subsidiaries of major multinational companies: Nestlé (Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, and Ralston Purina products such as Dog Chow, ProPlan, and Purina One), Heinz (9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe), Colgate-Palmolive (Hill's Science Diet Pet Food). Other leading companies include Procter & Gamble (Eukanuba and Iams), Mars (Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba, Waltham's), and Nutro. From a business standpoint, multinational companies owning pet food manufacturing companies is an ideal relationship. The multinationals have increased bulk-purchasing power; those that make human food products have a captive market in which to capitalize on their waste products, and pet food divisions have a more reliable capital base and, in many cases, a convenient source of ingredients.

james t kirk

While I admire your sense of adventure in eating the cat food yourself, I think myself, I will take a pass.

By the way however, my second vet says that beef is not permissable in older cats with kidney problems. Too much something or other acid. But you are probably better feeding him table scraps than cat food.

*Nikki*

I know the food is good food because I have worked with it first hand for years. I have seen animals benefit from the prescription formulas. My own cats had prior urinary problems before starting on the diet. They no longer do. The content of the food is more specialized then your generic pet store brands THAT is why it is only avaliable through a vet. Also since it helps treat a lot of health problems that can only be diagnosed by a vet and not your average pet owner, it needs to be only avaliable there. That way people who have a cat in kidney failure aren't feeding it a diet for urinary tract health and so on and so forth.

Yes, like all of us, I only know what the manufactorer tells me. I can't go to the plant and see the actual process that goes into making the product. BUT I can see the results on my own pets and lots of others I have worked with. This is my proof.

Furthermore I don't work for Hill's or Colgate so I have no reason to back their product, I recieve no sort of comission for doing so. Rather I am speaking from first hand experience.

I mean if you start doubting lables on products then you could go into a huge investigation into every product we ourselves consume.

I think you should not bad mouth a product you have not even tried or seen the results of.

Sage

At the risk of sounding like a priss, personally ANYTHING that you eat that is fresh is going to be better for you than things that are not. Anything that you eat that has come into contact with insectisides(sp), pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, etc is going to mess with your body in some way, and that will extend to your pets as well. Sure, super avaliable-by-vet-only pet food is probably going to be better for you, just like making your own macaroni is probably better for you than getting the stuff in the blue box. However, the best thing would be making your own pasta out of organic flour, filtered water, and fresh eggs, and then melting in organic cheese. So, it stands to reason that with your pets, the best thing you could do for them is fix them their own food. I don't have a pet, but this thread will make me think thrice about what I will feed my potential pets in the future.

Gatorade says it's so good for you, but it's really just full of sugar. Pet food says it's good for your pet, who knows what's really in it?



oh, and spam really is the good parts of the pig- none of the nasty stuff. It's ham, really.

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feelgood

I never feed my cat. Hell, there's a whole freakin field full of gophers and she hunts gophers helluva better than I can! The only problem is that she always takes the dead gophers and eats it on the deck, leaving guts behind. I should've taught her how to clean after herself...

Although, the winter is another story. I feed her cat food but I also let her have some of the left overs from dinner.

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JStrider

hey whats wrong with wearing birkenstocks... i wear birkenstocks... their just really comfortable and they last forever... and i'm not a tree hugger...


ive eaten dog food before... not very good... i dont see how they like it...


doesnt surprise me that most of them aren't very good for the animal... its like really hard crunch bread... i probably wouldnt be healthy if i ate bread all the time

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ryfo

I feed my cat a little of everything, dry cat food, wet cat food(can) raw meat and sooked stews and gravy She has got clean teeth and seems to have a glossy coat and has heaps of energy (especially around 2.00am) Everything in moderation, but I get suspicious about pet food that is more xpensive than what I feed the 2 legged family.

Grasshopper Green

I don't have a cat (right now), but I will keep this in mind for the future. Thanks for posting, james.

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raeanna74

My parents neighbor is a large animal vet and works for the government. He was one of the veterinarians set over during the mad cow disease scare overseas. He is the first person that my parents go to for any advice on their pets.

My parents poodle had bad tarter on their teeth - a REAL problem for toy poodles - the tarter builds up easily. We were shown how to clean it off ourselves. It would pick off easily with a dental pick and sometime come off in large flakes. Cleaning your cats teeth wouldn't have needed all that special costs that they were charging.

My parents dog was put to sleep last year because she was too old. She had congestiv heart failure, asthma, was going blind, deaf, and incontinent. She was nearly 19 years old. Toward the end she required a special diet that wasn't has hard to chew. She needed this for much the same reason as an elderly person who's health is failing.

My parents cat is nearly 20 years old. She is arthritic but otherwise has very few health problems. For most of her life she was fed dry cat food alternated occaisionally with canned or table food. Now she doesn't eat the hard dry food as well and by our neighbors suggestion eats table food. Not just scraped off their plates but prepared for her specifically. I'm not sure what all they feed her but I know some of it is tuna or chicken. She is a happy and as health a cat as you can find at almost 20 yrs old.

Our cat is only 2 and mostly eats dry cat food. She regularly gets bits of real meat and plenty of tuna - he absolute favorite. She can be sound asleep somewhere in the house and ignoring the TV and kids screaming but I get out the can opener and start cranking it around a tuna can and she's there in seconds. Her vet also cares for large animals. He barely charged more than $150 for bloodwork, putting her to sleep, declawing, neuturing, and giving her her shots when we first got her. I cannot understand how $800something could be anywhere a reasonable cost for cleaning teeth. Her vet also told me that any dry food is fine - expensive often doesn't mean better. He did suggest that she at least eat some dry food because the hard chewing helps keep the tarter off her teeth. He did have food to sell in his office but said nothing to me about it. She was a kitten after all and he had kitten food there. His purpose was to ensure the health of my cat not make money. I found him by a recommendation.

It's sad that someone would use the health of an animal and the love of a pet owner as a way to make such exhorbitant money. I realize that vets need to make money to live off of but charging that much and pushing something by being dishonest is unfair and despicable in my opinion. Even if he truely believed what the company told him why would he repeat it without researching it to prove it's accuracy? That's not responsible.

Thanks for the recipie. Catrina thanks you.

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Charlatan

Kirk...

Everything I've ever read about the pet food industry is just plain scary. It is a totally unregulated industry.

We've had our dog on the BARF diet Bone And Raw Food) but have also used an organic, all natural kibble we purchsed from the pet store on the Danforth... I can't remember the name now but they have two brands. One is from the US and other is from Germany (I think).

My dog and cat have little to no tarter build up on their teeth...

A study I read, showed that large breed dogs like Danes and Wolf Hounds live to about 9 years old in North America but live to about 15+ in Europe. The difference was the food we feed them here. It's mostly garbage.

My old neighbours bred wolfhounds. They fed them an all natural diet and have never had issues with joint deterioration (that the breed is know for) and most of their dogs live to 13+...


EDIT: just remembered one of the foods: FROMM Family (http://www.frommfamily.com/)... here is a list of other foods, most of which use human grade food: http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/d...sp?dept_id=130

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Marvelous Marv

JTK...

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to try to do a little research myself.

I appreciate all the time you took to post.

Ustwo

Having had WAY to many dogs and cats growing up as a kid, I knew most petfood was crap.

We did feed the dogs Science Diet (this was 20 years ago or so) and never had any problems and they seemed to do fine. Sometimes we might run out and had to get them the popular commerical brands for a few days, and they would often have issues.

On the other hand I wouldn't use the 'would you eat it' argument. Dogs eat their own crap.

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Demeter

As with people food, unprocessed fresh food is better than processed. Everyone will have different experiences with different foods, cats & dogs are no exception. I guess the point is to be observant of your pets health & be prepared to ask some questions, and do some research.
I feed my cat Iams, which I can get at the local Safeway. I suppliment with nibbles of whatever I have that he seems interested in (oddly enough, he loves fresh tomato & apples) and the odd small can of wet food. He's fine, healthy & glossy. But if I found his health was an issue due to his diet, I would change it.

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Janey

I opened up and payed more for Iams for my (new ) kitten as well. this after wtching the latest shopping Bags (consumer report show) episode wich compared it to several other brands.

I am hopping that this is a high quality food that will not jeapardize Tipper's health.

Squishor

I've noticed that, while our cats seem to crave "junk food" (i.e. the boxes of cheap kibble like Meow Mix or Nine Lives), on the occasions when we've gone out and got them a box they tend to puke it up a lot more. I think a lot of horrible stuff goes into pet food. I did some research on tallow factories once, after finding out it was in the realm of possibility I might have to go to one for my job, and it was alarming to learn not only how awful they are but that the products can end up inside our pets and ourselves.

Janey, I think Iams has been accused of some animal experimentation and other abuses, while Nutro is regarded as the more acceptable alternative.

wolf

I had 6 cats, they all lived over 20 years.

Diet = Friskies

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astrahl

I think the best thing is to look at what researchers feed the cats they work on. I know, animals in research, but it should give you a good idea of what to look for. Researchers want the healthiest animals they can get and they will be feeding them a food formulated to be balanced and healthy.
For dogs, I know most labs use purina dog chow. Thats what I feed my little furry kids and they are in excellent health.
I think the difference comes in if your pets are ill. If they need a special diet for kidney, liver or heart problems, etc...maybe then the difference brands offer something better.

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james t kirk

Labs want healthy animals for a month or two before they kill the animal. No offense, but they could care less about what they feed their experiments.




The vet I met with stated that what is causing the chronic diseases in animals is the food we are feeding them.

I.e. the food is MAKING them ill, not the other way round, they get ill so they need a special diet.

james t kirk

Iams is crap.

Same as all the rest, just dressed up a bit.

The vet I met with who is an expert in animal nutrition stated that there are only 2 places in Ontario that supply the pet food industry with animal waste required to manufacture the pet food. It's all the same.

Ustwo

Can't speak for Canada but in the US it is NOT all the same. I know cause I had to shovel the shit from many many dogs.

Science diet was always the best for us for large dogs.

As for the chronic diseases its a 'bit' sweeping to blame it all on the food. I know with many breeds of dogs its not the food but the inbreeding which is the problem. We used to have afghan hounds before they became popular in the early 80's. They lived to 13+ years then which is quite good for such a large dog. After they became 'the' dog to have the average life span was about 8 years.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

braisler

Not true. I work in scientific research and that is simply not true.

Not only are many of the scientists working with and on these animals sensitive to their lives and quality of life, but there are oversight committees that are dedicated to making sure that animals, no matter the type or for how long they are research subject, are cared for. IACUCs - Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees represent a cross section of science, medical and community members.

Many experiments with longer lived animals care for those animals for many years. So, no offense, but your statement is simply not true.

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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SiN

Thank you for starting this thread, it's quite valid for us cat lovers

years ago, i made homemade cat food for my cats. they liked it, and i felt good about doing it.

i've since gotten lazy and busy, and have relied on the convenience of dried food
(different cats too, btw).

this topic is soon to be more relevant to me, as i will be reunited with my 2 cats that have been living with my mom.

i know she feeds them expensive food from the vet, not sure what kind, not sure what it was for either. kidneys or urinary something or other. .. i'm sure i'll find out once i am there.

anyways, i'll need to figure out how/what to feed them, to make everybody happy and sane.

i'm happy to see that other people actually care about this topic.

mreow!

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