Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-06-2005, 03:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
Breathe Like a Fish

http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/310505_tech.htm
Quote:
LIKE A FISH –
REVOLUTIONARY UNDERWATER BREATHING SYSTEM

- Iddo Genuth for IsraCast -

An Israeli Inventor has developed a breathing apparatus that will allow breathing underwater without the assistance of oxygen tanks. This new invention will use the relatively small amounts of air that already exist in water to supply oxygen to both scuba divers and submarines. The invention has already captured the interest of most major diving manufacturers as well as the Israeli Navy.

The idea of breathing underwater without cumbersome oxygen tanks has been the dream of science fiction writers for many years. In George Lucas’ movie "The Phantom Menace", Obi-Wan whips out a little Jedi underwater breathing apparatus and dives in. As things tend to happen in our world, yesterday’s science fiction has turned into today's science fact due to one Israeli inventor with a dream.

There are a number of limitations to the existing oxygen tank underwater breathing method. The first is the amount of time a diver can stay underwater, which is the result of the oxygen tank capacity. Another limitation is the dependence on oxygen refueling facilities near the diving site which are costly to operate and are used to compress the gas into the tanks which might be dangerous if not handled properly. The final problem has to do with the actual use of oxygen tanks underwater. When these tanks are in use they empty out and change the balance of the diver in the water.

Engineers have tried to overcome these limitations for many years now. Nuclear submarines and the international space station use systems that generate Oxygen from water by performing 'Electrolysis', which is chemical separation of Oxygen from Hydrogen. These systems require very large amounts of energy to operate. For this reason, smaller, diesel fueled submarines cannot use these systems and are required to resurface to re-supply their oxygen tanks every so often. Divers can't even consider carrying such large machines not to mention supplying them with energy. To overcome this limitation an Israeli inventor, Alon Bodner, turned to fish.
Fish do not perform chemical separation of oxygen from water; instead they use the dissolved air that exists in the water in order to breathe. In the ocean the wind, waves and underwater currents help spread small amounts of air inside the water. Studies have shown that in a depth of 200m below the sea there is still about 1.5% of dissolved air. This might not sound like much but it is enough to allow both small and large fish to breathe comfortably underwater. Bodner’s idea was to create an artificial system that will mimic the way fish use the air in the water thus allowing both smaller submarines and divers to get rid of the large, cumbersome oxygen tanks.



The general structure of the system

The system developed by Bodner uses a well known physical law called the "Henry Law" which describes gas absorption in liquids. This law states that the amount of gas that can be dissolved in a liquid body is proportional to the pressure on the liquid body. The law works in both directions – lowering the pressure will release more gas out of the liquid. This is done by a centrifuge which rotates rapidly thus creating under pressure inside a small sealed chamber containing sea water. The system will be powered by rechargeable batteries. Calculations showed that a one kilo Lithium battery can provide a diver with about one hour of diving time.

Bodner has already built and tested a laboratory model and he is on the path to building a full-scale prototype. Patents for the invention have already been granted in Europe and a similar one is currently pending examination in the U.S. Meetings have already been held with most major diving manufacturers as well as with the Israeli Navy. Initial financial support for the project has been given by Israel Ministry of Industry and Commerce and Bodner is currently looking for private investors to help complete his project.

If everything goes according to plan, in a few years the new tankless breathing system will be operational and will be attached to a diver in the form of a vest that will enable him to stay underwater for a period of many hours.
It sounds like this system will be self-sustaining except for a power source. Just swap out the battery, and you're good to go for another hour. Awesome.

Last edited by Slavakion; 06-07-2005 at 05:27 PM..
Slavakion is offline  
Old 06-06-2005, 03:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
samcol's Avatar
 
Location: Indiana
Wow! this sounds amazing. As a scuba diver myself, I can only imagine the freedom gained by using something like this. This makes a somewhat inaccessable hobby into something anyone can do with almost zero training the way it sounds (as long as it doesn't cost a fortune ). Where do I sign up?
samcol is offline  
Old 06-06-2005, 03:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
Probably 2010. All that's been built is a lab model, which is probably big enough for a lab rat.

I wonder if they can do this in reverse, and keep the CO<sub>2</sub> in my soda from bubbling out?
Slavakion is offline  
Old 06-06-2005, 11:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: cali
cool idea. makes me wonder tho. what happens when a submarine and enough divers use the 'dissolved oxygen' in the water. do fish start to drown because we're using all their oxygen and the currents aren't regenerating it fast enough?
__________________
no man or woman is worth your tears - and the one who is, won't make you cry

question authority, don't ask why, just do it!
slant eyes is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 02:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
Found my way back
 
healer's Avatar
 
Location: South Africa
I was thinking the exact same thing slant eyes. Then again, if this did become an issue I'm sure they'd invent some kind oversize fishtank pump that'll float on the surface and pump air into the water.
healer is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 02:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
d*d
Addict
 
d*d's Avatar
 
Im sure it doesn't work like that, as the oxygen is used up it would be replaced naturally
d*d is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 02:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
Junkie
 
greytone's Avatar
 
There is no way we can use up the O2 in the water. The ocean is a BIG place. Diffusion would lead to very rapid redistribution of the dissolved gases as soon as they are taken out of the water by this system.
__________________
I was there to see beautiful naked women. So was everybody else. It's a common failing.
Robert A Heinlein in "They Do It With Mirrors"
greytone is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 03:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
Too Awesome for Aardvarks
 
stevie667's Avatar
 
Location: Angloland
Woah, lets get things sorted, the breather used in episode one contains LOTS of compressed gas, it doesn't filter it from the water...
Right, now that we've got that little error sorted, cool!
__________________
Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.
stevie667 is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 10:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much
 
Fremen's Avatar
 
Location: left side of my couch, East Texas
Cool idea, but what happens when you need an emergency tank of air on land, hmmm??
Scuba!


__________________
Google
Fremen is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 10:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 10:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
Chicken scratch.
 
Gabbyness's Avatar
 
Location: Japan!!!
This idea rocks.
Gabbyness is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 11:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon
Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...


HAHAHAHA!!!!


I was on the same track
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 06-07-2005, 05:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon
Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...
Breath/breathe are two words that I always mix up...
Slavakion is offline  
Old 06-08-2005, 02:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: cali
Quote:
Fish do not perform chemical separation of oxygen from water; instead they use the dissolved air that exists in the water in order to breathe. In the ocean the wind, waves and underwater currents help spread small amounts of air inside the water. Studies have shown that in a depth of 200m below the sea there is still about 1.5% of dissolved air. This might not sound like much but it is enough to allow both small and large fish to breathe comfortably underwater.
well, to me, it just sounded as if we were using the dissolved air that was trapped in the water and not the oxygen from H2O.

and to me, if it were using the dissolved air only, it would take some time to replenish it as well. remember i'm not talking about a mere 1 soul out there with this new breathing apparatus. i'm talkin lots of divers and submarines.

the idea in itself is cool. but you can't deny that x amount of years ago, when aerosol cans were invented, there wasn't 1 person that said...'it's the atmosphere, what will 1 can do to it'...and now? we have managed to fuck the world up.

i'm just bein a bit cautious. i would love to dive and explore but not at the expense of all sealife.
__________________
no man or woman is worth your tears - and the one who is, won't make you cry

question authority, don't ask why, just do it!
slant eyes is offline  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Junkie
 
kutulu's Avatar
 
Cool

I wouldn't have thought that there was enough oxygen in the water in order for this. Using Dalton's Law, there is a very small mol% of oxygen in a volume of water. Of course, if the device can process enough water in the specified amount of time, that problem goes away.
kutulu is offline  
Old 06-09-2005, 09:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavakion
Breath/breathe are two words that I always mix up...
Sorry, sometimes I can't help being a wiseass. I only point out spelling mistakes when the end result is funny. On topic, this is a very cool device.
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 06-09-2005, 09:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon
Sorry, sometimes I can't help being a wiseass. I only point out spelling mistakes when the end result is funny. On topic, this is a very cool device.
It's OK you beat the rest of us wiseasses to the punch...
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 06-12-2005, 08:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Kid_Karysma's Avatar
 
Location: The Top Rope
For a submarine, could it provide oxygen to breathe and hydrogen to power the sub? That would be awesome.
Kid_Karysma is offline  
Old 06-12-2005, 08:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
Winter is Coming
 
Frosstbyte's Avatar
 
Location: The North
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavakion
I wonder if they can do this in reverse, and keep the CO<sub>2</sub> in my soda from bubbling out?
Now that's an invention I must have. Someone figure it out.

Edit: Same thing but for beer, not soda. Remember, if it's Guinness, it needs to be nitrogen.

Last edited by Frosstbyte; 06-12-2005 at 10:12 PM..
Frosstbyte is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 08:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: bangor pa
oxygen will never run out in the oceans because.. there are usually constant storms somewhere in the ocean..... there are waves, i dunno if the plants there do anything or not, engines from boats... ect they all turn up the water and add oxygen to it.

its like having a fish in a bowl if you dont change the water every other day or so ( i dont know exactlky how it works) the fish will die, but if you would blow air into the water through a straw it would live longer..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon
...but if you only add files and you never delete, there's nothing to cause file fragmentation, so pattycakes is correct.
pattycakes is offline  
 

Tags
breath, fish

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:14 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360