Breath Like a Fish - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Slavakion · 06-06-2005, 03:29 PM

http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/310505_tech.htm

Quote:

LIKE A FISH –
REVOLUTIONARY UNDERWATER BREATHING SYSTEM

- Iddo Genuth for IsraCast -

An Israeli Inventor has developed a breathing apparatus that will allow breathing underwater without the assistance of oxygen tanks. This new invention will use the relatively small amounts of air that already exist in water to supply oxygen to both scuba divers and submarines. The invention has already captured the interest of most major diving manufacturers as well as the Israeli Navy.

The idea of breathing underwater without cumbersome oxygen tanks has been the dream of science fiction writers for many years. In George Lucas’ movie "The Phantom Menace", Obi-Wan whips out a little Jedi underwater breathing apparatus and dives in. As things tend to happen in our world, yesterday’s science fiction has turned into today's science fact due to one Israeli inventor with a dream.

There are a number of limitations to the existing oxygen tank underwater breathing method. The first is the amount of time a diver can stay underwater, which is the result of the oxygen tank capacity. Another limitation is the dependence on oxygen refueling facilities near the diving site which are costly to operate and are used to compress the gas into the tanks which might be dangerous if not handled properly. The final problem has to do with the actual use of oxygen tanks underwater. When these tanks are in use they empty out and change the balance of the diver in the water.

Engineers have tried to overcome these limitations for many years now. Nuclear submarines and the international space station use systems that generate Oxygen from water by performing 'Electrolysis', which is chemical separation of Oxygen from Hydrogen. These systems require very large amounts of energy to operate. For this reason, smaller, diesel fueled submarines cannot use these systems and are required to resurface to re-supply their oxygen tanks every so often. Divers can't even consider carrying such large machines not to mention supplying them with energy. To overcome this limitation an Israeli inventor, Alon Bodner, turned to fish.
Fish do not perform chemical separation of oxygen from water; instead they use the dissolved air that exists in the water in order to breathe. In the ocean the wind, waves and underwater currents help spread small amounts of air inside the water. Studies have shown that in a depth of 200m below the sea there is still about 1.5% of dissolved air. This might not sound like much but it is enough to allow both small and large fish to breathe comfortably underwater. Bodner’s idea was to create an artificial system that will mimic the way fish use the air in the water thus allowing both smaller submarines and divers to get rid of the large, cumbersome oxygen tanks.

The general structure of the system

The system developed by Bodner uses a well known physical law called the "Henry Law" which describes gas absorption in liquids. This law states that the amount of gas that can be dissolved in a liquid body is proportional to the pressure on the liquid body. The law works in both directions – lowering the pressure will release more gas out of the liquid. This is done by a centrifuge which rotates rapidly thus creating under pressure inside a small sealed chamber containing sea water. The system will be powered by rechargeable batteries. Calculations showed that a one kilo Lithium battery can provide a diver with about one hour of diving time.

Bodner has already built and tested a laboratory model and he is on the path to building a full-scale prototype. Patents for the invention have already been granted in Europe and a similar one is currently pending examination in the U.S. Meetings have already been held with most major diving manufacturers as well as with the Israeli Navy. Initial financial support for the project has been given by Israel Ministry of Industry and Commerce and Bodner is currently looking for private investors to help complete his project.

If everything goes according to plan, in a few years the new tankless breathing system will be operational and will be attached to a diver in the form of a vest that will enable him to stay underwater for a period of many hours.

It sounds like this system will be self-sustaining except for a power source. Just swap out the battery, and you're good to go for another hour. Awesome.

samcol · 06-06-2005, 03:39 PM

Wow! this sounds amazing. As a scuba diver myself, I can only imagine the freedom gained by using something like this. This makes a somewhat inaccessable hobby into something anyone can do with almost zero training the way it sounds (as long as it doesn't cost a fortune

). Where do I sign up?

Slavakion · 06-06-2005, 03:49 PM

Probably 2010. All that's been built is a lab model, which is probably big enough for a lab rat.

I wonder if they can do this in reverse, and keep the CO<sub>2</sub> in my soda from bubbling out?

slant eyes · 06-06-2005, 11:52 PM

cool idea. makes me wonder tho. what happens when a submarine and enough divers use the 'dissolved oxygen' in the water. do fish start to drown because we're using all their oxygen and the currents aren't regenerating it fast enough?

healer · 06-07-2005, 02:02 AM

I was thinking the exact same thing slant eyes. Then again, if this did become an issue I'm sure they'd invent some kind oversize fishtank pump that'll float on the surface and pump air into the water.

d*d · 06-07-2005, 02:35 AM

Im sure it doesn't work like that, as the oxygen is used up it would be replaced naturally

greytone · 06-07-2005, 02:44 AM

There is no way we can use up the O2 in the water. The ocean is a BIG place. Diffusion would lead to very rapid redistribution of the dissolved gases as soon as they are taken out of the water by this system.

stevie667 · 06-07-2005, 03:29 AM

Woah, lets get things sorted, the breather used in episode one contains LOTS of compressed gas, it doesn't filter it from the water...
Right, now that we've got that little error sorted, cool!

Fremen · 06-07-2005, 10:47 AM

Cool idea, but what happens when you need an emergency tank of air on land, hmmm??
Scuba!

Redlemon · 06-07-2005, 10:51 AM

Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...

Gabbyness · 06-07-2005, 10:56 AM

This idea rocks.

Glory's Sun · 06-07-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...

HAHAHAHA!!!!

I was on the same track

Slavakion · 06-07-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy.

/ goes back, reads article

...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind...

Breath/breathe are two words that I always mix up...

slant eyes · 06-08-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Fish do not perform chemical separation of oxygen from water; instead they use the dissolved air that exists in the water in order to breathe. In the ocean the wind, waves and underwater currents help spread small amounts of air inside the water. Studies have shown that in a depth of 200m below the sea there is still about 1.5% of dissolved air. This might not sound like much but it is enough to allow both small and large fish to breathe comfortably underwater.

well, to me, it just sounded as if we were using the dissolved air that was trapped in the water and not the oxygen from H2O.

and to me, if it were using the dissolved air only, it would take some time to replenish it as well. remember i'm not talking about a mere 1 soul out there with this new breathing apparatus. i'm talkin lots of divers and submarines.

the idea in itself is cool. but you can't deny that x amount of years ago, when aerosol cans were invented, there wasn't 1 person that said...'it's the atmosphere, what will 1 can do to it'...and now? we have managed to fuck the world up.

i'm just bein a bit cautious. i would love to dive and explore but not at the expense of all sealife.

kutulu · 06-08-2005, 03:11 PM

Cool

I wouldn't have thought that there was enough oxygen in the water in order for this. Using Dalton's Law, there is a very small mol% of oxygen in a volume of water. Of course, if the device can process enough water in the specified amount of time, that problem goes away.

Redlemon · 06-09-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

Breath/breathe are two words that I always mix up...

Sorry, sometimes I can't help being a wiseass. I only point out spelling mistakes when the end result is funny. On topic, this is a very cool device.

Charlatan · 06-09-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Sorry, sometimes I can't help being a wiseass. I only point out spelling mistakes when the end result is funny. On topic, this is a very cool device.

It's OK you beat the rest of us wiseasses to the punch...

Kid_Karysma · 06-12-2005, 08:27 PM

For a submarine, could it provide oxygen to breathe and hydrogen to power the sub? That would be awesome.

Frosstbyte · 06-12-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

I wonder if they can do this in reverse, and keep the CO<sub>2</sub> in my soda from bubbling out?

Now that's an invention I must have. Someone figure it out.

Edit: Same thing but for beer, not soda. Remember, if it's Guinness, it needs to be nitrogen.

pattycakes · 06-13-2005, 08:16 PM

oxygen will never run out in the oceans because.. there are usually constant storms somewhere in the ocean..... there are waves, i dunno if the plants there do anything or not, engines from boats... ect they all turn up the water and add oxygen to it.

its like having a fish in a bowl if you dont change the water every other day or so ( i dont know exactlky how it works) the fish will die, but if you would blow air into the water through a straw it would live longer..

06-06-2005, 11:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
slant eyes Psycho Location: cali	cool idea. makes me wonder tho. what happens when a submarine and enough divers use the 'dissolved oxygen' in the water. do fish start to drown because we're using all their oxygen and the currents aren't regenerating it fast enough? __________________ no man or woman is worth your tears - and the one who is, won't make you cry question authority, don't ask why, just do it!

06-07-2005, 02:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
greytone Junkie	There is no way we can use up the O2 in the water. The ocean is a BIG place. Diffusion would lead to very rapid redistribution of the dissolved gases as soon as they are taken out of the water by this system. __________________ I was there to see beautiful naked women. So was everybody else. It's a common failing. Robert A Heinlein in "They Do It With Mirrors"

06-07-2005, 03:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Woah, lets get things sorted, the breather used in episode one contains LOTS of compressed gas, it doesn't filter it from the water... Right, now that we've got that little error sorted, cool! __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

06-07-2005, 10:47 AM	#9 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	Cool idea, but what happens when you need an emergency tank of air on land, hmmm?? Scuba! __________________ Google

06-07-2005, 10:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Well, just use mouthwash after you are done eating pussy. / goes back, reads article ...what? Oh, he meant breathe like a fish, not breath like a fish. Nevermind... __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

06-06-2005, 03:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Wow! this sounds amazing. As a scuba diver myself, I can only imagine the freedom gained by using something like this. This makes a somewhat inaccessable hobby into something anyone can do with almost zero training the way it sounds (as long as it doesn't cost a fortune ). Where do I sign up?

06-06-2005, 03:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Probably 2010. All that's been built is a lab model, which is probably big enough for a lab rat. I wonder if they can do this in reverse, and keep the CO<sub>2</sub> in my soda from bubbling out?

06-07-2005, 02:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
healer Found my way back Location: South Africa	I was thinking the exact same thing slant eyes. Then again, if this did become an issue I'm sure they'd invent some kind oversize fishtank pump that'll float on the surface and pump air into the water.

06-07-2005, 02:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
d*d Addict	Im sure it doesn't work like that, as the oxygen is used up it would be replaced naturally

06-07-2005, 10:56 AM	#11 (permalink)
Gabbyness Chicken scratch. Location: Japan!!!	This idea rocks.

06-08-2005, 03:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Cool I wouldn't have thought that there was enough oxygen in the water in order for this. Using Dalton's Law, there is a very small mol% of oxygen in a volume of water. Of course, if the device can process enough water in the specified amount of time, that problem goes away.

06-12-2005, 08:27 PM	#18 (permalink)
Kid_Karysma Crazy Location: The Top Rope	For a submarine, could it provide oxygen to breathe and hydrogen to power the sub? That would be awesome. __________________ Click Here to See All the Karysma Collection. You Will NOT be Disappointed.