Testing the Limits of "Offensive Speech" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 05:34 PM

Hello,

I thought this was interesting as lately we've had many discussions on racism, political correctness, and freedom of speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050602/...training_video

I'm sure there will be a flood of posters who will say, "Ah get over it", "they're too sensitive", or "Damn PC is ruining the country."

I think that the "systems works" in the sense that the community, through the proper channels, aired their grievances and were addressed.

Incosian · 06-02-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

"Ostensibly, the video was created to raise player awareness about how to deal with the media and to demonstrate by example how poor conduct can unintentionally make news," the Yorks' statement said. "Unfortunately, this video is an example in itself."

How ironic...

The public was not intended to receive this video, but since it was released anyway it is good to know that concerns were properly addressed.

RAGEAngel9 · 06-02-2005, 05:42 PM

Do I have this right?
He created a video to deministrate bad behavior and poor things to say to teach the players how to behave. This example tape gets leaked. People get offened and he gets fired.

Is the above right?

If so, yes the public is stupid and overreacting. If this is the system working, then people are retarded.

Psycho Dad · 06-02-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

I think that the "systems works" in the sense that the community, through the proper channels, aired their grievances and were addressed.

Was it really the community or a portion of it? I'm still trying to figure out how we got to the point in life that our society feels that everyone has some god given right to not be offended.

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

Was it really the community or a portion of it? I'm still trying to figure out how we got to the point in life that our society feels that everyone has some god given right to not be offended.

The same way that people chose to boycott the Dixie Chix because they were offended.

Psycho Dad · 06-02-2005, 06:53 PM

The Dixie Chix weren't unemployed because of it.

Ustwo · 06-02-2005, 07:06 PM

The PC police continue their crusade.

Quote:

"I will say this: We do a lot of the sensitivity training, and we do it in the right manner. This is an example of how you do not do it," said Nolan, who was hired in January. "That's not what the 49ers will be about."

Nothing like sensitivity training!

OFKU0 · 06-02-2005, 07:08 PM

And for those of us to lazy to click the link.

Quote:

49ers' PR Director Apologizes for Video By JANIE McCAULEY, AP Sports Writer
Thu Jun 2,10:05 AM ET

SAN FRANCISCO - Kirk Reynolds made just the kind of offensive gaffe he'd preached to the 49ers players about avoiding.

San Francisco's well-liked public relations director is suddenly on his way out of the organization after producing a controversial in-house video meant to prepare players for dealing with the media.

It showed them exactly what not to do, all right.

The 15-minute film leaked to the San Francisco Chronicle features racist jokes, lesbian soft-porn and topless blondes — and even a scene of Reynolds impersonating San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom in the mayor's office.

Reynolds called it a "terrible mistake."

"I'm more sorry than anybody," he said in a phone interview with The Associated Press. "My intention was to deliver a message important to our team. Certainly the execution and my decision-making were way out of line. I deeply regret it."

Reynolds said he made the video to coach players on handling media questions in diverse San Francisco — and never meant it for public consumption.

The video was shown to players last August during training camp in Santa Clara, where it was part of a diversity workshop.

"I certainly offended people and I never intended to offend anybody," Reynolds said. "Anybody who knows me, that's not a reflection of who I am. I did something for a certain audience that got out of hand. ... It was contradictory to my values and beliefs and contradictory to the team's values. I completely apologize to anybody who was offended."

The mayor and the city's gay leaders are among those furious with the video — and Reynolds knows the anger probably stretches across the country.

The team's owners are embarrassed. The Chronicle published an image showing Reynolds with the half-naked women under a screaming headline Wednesday.

General manager Terry Donahue showed a snippet to team owner John York in January, just one day before he was fired, and sent a copy to York at York's request in March. Team lawyer Ed Goines got the tape about three weeks ago, the Chronicle reported.

Team owners Denise and John York on Wednesday called the video offensive, inexcusable and "absolutely contradictory to the ideals and values of the San Francisco 49ers."

"Ostensibly, the video was created to raise player awareness about how to deal with the media and to demonstrate by example how poor conduct can unintentionally make news," the Yorks' statement said. "Unfortunately, this video is an example in itself."

An NFL statement supported the Yorks' viewpoint.

"We share their view that the video was inappropriate, offensive in every respect, and of no value whatsoever," the league said. "It does not reflect the 49ers' values and traditions or those of the league and its member clubs."

The Yorks didn't address Reynolds' future. Reynolds said he told the team recently he planned to "depart before training camp" to explore other interests, and said this incident would likely speed up the process.

"I'm focusing on dealing with the issue and what I've created," Reynolds said. "I'm going to stand up to what I've done."

Goines said in a statement that the team's executives never reviewed or approved of the video, and has since issued "appropriate discipline to the person or persons responsible."

Reynolds opens the film sitting behind the mayor's desk, then goes to Chinatown, where a 49ers team consultant uses racial slurs about the Chinese community. Next comes a topless, lesbian wedding filmed at a strip club and officiated by Reynolds, again impersonating the mayor.

"I know the courts say we can't do this," Reynolds says before the happy couple engages in heavy petting. "We make our own rules here in San Francisco."

Reynolds then goes to SBC Park, where acting as "mayor" he throws out the opening pitch, then takes a bribe from the catcher, who thanks him for supporting "hookers and booze."

"You do something controversial, you say something controversial, it will have an impact on this team. So remember, be mindful of your actions," Reynolds says, wearing only a towel before joining three topless blondes for a group hug in a strip club's dressing room.

Newsom — shown the tape by the Chronicle — was not amused.

"It wasn't right to do it to the Asian community, particularly the Chinese community. It was wrong to do it to the gay and lesbian community. It was wrong to exploit women as they were exploited in this video," the mayor told Fox affiliate KTVU. "The video is reprehensible."

Coach Mike Nolan, left to face the media Wednesday at the 49ers' practice facility, stressed that the video reflected decisions made by an old "regime," and that York has since put the team in the right direction.

"I will say this: We do a lot of the sensitivity training, and we do it in the right manner. This is an example of how you do not do it," said Nolan, who was hired in January. "That's not what the 49ers will be about."

Marvelous Marv · 06-02-2005, 07:20 PM

This strikes me as the equivalent of being quoted out of context. If Reynolds had made the video to get a laugh with racist, sexist, offensive behavior, that would be one thing.

What seems to be the case is that he made a video intended to be a bad example, in order to give his players a clue to proper behavior. That's probably a great way to communicate with a 22-year-old multimillionaire who has half the town kissing his ass. Lecturing him certainly won't accomplish anything.

Sounds like Reynolds is the victim of an injustice to me.

Disk_Pusher · 06-02-2005, 07:26 PM

Psycho Dad -

I can't remember the episode, but Penn & Teller have nearly mirrored your views on the "right" not to be offended. Perhaps it was the latest episode about College.

Psycho Dad · 06-02-2005, 07:30 PM

There are a lot of people who have that view, it is just you hear more out of the whine bags that think the world should be turned upside down every time someone utters a word that someone else doesn't think should be said. People these days do not understand that it is not words that cause problems but ideas. Racist ideas can cause problems far more than someone saying nigger. Hate can come from ideas without someone saying faggot. But it is just too easy for the Sheeple to hang on everything that the media wants to blow entirely out of proportion.

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 08:24 PM

So, for all you people who are complaining that people are too PC or too sensitive or whiners or stupid and overreacted, what would you have them do? Just keep their mouths shut and take their licks like a man?

I'm not a lesbian so I really can't relate on a personal level as to why they're offended. But I don't have a problem with their making their concerns known.

I also agree that people should lighten up but it's a two-way street: lighten up yes, AND others should be more sensitive as well; that's how we meet in the middle. I don't see the problem with that.

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

This strikes me as the equivalent of being quoted out of context. If Reynolds had made the video to get a laugh with racist, sexist, offensive behavior, that would be one thing.

What seems to be the case is that he made a video intended to be a bad example, in order to give his players a clue to proper behavior. That's probably a great way to communicate with a 22-year-old multimillionaire who has half the town kissing his ass. Lecturing him certainly won't accomplish anything.

Sounds like Reynolds is the victim of an injustice to me.

This is an interesting angle. Come to think of it, I have no idea what they were trying to do in the video (other than it was meant as a sensitivity training video) based on the description. I've never seen a sensitivity training video before. Maybe someone will post a link to the video or sumthin' so we can all see for ourselves.

I didn't think of it as a video on what NOT to do; examples of bad behavior etc. In context, that would seem to make more sense though. Hmmm... now I'm curious and want to see the video.

Ustwo · 06-02-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

So, for all you people who are complaining that people are too PC or too sensitive or whiners or stupid and overreacted, what would you have them do? Just keep their mouths shut and take their licks like a man?

I'm not a lesbian so I really can't relate on a personal level as to why they're offended. But I don't have a problem with their making their concerns known.

I also agree that people should lighten up but it's a two-way street: lighten up yes, AND others should be more sensitive as well; that's how we meet in the middle. I don't see the problem with that.

It was a video not ment for public viewing from a private group.

The US army in WWII used to show pictures of naked women inbetween slides of aircraft used for aircraft identification. They found it improved the soldiers retention of the aircraft outlines they had to learn to identify.

My feeling is a video like this was ment to have a like effect. If you want to keep a bunch of young, egocentric, wealthy, and not all that well educated mens attention on what is basicly a training video, I can't think of a better way to do it than making one like they did.

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

The Dixie Chix weren't unemployed because of it.

No, you're right, I don't think they were "fired", but they were hurt economically and in a sense, "fired" from the airplay on radio stations.

They issued an apology and have since toned down their "views" because it is "politically incorrect" to criticize the president and his policies. They don't want to risk losing their fan base of "Sheeple who hang on everything that the media wants to blow entirely out of proportion."

This guy Reynolds was fired from his job with the 49niners but I bet he'll get a job somewhere else.

I understand what you're saying Psycho Dad, but I don't think it's that simple or black and white. I believe it's more nuanced and complex.

I dunno, I kind of see it as, "in progress".

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

It was a video not ment for public viewing from a private group.

The US army in WWII used to show pictures of naked women inbetween slides of aircraft used for aircraft identification. They found it improved the soldiers retention of the aircraft outlines they had to learn to identify.

My feeling is a video like this was ment to have a like effect. If you want to keep a bunch of young, egocentric, wealthy, and not all that well educated mens attention on what is basicly a training video, I can't think of a better way to do it than making one like they did.

This is a good point. But it's a bit hard for me to get a real sense of it without seeing the actual video. Maybe a spin on Kazaa....The article doesn't really say what context the scenes that were described were in.

The 49niners said that the video was,

"We share their view that the video was inappropriate, offensive in every respect, and of no value whatsoever," the league said. "It does not reflect the 49ers' values and traditions or those of the league and its member clubs."

Your army example is clear to me, the video in question here is not so clear to me. For example, did the trainer say, "the following are examples of unacceptable behavior" or what?

World's King · 06-02-2005, 10:23 PM

I wanna take everyone that bitches and moans about everyone being too PC or not PC anough and fuck 'em in the ass.

That's right. No one should give a shit. You wanna talk a certain way? Fuckin' go for it. You think tits and death are bad for people? Don't look at them. As soon as we start leaving everyone the fuck alone... the more happy we will be.

You know, I don't say all this because I'm a pretty fucked up person that likes to drink, fuck, and if I have to beat the living shit outta someone. I'm saying it becuase it's fuckin' true. Sex and violence are the American way. If you hate them or love them, they feeds our families and put roofs over our heads. Get used to it and shut your fuckin' mouth.

Disk_Pusher · 06-09-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Original King

You think tits and death are bad for people? Don't look at them.

Sounds just right to me.

Menoman · 06-12-2005, 10:34 AM

Seriously if some employer told me I needed sensitivity training, I'd slit his throat and tell him to fuck off,

but then I'd say "damn now I feel bad about doing this" as his blood gushed all over me.

06-02-2005, 05:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Testing the Limits of "Offensive Speech" Hello, I thought this was interesting as lately we've had many discussions on racism, political correctness, and freedom of speech. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050602/...training_video I'm sure there will be a flood of posters who will say, "Ah get over it", "they're too sensitive", or "Damn PC is ruining the country." I think that the "systems works" in the sense that the community, through the proper channels, aired their grievances and were addressed.

06-02-2005, 06:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	The Dixie Chix weren't unemployed because of it. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

06-02-2005, 07:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	There are a lot of people who have that view, it is just you hear more out of the whine bags that think the world should be turned upside down every time someone utters a word that someone else doesn't think should be said. People these days do not understand that it is not words that cause problems but ideas. Racist ideas can cause problems far more than someone saying nigger. Hate can come from ideas without someone saying faggot. But it is just too easy for the Sheeple to hang on everything that the media wants to blow entirely out of proportion. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

06-02-2005, 10:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I wanna take everyone that bitches and moans about everyone being too PC or not PC anough and fuck 'em in the ass. That's right. No one should give a shit. You wanna talk a certain way? Fuckin' go for it. You think tits and death are bad for people? Don't look at them. As soon as we start leaving everyone the fuck alone... the more happy we will be. You know, I don't say all this because I'm a pretty fucked up person that likes to drink, fuck, and if I have to beat the living shit outta someone. I'm saying it becuase it's fuckin' true. Sex and violence are the American way. If you hate them or love them, they feeds our families and put roofs over our heads. Get used to it and shut your fuckin' mouth. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

06-02-2005, 05:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
RAGEAngel9 Insane Location: Vermont	Do I have this right? He created a video to deministrate bad behavior and poor things to say to teach the players how to behave. This example tape gets leaked. People get offened and he gets fired. Is the above right? If so, yes the public is stupid and overreacting. If this is the system working, then people are retarded.

06-02-2005, 07:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	This strikes me as the equivalent of being quoted out of context. If Reynolds had made the video to get a laugh with racist, sexist, offensive behavior, that would be one thing. What seems to be the case is that he made a video intended to be a bad example, in order to give his players a clue to proper behavior. That's probably a great way to communicate with a 22-year-old multimillionaire who has half the town kissing his ass. Lecturing him certainly won't accomplish anything. Sounds like Reynolds is the victim of an injustice to me.

06-02-2005, 07:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
Disk_Pusher Tilted Location: Fresno, soon to be Sacramento!	Psycho Dad - I can't remember the episode, but Penn & Teller have nearly mirrored your views on the "right" not to be offended. Perhaps it was the latest episode about College.

06-02-2005, 08:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	So, for all you people who are complaining that people are too PC or too sensitive or whiners or stupid and overreacted, what would you have them do? Just keep their mouths shut and take their licks like a man? I'm not a lesbian so I really can't relate on a personal level as to why they're offended. But I don't have a problem with their making their concerns known. I also agree that people should lighten up but it's a two-way street: lighten up yes, AND others should be more sensitive as well; that's how we meet in the middle. I don't see the problem with that.