They don't make soldiers like they used to - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 05-28-2005, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Surrender after 60 years: two soldiers ask to go home
By Deborah Cameron Herald Correspondent in Tokyo
May 28, 2005

As young conscripts they pledged never to to surrender. Yesterday as old men they emerged from their hiding place in the Philippines - two Japanese Imperial Army soldiers, asking to go home.

Discovered after a chance encounter with a Philippines businesswoman who had friends in Japan, the men reportedly have documents that show they were attached to the army's 30th Division. Until yesterday they had been listed among Japan's war dead.

Word of the exiles became public yesterday, but the efforts to trace their history date from December when a businesswoman from the Philippines rang a friend in Japan to ask for help in getting the men home.

The men are Yoshio Yamakawa 87, and Tsuzuki Nakauchi, 85.

They made contact with the outside world through a 93-year-old former military doctor, Kyodo News reported.

"I also want to go back to Japan but we are worried about a court martial," the doctor reportedly said.

As Japan prepares to mark the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II, the epic of the lost soldiers is a reminder of 4000 other Japanese military in the Philippines who never accepted surrender and fled to the mountains.

In the years immediately after the war signs posted in many areas warned travellers that Japanese soldiers were still present. They had dug in, ignoring pamphlet drops in 1945 telling them that the war had ended and also eluding American troops and many search parties.

Two years ago Japan authorised a mission to the Philippines to try to find what was thought to be the last five or six soldiers living in exile but it came back empty handed.

Japan's Foreign Minister, Nobutaka Machimura, yesterday said embassy officials from Manila had gone to the island of Mindanao to meet the latest group and that it was almost certain they were Japanese.

"I am glad that they were able to survive for 60 years," said Goichi Ichikawa, 89, who is chairman of a group of army survivors.

The Government has not released information about whether the men had spent the past 60 years in isolation or whether they had set aside their uniforms and taken up lives as ordinary civilians in the Philippines. The men had written their names in Japanese, a Government spokesman said.

News of their possible repatriation to Japan reopens one of the most intriguing mysteries of the postwar years. For the families involved, it is as though these men have returned from the dead.

When another soldier, Shoichi Yokoi, gave himself up in Guam in 1972 after years living in a cave, he said he was the last survivor in a group of three who had stayed together after the war.

At the time he said: "We Japanese soldiers were told to prefer death to the disgrace of getting captured alive," according to the Pacific Wreck Database, which lists rediscovered Japanese soldiers and also records the wrecks of aircraft and other military equipment.

The most celebrated case of a Japanese to be found after the war was Hiroo Onoda, who with a small band of men got into sporadic gun fights with villagers and Philippines soldiers.

He gave himself up in 1974 but had to be persuaded that the war was really over.

REF: http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Hid...129897877.html

This is a pretty amazing story. I had read about Hiroo Onoda before, but this takes the biscuit.

I wonder if their, hopefully imminent, return to Japan will further inflame issues surrounding Japanese refusal to face up to the trust of their war-time history?

Mr Mephisto

Glava · 05-28-2005, 04:58 AM

Hiroo Onoda killed something like 30 Filpino villagers. Granted, he thought they were still at war, but nevertheless, he did kill civilians and the President of the Phillipinnes at the time, Ferdinand Marcos, let him completely off the hook.

The article doesn't mention if this pair committed violence, but if they did, I hope they get what they deserve.

Cynthetiq · 05-28-2005, 05:10 AM

I remember watching all the 80's shows where they'd be on an island and stumble upon some single Japanese soldier who thought it was still the war.

Crazy that they found this pair.

maleficent · 05-28-2005, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I remember watching all the 80's shows where they'd be on an island and stumble upon some single Japanese soldier who thought it was still the war.
.

There was a Gilligan's Island episode with that theme..

Could you imagine the shock this pair will have after being gone for 60 years and coming back to all the changes in the world...

Ustwo · 05-28-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

There was a Gilligan's Island episode with that theme..

Could you imagine the shock this pair will have after being gone for 60 years and coming back to all the changes in the world...

There was an A team episode with this as well.

The soldiers reaction to seeing modern tokyo was 'are you sure we lost the war?'.

jorgelito · 05-28-2005, 11:01 AM

I read a different article (Associated Press) that said these guys were deserters, and not the heroes everyone's makin them out to be. Don't know whom to believe....

Anyways, what a waste of 60+ years. All for nuthin'.

Other "deserters" on various islands married local folk and had families, started new lives - when they were discovered, they had to cover their asses from desertion charges so they made like the war wasn't over.

Reminds me of the American guy in North Korea.

KungFuGuy · 05-28-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

There was a Gilligan's Island episode with that theme..

Could you imagine the shock this pair will have after being gone for 60 years and coming back to all the changes in the world...

I don't think there will be much shock from changes in the world, unless they were literally living out of cave and foragin berries for food. I'm pretty sure they have television in the phillipenes. (according to my friends who used to live there anyway).

pwrinkle · 05-28-2005, 11:46 PM

I heard these guys knew the war was over for awhile.

Plus if you really were a soldier wouldn't your duty be to contact your chain of command or make your way to japan or out of enemy territory.

There is no way these guys thought the war was still going.

Mephisto2 · 05-29-2005, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

I read a different article (Associated Press) that said these guys were deserters, and not the heroes everyone's makin them out to be. Don't know whom to believe....

I don't know who is making them out to be "heroes"; rather sad old men who were afraid to return home because they feared court martial.

Quote:

Other "deserters" on various islands married local folk and had families, started new lives - when they were discovered, they had to cover their asses from desertion charges so they made like the war wasn't over.

I believe some of these guys started families with locals. Are you sure you're not mixing them up with someone else?

Mr Mephisto

jorgelito · 05-29-2005, 09:55 AM

The Japanese are makng them out to be heroes for their "steadfast loyalty" (it does make a compelling story) and their nationalism.

It is possible that I am mixing it up, but I think we're talking about the same thing if not a similar thing. Same ballpark I think.

Mephisto2 · 05-29-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

The Japanese are makng them out to be heroes for their "steadfast loyalty" (it does make a compelling story) and their nationalism.

Fair enough. That sounds possible.

Mr Mephisto

Glava · 05-29-2005, 06:43 PM

Copied and pasted from here.

Japanese soldiers story 'a scam'
By Mynardo Macaraig in General Santos, Philippines
May 30, 2005
From: Agence France-Presse

SECURITY forces on the insurgency-wracked Philippine island of Mindanao are increasingly sceptical of reports that two elderly Japanese men have been hiding in the jungle since World War II.
While Japanese diplomats tried for a fourth day to establish the veracity of the reports, suspicion grew today that kidnapping gangs on the island might have invented the rumours as a scam to lure foreigners into the region.

Newspaper reports that unidentified rebels were asking for money for the two Japanese soldiers were a sign the whole thing could be simply a "money-making scheme", warned a regional police intelligence chief.

"If you give money, how do you know you will get anything?" asked Superintendent Robert Kiunisula, adding that those holding the alleged Japanese soldiers should prove their sincerity by bringing the men out into the open.
Advertisement:

Japan's Mainichi Shimbun newspaper said unidentified Philippine rebels were demanding a $US232,000 ($304,800) ransom for delivering the soldiers, said to have been hiding in the jungle unaware that World War II had ended.

Japan's Kyodo News agency, citing Japanese government sources, identified the two men as Yoshio Yamakawa, 87, and Tsuzuki Nakauchi, 85.

If the reports which emerged late last week prove to be genuine, Mr Yamakawa and Mr Nakauchi would be the first so-called Japanese "stragglers" from World War II to be uncovered in over 30 years.

Japan was stunned in 1974 when former imperial Japanese army intelligence officer Hiroo Onoda was found living in the jungle on the Philippine island of Lubang. He did not know of Japan's surrender 29 years earlier.

Tokyo has dispatched its embassy staff and an official from the ministry of welfare to Mindanao, some 1300km south of Manila, to track down the Japanese soldiers.

But police and the military in General Santos have expressed concern about the safety of the diplomats and the hordes of Japanese and other foreign journalists who have descended on the port city.

"I think they could be making this story up just to kidnap foreigners," warned Supt Kiunisula.

The area is home to both the communist New People's Army and the Muslim separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and other Muslim extremist groups. Muslim rebels are known to have carried out kidnappings for ransom.

The MILF has said it has information on where the old soldiers are and offered to act as a go-between for the Japanese Government.

Embassy staff posted a warning in Japanese for journalists on Mindanao not to venture into the hills in search of the two soldiers or to follow anyone who offered to lead them to the men.

Colonel Medardo Geslani, the chief military officer in General Santos, said that his own forces had looked into the allegations of World War II stragglers.

"As far as the military and national police are concerned, there is no indication" of any Japanese having been left behind after World War II, he said.

"If there are new faces in town, there are lawless elements who may take advantage," he warned.

It is unclear how two Japanese soldiers hiding in the mountains could have survived over three decades of communist and Muslim guerrilla activity.

Japan attacked the Philippines, then a US colony, hours after its 1941 air raid on America's Pearl Harbour, leading to a brutal occupation before US-led forces recaptured the islands.

Another former Japanese soldier, Shoichi Yokoi, was found on Guam in 1972. He returned home and died in 1997.

Ustwo · 05-31-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Muslim separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF)

Ok anyone else get a little chuckle?

jaco · 06-01-2005, 04:07 AM

*cues beavis laugh at the MILF*

I got to give it to whoever came up with the story, it's a damn good one. I feel pride in humanity for anyone stubborn enough to survive for years on their own in enemy territory, to bad the newest story is a hoax.

Jackebear · 06-01-2005, 06:30 AM

It's official everyone...it is a hoax, fake, scam, not true.

Mediator says story of WWII Japanese soldiers in Philippines was a hoax
10:29 AM EDT Jun 01
TOKYO (AP) - The mediator who tried to arrange a meeting with two alleged Japanese soldiers thought to be hiding in the Philippines since the Second World War has confirmed the story is a hoax, a media report said Wednesday.

The unidentified 58-year-old Japanese man, a trader who first reported the men's existence, told the national Yomiuri newspaper that he had met the two alleged soldiers in the mountains on Mindanao island and found they were not Japanese.

Neither of the men could answer when asked where they were born and to which military unit they belonged, the mediator was quoted as saying in the Yomiuri.

The Japanese Embassy in Manila, however, said the government had not dismissed the possibility that the story is true.

"We will continue to find out what this is all about," said embassy spokesman Shuhei Ogawa.

According to the Yomiuri, after the Japanese trader's Filipino staff notified him about the wartime stragglers, he spent five million yen, or the equivalent of about $46,000 US, paying local residents for information in hopes of tracking them down.

The story of the two soldiers, who were reportedly separated from their unit six decades ago and were afraid to return for fear of being court-martialed, broke as Japanese veterans marked the 60th anniversary of the war's end.

Japan withdrew diplomats from General Santos, in the southern Philippines, on Monday after four days of unsuccessfully trying to verify reports about two surviving Japanese wartime soldiers.

The Japanese Embassy and officials in Tokyo cited security concerns in a region notorious for Muslim guerrilla attacks and criminal gangs. Japan's Kyodo news agency, quoting an unidentified government source, said Tokyo also concluded that the Japanese mediator can't be trusted.

In Japan, Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda said attempts to arrange a face-to-face meeting with the men would continue despite suspicions that the tale is a hoax.

The Philippines, a U.S. colony during the war, was a major battleground in the Pacific. The Japanese occupation is remembered for its massacres of civilians and deaths of hundreds of thousands of U.S. and Filipino soldiers. Years after the war ended, there were signs indicating Japanese soldiers still lived in the hills.

In March 1974, intelligence officer 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda came out of hiding on northern Lubang island, but he refused to give up until the Japanese government flew in his former commander to tell him the war was over.

05-28-2005, 05:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I remember watching all the 80's shows where they'd be on an island and stumble upon some single Japanese soldier who thought it was still the war. Crazy that they found this pair. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-29-2005, 06:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Glava Betitled	It's looking more and more like a fake. Copied and pasted from here. Japanese soldiers story 'a scam' By Mynardo Macaraig in General Santos, Philippines May 30, 2005 From: Agence France-Presse SECURITY forces on the insurgency-wracked Philippine island of Mindanao are increasingly sceptical of reports that two elderly Japanese men have been hiding in the jungle since World War II. While Japanese diplomats tried for a fourth day to establish the veracity of the reports, suspicion grew today that kidnapping gangs on the island might have invented the rumours as a scam to lure foreigners into the region. Newspaper reports that unidentified rebels were asking for money for the two Japanese soldiers were a sign the whole thing could be simply a "money-making scheme", warned a regional police intelligence chief. "If you give money, how do you know you will get anything?" asked Superintendent Robert Kiunisula, adding that those holding the alleged Japanese soldiers should prove their sincerity by bringing the men out into the open. Advertisement: Japan's Mainichi Shimbun newspaper said unidentified Philippine rebels were demanding a $US232,000 ($304,800) ransom for delivering the soldiers, said to have been hiding in the jungle unaware that World War II had ended. Japan's Kyodo News agency, citing Japanese government sources, identified the two men as Yoshio Yamakawa, 87, and Tsuzuki Nakauchi, 85. If the reports which emerged late last week prove to be genuine, Mr Yamakawa and Mr Nakauchi would be the first so-called Japanese "stragglers" from World War II to be uncovered in over 30 years. Japan was stunned in 1974 when former imperial Japanese army intelligence officer Hiroo Onoda was found living in the jungle on the Philippine island of Lubang. He did not know of Japan's surrender 29 years earlier. Tokyo has dispatched its embassy staff and an official from the ministry of welfare to Mindanao, some 1300km south of Manila, to track down the Japanese soldiers. But police and the military in General Santos have expressed concern about the safety of the diplomats and the hordes of Japanese and other foreign journalists who have descended on the port city. "I think they could be making this story up just to kidnap foreigners," warned Supt Kiunisula. The area is home to both the communist New People's Army and the Muslim separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and other Muslim extremist groups. Muslim rebels are known to have carried out kidnappings for ransom. The MILF has said it has information on where the old soldiers are and offered to act as a go-between for the Japanese Government. Embassy staff posted a warning in Japanese for journalists on Mindanao not to venture into the hills in search of the two soldiers or to follow anyone who offered to lead them to the men. Colonel Medardo Geslani, the chief military officer in General Santos, said that his own forces had looked into the allegations of World War II stragglers. "As far as the military and national police are concerned, there is no indication" of any Japanese having been left behind after World War II, he said. "If there are new faces in town, there are lawless elements who may take advantage," he warned. It is unclear how two Japanese soldiers hiding in the mountains could have survived over three decades of communist and Muslim guerrilla activity. Japan attacked the Philippines, then a US colony, hours after its 1941 air raid on America's Pearl Harbour, leading to a brutal occupation before US-led forces recaptured the islands. Another former Japanese soldier, Shoichi Yokoi, was found on Guam in 1972. He returned home and died in 1997.

06-01-2005, 04:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
jaco Crazy	cues beavis laugh at the MILF I got to give it to whoever came up with the story, it's a damn good one. I feel pride in humanity for anyone stubborn enough to survive for years on their own in enemy territory, to bad the newest story is a hoax. __________________ "How soft your fields so green, Can whisper tales of gore" "Thou art god"

06-01-2005, 06:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
Jackebear Insane	It's official everyone...it is a hoax, fake, scam, not true. Mediator says story of WWII Japanese soldiers in Philippines was a hoax 10:29 AM EDT Jun 01 TOKYO (AP) - The mediator who tried to arrange a meeting with two alleged Japanese soldiers thought to be hiding in the Philippines since the Second World War has confirmed the story is a hoax, a media report said Wednesday. The unidentified 58-year-old Japanese man, a trader who first reported the men's existence, told the national Yomiuri newspaper that he had met the two alleged soldiers in the mountains on Mindanao island and found they were not Japanese. Neither of the men could answer when asked where they were born and to which military unit they belonged, the mediator was quoted as saying in the Yomiuri. The Japanese Embassy in Manila, however, said the government had not dismissed the possibility that the story is true. "We will continue to find out what this is all about," said embassy spokesman Shuhei Ogawa. According to the Yomiuri, after the Japanese trader's Filipino staff notified him about the wartime stragglers, he spent five million yen, or the equivalent of about $46,000 US, paying local residents for information in hopes of tracking them down. The story of the two soldiers, who were reportedly separated from their unit six decades ago and were afraid to return for fear of being court-martialed, broke as Japanese veterans marked the 60th anniversary of the war's end. Japan withdrew diplomats from General Santos, in the southern Philippines, on Monday after four days of unsuccessfully trying to verify reports about two surviving Japanese wartime soldiers. The Japanese Embassy and officials in Tokyo cited security concerns in a region notorious for Muslim guerrilla attacks and criminal gangs. Japan's Kyodo news agency, quoting an unidentified government source, said Tokyo also concluded that the Japanese mediator can't be trusted. In Japan, Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda said attempts to arrange a face-to-face meeting with the men would continue despite suspicions that the tale is a hoax. The Philippines, a U.S. colony during the war, was a major battleground in the Pacific. The Japanese occupation is remembered for its massacres of civilians and deaths of hundreds of thousands of U.S. and Filipino soldiers. Years after the war ended, there were signs indicating Japanese soldiers still lived in the hills. In March 1974, intelligence officer 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda came out of hiding on northern Lubang island, but he refused to give up until the Japanese government flew in his former commander to tell him the war was over. __________________ Life's jounney is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn-out shouting, "Holy sh*t! What a ride!" - unknown

05-28-2005, 04:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Glava Betitled	Hiroo Onoda killed something like 30 Filpino villagers. Granted, he thought they were still at war, but nevertheless, he did kill civilians and the President of the Phillipinnes at the time, Ferdinand Marcos, let him completely off the hook. The article doesn't mention if this pair committed violence, but if they did, I hope they get what they deserve.

05-28-2005, 11:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I read a different article (Associated Press) that said these guys were deserters, and not the heroes everyone's makin them out to be. Don't know whom to believe.... Anyways, what a waste of 60+ years. All for nuthin'. Other "deserters" on various islands married local folk and had families, started new lives - when they were discovered, they had to cover their asses from desertion charges so they made like the war wasn't over. Reminds me of the American guy in North Korea.

05-28-2005, 11:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
pwrinkle Upright	I heard these guys knew the war was over for awhile. Plus if you really were a soldier wouldn't your duty be to contact your chain of command or make your way to japan or out of enemy territory. There is no way these guys thought the war was still going.

05-29-2005, 09:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	The Japanese are makng them out to be heroes for their "steadfast loyalty" (it does make a compelling story) and their nationalism. It is possible that I am mixing it up, but I think we're talking about the same thing if not a similar thing. Same ballpark I think.