Derwood

I often wonder what people define as "evolution" in today's world. I have two conflicting opinions that I can't decide between:

1) The discovery and implementation of modern medicine has thwarted natural selection, keeping natural selection from pruning out the weaker members of the human race and keeping the human race from evolving into a superior form. If nature took its course, eventually genetic diseases, cancer, etc. would run its course, leaving the stronger humans to survive.

OR

2) Modern medicine IS part of today's evolutionary process. Survival of the fittest is now defined by those who can afford the treatment to stay alive and strong. Americans, for example, are comparatively wealthier than those in third world countries, thus Americans can maintain healthier lives and longer lives, while the destitute in other countries die in droves.

Which side do you fall on in this complex question? Or are there other takes on the subject?

gov135

Number two. As a world population we've defined the "fittest" as "he who has the most assets."

The_Dude

i'll take #1.

i think the human race would be farther than where we are (physically and adaptable wise) if medicine was not introduced.

the race would be much more immune to diseases.

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Derwood

But as an addendum to #1, wouldn't natural selection only take place if the mating of humans occured in a localized manner? Plus, how does "love" screw up natural selection?

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greytone

Natural selection only works if you die before reproduce. The vast majority of modern medicine has no influence on reproduction or gene frequency. Cultural forces and personal choice actually select for characteristics that we might not consider ideal in a modern world.

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Miekle

All I know is I can't wait to lose my pinky toes.....wait I'm now being told that my great great great great great great great grandkids are going to not me...... hmmm where's my pocket knife

lafemmefatale

Actually I got another theory to provide, albeit no mine own.

In Biology class, a class mate of mine, a very creative guy...mentioned [this only applies to western society, and since evolution takes millions and millions of years this probably isn't too likely] that now there is a real superficial side to society and that an element of relationships is definately looks. And it's true, maybe not supermodel hotness good looks but chances are not many ppl want to date someone that looks like a donkey's ass...

And good looks is typically demonstrated by having good health, fit...and all of that [except supermodels...which promotes anorexia...]...so if the majority of the relationships is pretty good looking ppl with good looking ppl...which also means healthy...then evolution still occurs byhaving good looking, healthy offsprings and...ok dream on.

Anyway...so superficiality is also a way of evolution...or not.

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WhoaitsZ

dare not forget that change is not always good for the person who is thinking of these thoughts. sure, i wanna be safe and 'evolve' in a positive way... but evolution, to me, is a constant, steady mutation. for better or -worse-.

i have spinal muscular atrophy and have defied every odd against me. the mutation of the atrophy geene or whatever the fuck you call it (i'm trying to be honest) has simply stopped. its just quit.

what if disease weret he next step to take us out?

um..... i've totally lost the point of my post..... i need sleep.

elaphe

I don’t think modern medicine has impacted the mechanism of natural selection as much as cheap and quick international travel. Genetic drift is more pronounced in isolated populations vs. a population that has the influx and free mingling of new genetic material.

Love does not screw up natural selection. Even Darwin recognized sexual selection as one of the mechanisms of evolution.

Points to ponder: Has the inclusion of modern medicine (in regards to longevity and fecundity) with Western morality (the sanctity of all life) allowed for genes that may have been selected against to spread within the general population? Should society recognize this and start a eugenics program to “weed out” undesirable genes? Is the Human Genome Project just the start of such a program? Should breeding be controlled? Does humanity have the foresight to control its own destiny?

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Derwood

All scary questions. Too bad "Gattica" wasn't a good movie, as it had that very premise at its heart.

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ARTelevision

we evolve culturally

The time scale of genetic evolution is too slow to make any difference.

IMO, of course.

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madsenj37

People who are considered good looking in Western Cultures also have the most symmetrical faces. Everyone has a flawed face and those we consider hot tend to have the most geometrically congruent faces. It is based on the golden arc, given to us by the romans I believe.

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madsenj37

As for medicine screwing with our genes ... I believe that mother nature will eventually correct us and we will die due to lack of resources like the people of Easter Island.

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raeanna74

Frequently those people who are more successful and able bodied are waiting until later in life to reproduce. Once they begin to try to have children they are older and less successful at it. On the other hand the kids right out of highschool with no ambition or drive just play around and begin having kids right away. They end up having multiple children and then living off of welfare. The number of children in poor uneducated families is much greater than those in educated and more successful people. In this way we are dooming ourselves to allow the uneducated, often slower humans to do our propogation for us. Just one more aspect of how current culture would affect the growth of the human race.

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JStrider

you mean the golden rectangle right?

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manalone

Natural Selection Continues.
Evolution continues.

The fact that environmental goals are altered is, to a very large extent, irrelevent.

What is important in evolutionary progression is not what people (however unlikely) survive, but what genetic traits are passed on through generations, and the base trends these result in.

Selection is still a black box process. All we know is that in a short recent time, people are getting taller (gradually... could be diet related) and that incidence of some malformations is increasing due probably to tobacco and other pollutants.

In short, #2 is closer, but Americans are not a separate species. The species homo sapiens sapiens continues to spread about the earth; its population grows and new generations live. Nationality as a marker is an irrelevence.

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Man Alone
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Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

World's King

I have to go #2


Evolution is everything from the y way you get a hard on when you see boobs to science that made the pill that made it possible for you to get a hard on when you see boobs.

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