"Snitch @#%$ hoe" goes to court - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CShine · 05-06-2005, 04:02 PM

From an actual decision issued by the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. Check out the highlighted footnote at the bottom.

Quote:

In the United States Court of Appeals
For the Seventh Circuit
____________
Nos. 04-2032, 04-2293 & 04-2309
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff-Appellee, Cross-Appellant,
v.
DARRON J. MURPHY, SR.,
Defendant-Appellant, Cross-Appellee,
and
JENNIFER BAKER,
Defendant, Cross-Appellee.
____________
Appeals from the United States District Court
for the Southern District of Illinois.
No. 03 CR 30137—G. Patrick Murphy, Chief Judge.
____________
ARGUED JANUARY 13, 2005—DECIDED MAY 4, 2005
____________
Before ROVNER, EVANS, and SYKES, Circuit Judges.
EVANS, Circuit Judge.

A jury found Darron Murphy, Sr. guilty on an indictment charging five counts: tampering with a witness who was going to testify against his son (Darron Murphy, Jr.); using a firearm while doing the tampering; being a felon in possession of a firearm; and two counts involving crack cocaine. The same jury also found Jennifer Baker, young Murphy’s girlfriend, guilty of aiding and abetting Murphy, Sr. on the two counts related to witness tampering and one of the drug charges. After the jury spoke, the trial judge, G. Patrick Murphy (there may be too many Murphys in this case), granted Baker’s motion for a judgment of acquittal on the two counts relating to tampering. Murphy, Sr.’s motions for judgments of acquittal were denied and he now appeals, arguing that his conviction on the jury tampering charge was tainted by a faulty jury instruction. If successful on the challenge, the related tampering charge involving the use of a firearm must also be set aside. The government appeals Judge Murphy’s decision to grant post-verdict relief to Baker.

We begin with the facts. Pamela Hayden agreed to become an informant for local law enforcement after being arrested on drug charges. In December of 2002, she made two controlled purchases of crack cocaine from Darron Murphy, Jr., which led to his arrest.

On the evening of May 29, 2003, Hayden was smoking crack with three other folks at a trailer park home on Chain of Rocks Road in Granite City, Illinois. Murphy, Sr., who had sold drugs to Hayden several years earlier, showed up later that night. He was friendly at first, but he soon called Hayden a “snitch @#%$ hoe”(FN1) and hit her in the head with the back of his hand. He said he saw her name in discovery materials from his son’s criminal case and that she was...

FN1: The trial transcript quotes Ms. Hayden as saying Murphy called her a snitch @#%$ “hoe.” A “hoe,” of course, is a tool used for weeding and gardening. We think the court reporter, unfamiliar with rap music (perhaps thankfully so), misunderstood Hayden’s response. We have taken the liberty of changing “hoe” to “ho,” a staple of rap music vernacular as, for example, when Ludacris raps “You doin’ ho activities with ho tendencies.”

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/do...yr=04&num=2032

syquestrd270 · 05-06-2005, 06:10 PM

That's great.

optik_nerve · 05-06-2005, 06:26 PM

I actually chuckled at that. Are people that fucking oblivious to the world?

Gilda · 05-06-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optik_nerve

I actually chuckled at that. Are people that fucking oblivious to the world?

Perhaps she doesn't listen to rap music and isn't around teenagers very much. I wouldn't know that 'ho' is a variant pronunciation of "whore" if I didn't spend six hours a day with teens and preteens. Being out of touch with teen slang usage doesn't make a person oblivious to the world.

The fact that one group, in this case youth culture, uses a word in a particular way doesn't mean the whole world does. To some of us, I would suspect that "hoe" is usually thought of as a garden implement or a variant form of "hello".

Lockjaw · 05-06-2005, 07:41 PM

Youth culture? I'm 27 and I've heard people say "ho" in regards to whore for as long as I can remember. Certainly predates Ludacris and the current crop of hip hop artists.

Gilda · 05-06-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

Youth culture? I'm 27 and I've heard people say "ho" in regards to whore for as long as I can remember. Certainly predates Ludacris and the current crop of hip hop artists.

Then you are young, and have been hearing it that way since you were a teenager, and would thus qualify as part of the youth culture to which I refer.

I'm 28, and I've never heard it used in that way by anyone other than my students. It's one of a group of words that they seem to not understand have a mainstream meaning different from their slang usage (retarded, gay, and dance being others).

It's not surprising to me that a court reporter is unaware of a particular slang usage.

Lockjaw · 05-06-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Then you are young, and have been hearing it that way since you were a teenager, and would thus qualify as part of the youth culture to which I refer.

I'm 28, and I've never heard it used in that way by anyone other than my students. It's one of a group of words that they seem to not understand have a mainstream meaning different from their slang usage (retarded, gay, and dance being others).

It's not surprising to me that a court reporter is unaware of a particular slang usage.

Sorry have to disagree there at least in regarding 'youth culture'.
I was hearing that from people my parent's age the entire time I was growing up.

Eh maybe it's a Southern or black thing that has filtered up to other groups. I would ask my Grandmother what she thinks 'ho' means but I'm scared she'd slap me.

Gilda · 05-06-2005, 09:06 PM

I asked my wife, who is 24, and she was unfamiliar with the usage until she heard it from me a few years ago.

My point is that it's a slang usage, and it shouldn't be surprising that not everyone in the mainstream is familiar with every slang usage.

flat5 · 05-07-2005, 02:17 AM

I believe "ho" is from Black culture

from at least the Seventies

Keist · 05-09-2005, 03:45 PM

Bahahaha, Thats Clasic. ^^

yatzr · 05-09-2005, 05:36 PM

omg that's hilarious!! The best part

Quote:

for example, when Ludacris raps “You doin’ ho activities with ho tendencies.”.

I would've loved it if they did another line or two from the song

Disk_Pusher · 05-09-2005, 10:03 PM

I believe Luda should use this in his next song targeting Mr. O'Reilly. I mean, he's been quoted in a Federal appellate decision, as an authority in "rap music vernacular". When has O'Reilly been quoted as an expert in a ruling?

I have nothing against Mr. O’Reilly; however I find his ongoing beef with Ludacris to be a source of much entertainment. I'm sick, I know. I enjoy watching fights simply for the fight itself.

05-06-2005, 09:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I asked my wife, who is 24, and she was unfamiliar with the usage until she heard it from me a few years ago. My point is that it's a slang usage, and it shouldn't be surprising that not everyone in the mainstream is familiar with every slang usage. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

05-09-2005, 03:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
Keist Upright Location: Gold Coast, Australia	Bahahaha, Thats Clasic. ^^ __________________ -Keist

05-06-2005, 06:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
syquestrd270 Tilted	That's great.

05-06-2005, 06:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
optik_nerve Psycho Location: Florida	I actually chuckled at that. Are people that fucking oblivious to the world?

05-06-2005, 07:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Youth culture? I'm 27 and I've heard people say "ho" in regards to whore for as long as I can remember. Certainly predates Ludacris and the current crop of hip hop artists.

05-07-2005, 02:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I believe "ho" is from Black culture from at least the Seventies

05-09-2005, 10:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Disk_Pusher Tilted Location: Fresno, soon to be Sacramento!	I believe Luda should use this in his next song targeting Mr. O'Reilly. I mean, he's been quoted in a Federal appellate decision, as an authority in "rap music vernacular". When has O'Reilly been quoted as an expert in a ruling? I have nothing against Mr. O’Reilly; however I find his ongoing beef with Ludacris to be a source of much entertainment. I'm sick, I know. I enjoy watching fights simply for the fight itself.