To Be Asian American - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 05-02-2005, 12:13 PM

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Of all minority groups in the United States, Asians have the unenviable distinction of having the least amount of political clout, though we are often viewed as the “model” minority. What this means is that Asians are the ideal minorities; they generally get good grades in school, they work hard and most importantly, they don’t make a large outcry in the face of discrimination. This would explain why Asians are still considered second-class citizens in the United States, the eternal foreigners. The experience shared by almost every American born Asian is being asked, “Hey, you’re pretty good at English, where are you from?” When they explain that they’re from Chicago, LA, Topeka, the questioner inevitably follows up with, “No, I mean, where are you really from?”

When Asians protest against racism in our college campuses (Catch an illegal immigrant day at a prominent Texas university), online (Facebook groups such as, “People Who Hate all asians That Talk With Each Other In There Chingy-chang-chong Shit”), on the radio (New York City’s Hot 97’s infamous “Tsunami Skit”), and even on clothes (Abercrombie and Fitch), in movies (Channing Tatum, a white former model, playing Genghis Khan in yellow face) everybody else just shakes their heads and turns the situation around by accusing us of being too sensitive. Let’s think about it this way, if any of these had been aimed towards the blacks or the Latinos, there would have been a greater outcry. These incidents would be all over the news with Rev. Jesse Jackson in the frontlines demanding justice. More often than not, there would be apologies and restitutions. But what about us? Why do we only get head shakes and smirking glances?

Part of the reasoning behind this is that we are culturally conditioned to look the other way, to avoid unpleasantness. Most of the people of my (2nd) generation grew up with immigrant parents and, if those people lived around here (Chicago), chances are, those parents owned a drycleaners. For people who are self-employed and working in the service industry, it’s important they don’t do anything to antagonize their clientele. Therefore, if a customer makes a fuss, soothe her ruffled feathers. Keep your business, your family, and yourself safe by keeping your head down and ignoring the things that don’t concern you.

Another reason for this imbalance is that Asian Americans are too divided by ethnicity and economic background. Each ethnic group believes they have suffered more than the next so when it comes time for them to unify, they can’t. There is too much baggage in their pasts that can’t be left behind so easily. Unfortunately, there are prejudices that some ethnic groups have against those of another ethnic group. For example, the Chinese and Koreans are generally hostile to and distrustful of the Japanese, while Southeast Asians, as a group are usually looked upon with disfavor by East Asians. Then there is economic prejudice which cuts across racial lines. No matter what race you are, if you are poor, you’ll be looked down upon by the affluent.

To be Asian in America is to walk a fine line between assimilation and rejection. It’s a popular belief that, in order to succeed, minorities must assimilate into the dominant culture. Theoretically, this is a sound move. After all, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, right? Unfortunately, assimilation involves ridding oneself of any reminders that one is not white. This may involve any accent, method of dress, cultural practices, food and maybe even religion.

Then, there are the reactionaries who decide to completely reject the dominant culture. Though it’s natural for individuals to have pride in their culture, it’s unnatural to become militant and nationalistic when they are living outside of their ethnic homeland. It’s unfortunate, but the ones who completely reject the white culture also have a tendency towards racism. These are the people who view the dominant culture as the “enemy” and have the mentality of “us versus them.” Oftentimes, the people in favor of complete rejection seem to forget that they are living in a country in which many different groups live within its borders. It’s completely unrealistic for them to refuse to associate with anyone who is not Asian.

Either extreme is unfortunate and illogical. Individuals who are successful at assimilating will still be viewed as an outsider because no matter good they may be at fitting in, it’s still not possible to change the face they were born with. Additionally, they will be vilified within their own communities as “sellouts” or be labeled “whitewashed.” In order to become like the dominant culture, the individual has had to sacrifice his/her culture, an important aspect of one’s identity. And for a person to reject the very country s/he is living in is unreasonable. If an individual has problems with different races mingling in one country, then that person would probably find peace where the people are homogenous, like Asia.

Is it any wonder that Asians have a difficult time unifying into one cohesive unit? There are so many schisms within our own group, each faction with its own beliefs and biases. We can’t even agree on what is offensive or not; therefore, it’s not too surprising that we aren’t taken seriously when we finally work up the courage to protest. If we want to change the injustices of the society in which we live, we must first change ourselves. How can we expect to combat racism and insensitivity when we harbor feelings of hate and judgment?

To be Asian American, then, is to learn how to walk the knife’s edge between the extremes of assimilation and rejection. Never fully conforming to nor denouncing the culture in which one is born is the way to live a balanced life. Asian Americans should hold onto their culture and be proud of the clothes, the language, the customs, and the foods. That, however, doesn’t mean that they have to go out only wearing traditional clothes, speaking only the ethnic language, only celebrating the holidays of Asia and eating only traditional foods. Really, it’s okay to adopt parts of the native culture and to develop friendships and romantic relationships with people of different racial backgrounds.

To be Asian American isn’t difficult. The key lies in the etymology of the description. To be Asian American is to be both Asian and American. We can be proud of our Asian heritage without having to give up our rights as American citizens.

A Kim is the Halfway Sr. Editor

I do not consider myself Asian American, Filipino American or anything else but American. The heritaged hyphenation doesn't add any more to my life, in fact I think that it detracts and allows people to focus on the difference instead of the similarities.

In the thread Double Standard of Racism and posters point out "Asians should just get over it...they're too sensitive...." I found it ironic that the author of this article also states that "everybody else just shakes their heads and turns the situation around by accusing us of being too sensitive."

Cuatela · 05-02-2005, 12:17 PM

What's the point of the addition? Yes, there's ancestry, but if a person is born in America, he's American. Color of skin shouldn't affect anything. I know it does, and I find myself stereotyping people a lot, but I also know it's stupid. Mistakes from hundreds of years ago shouldn't be the main reason behind certain decisions, and people shouldn't pay for their ancestors' mistakes.

My vent for today...

Supple Cow · 05-02-2005, 12:29 PM

This is a very sore topic with me. I'm American. I was born and raised here. I personally don't find it useful to attempt to unite under some banner of Asian-Americanness because that term doesn't even mean one clear thing. It could encompass so much that it's more helpful just to use the term American. Furthermore, the only unifying thread in the term Asian-American is precisely what serves to make the point "we are different and deserve to be treated differently" that causes so much trouble. All Americans are different and so are all Asian-Americans. Going out of our way to say we are Asian-American just unnecessarily emphasizes an extra degree of difference.

Cuatela · 05-02-2005, 12:43 PM

Aren't "Asian" or "African" more broad than "American" anyway? The two largest continents against the 4th-largest country (which really isn't if Alaska is discarded).

Cynthetiq · 05-02-2005, 12:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Raptor226

Aren't "Asian" or "African" more broad than "American" anyway? The two largest continents against the 4th-largest country (which really isn't if Alaska is discarded).

if you are counting countries of origins for peoples that are encompassed within Africa or Asia, then america still wins as there's more diversity in America than in Africa or Asia.

kutulu · 05-02-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor226

Aren't "Asian" or "African" more broad than "American" anyway? The two largest continents against the 4th-largest country (which really isn't if Alaska is discarded).

Pretty much. I'm sick of labels. I'd like to abandon them completely. I've never 'fit' into any group in particular. I'm 1/4 filipino, 1/4 irish, and 1/2 a few other things (french, belgain, german, etc.) but my family latches on to the filipino thing like it's supposed to mean something. Fuck, the extent of their filipino-ness is making adobo a few times a year and those egg roll-like thingies every couple of years.

Janey · 05-02-2005, 01:00 PM

I have a tough time with this. I don't remember how many times that i've been told that i speak English very well. I was even put into an ESL class in Grade 2 simply because of the way that I looked ( I was quickly moved back out). People do constantly ask where I am from. No really , where? When I insist that I am Canadian, i have to go through the whole song and dance about my parents being born in China, but I wasn't.

I try to turn the tables when the rude ones persist: 'where are you from? Canada? no really, tell me... England? Poland?' and 'You speak english very well, and you're from Italy?" Oh well, you get pleasure where you can.

But the racism (?) i hesitate to use a word that is loaded, but has no real meaning, is subtle. Just the other day i was waiting in line to buy a lottery ticket, when an older (white) man budded right in front. AND the kiosk operator started to serve him! She saw exactly what happened. I spoke up, something neither of them expected: ' Excuse me, but there is a line up, and I am next.' They both continued to ignore me, so i spoke up louder, and he finally stepped back, no apology from either of them.

They were not expecting an Asian girl to defend herself vociferously. much less speak up for herself, in perfect English! It happens constantly.

FngKestrel · 05-02-2005, 02:27 PM

This was a big issue growing up for me. Born in Jersey and coming to California, I spent a lot of time wavering between peer groups. One peer group was all immigrant Chinese that only spoke to each other in Chinese and read Chinese novels. The other peer group was a group of Caucasians who were so American they practically had the apple pie on the window sill. Both sides looked at me like I was a freak.

My mom is fervently Chinese and still views things with great distinction. My extended family emigrated from China to Taiwan and even though they've lived there for at least a generation, my mom said to me a while back, "You're not TAIWANESE, you're a CHINESE." She was very clear in her distinction. My only response to her was, "I'm an AMERICAN." Whether that distinction meant anything to her is another matter.

Coppertop · 05-02-2005, 02:29 PM

Living in the SF Bay Area I've been exposed to more cultures than I can count. It's never been a big deal to me. I think I've always taken it for granted, as when I travel to other parts of the country I am reminded of how... differently accepting other people can be.

And although I am white, I too am asked on occassion where in the world my ancestry lies. So it's not exclusive to any one group of people.

abaya · 05-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Hmm, growing up in Seattle, I didn't really get any of this. I'm half-Thai (my parents were both immigrants) and we had a very Thai home, but I am also very American, culturally. I think it depends what part of the country you're in, from my experience. The Northwest is a pretty tolerant place for the most part, though it has it's bad spots.

The only racism I've really experienced was in Iceland, believe it or not... they're pretty damn xenophobic (not everyone, but a lot of the working class, and more males than females), especially because a lot of Thai women are believed to be mail-order brides. So they look at me as a half-breed (which I am, since I am half-Icelandic)

... that's actually where I am doing my anthropological fieldwork, among that immigrant population.

Of course, you know, my bf is Lebanese (born and raised there), and if we ever have kids... well, they're going to be global citizens, that's all I can say.

Gilda · 05-02-2005, 02:55 PM

I think of myself as American first, and my ethnic background isn't really anything more than an interesting topic of discussion, as it has no real impact on my life. I do occasionally get students in my class for the first time questioning whether I'm really Miss Nakamura because I don't look Japanese/Asian.

My wife, Grace comes from the most ethnically diverse place in the US, Hawaii, the only state IIRC that has no ethnic majority; everyone is a minority. The only majority there is that most people are of mixed ethnicity, Grace is Japanese/Polynesian. The population is about equal parts Japanese, Filipino, white (chiefly Scottish, IIRC), and Polynesian with two dozen other groups in smaller numbers. There does, in my experience, seem to be a tendancy to think of themselves as Hawaiian first, and American second, and a member of their ethnic group third.

Her pet peeve is the number of people who don't seem to realize that Hawaii is part of the United States, and she's a native of the United States just as they are.

Questions about her ethnicity, however, don't bother her at all. She likes talking about the blending of her father's Japanese traditions and her mother's Polynesian (or ethnic Hawaiian) traditions, and we practice many of the traditions she got from her parents in our home.

However, if you walk into our home and find someone wearing a Kimono or Cheongsam, it's gonna be me, cuz she's strictly a mainstream American fashion girl, while I like to experiment.

maleficent · 05-02-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Her pet peeve is the number of people who don't seem to realize that Hawaii is part of the United States, and she's a native of the United States just as they are.

Sadly, that's true... I was out with some buddies some months back at a sushi restuarant, and she brought up the subject of guess where she's from? (I lost with Cleveland) One of my buddies, an extremely intelligent (but lacking no common sense) guessed correctly that she was from Hawaii. He then continued, in a lame effort to flirt I think, to ask her about her green card status... My other friend and I exchanged perplexed looks, but being good friends, we allowed him to dig himself a deeper hole. The waitress, being ever so polite as she was working on a tip, asked him ever so politely why she woudl need a green card... Because Hawaii was a state and she was a US Citizen. She handled it so beautifully it was clear that it's not the first time she had ever encountered an imbecile like my friend, I don't think I have ever laughed so hard at what should have been grammar school geography.

kutulu · 05-02-2005, 03:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Janey

I try to turn the tables when the rude ones persist: 'where are you from? Canada? no really, tell me... England? Poland?' and 'You speak english very well, and you're from Italy?" Oh well, you get pleasure where you can.

That's fucking great. I'd love to see someone to that!

Vincentt · 05-02-2005, 04:51 PM

I've had many 'asian american' friends. In fact the ones I knew from high school, I never once even thought about them as being 'asian'. You may think "yeah right" but it was in college when someone said "where is he from?"
I said "who?", "Oh, he is american"
So I can understand this.

On a side note, you should see how people from America / Europe are portrayed on Japanese TV. I think we are kinder in the States.

guthmund · 05-02-2005, 09:28 PM

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Originally Posted by abaya

Hmm, growing up in Seattle, I didn't really get any of this. I'm half-Thai (my parents were both immigrants)

edit, edit, edit... So they look at me as a half-breed (which I am, since I am half-Icelandic)

...

So....you're half-icelandic and half-Thai.... There's a story there...I just know it...

I don't have any problems like this as there's no doubt in anyone's mind that I'm painfully white and by extension must be American.

I use to work with a fellow (his name was Tim, but everyone called him Lo-Pan because he looked like that guy from Big Trouble in Little China) whose parents were from China, but he was born in America. We went out for breakfast one night and one of the fellows we were with (he was getting a tattoo) brought a bunch of examples of Chinese script and asked the guy to translate them for him. After about twenty minutes of, "this one means "peace," this one "happiness" and the like the tattoo fellow walks away and I ask Tim if any of what he said was true. He looked at me and replied, "Of course not. I grew up in Southern California....Duude."

StarCrossed · 05-03-2005, 01:13 AM

A lot of people overgeneralize and make assumptions. I am sure, in most cases, they dont mean any harm. People love to put things in categories. In a ethnic point of view, the U.S. will always have some kind of racial problem, whether it be; racism or sterotyping. I have been with people and just because they see a Asian person, they make a comment like, "he look like Jackie Chan." Its like, "hey your white, you look like Kevin Costner." Its just the way the world turns. One day though, 100's of years from now, everyone will have bit of every culture, due to racial mixing, and when you think of the States, you think of this new breed of people; the American melting pot. I wish i could be there and see something like that. A land of no racism or bias. Everyone will all be looked as a equal. But yeah, its another unfortunate reality off life.

reiii · 05-03-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

However, if you walk into our home and find someone wearing a Kimono or Cheongsam, it's gonna be me, cuz she's strictly a mainstream American fashion girl, while I like to experiment.

lol! Nicely done...

My girlfriend is also from Hawaii, though she's white as can be. HI, is a real unique place, I love how over the top patriotic it gets during holidays (veterans, fourth of july etc.). I think they have a need to reinforce the fact that they are part of the U.S.

Keep in mind that Hawaii is the most geographically isolated island group in the world, it is pretty strange that they are part of the U.S.

JustJess · 05-03-2005, 07:44 AM

Hm, I tend to ask all kinds of questions about ancestry, especially if you have a name I haven't heard or a look that's not just vanilla white - and I'll ask those people too. I have a fascination about where people originated, and if they kept any of their culture from any of those other places. I will also ask if they happen to speak any of those non-english languages if they're not more than 2nd generation american. I just find it amazing how people are blended and mixed and wonderful and interesting. In fact, I was talking to a friend just the other day (SC!) about how we both think people of mixed heritage have better genetics - my friends that are "blends" tend to be more beautiful and more gifted than other friends - and my other friends are no slouches either. I think it's Mother Nature (or whoever) trying to tell us something. (i.e. Supple Cows and Abayas and all are something to aim for in our own kids!)
Would this sort of discussion offend any of you who get a lot of questions already?

I know I have some idiot thought tracks in my mind about other ethnicities, but I tend to only notice those if a person of that ethnicity is showcasing one of them. For example (since 'asian-americans' are of topic), if I actually SEE a person who is clearly of asian descent driving really really slow, I will connect the two. But it won't cross my mind otherwise. And I will connect it also if it's someone very old, or from Florida.

The stereotyping goes for us plain ol' white chicks too - I have been told I look like pretty much every single young blond actress out there. And no, I don't. People just have a comfort level - they feel better if we fit into a familiar category.

*Nikki* · 05-03-2005, 07:55 AM

I guess I don't see the big deal. If you are indeed half chinese or your parents were born in China why is it such a huge deal if someone thinks you are also? Are you denying your heritage?

I was not born in Italy, but my grandfather was. I am Italian but I am also American due to the fact that I was born and raised in America. However, my heritage is Italian. If someone thinks I am Italian that is wonderful. Most of the time though, people think I am Hawaiian or Spanish and various other ethnic groups. My uniqueness makes it hard for people to guess. More often then not people guess American Indian.

I am proud to be me, I don't care where people think I am from. I guess I don't really see it as being a huge deal.

Cynthetiq · 05-03-2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I guess I don't see the big deal. If you are indeed half chinese or your parents were born in China why is it such a huge deal if someone thinks you are also? Are you denying your heritage?

I was not born in Italy, but my grandfather was. I am Italian but I am also American due to the fact that I was born and raised in America. However, my heritage is Italian. If someone thinks I am Italian that is wonderful. Most of the time though, people think I am Hawaiian or Spanish and various other ethnic groups. My uniqueness makes it hard for people to guess. More often then not people guess American Indian.

I am proud to be me, I don't care where people think I am from. I guess I don't really see it as being a huge deal.

The question being asked isn't "What's your heritage?"

the conversation goes as follows:

"Where are you from?"

"I'm from New York City"

"No I mean orginally..."

"Oh I was born in LA, grew up in California."

"No I mean where's your parent's from..."

Get asked that question hundreds of times, and it's annoying. Literally that conversation is verbatim most times I meet someone new...

boredom · 05-03-2005, 08:18 AM

I dont really care about bieng an Asian American. The supposed good qualities that come from Asians i never inherited(the supposed brains i have but the hard working flew out the window so the brains never get used). As for bieng an American i dont even see my self as one, i live in America but so what?

The thing that really annoys me is when people ask you to say something in your native language. Im not a dog here to perform for you and entertain you.

Wingless · 05-03-2005, 08:44 AM

I guess I'm the minority here when I say that I do have some pride in being Asian American, but I'm definitely not an "AZN PRIDE" Asian American. I eat my rice and adobo with pride, I gather with other Filipinos at parties and watch as our parents dance to old 90's dance music, I was my friends partner for her Debutantes Ball...

But at the same time I don't speak Tagalog. I eat more fried chicken than fish. On a daily basis, if someone were to live my life, the only time they would realize they're Filipino is when they see my mom every morning. My bedroom could easily be confused with any other American teen's bedroom - cars, chicks, video games (oh is there anything else to life?

).

Some of my closest friends are white guys who hunt, fish, and race muscle cars. I fit in with them more than anyone else. But I still have pride in being Asian American. It sets me apart from them.

snowy · 05-03-2005, 09:00 AM

I run around with a lot of Asian-Americans here at school--last year they dragged me to the Asian Pacific American Association dance here at school where I was 1) the tallest woman in the room and 2) one of three white girls. For someone who has grown up in the PacNW, which is very white, that was a bit of a culture shock. But if there's one thing being friends with all of them has taught me, it's that they're all from very different places and generationally, there's always a different gap between them and where their ancestors are from--I am a first-generation American (no one ever guesses that one, as I'm white) on my father's side, and so many of their families have been here even longer than half of mine.

But I see the difficulties a lot of them face--the racial assumptions, the questions, etc. Once someone told my best girlfriend (a beautiful blend of Norwegian and Japanese blood), "wow, for an Asian, you speak English really well"--in my presence! I had to inform them that that is what happens when you are born and raised in the United States. Would they say the same thing to my father, who was born in the Netherlands? No, of course not--he's white.

One thing I found interesting in the article was the mention that because Asian-Americans are all from different backgrounds culturally they have a harder time unifying. That doesn't seem to be the case around these parts--my friends are from all over the place, and they all seem to get along fine. I'm thinking that might be something that went with their parents' generation, and that they all think just as most of you do--they're Americans, and nothing else should matter.

Supple Cow · 05-03-2005, 09:09 AM

I just don't think it's that useful to have terms that get applied with such a broad stroke to people who have very little in common. In ancient history, it made more sense to say "the Greeks" or "the Romans" (etc.) because travel was so difficult and racial mixing not very widespread and all that. These days there doesn't really have to be a "story" to a racially mixed couple... my brother and his wife met at a bar and she thought he was gay when she first saw him - does that count as a "story"? I find our obsessive need to group ourselves using what I wish were archaic terms very irritating. If there's a club for young women from California who live in New York... awesome. If there's a club for New Yorkers who grew up in the U.S. whose parents emigrated from a third world country... great, sign me up. If there's a club for people who are Asian-American (and there is at my school)... no thank you. Why not? Because I'm not about reinforcing arbitrarily drawn lines. I bet if I went to the Vietnamese Students Association and told them I was half Vietnamese but didn't speak the language, they would welcome me with open arms. Yet my white friend who has studied the language for years, lived there for a period, and plans to move there one day has repeatedly signed up for their email list and mysteriously never gets emails from them.

And Cyn - it's amazing! Have you been on all those dates and to all those parties with me all these years? How do you know exactly what a million people have asked me in my lifetime? BTW, I've been meaning to ask you... I know you live in NYC and grew up in California, but where are you really from???

Halx · 05-03-2005, 09:34 AM

Having no culture or heritage of my own to really grasp onto (my ancestors really liked to mix it up) I have to smirk when people get all uppity about their own culture. I mean, *I* manage to get along without it. I don't see how it's so necessary for other people.

I have friends who are all sorts of colors and it never really mattered much. All that has affected how I treat them is how they act.

I don't believe there is very much else to it.

JustJess · 05-03-2005, 09:48 AM

Huh. I never realized I was an asshole.
I'm sorry, guys - and I know both SC and Cyn in regular life - why wouldn't you tell me I was being an idiot?
I have an honest interest in everyone's mixing, no matter the person. I didn't know that friends that aren't Caucasian-appearing have such constantly annoying questions on it.

Cynthetiq · 05-03-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Huh. I never realized I was an asshole.
I'm sorry, guys - and I know both SC and Cyn in regular life - why wouldn't you tell me I was being an idiot?
I have an honest interest in everyone's mixing, no matter the person. I didn't know that friends that aren't Caucasian-appearing have such constantly annoying questions on it.

part of it I'll answer with a sentence from the article:

Part of the reasoning behind this is that we are culturally conditioned to look the other way, to avoid unpleasantness.

honestly, I've heard it so many times, that I can easily just run the track in my head like an automaton. I also don't think about it that much that when it does happen I don't think, "I'm going to explain to this person that it's annoying..."

But let's put honesty and communication on the table, there's a huge difference to someone that's just making small talk and one that's genuinely interested in learning about another persons heritage. It's taken you wanting to get to know us, that we in turn have let you know (without being passive aggressive) that it's something we don't like.

For all intrinisic purposes, I don't see the brown of my skin color. Even as I type this and i can see my arms and hands, but I don't think about it as such. When I walk down the street with Skogafoss I don't think of myself as an asian and a white girl walking down the street, I think of "us" walking down the street.

hmmm.. maybe this summer I'll wear 2 braids and see how many people ask me instantly what tribe I'm from. Yes, that happens alot too.

*Nikki* · 05-03-2005, 01:31 PM

Cyn I think that if people ask you what tribe you are from, it is because they are interested.

I don't even have to wear my hair in braids and I get asked that exact question. They say "you have high cheek bones" like this alone make me American Indian.

Go figure.

Cynthetiq · 05-03-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

Cyn I think that if people ask you what tribe you are from, it is because they are interested.

I don't even have to wear my hair in braids and I get asked that exact question. They say "you have high cheek bones" like this alone make me American Indian.

Go figure.

Do you have other features that could make you look American Indian? (I haven't seen any pictures of Nikki)

I beg to differ. I am saying that their interest is only superficial, shallow conversation at best.

Most the time it's small talk. Most the time it's just something to pass the time, meeting someone the first time at a bar, event, outing, gathering, party, club, etc. etc. etc.

If they are truly interested, then they would ask EVERYONE "Where are you from?" just like they ask, "So what do you do for a living?" ala JustJess

(I personally try very hard to not ever use that for conversation fodder.)

abaya · 05-03-2005, 02:38 PM

Cyn, I will just gently point out that you were pretty damn excited about me being Icelandic (even if I'm only half, and not really culturally)... why did it matter so much to you? (I certainly don't mind, I love celebrating my two immigrant parents' halves... I call myself "Thaicelandic" as a really lame joke!)

Glava · 05-03-2005, 04:46 PM

On the other side of the equation, I am from Ukraine, and people always assume I'm a born-and-bred American because I am white.

On a recent scholarship application, the closest entry to "white" was "Anglo-American", as if other ethnicities here don't speak speak English natively. I picked "other" because my native languages are Russian and Ukrainian, so I'm not "Anglo", even though I knew very well what they meant.

Gilda · 05-03-2005, 05:22 PM

[hijack]

Glava: I'm mostly Irish (on my dad's side) and Ukranian/Russian (on my Mom's; her parents left in one of the Stalinist purges), and the Anglo=white thing annoys me, too.

In Rocky III, Rocky's making a passionate speech, in which he refers to himself as an "anglo who held onto the title longer than he shoulda". For the longest time, I thought this was a joke; the olive comlpected, black-haired, "Italian Stallion" calling himself an Anglo. It wasn't until much later that I learned that for a great many people who don't know better, Anglo doesn't refer to just Anglo-Saxons but to any white person.

Puerto Ricans also get a raw deal. They're native born American citizens, yet they're routinely assumed to be Mexican immigrants or even worse, that they're immigrants from Puerto Rico, as if it's a foreign country. I once heard a Puerto Rican student arguing in vain with a couple of boys trying to convince them of this, they thinking she was deluded.

[/hijack]

I don't think it's rude to ask about someone's ethnicity, but arguing with them about it is. I remember Tiger Woods being criticized by a radical black activist group for saying that he thinks of himself as equally African and Asian American.

We should let others label themselves, and call them what they want to be called.

Asuka{eve} · 05-03-2005, 06:03 PM

Im half white half asian. My life has sucked.

Supple Cow · 05-03-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Huh. I never realized I was an asshole.
I'm sorry, guys - and I know both SC and Cyn in regular life - why wouldn't you tell me I was being an idiot?
I have an honest interest in everyone's mixing, no matter the person. I didn't know that friends that aren't Caucasian-appearing have such constantly annoying questions on it.

Here's the thing. If I am ever annoyed or insulted by questions like this, I am very good about making it known. It's not that I get asked constantly (though it can be a little tiring), it's that most people who ask aren't genuinely curious about me; my race and ethnicity are just another tidbit of party small-talk to them.

I can appreciate that somebody I am getting to know would want to know more about where I came from as a way to know me better in general. I do not appreciate when somebody makes me go out of my way to explain it to them so that they can feel less guilty about never having seen somebody with my combination of hair, skin color and facial features. After all, it's not my problem if somebody I pass on the street thinks I'm Polynesian or Laotian. But it sure is a pain in the ass that I'm expected to waste my time answering their questions and being reminded that I apparently look different from all the other people they see on the street.

K-Wise · 05-03-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FngKestrel

My mom is fervently Chinese and still views things with great distinction. My extended family emigrated from China to Taiwan and even though they've lived there for at least a generation, my mom said to me a while back, "You're not TAIWANESE, you're a CHINESE." She was very clear in her distinction. My only response to her was, "I'm an AMERICAN." Whether that distinction meant anything to her is another matter.

I can respect and admire that. I on the other hand always say what I am. I'm a mexican..technically Mexican-American. I know I wasn't BORN in Mexico but I'm still a mexican regardless ya know? I'm proud of it. It's the differences that make us unique and I don't want anyone to take that away from me. In the end we're all human so we are all the same in that aspect but my culture makes me different from other cultures I would hate to deny that it'd be like I'm ashamed of it which I'm not

. Watching George Lopez comedy routines is so nostalgiac it's a joy haha.

Asta!!

jbw97361 · 05-03-2005, 08:02 PM

well of course everyone is going to have preconceived notions about people when they meet them for the first time. What is important is being able to break those notions quickly when the person in question is able to demonstrate ability contrary to the notion.

I fully admit that i use the preconceived notions. For instance, when first meeting a new asian student on campus here, I make a point to speak very politely and clearly to that person. As I have learned, if that person IS from a foreign country, it makes everything easier. However, a fair portion of the time, they end up being from New York or somewhere else decidedly american. So what? Is there any sure fire way to distinguish a foreigner from an american on first notice? NO. Err on the side of caution at first? Sure. Be flexible? Definitely!

Janey · 05-04-2005, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuka{eve}

Im half white half asian. My life has sucked.

can you elaborate? what specifically sucks about your life?

Supple Cow · 05-04-2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarCrossed

One day though, 100's of years from now, everyone will have bit of every culture, due to racial mixing, and when you think of the States, you think of this new breed of people; the American melting pot. I wish i could be there and see something like that. A land of no racism or bias. Everyone will all be looked as a equal. But yeah, its another unfortunate reality off life.

Hate to point this out, but this is pretty far-fetched. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I think "culture" is going to very persistent and there will still be the people who say "I'm [insert any race or ethnicity] and so will be my spouse and children" hundreds of years from now. Although, maybe there will be a new distinct ethnicity of the US - that, I might believe.

This whole idea of a super-breed of homogeneous humans in the future is very problematic. For one thing, if we were to look at today's racial/ethnic conflicts, there are two things that could change: everyone's attitudes and everyone's racial-ethnic identities. To me, it's very clear that the problem is not that everyone is different, it's that some people don't know how to behave respectfully around different people and pretend that there are people that are more the same than others. (But even that assumption that somebody who is racially and ethnically Chinese is more like me than somebody who is white and American is problematic.) Doesn't it seem like a better utopian future to imagine involves changing people's attitudes about difference rather than waiting around for everybody to have so much interracial sex that we are all the same? (Besides, this whole idea of everybody being a single ambiguously-mixed race is the same kind of solution to racial-ethnic conflict that Hitler had, only more liberal in its application.)

Squishor · 05-04-2005, 06:20 AM

This whole subject is one I have a lot of feelings about, since I grew up in Japan from ages 8 to 13. I became very acculturated - I spoke Japanese, ate Japanese food, went to a Japanese school, etc. It was very hard for me to come back and try to mix back into this culture and I still deal with some cultural difficulties, although after 15 years or so I managed to adapt. It's just that my experiences over there became a very deep part of who I am. I didn't realize what was going on until I took an "Asian in America" history class. The teacher, who was 3rd generation Japanese-American, came in one day and ran down a list of about 30 cultural/social traits generally associated with Asian-Americans. Guess what? Almost all of them described me. So I realized that I am almost like an Asian in disguise. I frequently encounter racism and ignorance on the part of my Caucasian bretheren, since they voice it in my presence without realizing how I'll react. It's a very touchy subject for me. I have been angered and disgusted so many times! My perception, though, is that the problem is lessening - at least it seems much better than it was in the 1970s when I came back. There is more "cool" associated with Asian things now, and more knowledge of Asian culture(s), at least East Asian anyway.

I used to go out with a Korean guy who'd tell people he was an Eskimo when they asked where he was from.

He was from Southern California.

sashime76 · 05-04-2005, 10:36 AM

Heritage? I'm not sure how this is defined in today's day and age. Genghis Khan and the Mongols conquered Northern /Southern China and pretty much the entire Asia. Troops and merchants were sent to Afghanistan, Persia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Eastern Europe. As far as the history tells, anyone from the above region can very well be part Chinese/Mongol, even though minute.
http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h11mon.htm

I'm part Dutch from my mother's side from 3 generations ago. My wife is part English from her mother's side as well. Although I wasn't born in the U.S. but I have lived here much longer than I had in my birth country - Taiwan.

My two boys were born Ameican citizen and that's what they are. I'm not Taiwanese-American, Taiwanese-Chinese or even Chinese-American. I do not have dual citizenship and I have sworn as an American citizen some 18 or 19 year ago. I have had friends of all races growing up in Southern CA. It wasn't evident until my family moved out to the Mid West then we realized we ARE the minority.

I remember going to a Starbucks in the Indy area three years ago. As soon as we walked in, we immediately drew everyone's attention. Some were friendly and some were...well, not so friendly. One parent pulled her kids from the sitting area as we walked pass.

Another time at a shopping mall in Indy, I was pushing my son in the stroller and a friendly older gentleman asked how old my son was. Well, he literally spelled it out, "H_o_w o_l_ d i_s y_o_u_r b_o_y? He assumed I didn't speak English or couldn't speak it well. It didn't offend me and I replied how old my son was.

It's very likely my sons will come home one day with some cute little blond, redhead or brunette. My grand children will likely bare little resemblance of their Asian heritage. Some of my mom's friends have grand kids with blond hair and blue eyes. Another one or two generations after the only way to tell is perhaps through the family name. Then again, that can be legally changed, too.

Only heritage we need to know is that we are all Homo Sapiens.

05-02-2005, 12:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	What's the point of the addition? Yes, there's ancestry, but if a person is born in America, he's American. Color of skin shouldn't affect anything. I know it does, and I find myself stereotyping people a lot, but I also know it's stupid. Mistakes from hundreds of years ago shouldn't be the main reason behind certain decisions, and people shouldn't pay for their ancestors' mistakes. My vent for today... __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

05-02-2005, 12:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	This is a very sore topic with me. I'm American. I was born and raised here. I personally don't find it useful to attempt to unite under some banner of Asian-Americanness because that term doesn't even mean one clear thing. It could encompass so much that it's more helpful just to use the term American. Furthermore, the only unifying thread in the term Asian-American is precisely what serves to make the point "we are different and deserve to be treated differently" that causes so much trouble. All Americans are different and so are all Asian-Americans. Going out of our way to say we are Asian-American just unnecessarily emphasizes an extra degree of difference. __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

05-02-2005, 12:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	Aren't "Asian" or "African" more broad than "American" anyway? The two largest continents against the 4th-largest country (which really isn't if Alaska is discarded). __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

05-02-2005, 02:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Hmm, growing up in Seattle, I didn't really get any of this. I'm half-Thai (my parents were both immigrants) and we had a very Thai home, but I am also very American, culturally. I think it depends what part of the country you're in, from my experience. The Northwest is a pretty tolerant place for the most part, though it has it's bad spots. The only racism I've really experienced was in Iceland, believe it or not... they're pretty damn xenophobic (not everyone, but a lot of the working class, and more males than females), especially because a lot of Thai women are believed to be mail-order brides. So they look at me as a half-breed (which I am, since I am half-Icelandic) ... that's actually where I am doing my anthropological fieldwork, among that immigrant population. Of course, you know, my bf is Lebanese (born and raised there), and if we ever have kids... well, they're going to be global citizens, that's all I can say. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-02-2005, 02:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I think of myself as American first, and my ethnic background isn't really anything more than an interesting topic of discussion, as it has no real impact on my life. I do occasionally get students in my class for the first time questioning whether I'm really Miss Nakamura because I don't look Japanese/Asian. My wife, Grace comes from the most ethnically diverse place in the US, Hawaii, the only state IIRC that has no ethnic majority; everyone is a minority. The only majority there is that most people are of mixed ethnicity, Grace is Japanese/Polynesian. The population is about equal parts Japanese, Filipino, white (chiefly Scottish, IIRC), and Polynesian with two dozen other groups in smaller numbers. There does, in my experience, seem to be a tendancy to think of themselves as Hawaiian first, and American second, and a member of their ethnic group third. Her pet peeve is the number of people who don't seem to realize that Hawaii is part of the United States, and she's a native of the United States just as they are. Questions about her ethnicity, however, don't bother her at all. She likes talking about the blending of her father's Japanese traditions and her mother's Polynesian (or ethnic Hawaiian) traditions, and we practice many of the traditions she got from her parents in our home. However, if you walk into our home and find someone wearing a Kimono or Cheongsam, it's gonna be me, cuz she's strictly a mainstream American fashion girl, while I like to experiment. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

05-02-2005, 01:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	I have a tough time with this. I don't remember how many times that i've been told that i speak English very well. I was even put into an ESL class in Grade 2 simply because of the way that I looked ( I was quickly moved back out). People do constantly ask where I am from. No really , where? When I insist that I am Canadian, i have to go through the whole song and dance about my parents being born in China, but I wasn't. I try to turn the tables when the rude ones persist: 'where are you from? Canada? no really, tell me... England? Poland?' and 'You speak english very well, and you're from Italy?" Oh well, you get pleasure where you can. But the racism (?) i hesitate to use a word that is loaded, but has no real meaning, is subtle. Just the other day i was waiting in line to buy a lottery ticket, when an older (white) man budded right in front. AND the kiosk operator started to serve him! She saw exactly what happened. I spoke up, something neither of them expected: ' Excuse me, but there is a line up, and I am next.' They both continued to ignore me, so i spoke up louder, and he finally stepped back, no apology from either of them. They were not expecting an Asian girl to defend herself vociferously. much less speak up for herself, in perfect English! It happens constantly.

05-02-2005, 02:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
FngKestrel Junkie	This was a big issue growing up for me. Born in Jersey and coming to California, I spent a lot of time wavering between peer groups. One peer group was all immigrant Chinese that only spoke to each other in Chinese and read Chinese novels. The other peer group was a group of Caucasians who were so American they practically had the apple pie on the window sill. Both sides looked at me like I was a freak. My mom is fervently Chinese and still views things with great distinction. My extended family emigrated from China to Taiwan and even though they've lived there for at least a generation, my mom said to me a while back, "You're not TAIWANESE, you're a CHINESE." She was very clear in her distinction. My only response to her was, "I'm an AMERICAN." Whether that distinction meant anything to her is another matter.

05-02-2005, 02:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Living in the SF Bay Area I've been exposed to more cultures than I can count. It's never been a big deal to me. I think I've always taken it for granted, as when I travel to other parts of the country I am reminded of how... differently accepting other people can be. And although I am white, I too am asked on occassion where in the world my ancestry lies. So it's not exclusive to any one group of people.

05-02-2005, 04:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	I've had many 'asian american' friends. In fact the ones I knew from high school, I never once even thought about them as being 'asian'. You may think "yeah right" but it was in college when someone said "where is he from?" I said "who?", "Oh, he is american" So I can understand this. On a side note, you should see how people from America / Europe are portrayed on Japanese TV. I think we are kinder in the States. __________________ .

05-03-2005, 01:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
StarCrossed Upright Location: 815click	A lot of people overgeneralize and make assumptions. I am sure, in most cases, they dont mean any harm. People love to put things in categories. In a ethnic point of view, the U.S. will always have some kind of racial problem, whether it be; racism or sterotyping. I have been with people and just because they see a Asian person, they make a comment like, "he look like Jackie Chan." Its like, "hey your white, you look like Kevin Costner." Its just the way the world turns. One day though, 100's of years from now, everyone will have bit of every culture, due to racial mixing, and when you think of the States, you think of this new breed of people; the American melting pot. I wish i could be there and see something like that. A land of no racism or bias. Everyone will all be looked as a equal. But yeah, its another unfortunate reality off life. __________________ "Everybody plays the fool sometimes" Last edited by StarCrossed; 05-03-2005 at 01:15 AM..

05-03-2005, 07:44 AM	#18 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Hm, I tend to ask all kinds of questions about ancestry, especially if you have a name I haven't heard or a look that's not just vanilla white - and I'll ask those people too. I have a fascination about where people originated, and if they kept any of their culture from any of those other places. I will also ask if they happen to speak any of those non-english languages if they're not more than 2nd generation american. I just find it amazing how people are blended and mixed and wonderful and interesting. In fact, I was talking to a friend just the other day (SC!) about how we both think people of mixed heritage have better genetics - my friends that are "blends" tend to be more beautiful and more gifted than other friends - and my other friends are no slouches either. I think it's Mother Nature (or whoever) trying to tell us something. (i.e. Supple Cows and Abayas and all are something to aim for in our own kids!) Would this sort of discussion offend any of you who get a lot of questions already? I know I have some idiot thought tracks in my mind about other ethnicities, but I tend to only notice those if a person of that ethnicity is showcasing one of them. For example (since 'asian-americans' are of topic), if I actually SEE a person who is clearly of asian descent driving really really slow, I will connect the two. But it won't cross my mind otherwise. And I will connect it also if it's someone very old, or from Florida. The stereotyping goes for us plain ol' white chicks too - I have been told I look like pretty much every single young blond actress out there. And no, I don't. People just have a comfort level - they feel better if we fit into a familiar category. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

05-03-2005, 07:55 AM	#19 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I guess I don't see the big deal. If you are indeed half chinese or your parents were born in China why is it such a huge deal if someone thinks you are also? Are you denying your heritage? I was not born in Italy, but my grandfather was. I am Italian but I am also American due to the fact that I was born and raised in America. However, my heritage is Italian. If someone thinks I am Italian that is wonderful. Most of the time though, people think I am Hawaiian or Spanish and various other ethnic groups. My uniqueness makes it hard for people to guess. More often then not people guess American Indian. I am proud to be me, I don't care where people think I am from. I guess I don't really see it as being a huge deal.

05-03-2005, 08:18 AM	#21 (permalink)
boredom Insane Location: California	I dont really care about bieng an Asian American. The supposed good qualities that come from Asians i never inherited(the supposed brains i have but the hard working flew out the window so the brains never get used). As for bieng an American i dont even see my self as one, i live in America but so what? The thing that really annoys me is when people ask you to say something in your native language. Im not a dog here to perform for you and entertain you. __________________ Wiggum: Find anything this time, boys? Cop: Uh, no sign of him, Chief. Wiggum: Princess Opal? Opal: I see nothing here, but I'm afraid it's splitsville for Delta Burke and Major Dad. Wiggum: But they seem so happy! -- ``Bart the Murderer''

05-03-2005, 08:44 AM	#22 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	I guess I'm the minority here when I say that I do have some pride in being Asian American, but I'm definitely not an "AZN PRIDE" Asian American. I eat my rice and adobo with pride, I gather with other Filipinos at parties and watch as our parents dance to old 90's dance music, I was my friends partner for her Debutantes Ball... But at the same time I don't speak Tagalog. I eat more fried chicken than fish. On a daily basis, if someone were to live my life, the only time they would realize they're Filipino is when they see my mom every morning. My bedroom could easily be confused with any other American teen's bedroom - cars, chicks, video games (oh is there anything else to life? ). Some of my closest friends are white guys who hunt, fish, and race muscle cars. I fit in with them more than anyone else. But I still have pride in being Asian American. It sets me apart from them. __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor

05-03-2005, 09:00 AM	#23 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I run around with a lot of Asian-Americans here at school--last year they dragged me to the Asian Pacific American Association dance here at school where I was 1) the tallest woman in the room and 2) one of three white girls. For someone who has grown up in the PacNW, which is very white, that was a bit of a culture shock. But if there's one thing being friends with all of them has taught me, it's that they're all from very different places and generationally, there's always a different gap between them and where their ancestors are from--I am a first-generation American (no one ever guesses that one, as I'm white) on my father's side, and so many of their families have been here even longer than half of mine. But I see the difficulties a lot of them face--the racial assumptions, the questions, etc. Once someone told my best girlfriend (a beautiful blend of Norwegian and Japanese blood), "wow, for an Asian, you speak English really well"--in my presence! I had to inform them that that is what happens when you are born and raised in the United States. Would they say the same thing to my father, who was born in the Netherlands? No, of course not--he's white. One thing I found interesting in the article was the mention that because Asian-Americans are all from different backgrounds culturally they have a harder time unifying. That doesn't seem to be the case around these parts--my friends are from all over the place, and they all seem to get along fine. I'm thinking that might be something that went with their parents' generation, and that they all think just as most of you do--they're Americans, and nothing else should matter. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

05-03-2005, 09:09 AM	#24 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	I just don't think it's that useful to have terms that get applied with such a broad stroke to people who have very little in common. In ancient history, it made more sense to say "the Greeks" or "the Romans" (etc.) because travel was so difficult and racial mixing not very widespread and all that. These days there doesn't really have to be a "story" to a racially mixed couple... my brother and his wife met at a bar and she thought he was gay when she first saw him - does that count as a "story"? I find our obsessive need to group ourselves using what I wish were archaic terms very irritating. If there's a club for young women from California who live in New York... awesome. If there's a club for New Yorkers who grew up in the U.S. whose parents emigrated from a third world country... great, sign me up. If there's a club for people who are Asian-American (and there is at my school)... no thank you. Why not? Because I'm not about reinforcing arbitrarily drawn lines. I bet if I went to the Vietnamese Students Association and told them I was half Vietnamese but didn't speak the language, they would welcome me with open arms. Yet my white friend who has studied the language for years, lived there for a period, and plans to move there one day has repeatedly signed up for their email list and mysteriously never gets emails from them. And Cyn - it's amazing! Have you been on all those dates and to all those parties with me all these years? How do you know exactly what a million people have asked me in my lifetime? BTW, I've been meaning to ask you... I know you live in NYC and grew up in California, but where are you really from??? __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

05-03-2005, 09:34 AM	#25 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Having no culture or heritage of my own to really grasp onto (my ancestors really liked to mix it up) I have to smirk when people get all uppity about their own culture. I mean, I manage to get along without it. I don't see how it's so necessary for other people. I have friends who are all sorts of colors and it never really mattered much. All that has affected how I treat them is how they act. I don't believe there is very much else to it. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

05-03-2005, 09:48 AM	#26 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Huh. I never realized I was an asshole. I'm sorry, guys - and I know both SC and Cyn in regular life - why wouldn't you tell me I was being an idiot? I have an honest interest in everyone's mixing, no matter the person. I didn't know that friends that aren't Caucasian-appearing have such constantly annoying questions on it. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

05-03-2005, 01:31 PM	#28 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	Cyn I think that if people ask you what tribe you are from, it is because they are interested. I don't even have to wear my hair in braids and I get asked that exact question. They say "you have high cheek bones" like this alone make me American Indian. Go figure.

05-03-2005, 02:38 PM	#30 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Cyn, I will just gently point out that you were pretty damn excited about me being Icelandic (even if I'm only half, and not really culturally)... why did it matter so much to you? (I certainly don't mind, I love celebrating my two immigrant parents' halves... I call myself "Thaicelandic" as a really lame joke!) __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-03-2005, 04:46 PM	#31 (permalink)
Glava Betitled	On the other side of the equation, I am from Ukraine, and people always assume I'm a born-and-bred American because I am white. On a recent scholarship application, the closest entry to "white" was "Anglo-American", as if other ethnicities here don't speak speak English natively. I picked "other" because my native languages are Russian and Ukrainian, so I'm not "Anglo", even though I knew very well what they meant.

05-03-2005, 05:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	[hijack] Glava: I'm mostly Irish (on my dad's side) and Ukranian/Russian (on my Mom's; her parents left in one of the Stalinist purges), and the Anglo=white thing annoys me, too. In Rocky III, Rocky's making a passionate speech, in which he refers to himself as an "anglo who held onto the title longer than he shoulda". For the longest time, I thought this was a joke; the olive comlpected, black-haired, "Italian Stallion" calling himself an Anglo. It wasn't until much later that I learned that for a great many people who don't know better, Anglo doesn't refer to just Anglo-Saxons but to any white person. Puerto Ricans also get a raw deal. They're native born American citizens, yet they're routinely assumed to be Mexican immigrants or even worse, that they're immigrants from Puerto Rico, as if it's a foreign country. I once heard a Puerto Rican student arguing in vain with a couple of boys trying to convince them of this, they thinking she was deluded. [/hijack] I don't think it's rude to ask about someone's ethnicity, but arguing with them about it is. I remember Tiger Woods being criticized by a radical black activist group for saying that he thinks of himself as equally African and Asian American. We should let others label themselves, and call them what they want to be called. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

05-03-2005, 06:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
Asuka{eve} Addict Location: Oh God, the rain!	Im half white half asian. My life has sucked.

05-03-2005, 08:02 PM	#36 (permalink)
jbw97361 Tilted	well of course everyone is going to have preconceived notions about people when they meet them for the first time. What is important is being able to break those notions quickly when the person in question is able to demonstrate ability contrary to the notion. I fully admit that i use the preconceived notions. For instance, when first meeting a new asian student on campus here, I make a point to speak very politely and clearly to that person. As I have learned, if that person IS from a foreign country, it makes everything easier. However, a fair portion of the time, they end up being from New York or somewhere else decidedly american. So what? Is there any sure fire way to distinguish a foreigner from an american on first notice? NO. Err on the side of caution at first? Sure. Be flexible? Definitely! __________________ JBW

05-04-2005, 06:20 AM	#39 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	This whole subject is one I have a lot of feelings about, since I grew up in Japan from ages 8 to 13. I became very acculturated - I spoke Japanese, ate Japanese food, went to a Japanese school, etc. It was very hard for me to come back and try to mix back into this culture and I still deal with some cultural difficulties, although after 15 years or so I managed to adapt. It's just that my experiences over there became a very deep part of who I am. I didn't realize what was going on until I took an "Asian in America" history class. The teacher, who was 3rd generation Japanese-American, came in one day and ran down a list of about 30 cultural/social traits generally associated with Asian-Americans. Guess what? Almost all of them described me. So I realized that I am almost like an Asian in disguise. I frequently encounter racism and ignorance on the part of my Caucasian bretheren, since they voice it in my presence without realizing how I'll react. It's a very touchy subject for me. I have been angered and disgusted so many times! My perception, though, is that the problem is lessening - at least it seems much better than it was in the 1970s when I came back. There is more "cool" associated with Asian things now, and more knowledge of Asian culture(s), at least East Asian anyway. I used to go out with a Korean guy who'd tell people he was an Eskimo when they asked where he was from. He was from Southern California. Last edited by Squishor; 05-04-2005 at 06:23 AM..

05-04-2005, 10:36 AM	#40 (permalink)
sashime76 Addict Location: Hoosier State	Heritage? I'm not sure how this is defined in today's day and age. Genghis Khan and the Mongols conquered Northern /Southern China and pretty much the entire Asia. Troops and merchants were sent to Afghanistan, Persia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Eastern Europe. As far as the history tells, anyone from the above region can very well be part Chinese/Mongol, even though minute. http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h11mon.htm I'm part Dutch from my mother's side from 3 generations ago. My wife is part English from her mother's side as well. Although I wasn't born in the U.S. but I have lived here much longer than I had in my birth country - Taiwan. My two boys were born Ameican citizen and that's what they are. I'm not Taiwanese-American, Taiwanese-Chinese or even Chinese-American. I do not have dual citizenship and I have sworn as an American citizen some 18 or 19 year ago. I have had friends of all races growing up in Southern CA. It wasn't evident until my family moved out to the Mid West then we realized we ARE the minority. I remember going to a Starbucks in the Indy area three years ago. As soon as we walked in, we immediately drew everyone's attention. Some were friendly and some were...well, not so friendly. One parent pulled her kids from the sitting area as we walked pass. Another time at a shopping mall in Indy, I was pushing my son in the stroller and a friendly older gentleman asked how old my son was. Well, he literally spelled it out, "H_o_w o_l_ d i_s y_o_u_r b_o_y? He assumed I didn't speak English or couldn't speak it well. It didn't offend me and I replied how old my son was. It's very likely my sons will come home one day with some cute little blond, redhead or brunette. My grand children will likely bare little resemblance of their Asian heritage. Some of my mom's friends have grand kids with blond hair and blue eyes. Another one or two generations after the only way to tell is perhaps through the family name. Then again, that can be legally changed, too. Only heritage we need to know is that we are all Homo Sapiens.