WTF is up with people?!? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lurkette · 04-27-2005, 05:50 AM

Clearly I'm not afraid enough. I get on planes all the time without a second thought. Sometimes I even share planes with suspicious people: vaguely ethnic-looking men travelling by themselves, hippies with dreadlocks, people who mutter to themselves. Not once have I ever seen anything that made me want to ask that they put the plane back on the ground. Am I just not paranoid enough? I have a hard time understanding the level of panic that could lead to this:

http://www.belleville.com/mld/bellev...l/11493732.htm

Quote:

MP3 player, herbal remedies lead to emergency landing at O'Hare

Associated Press

CHICAGO - An airline passenger's MP3 player and three vials harmless herbal remedies led to an emergency landing at O'Hare International Airport, the evacuation of 74 passengers and crew and a search of the plane Tuesday by the Chicago Police bomb squad.

The United Airlines flight was headed from New York to San Francisco when a passenger told a flight attendant he saw another passenger with suspicious materials, United spokesman Jeff Green said.

The flight crew looked at the materials, and the pilot decided to land at O'Hare. The 66 passengers and eight crew members were evacuated while the bomb squad inspected the materials and the plane, Green said.

The material turned out to be wires, an MP3 player and homeopathic medicines, said Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Ann Davis.

"It was nothing detrimental," said Chicago Police spokesman John Mirabelli. He said the three vials contained herbal liquids.

The passenger who brought the items was cleared to reboard the flight, which continued its flight to San Francisco after about three hours at O'Hare, Green said.

Y'know, better safe than sorry, I guess, but this just seems excessive and beyond the realm of common sense. Just points out how completely phobic we are becoming, when anything or anybody unrecognizable or unfamiliar becomes perceived as a threat.

amonkie · 04-27-2005, 05:55 AM

It seems to be, to me, this stems for a lack of education rather than purely a "better safe than sorry" approach. It will be sometimes hard to identify the items passengers carry on a plane due to the wide diversity of the passengers. Then again, bombs have been placed into everything from suitcases to pens. I'm with you though lurkette, I can't seem to figure out why this caused them to land the plane AFTER they saw the items.

ngdawg · 04-27-2005, 05:58 AM

This is like the recent ban on lighters that has been implemented for all flights. And an article in the Sunday NY Daily News stated that the reporter's son's balloon sword was confiscated before boarding the flight. The reason is not what you'd think. It was taken because fear of it popping would sound like a gunshot!
Safer flights now because of this idiocy? I don't think so.

tecoyah · 04-27-2005, 06:13 AM

And yet......hundreds of thousands of containers enter our ports each month.....uninspected, and are shipped to a city near you.

Priorities are a wonderful thing.

maleficent · 04-27-2005, 06:13 AM

Gotta wonder if the airline perhaps knew something that they are not telling. (Duh, thanks for stating the obvious) I always have an MP3 player with me, most always have a baggie full of vitamins, and other stuff, oK, so I'm a middle aged white female, not exactly a high risk thread, but still, it could be suspicious. I've never been questioned on anything.

It seems odd that something so innocuous would cause a flight to make an emergency landing (at a not so small cost, including publicity, to an airline already hurting) unless they had other information.

Cynthetiq · 04-27-2005, 07:36 AM

Irritating I tell you. I go thru all this security and you're still going to emergency land the plane?????

All because a few assholes...

flamingdog · 04-27-2005, 09:08 AM

I blame the flight attendants. In the four years since Sept. 11th (never mind however many years of civil aviation before that) could someone not give them even a tick-box checklist of how to distinguish between simple items of life equipment and fucking lethal weapons? Never mind the busybody asshole who pointed it up in the first place...

liquidlight · 04-27-2005, 09:18 AM

The only thing that I can say about a story like this is that I agree with George Carlin (as usual).

Airline security is a complete myth that is perpetuated for the peace of mind of the average middle class American citizen. Too many people have access to the planes to actually secure them and the area is too hectic and fluid to actually maintain that security. Do you think any of the loading crew would notice if a new guy suddenly showed up to help them put baggage on the plane? Or if they'd notice that "extra" bag that he'd brought with him? We'll leave out the discussion of how simple it would be to aquire/smuggle into the country a couple of Surface-to-Air missiles that could drop a commercial airliner without the plane ever being aware that it had been targetted.

jalora · 04-27-2005, 12:23 PM

I remember when I got stranded in Salt Lake City (flying home to SF from NYC) because of a bomb scare at SFO. This is when that Unabomber nonsense was taking place. I also vaguely recall getting pulled out of line on the way to Disneyland as a kid because my Grandma had one of those silver Legs "eggs" pantyhose things in her suitcase.

So, this kind of shit is nothing new. It just seems that now they take it seriously enough to divert planes.

StickODynomite · 04-27-2005, 12:37 PM

Yeah it seems the airlines are paranoid, but I sure can't blame them. Scary stuff has happened recently and they're just trying to keep people safe. At the same time, like liquidlight mentioned, it'd be too easy for them to overlook an extra bag, or a 'new' person loading the bags into the plane.. there's so much going on that it's easy to dismiss stuff like that, but it's the tiny details they need to pay attention to because some bombs these days are ridiculously small and easy to hide. It's like everything should be scrutinized with suspicion and of course they're going to take everything seriously now. What choice do they have?

Cuatela · 04-27-2005, 12:56 PM

personally, if a terrorist wanted to blow up a plane, he'd find a way to do it. The best thing to do is relax and enjoy life while it lasts.

jaco · 04-27-2005, 01:40 PM

Herbal explosives and an MP3 detonator and the wires for it all? bah, ignorance leads the way yet again. Would love to find out the instigator in this incident to thank them for doubling the fuel costs of that flight and wasting alot of time and effort. Next time maybe little georgie with his PSP and all its attachments will be seen and cause the next grounded plane.

Glory's Sun · 04-27-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaco

Herbal explosives and an MP3 detonator and the wires for it all? bah, ignorance leads the way yet again. Would love to find out the instigator in this incident to thank them for doubling the fuel costs of that flight and wasting alot of time and effort. Next time maybe little georgie with his PSP and all its attachments will be seen and cause the next grounded plane.

what.. you didn't know the PSP has a built in warhead??

heh. I understand the need to be safe and take extra precautions now, but this is just crazy. Like Tecoyah pointed out, there are other loopholes that people should be worried about.

Coppertop · 04-27-2005, 01:53 PM

I'm curious here: anyone know the last time a bomb was successfully brought onto a plane in the US? There's the shoe guy from a little ways back, any others recently? The hijackers on 9/11 didn't need bombs, after all. Well, other than the flying kind.

Captain Nemo · 04-27-2005, 01:58 PM

Look, we're dealing with people who won't let me fly with my Swiss Army wallet card because it has a knife that you couldn't kill a gnome with, yet I can carry a pen that I could very easily drive into someone's brain via there ear.

Consistency is a beautiful thing

maleficent · 04-27-2005, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop

I'm curious here: anyone know the last time a bomb was successfully brought onto a plane in the US? There's the shoe guy from a little ways back, any others recently? The hijackers on 9/11 didn't need bombs, after all. Well, other than the flying kind.

1996 - TWA Flight 800 -- went down over Long Island - speculation was a bomb or a missle

1999 - EgyptAir - no idea the flight number -- speculation either bomb or massive pilot intent

1988 - Pan Am - Flight went down over Lockerbie, Scotland

Coppertop · 04-27-2005, 02:13 PM

I saw a show on the Hitler (excuse me, History) Channel that speculated that TWA 800 could have been downed by interference from an AWACS. At least I think the other plane was an AWACS. It was a military plane, however. Something about the instruments on the AWACS that caused interference to electronics that passed through its flight path. Somehow I doubt we'll ever know the true story.

edit - I added these links:

http://www.holology.com/twa800.html
http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~w...twa800-emi.htm

Did the other two planes take off from the US? Because it is US airport security I am wondering about.

maleficent · 04-27-2005, 02:14 PM

I beleive that they all left out of NY - -Kennedy Airport...

Coppertop · 04-27-2005, 02:24 PM

Pan Am Flight 103 took off from Heathrow. I also see the EgyptAir flight did in fact take off from the US. The cause of the crash is uncertain. Thanks for the tips.

Grasshopper Green · 04-27-2005, 06:29 PM

I flew a few months ago and had a boxcutter in my purse; I use one at work at had forgotten to take it out when I went to the airport. Security didn't find it....and since boxcutters are supposedly what was used to take control of the 9/11 planes, you'd think they'd notice those. Good thing I didn't have my vitamins in my purse though, because the plane may have been delayed

jasonresno · 04-27-2005, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

Clearly I'm not afraid enough. I get on planes all the time without a second thought. Sometimes I even share planes with suspicious people: vaguely ethnic-looking men travelling by themselves, hippies with dreadlocks, people who mutter to themselves. Not once have I ever seen anything that made me want to ask that they put the plane back on the ground. Am I just not paranoid enough? I have a hard time understanding the level of panic that could lead to this:

http://www.belleville.com/mld/bellev...l/11493732.htm

Y'know, better safe than sorry, I guess, but this just seems excessive and beyond the realm of common sense. Just points out how completely phobic we are becoming, when anything or anybody unrecognizable or unfamiliar becomes perceived as a threat.

If those materials WERE deadly than we'd all be singing a different tune. Better safe than sorry

Willravel · 04-27-2005, 06:47 PM

You win the award for most vague thread name! Excelent.

Yes, this IS totally excessive beyond reason. I have nail clippers, pens and pencils, a breifcase, an electric razor and a slew of other non threatening objects at various airports around the US. If you can take over an airplane of people with a pair of nail clippers, you deserve the friggin plane. That was a $400 breif case, I hope you're happy Raleigh, N.C.

04-27-2005, 05:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	It seems to be, to me, this stems for a lack of education rather than purely a "better safe than sorry" approach. It will be sometimes hard to identify the items passengers carry on a plane due to the wide diversity of the passengers. Then again, bombs have been placed into everything from suitcases to pens. I'm with you though lurkette, I can't seem to figure out why this caused them to land the plane AFTER they saw the items. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

04-27-2005, 06:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	And yet......hundreds of thousands of containers enter our ports each month.....uninspected, and are shipped to a city near you. Priorities are a wonderful thing. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

04-27-2005, 06:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Gotta wonder if the airline perhaps knew something that they are not telling. (Duh, thanks for stating the obvious) I always have an MP3 player with me, most always have a baggie full of vitamins, and other stuff, oK, so I'm a middle aged white female, not exactly a high risk thread, but still, it could be suspicious. I've never been questioned on anything. It seems odd that something so innocuous would cause a flight to make an emergency landing (at a not so small cost, including publicity, to an airline already hurting) unless they had other information. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

04-27-2005, 07:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Irritating I tell you. I go thru all this security and you're still going to emergency land the plane????? All because a few assholes... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-27-2005, 09:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	The only thing that I can say about a story like this is that I agree with George Carlin (as usual). Airline security is a complete myth that is perpetuated for the peace of mind of the average middle class American citizen. Too many people have access to the planes to actually secure them and the area is too hectic and fluid to actually maintain that security. Do you think any of the loading crew would notice if a new guy suddenly showed up to help them put baggage on the plane? Or if they'd notice that "extra" bag that he'd brought with him? We'll leave out the discussion of how simple it would be to aquire/smuggle into the country a couple of Surface-to-Air missiles that could drop a commercial airliner without the plane ever being aware that it had been targetted. __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

04-27-2005, 05:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	This is like the recent ban on lighters that has been implemented for all flights. And an article in the Sunday NY Daily News stated that the reporter's son's balloon sword was confiscated before boarding the flight. The reason is not what you'd think. It was taken because fear of it popping would sound like a gunshot! Safer flights now because of this idiocy? I don't think so.

04-27-2005, 09:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.	I blame the flight attendants. In the four years since Sept. 11th (never mind however many years of civil aviation before that) could someone not give them even a tick-box checklist of how to distinguish between simple items of life equipment and fucking lethal weapons? Never mind the busybody asshole who pointed it up in the first place...

04-27-2005, 12:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
jalora Tilted Location: California	I remember when I got stranded in Salt Lake City (flying home to SF from NYC) because of a bomb scare at SFO. This is when that Unabomber nonsense was taking place. I also vaguely recall getting pulled out of line on the way to Disneyland as a kid because my Grandma had one of those silver Legs "eggs" pantyhose things in her suitcase. So, this kind of shit is nothing new. It just seems that now they take it seriously enough to divert planes. __________________ Like my diamonds? The Devil himself gave them to me...

04-27-2005, 12:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
StickODynomite Insane Location: Arizona :\|	Yeah it seems the airlines are paranoid, but I sure can't blame them. Scary stuff has happened recently and they're just trying to keep people safe. At the same time, like liquidlight mentioned, it'd be too easy for them to overlook an extra bag, or a 'new' person loading the bags into the plane.. there's so much going on that it's easy to dismiss stuff like that, but it's the tiny details they need to pay attention to because some bombs these days are ridiculously small and easy to hide. It's like everything should be scrutinized with suspicion and of course they're going to take everything seriously now. What choice do they have? __________________ "The human mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."

04-27-2005, 12:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	personally, if a terrorist wanted to blow up a plane, he'd find a way to do it. The best thing to do is relax and enjoy life while it lasts. __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

04-27-2005, 01:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
jaco Crazy	Herbal explosives and an MP3 detonator and the wires for it all? bah, ignorance leads the way yet again. Would love to find out the instigator in this incident to thank them for doubling the fuel costs of that flight and wasting alot of time and effort. Next time maybe little georgie with his PSP and all its attachments will be seen and cause the next grounded plane. __________________ "How soft your fields so green, Can whisper tales of gore" "Thou art god"

04-27-2005, 01:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	I'm curious here: anyone know the last time a bomb was successfully brought onto a plane in the US? There's the shoe guy from a little ways back, any others recently? The hijackers on 9/11 didn't need bombs, after all. Well, other than the flying kind.

04-27-2005, 01:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
Captain Nemo Insane Location: In a forest of red tape (but hey, I have scissors)	Look, we're dealing with people who won't let me fly with my Swiss Army wallet card because it has a knife that you couldn't kill a gnome with, yet I can carry a pen that I could very easily drive into someone's brain via there ear. Consistency is a beautiful thing

04-27-2005, 02:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	I saw a show on the Hitler (excuse me, History) Channel that speculated that TWA 800 could have been downed by interference from an AWACS. At least I think the other plane was an AWACS. It was a military plane, however. Something about the instruments on the AWACS that caused interference to electronics that passed through its flight path. Somehow I doubt we'll ever know the true story. edit - I added these links: http://www.holology.com/twa800.html http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~w...twa800-emi.htm Did the other two planes take off from the US? Because it is US airport security I am wondering about. Last edited by Coppertop; 04-27-2005 at 02:17 PM.. Reason: typo

04-27-2005, 02:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I beleive that they all left out of NY - -Kennedy Airport... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

04-27-2005, 02:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Pan Am Flight 103 took off from Heathrow. I also see the EgyptAir flight did in fact take off from the US. The cause of the crash is uncertain. Thanks for the tips.

04-27-2005, 06:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I flew a few months ago and had a boxcutter in my purse; I use one at work at had forgotten to take it out when I went to the airport. Security didn't find it....and since boxcutters are supposedly what was used to take control of the 9/11 planes, you'd think they'd notice those. Good thing I didn't have my vitamins in my purse though, because the plane may have been delayed __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

04-27-2005, 06:47 PM	#22 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You win the award for most vague thread name! Excelent. Yes, this IS totally excessive beyond reason. I have nail clippers, pens and pencils, a breifcase, an electric razor and a slew of other non threatening objects at various airports around the US. If you can take over an airplane of people with a pair of nail clippers, you deserve the friggin plane. That was a $400 breif case, I hope you're happy Raleigh, N.C.