Pope didn't want to be elected? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

asudevil83 · 04-25-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Benedict Says He Prayed Not to Be Elected

Mon Apr 25,10:56 AM ET

Add to My Yahoo! Europe - AP

By DANIELA PETROFF, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI said Monday he had viewed the idea of being elected pope as a "guillotine," and he prayed to God during the recent conclave to be spared selection but "evidently this time He didn't listen to me."

For the first time since his election, Benedict shed light on his feelings inside the conclave during an audience with fellow Germans.

Speaking in his native tongue, Benedict told the audience that at one point during the conclave, when it became clear he was garnering many votes, a fellow cardinal slipped him a note reminding him what he had preached before the conclave about Christ calling Peter to follow him even where he did not want to go.

Benedict, 78, said he had hoped to spend his last years living quietly and peacefully.

"As the trend in the ballots slowly made me realize that — in a manner of speaking the guillotine would fall on me — I started to feel quite dizzy," a smiling Benedict said, clearly joking. "I thought that I had done my life's work and could now hope to live out my days in peace. I told the Lord with deep conviction, 'Don't do this to me.'"

He recalled saying to God in his prayers: "You have younger, better, more enthusiastic and energetic candidates."

"Evidently, this time He didn't listen to me," Benedict said.

The former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected pope April 19 after four rounds of balloting in 24 hours, one of the fastest elections in a century. He went into the conclave a leading candidate, but at 78 he was considered old to be named pope.

Benedict was interrupted several times by applause and cheering during the audience, and he seemed to enjoy the welcome from his countrymen, smiling and chuckling occasionally. When he first arrived in the audience hall, he received a hero's welcome, shaking the pilgrims' hands and blessing a child handed to him.

"Benedict sent from God!" the crowds chanted. In German, the chant rhymes: "Benedikt Gott Geschickt."

Pilgrims, some in traditional dress, toted Bavarian flags and a banner for the church's World Youth Day, which is being celebrated in August in Cologne, Germany. Benedict told the crowd he was looking forward to attending, following a tradition beloved by his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who made reaching out to young Catholics a hallmark of his pontificate.

"It's not true that young people only look at consumerism and materialism," he said. "Young people want great things."

He told them the church is not a place for people seeking a comfortable life, noting that it is difficult to choose to follow Christ.

"He who is looking to be comfortable has come to the wrong address," he said.

He asked for their support, no matter what.

"I ask you for your trust when I make errors or when I say things that aren't easily understood, because the pope has to say these things. If we stick together, then we will find the way."

In the crowd was Benedict's brother, Georg Ratzinger, who also is a priest and traveled to Rome for his younger brother's inauguration. He received warm applause from the crowd when he arrived.

Benedict played to the crowd, telling them: "My roots are in Bavaria and I'm still Bavarian as bishop of Rome."

At the start of the audience, Benedict apologized to the crowds for arriving late, explaining that a meeting with religious leaders who attended his inauguration Mass ran long.

"The Germans are used to punctuality," he joked. "I'm already very Italian."

Many people in the crowd said they were thrilled with Benedict's election and were surprised to find him so warm when he has had such a dour reputation as head of the Vatican's doctrinal orthodoxy office.

"I was so surprised. I didn't know he was so personable," said Annette Wilkemeyer. "This is great, especially for the young."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._reflections_2

to me, this comes as a huge suprise. why would the church elect a person who was that old and DIDN'T want to be elected. i had figured that the church elected this guy because he was respected as a cardinal and WANTED to become pope during his last remaining years.

i dont really know what to make of this.

SecretMethod70 · 04-25-2005, 01:28 PM

This is pretty normal actually. Pope John Paul I told the conclave after he was elected, "May God forgive you for what you have done on my behalf." It's a stressful life being Pope - how many people want to spend the rest of their life in the spotlight like that? Besides, anyone who WANTS to be Pope (especially if he wants it so much that it's noticable) has pretty much no chance of becoming Pope. Wanting it hardly shows any humility now, does it?

The sentiment is so expected in fact that the room the newly elected Pope goes to to put on his new dress is called the "Room of Tears."

kutulu · 04-25-2005, 01:32 PM

What is interesting was that he and others knew he was gathering a lot of votes. The ballots are supposed to be secret and burned immediately if a winner is not declared. I guess they talk about their votes a lot.

kutulu · 04-25-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Wanting it hardly shows any humility now, does it?

The sentiment is so expected in fact that the room the newly elected Pope goes to to put on his new dress is called the "Room of Tears."

Good point.

SecretMethod70 · 04-25-2005, 01:37 PM

As far as I'm aware, the ballots aren't secret from the people doing the voting - the burning, etc, prevents them from being reused and the voting being tampered with.

From an MSNBC article, regarding the Room of Tears, "They call it the “Room of Tears” because several times newly elected popes have entered there and broken down in tears, realizing the responsibility that they have and the enormous burden they have just taken on to represent God on earth."

It's an unofficial title, but I suppose if enough guys break down in there, it might gain a reputation

f6twister · 04-25-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

What is interesting was that he and others knew he was gathering a lot of votes. The ballots are supposed to be secret and burned immediately if a winner is not declared. I guess they talk about their votes a lot.

The votes are burned, but they are only a secret to those outside of the conclave. The ballots are held up so all of the cardinals can see them.

Each Cardinal writes his nomination in the space provided and then folds the ballot paper. The Cardinals go one by one, in order of seniority, to the altar. Each in turn kneels for a moment in prayer. He rises and, holding up to paper for all to see, cries aloud: “I call to witness the Lord Christ, who will be my judge, that I am electing the one whom under God I think ought to be elected.” As he says these words, he has before his eyes the tremendous fresco by Michaelangeleo, showing Christ coming in judgement. The Cardinal then places the ballot paper on the paten and tips it into the chalice, before returning to his place.

What makes me wonder is why he accepted the position. After a successful vote, the person elected is asked if they accept the position. Yes and they move forward, no and they continue the conclave. All he would have needed to say was no.

When at last the balloting has proved successful, the violet canopies over the thrones are lowered, leaving only that of the Cardinal who has been elected. Then the Dean of the College of Cardinals, who is the senior of the Cardinal Bishops, presents himself before the throne of the Cardinal who has been elected, as asks him whether he will accept election. If he does accept, in that moment he becomes Pope, with the full authority of the Vicar of Christ. The Cardinal Dean then asks him the name by which he would wish to be called.

http://www.truecatholic.org/pope/conclave-history.htm

SecretMethod70 · 04-25-2005, 01:48 PM

eek, truecatholic.org ... in this case it's accurate, but I wouldn't trust much of anything on that site. Those people are very similar to the infamous brand of "catholicism" practiced by Mel Gibson and his father (in fact, it may be one and the same, but I'm not sure).

Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone has actually ever turned it down. Again, you have to put yourself in their mindset - being Pope is not something one chooses to do, it's something one is "called" to do. This mindset is displayed quite well, I think, in this paragraph:

Quote:

Speaking in his native tongue, Benedict told the audience that at one point during the conclave, when it became clear he was garnering many votes, a fellow cardinal slipped him a note reminding him what he had preached before the conclave about Christ calling Peter to follow him even where he did not want to go.

amonkie · 04-25-2005, 02:03 PM

It has been said in the past by someone, and I seem to recall it now: "To want power takes greed, to have power takes one who is reluctant". Many times, what one is called to do and your own choices often appear out of alignment.

OFKU0 · 04-25-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

eek, truecatholic.org ... in this case it's accurate, but I wouldn't trust much of anything on that site. Those people are very similar to the infamous brand of "catholicism" practiced by Mel Gibson and his father (in fact, it may be one and the same, but I'm not sure).

Was thinking the same thing given this was the first article I've read that doesn't ruminate of the Popes teenage Nazi party affiliation. What a pleasant surprise.

04-25-2005, 01:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	This is pretty normal actually. Pope John Paul I told the conclave after he was elected, "May God forgive you for what you have done on my behalf." It's a stressful life being Pope - how many people want to spend the rest of their life in the spotlight like that? Besides, anyone who WANTS to be Pope (especially if he wants it so much that it's noticable) has pretty much no chance of becoming Pope. Wanting it hardly shows any humility now, does it? The sentiment is so expected in fact that the room the newly elected Pope goes to to put on his new dress is called the "Room of Tears." __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

04-25-2005, 01:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	As far as I'm aware, the ballots aren't secret from the people doing the voting - the burning, etc, prevents them from being reused and the voting being tampered with. From an MSNBC article, regarding the Room of Tears, "They call it the “Room of Tears” because several times newly elected popes have entered there and broken down in tears, realizing the responsibility that they have and the enormous burden they have just taken on to represent God on earth." It's an unofficial title, but I suppose if enough guys break down in there, it might gain a reputation __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 04-25-2005 at 01:41 PM..

04-25-2005, 02:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	It has been said in the past by someone, and I seem to recall it now: "To want power takes greed, to have power takes one who is reluctant". Many times, what one is called to do and your own choices often appear out of alignment. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

04-25-2005, 01:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	What is interesting was that he and others knew he was gathering a lot of votes. The ballots are supposed to be secret and burned immediately if a winner is not declared. I guess they talk about their votes a lot.