f6twister

This has been a highly debated topic in my area lately and probably in a lot of other places also. The laws and many people are all for giving criminals who have served their time a chance to reintegrate into society. But many of the same people who are in favor of reintegration are only for it when the person doesn't live by them.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr05/318523.asp

Changes sought to sexual predator law
Let offenders go to other counties, supervisors say

By DAVE UMHOEFER
dumhoefer@journalsentinel.com
Posted: April 14, 2005

Milwaukee County officials want changes in state law that would remove a requirement that released sexual predators be returned to their original county of residence as they reintegrate into society after serving prison terms.

The state should look statewide for the most appropriate location for sexually violent people, keeping in mind the population density of the surrounding community, a resolution endorsed Thursday says.

The advice, approved 6-1 by the County Board's Judiciary, Safety and General Services Committee, comes after a state-appointed panel failed to find a Milwaukee County site for a halfway house for habitual sex offenders whose post-release existence is determined by the state's Chapter 980 law.

Vehement public opposition caused the withdrawal of six possible sites from consideration by the state committee, leaving the issue in limbo. The last two - on county-owned land in Franklin and Milwaukee - were nixed last week.

Supervisors at Thursday's judiciary committee meeting said they did not want to rule out all potential Milwaukee County sites with their new resolution.

"We are not drawing a line in the sand," said Supervisor Joseph Rice, lead sponsor of the resolution.

But Rice and others made it clear that they wanted changes in the state law before they would consider selling Milwaukee County land for such a halfway house.

Supervisors also want the state to provide sufficient funds to ensure that counties will not be responsible for any costs of supervision and treatment of such offenders.

The resolution also urges the Legislature and Gov. Jim Doyle to give the state search committee "necessary resources to carry out its mission."

Milwaukee County is the only county in Wisconsin unable to find housing for returning offenders, so the state is proposing a larger facility that would hold about a dozen individuals.

The county resolution suggests that Wisconsin corrections officials consider following the lead of other states that use or are considering using global positioning satellite technology to track the exact location of such predators "during and after their transition into the community."

The County Board "supports the use of the most advanced technology available for the purpose of protecting, treating, deterring and tracking sexually violent persons and Chapter 980 releases . . . ," the resolution states.

Supervisor Lynne DeBruin voted against the resolution, stating that the county should send a stronger signal for the need for changes in Chapter 980.

Other supervisors said they wanted to be careful not to take too confrontational a stance with state officials.

Under Chapter 980, habitual sex offenders may be held for mental health treatment after serving their prison terms. But state and federal courts have made it clear that such laws risk being found unconstitutional if they do not include a provision for eventual release.

If courts threw out Chapter 980, predators could be released directly into the community after finishing their prison sentences, law enforcement officials have noted.

The question is, where should released sex offenders go? If they are put into a city, there are more possible victims and it may be easier to blend in. If they live in a country setting, there are fewer victims but also fewer people to keep an eye on their activities. There have been so many stories lately of sex offenders committing their 2nd or 3rd offense that sometimes I wonder if reintegration is even possible.

I guess I don't have an answer for this myself. I'm torn between doing what is right as a parent and the rights of the person who has served their time to reenter society.

Anyone have any good ideas?

Also, if anyone wants to read about Chapter 980, it can be found here.

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Hektore

I think if this sort of an issue needs to be addressed(where we put them when they get out) then obviously there is a failure in the legal system somewhere such that this person is obviously not ready to be returned to society and really should not be returned to society. In theory, if the penal system works, their past crimes shouldn't make a difference in where they can or cannot live. In other words, this isn't something that should even be addressed, if you need to control where they live, what areas of society they have access to, they should still be incarcerated.

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fro2020

ditto hektore. can't ditto enough.

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Suave

We should send them all to an uninhabited continent where they can develop insane accents, drink beer, and listen to AC/DC.

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Glory's Sun

Is there something implied here?? Or are you joking?

Astrocloud

We could free up more space in prison by letting the drug offenders go... then incarcerate sexual preditors until they are old and feeble.

Cynthetiq

I believe he's referring to the continent of Australia as it was originally a prison colony.

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Glory's Sun

AHH, good point cyn.

I think we need to remember that the article posted is about habitual offenders. I can't see making a 19 year old kid who got in trouble because his younger girlfriends parents didn't like it go through this sort of thing (halfway house). That being said I agree with Hektore for the most part.

Suave

My plan is ruined. But we need somewhere for habitual offenders to go, and I think outdoor self-sufficient prison colonies are definitely the way to go.

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NoSoupForYou

around here in ny where i live sex offenders live where ever they choose...even repeated ones..just notices are handed out in the mail notifying people that they are residing in thier neighborhoods..

cellophanedeity

If they're likely to repeat again, don't let them out. Let them live in prison.

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Sweetpea

The question really is . . . should they get to live at all? (sorry, had to throw that in there) There have been numerous repeat offenders in my state this past year that it's sickening . . . for many, rehabilitation is merely a dream for their social workers . . . how many little children need to be hurt before the system realizes many of these mentally sick individuals will never be cured . . .

They should stay in prison for life. End of story.

second chances are really nice in theory . . . until it's your little daughter or son or innocent teenager they've chosen as their next victim after having been released from prison.

I'm sorry if i sound harsh, but that is just the reality.
reintegration is a dream.

Sweetpea

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flstf

I agree the punishment for sexual offendors/predators should be strengthened. However first they should ease up on the registration requirements for some, like the 18 year old with the 16 year old and the guys caught pissing behind a tree, etc..

This whole sexual predator stuff is macabe. As I understand it many predators were abused as children and go on to abuse other children and on and on. It reminds me of vampires. Of course no one wants these vampires living around their children so the politically connected will always locate them in someone elses neighborhood.

MSD

This is an important distinction. For rapists (real rape, not someone who got screwed over by someone who changed her mind after thea fact,) child molestors, and similar types, I'd say that an ideal location is a tight circle around the rim of an active volcano.

alicat

I don't normally watch daytime t.v., but during the course of the day if I'm having a smoke break or a 10 min. break because of chronic back-pain, I flip to the "talk show's". You don't have to be involved in them to watch 10 min's worth.

I have seen so many of these shows in the past 15+ yrs. about sex offenders that go to prison for a minimal amount of time, get out of prison and then accost someone else almost immediately. If damn talk-shows have been spot-lighting this phenomenon for so long, then why the fuck aren't our legislators paying attention? That just sickens me and pisses me off.

I agree there needs to be differentation between the offenses. No, if an 18 yr. old is having sex with a 16 yr. old (and it's concentual) then there is no way the 18 yr. old should go to prison. If it was a 22 yr. old and a 16 yr. old, then yes the 22 yr. old should. That is a large enough gap, and the 22 yr. old has been a "legal" adult for a long enough time that they should realize (both morally and legally) that they are doing wrong and/or breaking the law. It's statutory rape. Technically (sp) the 18 yr. old is also commiting it, but the gap in the age's is so small it's not the same circumstance (she could be almost 17 and he could have just turned 18-how many of you are only a year or a bit more in age from your spouse?)

Boys have penises and they want to use them. If a girl sleeps around for whatever reason (and there are a plethora of psudo-legitamate and sad reasons), who can fault a boy for jumping at the chance to dip his wick with a girl who seems willing? There is a world of difference from sex between minors (or nearly minors) and sexual abuse. If you are 18+ (yes I realize the line is blurred by my previous example, but I was trying to emphasize that there can be a small gap in age) then you are a legal adult and should be treated as such.

Those that are legal adults and are convicted of a sexual crime (whether statutory rape as in my example above or rape/violent rape/murder) need to spend their life behind bars because of their likelyhood of repeating the crime, or they need to have a life-long "sex offender" tag that follows them wherever they go (though, as I've seen on shows like "Montel", that doesn't mean much to them, alot have gone on to assault/rape/murder even after they are registered in their towns.) The laws need to change and become stiffer, no 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th chances, period.

As far as where they should live? How about Antartica without clothing or shelter....

Ali

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Reese

One word: Castration

Make it optional.. Life in prison, or 10 years and castrated..

I honestly think, other than sending them all to Canada, this is the best plan.
(No offense Canadians, I just know you guys dont have as many sex offenders so I figured the cold weather might hae prevented it or something.)

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KMA-628

/probably one of the best points I have read in this forum in quite awhile.

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hunnychile

I say castration and residence in Antartica for 35 to 50 years and send the murderers there also. Our prisons are too full in the USA already.

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Hain

I will keep what I think we really ought to do with the serial murders and repeating sex offenders, but the best point is Hektore's. If you need control where the rapist lives: prison is the solution.

Cybermike: they already "castrate" them through chemicals and the ones that they physically castrate move on to use objects to rape their victims.

Now my opinion: if one performs inhuman actions towards another human being, then this requires a forfeiting of one's human rights--end of it. If one cannot respect another's enumerated and unenumerated human rights, then that offender's rights should be forfeit by our justice system. So keep them in jail, use them for something that might allow their miserable lives to bring good: like research for cancer and AIDS, or take organs when someone needs them. It is ridiculous that a life without parole prisoner receives better health care than I do. Better question to leave you with is who has more right to life: a prisoner on death row or a child on their deathbed?

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whocarz

I am of the opinion that anyone who is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole should be executed anyway. They no longer contribute to society (wait they make lisence plates, what a boon!), and only drain it's resources. Get rid of all these draconian drug laws, and let all those incarcerated because of drug use/dealing/purchasing free (nb. keep those who murdered or commited other crimes because of drugs in prison), and we have more space and resources to keep scum bag rapists and molestors locked up. Having consentual sex with someone underage needs to be catagorized differently from rape. Put all violent rapists to death.

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viejo gringo

I'll go with the castration, but why pissoff a bunch of polar bears....

flstf

A lot of posters here are advocating castration, life imprisonment or death for convicted sex offenders. Doesn't it bother anyone that quite a few of these people are innocent? Just a quick search found dozens maybe hundreds of cases like the one quoted below. Before we start chopping peoples balls off, shouldn't we make an effort to clean up the justice system in this country?

Hain

Flstf, the question isn't about our justice system. I know that there are many flaws and people have fallen onto the wrong side of justice. The question that is addressed is what to do with the convicted sex offenders--ignoring the flaws of justice. This is a scenario of what to do to a truly guilty sex offender. It doesn't bother me the slightest to express what I feel we should do because I am not one with the power to advocate any changes. My opinions expressed add to nothing. If you want to fix the justice system, figure out telepathy. When someone actually solves the problems within our Justice, then I will stand firmly for everything I say. Until then this is a conversation of what-ifs and do-these.

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Glory's Sun

The question actually <b>is </b> about our justice system. Our system is full of people who shouldn't be in jail for the amount of time they are sentenced and/or who aren't guilty. Polygraph's aren't admissible in court. Until they are admissible we'll continue to see mistakes and wrongful verdicts. Sure there are plenty of sick fucks out there. What should they do with them? I really don't know. It's probably safe to say though, that if someone was sent to jail for molestation, that they get their due share while they are in there. What I'd really like to see is some sort of distiction and different databases. If all these people are pleading to lesser crimes then the line becomes blurred even more. There should be a seperate database for child molestors and predators; a seperate database for violent offenders, and the last category should be the statutory/non-violent/non-predatory offenders. The way the system is now, people automatically lump all of the offenders into the "pedophile" group. I guess that's really off topic.

The other point I want to make is this. IF these repeat offenders were all placed under the same roof what does that actually accomplish? Where do the alternative (correct) thought processes come from. It's just like if you put a bunch of crack heads in the same house then naturally they are going to start thinking about smoking crack again and figure out how to get some in there. The halfway house is a weak idea. I just can't think of a better one at the moment.

smooth

I don't think it's off topic.
We can't really ship certain criminal offenders anywhere except back into society. Given that reality, the question is how do we protect vulnerable citizens from future harm. Monitoring and control seem to be what we've got. Yet, it doesn't make very much sense, from a monitoring perspective, to put all offenders into the same database without distinction. How can you tell you is dangerous or not?

There are big differences between the guy who killed someone in a vehicle accident, the guy who killed his wife after she committed adultery, and they guy who moves around and strangles his next door neighbors. It wouldn't make much sense to treat them all the same in a database or think of them all the same.

It also isn't very responsible journalism to report these extremely anomalous cases as if they were the norm. So four or so cases have been reported now, yet tens of thousads of offenders have not been reoffending in that same timeframe. Do we really need to chop everyones balls off or send people to siberia in light of the fact that just a few people have actually reoffended like that? Seems to me like those people could have stayed in prison or carefully monitored in their homes without too much extra expense from the justice system.

There's a lot of hype surrounding these types of cases, without a lot of connection to the kinds of things that would reduce re-offending. Stranger to stranger molestation is extremely rare--yet this whole registration scheme implemented throughout the states is predicated on the notion that strangers need to protect themselves from boogeymen next door. Mothers don't. Mothers need to monitor when grandpa plays with sally. or when uncle plays with sally. and mother usually knows when she has to do that because she might have some suspicion from her childhood. and that would reduce these types of incidents tenfold or more.

after people start thinking about this and resonding rationally, we would have more resources to spend on the people who do go out and predate on others in public.

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Glory's Sun

You make some very very good points smooth. You can't lump the whole group together.. it just isn't right. Also, I'm not sure where, but I saw a stat that said that women offend more than men do. The only reason you don't hear about it is because of the double standard. It's almost a bragging right for boys to have sex so they don't report it as a sexual assault or anything of the nature. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I think you're dead on with this. When a case does occur (i.e. the sick fuck in Florida) then there should also be some sort of story about the sex offenders who are out trying to rebuild their lives and are doing well in society. I guess that doesn't make for sensationalist news though. How sad.

f6twister

It would be nice to see but I don't think the person who is now living their life crime free really wants to plaster his name in the paper again. This would either remind those who knew or tell those who don't know about the resident sex offender.

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gophtc

I don't like when people find the worst in everything and comdemn it. You find acts that are utterly disgusting and therefore can only fathom that a radical solution could work.

You can't effectively seperate these people from society, even if everyone knows who they are, and you can't ever find where to draw the line of what's a good or bad crime.

Whether you like to think of it this way or not, the worst a human can do is a reflection upon you and I as humankind. An horrendous sex offender didn't bridge any gap. We built ourselves toward that point, with more and more degrading crimes until we reached one of such extent. If you want to cut that limb off, then fine, but every arm will want to cut the other off. Then what will be left with?

We should want to improve things just a little, makes ourselves better, not by sucking out the fat so easily and costly, but by slowly conditioning our entire body and using that fat to build muscle.

The irony of it is, the only reason these people are being helped at all is because people see in such extremes.