Insurers Want Your Vehicles Black-Box Data - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bill O'Rights · 04-12-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - Insurance companies would be barred from using data from vehicles' "black boxes" to set drivers' rates, under legislation that won final approval Monday in the North Dakota Legislature.

The bill is aimed at computer chips that record a car's speed, braking and steering efficiency, and whether the driver was wearing a seat belt.

The chips are common in newer vehicles and typically store information that can be used to investigate an accident.

"If you were in a car accident, and if this information had been downloaded . . . the insurance companies could not use this information for the purpose of rate assessment after the accident," said State Rep. RaeAnn Kelsch, a Republican.

The State House approved the measure 87-3 Monday.

Hmmm...I'm actually a bit torn on this one. On one hand we have the "Big Brother" argument. I mean, for damn sure I don't like the idea of someone being able to "watch over my shoulder" 100% of the time. Yet, on the other hand, I am a very good driver, and I'm sure that a black-box would reflect that fact, thereby lowering my insurance rates. Right?

maleficent · 04-12-2005, 06:31 AM

Living in a state that has the damn near the highest insurance rates in the country, I'm all for doing anything that would lower said rates...

I haven't owner a car in more than 10 years, when I did, it was a piece of shit, Chevette, that was used to get me to and fro the train station, and that was pretty much it... For this rust bucket, which I had no theft and no collission on - I paid over 3000 dollars a year to insure - -or rather me in it.. Why were my rates so high? I was a good driver, I had no speeding tickets, I had two accidents in the course of three weeks -- the first, some buffoon ran a red light and right into my car -- nailed the back end of it - nothing I could do to stop it. The second -- I was stopped at a red light during a snow storm - the bozo who hit me -- slammed on his brakes and skidded into me..

I was a bad risk, in the wrong place at the wrong time... A black box would show that I was indeed a good driver and it was other people that sucked. No fault states need to go - -blame needs to be assigned in accidents.

f6twister · 04-12-2005, 06:33 AM

The problem is that insurance companies can do whatever they want. Without the box, insurance companies apply fault in an accident based on their interpretation. Even if there was no fault on your part, they can still hike the rates to whatever they want anyway. All the box will do is give them more reasons to raise the rates because they could tell everything from seat belt use to speed. Yes, drivers should be wearing their seat belts and driving the speed limit but I will be opposed to the black box information being used by anyone other than law enforcement, at least until I see some sort of regulations on insurance companies.

maleficent · 04-12-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6twister

I see some sort of regulations on insurance companies..

We're on our third governor who promised that they'd do something about the insurance companies... I won't see it in my lifetime....

NoSoup · 04-12-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Yet, on the other hand, I am a very good driver, and I'm sure that a black-box would reflect that fact, thereby lowering my insurance rates. Right?

I wouldn't think so...

I would imagine that the box will only be checked when you get into an accident - even if the insurance companies would have won and been able to check the box, I don't think people would have allowed the box to transmit that information constantly - imagine the "Big Brother" implications... Speeding likely wouldn't be an issue anymore. Nor would doing much of anything in a vehicle, if someone were to build a reciever programmed to search for any illegal data and automatically ticket them - U Turns, increasing speed too quickly, braking hard, ect... regardless of circumstances.

WillyPete · 04-12-2005, 06:58 AM

Can law-enforcement subpoena it after an accident?
Can you subpoena it from someone who ran into you in a lawsuit?

what would stop the insurers from getting the data from publicly filed records?

pattycakes · 04-12-2005, 12:35 PM

if i bought a new car and it had one of em in it. first thing i would do when i got it home would be take er out

JStrider · 04-12-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattycakes

if i bought a new car and it had one of em in it. first thing i would do when i got it home would be take er out

a friend of mine did some research on doing just that

and they seem to be linked to the airbags, apparently for all intensive purposes its impossible to disable the black box without disabling the airbags also

liquidlight · 04-12-2005, 01:59 PM

I think it's important to note that according to the article the "black box" info would only be used in adjusting rates AFTER an accident, thus whether you're a good driver or not most insurance companies, being the money grubbing bastards that they are, would simply use this as one more excuse to hike your rates. After all, the numbers never lie, right?

stingc · 04-12-2005, 02:35 PM

In most cars, the "black boxes" are completely integrated with the available safety systems (airbags, belt tensioners, brake assist, stability control, etc.). All of those devices need to have data about speed, steering angle, and so on.

At some point, certain manufacturers realized that all of this data that the car was already gathering would be a very useful way of getting (almost) free research about real-world crashes. So the "black box" was invented as something that will store the last few seconds of data after an accident. This has presumably helped engineers to better understand how to make cars safer.

I am not aware of any system that records more than a few a seconds worth of information. There wouldn't be any point in keeping track of average speed, etc. A possible exception to this would be in cars with adaptive automatic transmissions, but I've never heard about data being extracted from those.

f6twister · 04-12-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

We're on our third governor who promised that they'd do something about the insurance companies... I won't see it in my lifetime....

I agree. I've been wanting to see the industry regulated every since I started paying my own insurance but I know that I am asking more than I will ever see. The other dilema is who should regulate it? The government? I haven't been impressed with the governments ability to regulate anything so I guess we are stuck with what we have.

04-12-2005, 06:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Living in a state that has the damn near the highest insurance rates in the country, I'm all for doing anything that would lower said rates... I haven't owner a car in more than 10 years, when I did, it was a piece of shit, Chevette, that was used to get me to and fro the train station, and that was pretty much it... For this rust bucket, which I had no theft and no collission on - I paid over 3000 dollars a year to insure - -or rather me in it.. Why were my rates so high? I was a good driver, I had no speeding tickets, I had two accidents in the course of three weeks -- the first, some buffoon ran a red light and right into my car -- nailed the back end of it - nothing I could do to stop it. The second -- I was stopped at a red light during a snow storm - the bozo who hit me -- slammed on his brakes and skidded into me.. I was a bad risk, in the wrong place at the wrong time... A black box would show that I was indeed a good driver and it was other people that sucked. No fault states need to go - -blame needs to be assigned in accidents. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

04-12-2005, 06:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
f6twister Addict	The problem is that insurance companies can do whatever they want. Without the box, insurance companies apply fault in an accident based on their interpretation. Even if there was no fault on your part, they can still hike the rates to whatever they want anyway. All the box will do is give them more reasons to raise the rates because they could tell everything from seat belt use to speed. Yes, drivers should be wearing their seat belts and driving the speed limit but I will be opposed to the black box information being used by anyone other than law enforcement, at least until I see some sort of regulations on insurance companies. __________________ A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

04-12-2005, 01:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	I think it's important to note that according to the article the "black box" info would only be used in adjusting rates AFTER an accident, thus whether you're a good driver or not most insurance companies, being the money grubbing bastards that they are, would simply use this as one more excuse to hike your rates. After all, the numbers never lie, right? __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

04-12-2005, 06:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	Can law-enforcement subpoena it after an accident? Can you subpoena it from someone who ran into you in a lawsuit? what would stop the insurers from getting the data from publicly filed records?

04-12-2005, 02:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
stingc Psycho Location: PA	In most cars, the "black boxes" are completely integrated with the available safety systems (airbags, belt tensioners, brake assist, stability control, etc.). All of those devices need to have data about speed, steering angle, and so on. At some point, certain manufacturers realized that all of this data that the car was already gathering would be a very useful way of getting (almost) free research about real-world crashes. So the "black box" was invented as something that will store the last few seconds of data after an accident. This has presumably helped engineers to better understand how to make cars safer. I am not aware of any system that records more than a few a seconds worth of information. There wouldn't be any point in keeping track of average speed, etc. A possible exception to this would be in cars with adaptive automatic transmissions, but I've never heard about data being extracted from those.