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News Flash from the Vatican: The "door of death" has been closed

I'm watching it on MSNBC now, and there's no web article about it yet, but the right door of St. Peter's Basilica has been closed, and the bells are tolling. For the past 2000 years, this has only happened when a pope has died, so I think we all know what this means.

*waves buhbye to JP II* Have a nice trip, hope it helps you feel better.

That would be great if the next pope was like... 24 and hip.

How cool would a breakdancing pope be? Those robes flying all over the place

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

T

How cool would a breakdancing pope be? Those robes flying all over the place

Y'all are too young to remember, or perhaps it was even before you were born, JP II was an avid skier in the early days of his papacy and very athletic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace_o_spades

That would be great if the next pope was like... 24 and hip.

How cool would a breakdancing pope be? Those robes flying all over the place

The pope also enjoys the break dancing arts. Hasn't everyone seen the video where the dancers put on a show for him? Don't be a hater just cause he's got a bum hip.

Maybe the new pope would be a snow-boarder then. You know, keeping up with the times. :)

I'm not religious at all, but for his sake, I hope there is a heaven and he enjoys the shit out of the afterlife.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Maybe the new pope would be a snow-boarder then. You know, keeping up with the times. :)

Please. Snowboarding is so 1990. Boarding is just "a way to get down the hill" now.

Well, I have to say, good on ya pope dude. You've had a good run.

new pope names...

I was just talking to Quadro about this...
I've only ever heard of popes being named John Paul or something... wouldn't it be hilarious if the next one was Pope Bill I, or Pope Marty IV???

isn't there an age requirment for a newly apointed pope? I can see them handing over the pope hat to a 24 year old. (Just a random thought as I know nothing about it) Also....does this mean I have to change my avatar out of repsect?

Yeah I think the pope has to be between the ages of 45 and 80.

ANd JustJess... the papal name is not the same as the popes (the man's) real name. JP II's real name is Karol. They assume a new name when they take office, usually the same as that of a previous pope whom they admire. Thus the "the second" part. Granted, I agree that "Pope Tyrone" would be pretty funny.

I vote Marilyn Manson as the next pope.

Yes I am serious.

What I think will be interesting is if the new pope isn't European. Catholic power is waning in Europe while growing in South America. We could have a Pope that grew up in el barrio. What about a black pope?

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter....word112103.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story...055080,00.html

There are a lot of South Americans on that list.

• Francis Arinze (Nigeria, 71), prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship
• Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina, 66), archbishop of Buenos Aires
• Godfried Danneels (Belgium, 70), archbishop of Mechelen-Brussels
• Ivan Dias (India, 67), archbishop of Mumbai (Bombay)
• Cláudio Hummes (Brazil, 69), archbishop of Săo Paolo
• Walter Kasper (Germany, 70), president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity
• Norberto Rivera Carrera (México, 61): archbishop of México City
• Oscar Andrés Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras, 60): archbishop of Tegucigalpa
• Christoph Schönborn (Austria, 58), archbishop of Vienna
• Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy, 69), archbishop of Milan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight_Son

Theoretically any adult male Roman Catholic is eligible, but long-standing practice limits the candidates to cardinals; before John Paul II was elected in 1978, the last non-Italian elected was in the 16th century.

There is no age requirement.

OK...the decorum in here is appaling to say the very least. And this from the view of an athiest. Can we demonstrate just a smidgeon of respect?

How is the Pope chosen?

A new Pope is elected whenever the position becomes vacant. Contrary to what many people believe, the papacy is not decided by the popular vote. Instead, in a system patterned after the Electoral College used in U.S. presidential elections, the Pope is ultimately elected by a College of Cardinals. The entire process is shrouded in heavy secrecy, and vote totals are not released. In fact, the ballots are burned. This makes it nearly impossible to ascertain whether the elections are indeed fair and accurate, or whether “hanging chads” and other such problems may taint the results.

First, the death of the current Pope will be verified by the Camerlengo, the head of the Sacred College of Cardinals, who follows specific procedures, such as the breaking of the papal ring and seal. The Pope is buried and nine days of mourning follow.

Fifteen to 20 days after the Pope's death, the Cardinals meet to elect the next Pontiff. The election, known as a conclave, is held in a sealed and secure part of the Sistine Chapel. Only cardinals under the age of 80 vote, and secret written ballots are used. The Camerlengo and three assistants count the ballots.

Except in special circumstances, a papal candidate must receive two-thirds of the vote plus one to be elected the next Pontiff. Four ballots are taken each day, two in the morning and two in the afternoon, until a vote is successful. The ballots are burned after each vote, and if the vote is unsuccessful, a substance is added to the fire to produce black smoke. Thus, black smoke indicates to the waiting crowd that the voting continues, while white smoke signals that a new Pope has been chosen. When a candidate has been chosen, the dean asks him if he accepts the papacy. If he does, he is appointed Bishop of Rome and is announced. Then he appears on the balcony of the Vatican.

While any Roman Catholic adult male is technically papabile (i.e., able to be elected Pope), for centuries only Cardinals have been elected.

The only "age requirement" I've been able to find on anything is that the Cardinals that vote all have to be under the age of 80

Foxnews just reported that the Vatican indicated the popes brain and heart are functioning. I wonder if he died and was resuscitated? Or if that implies the other organs are no longer functioning?

In any case, the pope lives.

You know, I actually learned a lot of this from reading 'Da Vinci Code'?? Thanks for the info, very interesting!

right now, it's seems that his death is just speculation. on msnbc, the vatican denied that he has died, as of 1:55 PM, EST - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7357164/

news @ google seems really ambigious right now...nothing [announcing] of a death, but a few sites [on there] have his obituary already up...

Based on what bendsley posted it makes sense that they would deny his death right now.

I wonder if he did indeed die and was resuscitated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

I was just talking to Quadro about this...
I've only ever heard of popes being named John Paul or something... wouldn't it be hilarious if the next one was Pope Bill I, or Pope Marty IV???

In my life time I've heard of Pope John, Pope Paul, Pope John Paul, and Pope John Paul II. And no it wouldn't be hilarious for him to be Marty IV because there's not been Marty III. :P

from the 1700s
Clement XI (1700-21)
Innocent XIII (1721-24)
Benedict XIII (1724-30)
Clement XII (1730-40)
Benedict XIV (1740-58)
Clement XIII (1758-69)
Clement XIV (1769-74)
Pius VI (1775-99)
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Pius VIII (1829-30)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22)
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978—)

The list of popes

Why can't the Pope be female? Or is it just a matter of time. Didn't they start allowing females to be priests, bishops etc?

Yeah, it was cool: the Pope blessed the breakdancers. I think a Pope in his 50s would be considered young.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Why can't the Pope be female? Or is it just a matter of time. Didn't they start allowing females to be priests, bishops etc?.

Nope, no women in the priesthood in the Catholic Church.

Poor guy
Hes so old =(

Quote:

Originally Posted by bendsley

Except in special circumstances, a papal candidate must receive two-thirds of the vote plus one to be elected the next Pontiff. Four ballots are taken each day, two in the morning and two in the afternoon, until a vote is successful.

It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall of the Sistine Chapel for this. Can you imagine the kind of canvassing that must go on between votes? This is, for all intents and purposes, the election of the sovereign of the catholic church and the Holy See, as well as Vatican properties around the world. It's analogous to electing a king. Even more, this person is going to set the moral tone for a faith followed by hundreds of millions of people. So you better believe it's a political question as well as a religious one.

I remember seeing video of the white smoke when JP2 was elected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbwuto

What about a black pope?

It's interesting that you say that. Now, this has nothing to do with skin color, but it has been prophesied that the next pope will be a "black" pope -- that he will be a servant of the Anti-Christ. I'm not really religious, and not much for prophecy, but it is kind of creepy.

John Paul personally selected all of the current members of the College of Cardinals. Previously the college was made up almost entirely of Italians, but now there is much greater diversity with approximately 40% Hispanic cardinals. I'm sure he made his preferences known long ago.

I am not a Catholic, but I consider John Paul the greatest man of my lifetime.

he has died.

cnn.com. no story or anything yet tho.

it is interesting how the vatican let people know of his death by e-mail.

i am not catholic, but i think it is also interesting that at the moment, there is no pope.

I'm not Cathoic but one has to admire what this man has accomplished in his lifetime. He played a huge part in redrawing the political map of Europe. Very few of us will ever be able to leave this earth and say we've come anywhere close to accompliishing what he has accomplished. God bless and rest in peace John Paul

Quote:

(CNN) -- John Paul II, whose 26-year reign as the charismatic leader of the world's 1 billion Roman Catholics was highlighted by visits to 129 countries, died Saturday. He was 84.

"The Holy Father is deceased this evening at 9:37 in his private apartment," Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said in a written statement.

"Our beloved holy father John Paul II has returned to his home. Let us pray for him," he added.

Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's secretary of state, asked the throng of thousands of faithful who had congregated in St. Peter's Square for a few moments of silence as he announced the death to thousands gathered at the site. Members of the crowd bowed their heads to pray, some of them in tears.

They then burst into applause.

"Let perpetual light shine on him and let him repose in peace," he said.

A Mass in the pope's honor will be held at 10:30 a.m. Sunday, he said.

The pope -- known for his energy, intellectualism and activism on the global stage -- died Saturday night at his apartments in the Vatican. His health had been deteriorating severely for several weeks and he had battled Parkinson's disease and crippling arthritis for years.

The Vatican said Saturday morning that John Paul II had slipped in and out of consciousness after his heart and kidneys started to fail after a urinary tract infection.

Navarro-Valls said that despite his precarious health, the pope had decided to remain in his residence at the Vatican, rather than returning to Gemelli hospital in Rome, where he had been hospitalized twice since February.

He was administered the sacrament of anointing the sick, formerly known as last rites or extreme unction, on Thursday night.

Pilgrims, tourists and Italians filled St. Peter's Square on Saturday, hours after tens of thousands of people packed the vast space in a nighttime vigil.

Friday night, thousands of people gathered in Krakow, Poland -- where John Paul served as archbishop before becoming pope -- at the archbishop's residence, many carrying candles and crying. People in the crowd prayed and sang for their fellow Pole.

"To Polish people, he is an icon," said Alicja Kapusciarz, a Polish-American woman in Washington.
Lengthy reign as pope

Rising from humble beginnings in pre-World War II Poland, he was the most widely traveled pope in history and was the first to visit the White House, a synagogue and communist Cuba.

Only two of his 263 predecessors served longer than he did -- St. Peter, the first pope, and Pius IX in the 19th century.

Supporters and critics alike agree on the immense significance of his papacy.

He played a key role in the fall of communism and brought the Catholic message in person to an unprecedented number of people.

He drew enormous crowds in his public appearances and was known for his courage and integrity.

A profoundly conservative leader, he reaffirmed many of the church's stances on issues such as abortion, homosexuality and the role of women in the church.

Despite criticism, he remained unwavering on those and other stances, including his preference for centralized authority within the church, which some saw as hindering a move toward a more democratic church.
Chronic illnesses

The pope suffered from severe hip and knee ailments and Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder that can make breathing and swallowing difficult.

On February 24, doctors performed a tracheotomy to help him breathe, as he struggled to recover from a bout of flu that hospitalized him.

On Wednesday, a feeding tube was put down his nose into his stomach to provide additional nutrition.

The feeding tube was inserted shortly after the pope's regular weekly audience, where he appeared at the window of his study overlooking St. Peter's Square for about four minutes.

Unable to speak, he used hand gestures to bless thousands of people who gathered for a glimpse of him.

On Easter, the pope also tried to speak to the crowds but could not get out the words. Ill health forced him to miss several events during Holy Week preceding Easter.
Papal legacy

John Paul was born Karol Jozef Wojtyla on May 18, 1920, in Wadowice, Poland.

After his ordination as a priest in November 1946, he rose steadily through the church hierarchy, becoming archbishop of Krakow in 1964.

He was elevated to cardinal in a secret consistory in 1968 and formally installed in a Vatican ceremony days later.

Despite his reputation as a formidable theologian and fearless defender of Catholic interests, his election as pope October 16, 1978 -- the first-ever Slavic pope and the first non-Italian to occupy the post in 455 years -- came as a surprise.

So too did the energy and determination he brought to his papacy, never letting health issues get in the way of his travels.

Not even an attempted assassination in 1981 kept him down. A Turk named Mehmet Ali Agca shot him twice. The pope recovered and later met Agca in prison and personally forgave him.

He re-established the Vatican's diplomatic relations with Great Britain and the United States, as well as with Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization.

He delivered more than 2,000 public addresses and issued countless numbers of encyclicals and apostolic letters, making him one of the most active men ever to occupy the papal see. He canonized 482 saints, more than any other pontiff, and created 232 cardinals.

His papacy was divided into two distinct halves.

"In the first 10 years his great concern was with communism," said Warsaw-based Catholic commentator Jonathon Luxmore. "Since then his focus has been more on the ills of Western society."

John Paul's role in the fall of communism was a subtle but crucial one. His visit to Poland in 1979 and his support for the Solidarity movement were key in the chain of events that led to the eventual crumbling of Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski's regime 10 years later.

His stand against what he saw as the moral failure of Western capitalism, however, was notably less successful.

Although his outspoken views on human rights gained him many admirers, his preaching in such areas as sexual mores, science and the role of women in the church alienated many liberal Catholics.

"He was what you might call a revolutionary conservative," said Giovanni Ferro, editor of the Rome-based Catholic magazine Jesus.

"In some areas he was very forward-minded. In others, however, he was an extremely traditionalist pope. He maintained all sorts of opposing currents in the church, with the result that his successor will probably be faced with a great crisis of direction."

Who that successor will be remains to be decided by the College of Cardinals, which will meet at the Vatican in the coming days to select the next pope.

Whoever it is will struggle to make his mark, succeeding as he does one of the longest-serving and most contentious figures in papal history.

"One thing is for certain," Luxmore said. "[John Paul II] is going to be a terrifically hard act to follow."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...ies/index.html

I am a baptised Catholic, though non-practicing. Still, because much of my family is devout Catholic and I was brought up around the culture, I am very saddened. This is the only Pope I have ever known and he was the symbol of the church to me.

Ironically, in about 30 minutes I have to go to my cousin's wedding in a Catholic church. I feel sorry for her because this great sadness and mourning may dampen what was supposed to be a wonderful day.

Rest in peace John Paul II.

Am not a catholic, don't even believe in god, but highly respect the man for all he's done.

Rest in peace John Paul, you will be missed by more than just your followers.

I'm with texAvenger, but I'm realllllllly curious who will end up replacing him, just as long as it's not an American Cardinal, it should be good. It would be best if the Cardinal was an avid American hater, maybe he could put the heat on our president to stop war mongering

Quote:

Originally Posted by basmoq

You think a Protestant president who didn't listen to anybody in this country including some religous leaders would listen to the pope? Uh uh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

The only "age requirement" I've been able to find on anything is that the Cardinals that vote all have to be under the age of 80

If memory serves the youngest cardinal is 54. They should let the pope retire when he gets as bad as ol' JP got, surly he couldn't have been furfilling his dutys with out serious help and interferance from those around him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja

Popes don't retire. Once elected, they're Pope till they die.
I like this system. Really drives home the importance of selecting a good guy. Can't just say "four more years!" like back home, the spiritual direction of an entire generation rests on this upcoming election.
Back to JP, I think it was pretty cool the way he kept going. Sure, he was pretty slow and doddering, but the man was on a mission, he wouldn't stop for any human frailties.
Me, I take a day off work if I get a cold. This might be why the world mourns his passing and nobody even sends me flowers for that cold.
Well, that and doing more to bring democracy to eastern Europe than just about anyone else. That might have helped