superiorrain

So looks like the Popes long life is coming to an end.

Link

I'm not religious but must say that i have felt sorry for the pope ever since he got ill and was forced to carry on working. So here's the deal i was wondering who agrees with me that as soon as a Pope gets as ill as he did, then they should be allowed or forced into retirement and left to rest in peace as normal people would. Remembering he is the leader of one of the biggest institutions in the world and has Parkinson's disease for 10 years.

Oh and what will happen after the pope dies, will anything really change?

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ShaniFaye

Can someone tell me what exactly the "pope" does? All I ever see is him standing on a balcony waving at people (and Im being serious, not snide) I dont understand what function the man has.

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BlueBongo

The pope is the head/leader of the catholic faith and the vatican
(as far as I know anyway).
But I don't feel one way or the other. He wouldn't have become the pope if he hadn't wanted to dedicate his life to that purpose.. so all in all, I don't really think he should have been dismissed when it was found he had parkinsons.

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superiorrain

I think thats about it, but look how he waves, sometimes with one hand sometime with two hands oh and he leads some prayers and stuff. Maybe the next pope will be more active.

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"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C. Clarke

Mbwuto

For a listing of all his duties.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

He's also supposedly beatified more saints than any other Pope before him. Can't stop the blessing train.

From his CNN bio

"Not only is he the most traveled pope in history -- he speaks eight languages, learning Spanish after he became the pope -- he also has been quick to use the media and technology to his advantage."

"His criticism of such dictators as Alfred Stroessner in Paraguay, Augusto Pinochet in Chile and Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines encouraged opposition movements that eventually brought down those governments."

"But the pope hasn't played favorites, and the West has come in for its share of criticism, too. During that first triumphal visit to the United States, he warned his hosts about the dangers of materialism, selfishness and secularism, and suggested lowering the standard of living and sharing the wealth with the Third World."

"John Paul II embarked on nothing less than a restoration of the church, one grounded in its conservative tradition. His rejection of contraception and abortion has been absolute and unbending, and his almost dictatorial manner has not always played well."

"His inflexibility on issues with international ramifications -- birth control in Africa, for example -- has drawn strong criticism."

So I'm pretty sure the pope does more than just wave.

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- people who have fallen into solitary, half-mad grooves of life and given up trying to be normal or decent.

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Blackthorn

Hey they let Michael J Fox continue on why not the Pope? Seriously...you can function with Parkinsons and that along with being the age of 84 he's done remarkably well. I hope that he is granted a merciful and dignified end to his days. He has certainly earned that.

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ratbastid

The Papacy is a lifetime appointment. There's no retiring from Pope any more than a king would retire. It's not at all inappropriate to say that the Pope is the king of the Catholic Church and the Holy See.

While he's been incapacitated, he's had various people assisting him with his duties. He's been more of a moral and spiritual leader than somebody actually beating the streets, the way he did in his earlier years.

ironman

Man, yo got it all wrong! He was not "forced" to continue working, it was his decision, he is the only one who can decide in which moment wants to cease been the Pope. He has already stated many times that as long as his intellectual capacities are ok, he will continue rulling the Church. That a person is old shouldn't be an impediment to do his work. I'm convinced that this Pope has made a great deal of work to make this place a better world. Anyway, i think he will die soon and then, we will have a new Pope, let's pray for the new Pope to be a tremendous example of human beeing as John Paul II and to take actions in some of the religious needs of the catholics around the world.

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JustJess

I'm hoping for a younger, more moderate replacement to come in - so let him die, for gods' sakes. (not a typo.) Funny, he's against abortion and birth control, but has no problem being fitted with a feeding tube - double standard, anyone?
Don't forget his other major duty - making sure those evil gay people can't marry or go to heaven.
Sorry... I have a pet peeve about religion being used to tell a lot of people it's okay to hate certain groups.

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JustJess

hm. perhaps I shouldn't be posting in here - sorry, ironman!

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Mbwuto

The hell you talking about? Double standard my ass. As much as I dislike most Roman Catholic practices concerning sexuality, the Pope isn't committing any double standard here.

His stance on abortion and birth control is that life is sacred and should be propagated at all times. Feeding tube, same thing. It's all about life with the Pope.

Sorry, I have a pet peeve about people saying things which are logically retarded.

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- people who have fallen into solitary, half-mad grooves of life and given up trying to be normal or decent.

George Orwell

JustJess

Huh, you know, I've never thought of it that way? It's a strong viewpoint, I have to say. The way I was looking at it was sometimes abortion and lots of times real birth control are enhancing quality/ability to live, and so are the other medical advances he's using. I.e. why is one medical advance okay, but not others?
Honest, I'm not trying to cause a problem - I just love discussing this stuff.

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superiorrain

May not have been forced but still all this 'work' he has to do, continually day after day having to do something can't of been helpful to his condition. I have no problems with old people working as long as they're fit to. But you can tell me he has in the last 5 years been up to all holding mass, the guy looks so tired when he's giving mass plus people can bearly understand him anymore. I think it would have been more appropriate if he has retired, and like most retired taken it easy perhaps gone a cruise or something.

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Mbwuto

I dig, I didn't mean to sound like a dick either(something I manage to do constantly anyway). For some reason I have a soft spot for the current pope.

Really, in my own cynical view, I think all the don't be gay, don't fap, no abortion, no birth control, sex for procreation rules are just designed to churn out more believers. While I doubt many, if any, ranking catholics view it as such, it just seems to be the orientation of the rules.

I see your medical advancement premise, but I really think it's just about preserving life for this current pope,

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- people who have fallen into solitary, half-mad grooves of life and given up trying to be normal or decent.

George Orwell

tecoyah

He had a disease but could still function


To be Honest.....he, and what he leads are somewhat irrelevant to my life anyway, and I doubt he could fuck that institution up anymore than it already is.....heh

No offense intended....just my belief

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JustJess

I love, LOVE, the idea of the pope on a cruise... sitting on the sundeck and wearing the hat.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

JustJess

yeah... i have a LOT of issues with the way that whole thing has been run... lucky for me i was never catholic or christian!!!!
Ah, tecoyah, i think that you and i will someday rant together.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Xenomorph

I can't understand the news articles that are cropping up that are branding his papacy a disaster because he won't give any ground to stem cell research or gay marriage or condom use or whatever. As much as the Holy Father has done for the Church, he didn't show up in the early 80s and pull all of Catholic social teaching out of his big bishop hat. I find it both sad and funny that popular egoism here in the U.S. has it that the teachings of a 2,000 year old worldwide organization should be in full agreement with the social norms of one place at one time just because that place and time happens to be our own.

I'm not too worried about the pope in his current situation now, though. While nobody knows for sure how he feels and what he thinks but he and God, I'm pretty bloody sure that he's going straight to heaven. He's had one of the most demanding roles a single human can undertake for over 25 years and stated publicly that come hell, high water, Parkison's, or whatever else, he's going to keep at it until he dies. I don't think eternal paradise will be all that bad compared to what the poor man is suffering now as a result of his body's failure.

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JustJess

Of course he didn't - that's why I'm not Catholic.

What other time and place SHOULD it be in sync with? Don't you think that in order to fulfill the needs of its constituents, it should be able to evolve with them? I don't think 2,000 year old rules should be applicable to now if we've changed past their appropriateness.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

ironman

Don't worry, I truly beleive that everyone is entitled to express his own ideas and thoughts. As a Catholic, i always try to be as tolerant as i can be.

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skier

As for preserving the sanctity of life, what if the pope ended up like how schiavo? (crummy example, but it works)

Science keeping his body alive, but apparantly nobody "upstairs"? Would the church keep him alive until massive organ failure some 50 years further down the road?

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maleficent

From what I've read, he opted not to go to the hospital, so it doesn't sound like he would want that, not that it matters now, because Reuters and the italian press are reporting that he is indeed dead.

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feelgood

Well, if the Pope was moved from his duties and replaced, he'll be the first pope in..well, a long time to be replaced by somebody else.

If I recall history, Popes usually lived out their days or get killed by something unnatural. I think the last Pope to resign was back in 1700s or something like that.

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ShaniFaye

Its being reported now on the news that he has passed away....nothing confirmed on CNN yet though

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Bill O'Rights

John Paul II's successor will be the 5th pope within my lifetime. I don't really know why I threw that out there...I just found it interesting.

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superiorrain

I don't know i think that that is interesting, he'll be the second pope that i'll know and the first that i'll see that is youngish and active. Then maybe i'll understand his role far more than i do.

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JustJess

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that too - I've only ever known one pope's rule (not that I've known so in-depth or anything).

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

liquidlight

Allowed to carry on? Sure if he wants to, and everything that I've seen of the guy is that he's tough as nails.

Forced to carry on? I don't think anybody should be forced into a position that stressful, whether they're healthy or otherwise.

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Xenomorph

I don't think a pope has resigned since the 15th or 16th century.

I didn't mean to spark a debate with my last comment. This is General Discussion. I was just expressing frustration with all the near-obituaries that are flying around. As significant as John Paul II is to Catholicism, he's really just an (exceptionally bright) flicker in the grand history and teachings of the faith. He is blamed in some of these articles for maintaining centuries-old moral teachings as if he came up with them and oppressively enforced them himself.

To address your concern though, Jess, we Catholics believe that church doctrine should be in sync with the will of God rather than any one human culture. Obviously if you don't believe God exists, we know why we have different viewpoints. Popular values are fickle things. There's nothing to say that 2055 is going to be any more similar to 2005 than 1955 is. Anyone who claims to teach an objective, eternal moral code needs a stronger foundation than the latest ethical trends.

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Destrox

I voted Couldn't care less.

Simply because I dont.

I heavily dislike organized relgions such as those.

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Demeter

I'm not Catholic, or religious by any means, but this man sure has a place in a lot of hearts. I loathed to see him try to function, as his physical abilities weakened, and his health grew poorer. I remember as a child, he seemed almost mythical, in his garb & with his entourage.
I recall hearing about what a remarkable man he was, in the years before he was the Pope. He gave his life to his work. That's a wonderful example for us all.

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bernadette

imho, it was fine that he carried on til today, the day he died. his mind was all still quite intact.

he became pope 26 yrs ago.
hopefully, his successor will be a bit more in tunes with the times & the current world's needs. afterall, it is sometimes difficult to teach an old <strike>dog</strike> pope new tricks. oh gosh. that sounds way wrong. hopefully you get my drift w/o dirty thoughts.

he was a cute pope though.
i hope heaven has a harley waiting for him & he can ditch the pope mobile.

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ShaniFaye

you know...I was listening to Hannity on the way home today and he had a Rabbi on that was talking about the Pope and all the good things he had done for the catholics relationship with the Jews....I thought that was really cool.....it makes me want to learn more about him.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

maleficent

Coppertop, in Politics, posted a really good synopsis of his history-- the man has done a lot, and seen a lot...

Pope John Paul II history

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jalora

I will always admire the man for fighting the Nazis. Thumbs up for our first Polish Pope.

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lordkos

Ah hes old and im not catholic anyways

superiorrain

I'm not catholic either but doesn't stop me caring, he's still human and since opening this thread i have learnt so much about him. I just hope that he has a peaceful time rock'n on to the afterlife. He certainly seems like a strong guy, afterall he has held on all through the night when everyone thought he wouldn't. God Bless

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"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C. Clarke

Gilda

I voted couldn't care. I'm a lapsed Catholic, and disagreed with nearly everything he, and the church he headed, stood for. Not saying I'm glad he's gone, just indifferent.