Man goes on gas station rampage - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kel · 03-28-2005, 04:48 PM

Source: http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...05-468776.html

Quote:

A Philadelphia man shot and killed one man and seriously injured another after at least six others began fighting with him at a Bensalem Wawa early Easter morning, police said.

No charges have been filed and police declined to release the names of anyone involved until their investigation is completed.

Bucks County District Attorney Diane Gibbons said a group of 17- to 20-year-old Philadelphia residents were drinking and partying late Saturday night into Sunday morning in a room at the Neshaminy Motor Inn on Route 1 in Bensalem. The motel is about 100 yards from the Philadelphia line.

When they got noisy and were kicked out of the motel, they crossed the highway to the Wawa gas station and convenience store, according to Gibbons. Shortly before 2 a.m. the crowd of young men got into a fight in the parking lot of the store with a 24-year-old man they didn't know, police said. It was unclear how the fight started, but Gibbons said the 24-year-old was beaten before he pulled a gun and shot Matt Taylor, 19, of Mayfair and another Philadelphian, 18.

The 24-year-old had not been involved in the earlier drinking party and did not appear to have been drinking, according to Gibbons.

"The guy came in [to the store] and said 'Call the cops; I been jumped' and the one kid [involved in the fight] said 'No, you were the shooter,' " said a Wawa associate who dialed 911. The employee asked not to be identified.

Both gunshot victims were taken to Frankford Hospitals' Torresdale campus, police said. Gibbons said Taylor died at the hospital as a result of a bullet that entered just below his sternum and exited below his right shoulder blade. An autopsy was performed at the hospital.

The second man was in surgery Sunday morning with a gunshot wound to the abdomen, Gibbons said. He was in critical condition Sunday night, hospital officials said.

Police also photographed the 24-year-old man's injuries from the fight. According to Gibbons, her office and the Bensalem police are continuing to look into the incident.

"We are investigating three things, the two shootings and the physical altercation," Gibbons said.

Police closed the convenience store for about an hour, but a section of the gas pump area and parking lot remained closed Sunday morning. Police said they recovered five shell casings at the scene. About a dozen witnesses were questioned at the Bensalem police station soon after the shootings. According to Gibbons, the 24-year-old man had a license for the handgun.

Friends of the dead man were visibly distraught as they walked out of the police station into the Easter morning light.

"Who brings a gun to Wawa?" one man asked anyone who would listen.

As another man left the station he learned his friend had died. He slumped to a bench and buried his head in his hands.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Bensalem Township Police Department at 215-633-3700.

Matt Coughlin can be reached at 215-949-4172 or mcoughlin@phillyBurbs.com.

Now what cheeses me off is that the words self defense don't appear anywhere in this column. What's worse is that a disturbingly large percentage of Americans think that he should not have been able to defend himself. Most disturbing to me is the fact that we as a society are responsible for what happens to those we render defenseless and I hate having that on my head.

So TFers I ask you, what do you think, good shoot?
Is this how the Pizza place should have turned out?

Coppertop · 03-28-2005, 04:50 PM

Self defense, all the way. Poorly titled thread, though.

kel · 03-28-2005, 05:02 PM

The title is intentional. It's sarcasm referring to the slant of the article.

JStrider · 03-28-2005, 05:05 PM

from what the article says it sounds like he was justified in defending himself in the way he did.

its too bad it had to come to that... but they attacked him, and he defended himself.

whocarz · 03-28-2005, 05:42 PM

Reminds me of the time I had to pull a knife on six goons that jumped me. Thankfully, I didn't have to use it because they backed down as soon as they saw it.

I'd say these guys got what they were looking for.

RangerDick · 03-28-2005, 06:03 PM

Wait a sec?!? Guns are evil and the fact that normal, law abiding citizens carry them only provides criminals chance to overpower and take their weapon from them. This is a travesty! He should never have had that gun and defended himself! We don't even know whether or not the 17-20 drunk people who attacked him were properly breast fed or were denied that shiny red bicycle they wanted for Christmas when they were only 5 years old. The 17-20 drunk people were the VICTIMS! Especially the guy who got shot. I weep for his soul and am burning some incense and pulling a big fat bong tube in his honor. When will the American people stand up for the real victims!?!

......in my excitement I misread the numbers in the article. Not 17-20 attackers (ages). 6 attackers...... my bad.

jorgelito · 03-28-2005, 06:27 PM

It is incredible that the kids don't see themselves at fault:

Quote - Who brings a gun to Wawa?

Um, who jumps and attacks "innocent" people?

Kel, where does it say 'a disturbingly large percentage of Americans believe he should not be able to defend himself?'

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers cause that's just messed up. Pizza man should of been armed. I for one, would not miss those two from society.

Halx · 03-28-2005, 06:32 PM

Call me a gamer, but if you're gonna call something a rampage, I want at least 10 dead.

liquidlight · 03-28-2005, 06:56 PM

I agree with Halx, though it's amazing the bias that the reporter included in the article. So much for journalistic integrity.

kel · 03-28-2005, 07:38 PM

Take a look at the number of criminal friendly/gun free zones, take a look at national legislation. 46+ states do not allow concealed carry without paying for a permit and waiting months on the off chance they issue it to you(as is the case for the majority of the population, which will be delayed or denied). Even more states don't allow open carry with or without a permit. Waiting periods which make handguns unavailable to those who need them NOW due to a clear and present threat. Openly hostile law enforcement officers in many states and cities who will stop you and search you if they see you carrying even in states where it is legal to carry openly.

NY, Chicago, Boston, Washington D.C., and any populated area in California all deny either ownership or right to carry or both. That is a huge chunk of the population that has chosen to deny itself and anyone unfortunate enough to live there the most expedient means of protection. I think it's pretty clear what the majority thinks of defensive handgun usage. It's a slight majority and it's is slowly shrinking for now, but it is still significant and disturbing. Politicians did not make these changes in a vacuum.

nowthen · 03-28-2005, 07:46 PM

99 times out of a hundred, they would all have been laughing in college monday about how they "totally kicked that dudes arse, man" - just this one time they picked on the wrong fucking hombre.

there is a life lesson in there somewhere for these jerks.

Janey · 03-28-2005, 07:47 PM

wow. why is there a need to defend oneself? and to use such extreme means to do so? is there such open anarchy?

cj2112 · 03-28-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

wow. why is there a need to defend oneself? and to use such extreme means to do so? is there such open anarchy?

6 young men attacked one person, I'd call that open anarchy. I don't view using a firearm as being extreme in a situation such as this. Look around you honestly...Look at the society in which we live. Rape, battery, and murder are so common that most of us don't even react when we read about these things or hear about them on the news. Not only are the police unable to protect us 24 hours a day, it's not their job to protect us. I for one prefer to take responsibility for my own safety and that of my family. I feel a proactive stance rather than a reactive stance is much more responsible.

thalakos315 · 03-28-2005, 10:38 PM

i can't really express an opinion on weither or not he was justified.. theres to many variables.. how did the fight start for example. was he able to defend himself without the use of excessive force?
did he try to diffuse the situation at all? if he antagonized these kids before the fight at all then i wouldn't say the use of deadly force was justified..

was there any reason for this guy to be fearing for his life? i mean its a group of drunken teenagers

as for the dumb comments from the kids after the incident.. assume everybody has a gun, that way when you start shit with somebody, you won't be suprised when they shoot your stupid ass.

what i find odd about this.. is that the rest of the kids decided to stick around AFTER two of them got shot. i wonder what happend between the time of the shooting, and the time the police got there.

asudevil83 · 03-28-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thalakos315

i can't really express an opinion on weither or not he was justified.. theres to many variables.. how did the fight start for example. was he able to defend himself without the use of excessive force?
did he try to diffuse the situation at all? if he antagonized these kids before the fight at all then i wouldn't say the use of deadly force was justified..

was there any reason for this guy to be fearing for his life? i mean its a group of drunken teenagers

as for the dumb comments from the kids after the incident.. assume everybody has a gun, that way when you start shit with somebody, you won't be suprised when they shoot your stupid ass.

what i find odd about this.. is that the rest of the kids decided to stick around AFTER two of them got shot. i wonder what happend between the time of the shooting, and the time the police got there.

agreed, many of you are basing you opinions on a story that many of you also say is poorly written and biased. who knows what else was left out of it. BUT, if i were to base my opinion soley on this story, i'd say that the guy with the gun was completely justified with what he did.

it sounds like he (a sober individual) was attacked by 6 guys looking for trouble. they just ended up finding the WRONG guy.

as for those who cant find the use of such extreme force....if a police officer was put in the same position of being attacked by 6 drunken individuals, he'd probably do the same thing. when drunks go out looking to beat the shit out of someone, generally they BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE. they dont just punch and kick, they fucking beat you do a bloody pulp.....unless you can defend yourself with a weapon.

oh yeah.....and if I'M at a gas station at 2 in the morning and six drunk fuckers try to start shit with me, I'D be fucking fearing for my life. and if I had a gun and was attacked by 6 drunks, in a gas station, I'D make sure they knew that I had a gun.

Irishsean · 03-28-2005, 11:59 PM

I occasionally travel to the north las vegas area to do some freelance work down there. When I do travel there, I will carry my fully licensed pistol which I do have a concealed carry permit for. It is a bad area, and I have witnessed shootings in that area.

If 6 people jump me, and start beating on me in a gas station, I will pull my gun, and proceed to defend myself. At the point where they are running, or laying on the ground is when I will consider myself safe enough to stop firing.

I'm not really a violent person, but 6 people attacking me for no reason is a threat to your life, and your completely justified in defending yourself.

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-29-2005, 02:16 AM

Let's look at this in sequence.

6 drunk teenagers. Get kicked out of hotel for being rowdie. Go across street to gas station. A fight just happens to insue.

The facts not being out there for us ATM, I think it is probably safe to assume that the lone gunman here did not start the fight. He was sober, strapped, and pumping gas... enter a bunch of stupid kids who are tanked, just got 86'd from their lodging, and probably have their drunk balls on (feeling tough, looking for a fight).

I saying if this is the case then good riddance, I'm glad he pulled his piece and opened fire. You are both insane and stupid if you don't think he is justified in doing so. 6 drunk teens walk up to you and pick a fight/start beating on you, you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen to you, not to mention, the odds are heavily stacked against you.

Also Thalakos I can tell you what happened after the shootings, before the cops got in there, the kids got sobered up damn quick after they realized they fucked with the wrong person.

03-29-2005, 02:24 AM

I dont like guns.. I live in England which is not yet like America for gun carrying. Hopefully it never will be. But if you live in a country where its legal to carry a gun for your protection and it seems he had a legal permit for it ..then this seems to be the perfect point for why you would carry one.

He seems to have used it for what it was intended , to protect himself . So he should be dealt with leniantly in my opinion.

Blue Fish · 03-29-2005, 06:29 AM

Sad as it is to say I'd rather it be them them not me not going home after the altercation. I would rather have to explain to my kids why I did what I did rather then my wife having to explain why I am in the hospital or dead. That being said, I don't carry a gun but I do my best not to find myself in situations where something like this may happen. I can't remember the last time I just had to go to a convienence store at 2:00am.

ironman · 03-29-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

6 young men attacked one person, I'd call that open anarchy. I don't view using a firearm as being extreme in a situation such as this. Look around you honestly...Look at the society in which we live. Rape, battery, and murder are so common that most of us don't even react when we read about these things or hear about them on the news. Not only are the police unable to protect us 24 hours a day, it's not their job to protect us. I for one prefer to take responsibility for my own safety and that of my family. I feel a proactive stance rather than a reactive stance is much more responsible.

Is it so hard to identify sarcasm?

Seanland · 03-29-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

It is incredible that the kids don't see themselves at fault:

Quote - Who brings a gun to Wawa?

Um, who jumps and attacks "innocent" people?

Kel, where does it say 'a disturbingly large percentage of Americans believe he should not be able to defend himself?'

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers cause that's just messed up. Pizza man should of been armed. I for one, would not miss those two from society.

It doesnt state anywhere that they jump an innocent person... maybe he was at fault, maybe he started calling them on, you dont know

and you dont need a gun to defend yourself.

Lebell · 03-29-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanland

It doesnt state anywhere that they jump an innocent person... maybe he was at fault, maybe he started calling them on, you dont know

and you dont need a gun to defend yourself.

And maybe the facts are exactly that: the guy was innocent and 6 guys picked a fight with him.

In that case, how was the guy supposed to defend himself? By saying, "Please please don't beat me up"?

Or would it have been better if he had let them put him in the hospital?

But let's just assume for ONE minute he WAS calling them out. One guy, not drunk, not part of a group, calling out SIX DRUNK guys who are raising hell.

If so, you seem to be saying that it was ok for SIX DRUNK guys to start kicking the shit out of ONE guy and that he DESERVED it.

Now THAT'S crazy.

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-29-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanland

It doesnt state anywhere that they jump an innocent person... maybe he was at fault, maybe he started calling them on, you dont know

and you dont need a gun to defend yourself.

Sure you don't need a gun to defend yourself, but that is largely depending on the situation at hand. If you find yourself in a semi-controllable situation, where the odds aren't 6 on 1, maybe something more "fair" 2-1 1-1, but hell anything at 3 on 1 or more, a gun is a perfect equalizer.

OFKU0 · 03-29-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

wow. why is there a need to defend oneself? and to use such extreme means to do so? is there such open anarchy?

A little story for my fellow Canadian Janey. A friend of mine who happens to be involved in martial arts got jumped some years ago outside the Eaton's Centre in Toronto by about 15 skinheads. They got his jacket and his shoes but not before he put a half a dozen in the hospital, the worst with a broken eye orbital and shattered jaw.

He was charged and convicted of 3 counts of aggravated assault causing bodily damage and placed on 5 years probation. He may have had the charges dropped if he showed "remorse" for his actions, but since he was the one attacked, he didn't buy into that silly notion. He told the judge if he didn't defend himself he might have ended up dead. In the end the judge treated the young offenders with kiddy gloves and sent them home with their parents to suburbia.

I asked my friend that if he had a gun when they attacked him, would he have used it. He said without a doubt. And I'd have done the same.

And if not a gun,...a baseball bat, stick, lead pipe anything for survival. But if that weren't available to me and I were beaten and lived,...I go back and even the score, one way or the other. Not very Canadian of me eh?

Seanland · 03-29-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

3 on 1 or more, a gun is a perfect equalizer.

I donno, after thinking about this, he shot, 2 people... and fired 5 rounds..
if there was 6 people trying to fight him, how did he get 5 rounds off...
I mean, 1 shot, gun should have been taken or they ran.. and even if they ran he shot 2 of them not one.. I still don't know how innocent this guy is

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-29-2005, 10:27 AM

I'm getting the vibe that you are presuming he is the guilty one, which he could very well be, but if I had to pick between 6 rowdie drunk moron kids who had just gotten kicked out of their motel and a guy filling up his tank at 2am, I would probably side with one guy.

Seanland · 03-29-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

I'm getting the vibe that you are presuming he is the guilty one, which he could very well be, but if I had to pick between 6 rowdie drunk moron kids who had just gotten kicked out of their motel and a guy filling up his tank at 2am, I would probably side with one guy.

I'm not saying generally hes the guilty one. I'm trying to say that his actions were a little too much.. the newspaper says he came running in the shop to call the cops.. which obviously means, the kids ran away, but the question really is, at what shot did they run away...

I mean if they ran after the first shot... and the guy just kept shotting at them... how innocent is he?

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-29-2005, 10:38 AM

In a case of self defense you are allowed to defend yourself until you determine you are no longer in great physical danger. I don't know what kind of gun he was shooting, but chances are if 6 kids are swarming and beating on you, it wouldn't be that tough to get off six shots, the shit goes down really fast. Hell I bet the kids didn't even react until after he fired 2 or 3 shots.

Seanland · 03-29-2005, 11:01 AM

I Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the investigation shows

liquidlight · 03-29-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanland

I'm not saying generally hes the guilty one. I'm trying to say that his actions were a little too much.. the newspaper says he came running in the shop to call the cops.. which obviously means, the kids ran away, but the question really is, at what shot did they run away...

I mean if they ran after the first shot... and the guy just kept shotting at them... how innocent is he?

Given the situation and at how much of a disadvantage that this person found himself I'm AMAZED at the level of restraint that he demonstrated in only firing 5 rounds. I'm familiar with guns, and from a semiautomatic weapon on a full pull I can empty a 15 round clip in about 2.5 seconds.

Have you ever fired a gun? Or been presented with a situation that you overreacted to? With the amount of adrenaline that's inherent to an encounter like this with a semi-automatic pistol 5 rounds would quite literally require less than 1 second to discharge.

I worry that in a situation like this the people doing the attacking are going to be favored because of an abnormal sympathy felt for the man protecting himself because he had a gun.

As it's been said, if he hadn't been able to defend himself with force the most likely result of this encounter would have been him ending up in the hospital or worse, and then this thread would have been our moral outrage at the six teenagers and how could they possibly do this to another person?! Instead we're now questioning whether this mans actions were justified and turning him into the bad guy in a situation that he had very little control over.

Oh yeah, and read it again, the kids didn't run away, even after shooting the 2 of them they were so drunk and aggressive that they stayed at the scene!

pocon1 · 03-29-2005, 11:08 AM

Teen Found Guilty In Slurpee Killing
18-Year-Old Beaten To Death Outside Convenience Store

POSTED: 3:13 pm EST March 25, 2005
UPDATED: 6:46 pm EST March 25, 2005

UPPER MARLBORO, Md. -- A jury has found a teenager accused of killing an 18-year-old man over a girl and a Slurpee guilty.

FeedRoom

Teen Convicted In Slurpee Murder

In a Prince George's County courtroom Friday, 16-year-old Emmanuel McClain, of Suitland, was convicted on four counts in the beating death of 18-year-old Michael Bassett.

Police and prosecutors said McClain beat Bassett outside a convenience store on Silver Hill Road in Suitland last May after Basset offered to buy a Slurpee for a girl standing nearby. Bassett was left for dead near a busy roadway and was hit by oncoming traffic. He died from injures sustained at the scene.

State's Attorney Glenn Ivey said justice has been done and closure can now come to the Bassett family.

McClain faces at least 65 years in jail when he's sentenced on May 12.

Two other teenagers are also facing charged in the case.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe he knew about this poor kid that got jumped outside a convenience store last year and was killed. There were also around 5 or 6 people involved in that too. This occured in my region. Plus, there have been many instances where someone is knocked to the ground, someone else kicks him, and then there is a severed spinal cord or dain bramage or death. Group beatings often turn out very bad, and this guy may have had no idea of what he was getting into that night. Until there is more information, I would have to side with the shooter. Shoot a few more assholes and maybe people will leave you alone when you are trying to just go about your business.

skier · 03-29-2005, 12:03 PM

6 older drunk teenagers is plenty for a mob mentality. I've seen it in clubs- a guy will dance withthe wrong girl and 6 or 7 guys will beat him to the floor and then starting shitkicking. The only reason it stops is because of the bouncers.

I think this guy was scared. Surrounded by six guys provoking then beating him up, for no other reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I had a gun on me in that situation I would certainly use it.

pattycakes · 03-29-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanland

I donno, after thinking about this, he shot, 2 people... and fired 5 rounds..
if there was 6 people trying to fight him, how did he get 5 rounds off...
I mean, 1 shot, gun should have been taken or they ran.. and even if they ran he shot 2 of them not one.. I still don't know how innocent this guy is

i guess you never shot a gun. when you shoot, you just pull the trigger you dont count you, aim and you pull.

Now as for all of the facturs that could be. IF!!!!

if he was jumped and attacked and he DID NOT CALL them out ( which i doubt he did) then he had every reason to open fire.

slant eyes · 03-29-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

I donno, after thinking about this, he shot, 2 people... and fired 5 rounds..
if there was 6 people trying to fight him, how did he get 5 rounds off...
I mean, 1 shot, gun should have been taken or they ran.. and even if they ran he shot 2 of them not one.. I still don't know how innocent this guy is

Quote:

Both gunshot victims were taken to Frankford Hospitals' Torresdale campus, police said. Gibbons said Taylor died at the hospital as a result of a bullet that entered just below his sternum and exited below his right shoulder blade. An autopsy was performed at the hospital.

The second man was in surgery Sunday morning with a gunshot wound to the abdomen, Gibbons said. He was in critical condition Sunday night, hospital officials said.

according to the autopsy, and if anatomy doesn't fail me, it seems as though both gunshots entered from the front.

victim suffered from a gunshot that entered just below the sternum and exited right below the right shoulder blade. because of the angle of entry and exit, it seems 1 of 3 things happened here.

1) man shoots kid while kid was on the floor

2) man holds gun like he was a cowboy gunslinger, at his waist, shooting up

-or-

3) man was jumped, taken to the ground, hunched over, pulled out gun and shot the teen from a lower vantage point

well, seeing as there were six of them, had he tripped one, or even took one to the ground, the other 5 were there to continue kicking the living shit out of him. and since he wasn't in an old western gun duel with the teen who got shot, i'm gonna go with option #3.

he probably was on the ground, shot one.

the other victim took a bullet to the abdomen. and since a gun's recoil causes the gun to tip upwards, i'm wanting to believe that the shot to the abdomen was 1 of the first shots. probably from a lower vantage point as well since people don't shoot from the waist.

it seems to me, now i want to stress the word seems, that he probably shot both the kids from the ground before the kids realized, 'shit! he's got a gun'. they sobered up real quick, the man got up off the ground and went to call for help. at this point, the kid who yelled something to the effect of 'you shot us' accompanied him either cuz he was still too drunk, or he felt the situation was no longer as violent.

i think the shooting was justified. i would do the same. seeing how the man went to the attendant to call for help, and the other kid was there, showed me he wasn't the one on a violent rampage, wanting to shoot kids, else he would have at least shot the other kid with him and made a run for it.

CrAzEd · 03-29-2005, 06:28 PM

To me, it clearly sounds like a case of self-defense

pattycakes · 03-29-2005, 06:39 PM

if he gets charged i hope i get jury duty...just so i can let him off for self defence

Fire · 03-30-2005, 10:10 PM

yeah, definately keep us posted on this case- I want to see how it turns out- seems to me he should go free and clear, and the kids should be charged....

Drider_it · 03-30-2005, 11:02 PM

hell i still think here in louisiana and just north in arkansas we have the biggest gun toters in the country with the exception of maybe texas and michigan.

everyone ive ever met down here owns at least 4 guns of various types and knows how to strip clean and fire each one.

sorry but the dude could have gotten off work, forgot to tank up for the next day or what not. night before easter.. everything will be closed he took off to fill up so he'd have the gas for sunday...

a bunch of rowdy teens wander up.. he notices them but keeps to himself. they say something to him and he ignores them. they start to push the issue, then someone gets brave, slaps thier nads in a vice and takes the plunge. now you have the group mentality. everyone in the pool. dude draws the gun and the pucker factor is high. *blat* only thing i saw missing was this: they were too drunk and scared to pull it together to say he came at the group and they were trying to fight him off and hold him and he then pulled a gun. had they been a bunch of jerks sober and a fight you bet your arse they would have done something like that.. thier word agaist his.

but this route.. confirmed kicked out of a motel, drunk and disorderaly conduct.. bah they got what was commin to them. sorry but down here you dont fight one person you end up fighting them and all thier friends.

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-30-2005, 11:08 PM

I would assume there would be tape too, gas stations trying to prevent people from pumping and leaving. Wish some more news would come out on the matter.

Seanland · 03-31-2005, 12:11 AM

any updates, as to what cause the battle betweent the two sides? how it was started yet?

03-28-2005, 05:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	The title is intentional. It's sarcasm referring to the slant of the article. __________________ "It better be funny"

03-28-2005, 05:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	from what the article says it sounds like he was justified in defending himself in the way he did. its too bad it had to come to that... but they attacked him, and he defended himself. __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

03-28-2005, 05:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	Reminds me of the time I had to pull a knife on six goons that jumped me. Thankfully, I didn't have to use it because they backed down as soon as they saw it. I'd say these guys got what they were looking for. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

03-28-2005, 06:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
RangerDick Loser Location: manhattan	Wait a sec?!? Guns are evil and the fact that normal, law abiding citizens carry them only provides criminals chance to overpower and take their weapon from them. This is a travesty! He should never have had that gun and defended himself! We don't even know whether or not the 17-20 drunk people who attacked him were properly breast fed or were denied that shiny red bicycle they wanted for Christmas when they were only 5 years old. The 17-20 drunk people were the VICTIMS! Especially the guy who got shot. I weep for his soul and am burning some incense and pulling a big fat bong tube in his honor. When will the American people stand up for the real victims!?! ......in my excitement I misread the numbers in the article. Not 17-20 attackers (ages). 6 attackers...... my bad. Last edited by RangerDick; 03-28-2005 at 06:12 PM..

03-28-2005, 06:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Call me a gamer, but if you're gonna call something a rampage, I want at least 10 dead. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

03-28-2005, 04:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Self defense, all the way. Poorly titled thread, though.

03-28-2005, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	It is incredible that the kids don't see themselves at fault: Quote - Who brings a gun to Wawa? Um, who jumps and attacks "innocent" people? Kel, where does it say 'a disturbingly large percentage of Americans believe he should not be able to defend himself?' I'd be interested in seeing the numbers cause that's just messed up. Pizza man should of been armed. I for one, would not miss those two from society.

03-28-2005, 06:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	I agree with Halx, though it's amazing the bias that the reporter included in the article. So much for journalistic integrity. __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

03-28-2005, 07:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Take a look at the number of criminal friendly/gun free zones, take a look at national legislation. 46+ states do not allow concealed carry without paying for a permit and waiting months on the off chance they issue it to you(as is the case for the majority of the population, which will be delayed or denied). Even more states don't allow open carry with or without a permit. Waiting periods which make handguns unavailable to those who need them NOW due to a clear and present threat. Openly hostile law enforcement officers in many states and cities who will stop you and search you if they see you carrying even in states where it is legal to carry openly. NY, Chicago, Boston, Washington D.C., and any populated area in California all deny either ownership or right to carry or both. That is a huge chunk of the population that has chosen to deny itself and anyone unfortunate enough to live there the most expedient means of protection. I think it's pretty clear what the majority thinks of defensive handgun usage. It's a slight majority and it's is slowly shrinking for now, but it is still significant and disturbing. Politicians did not make these changes in a vacuum. __________________ "It better be funny" Last edited by kel; 03-28-2005 at 07:47 PM..

03-28-2005, 07:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
nowthen Insane Location: Republic of Panama	99 times out of a hundred, they would all have been laughing in college monday about how they "totally kicked that dudes arse, man" - just this one time they picked on the wrong fucking hombre. there is a life lesson in there somewhere for these jerks. __________________ "People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." George Bernard Shaw

03-28-2005, 07:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	wow. why is there a need to defend oneself? and to use such extreme means to do so? is there such open anarchy?

03-28-2005, 10:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
thalakos315 Tilted	i can't really express an opinion on weither or not he was justified.. theres to many variables.. how did the fight start for example. was he able to defend himself without the use of excessive force? did he try to diffuse the situation at all? if he antagonized these kids before the fight at all then i wouldn't say the use of deadly force was justified.. was there any reason for this guy to be fearing for his life? i mean its a group of drunken teenagers as for the dumb comments from the kids after the incident.. assume everybody has a gun, that way when you start shit with somebody, you won't be suprised when they shoot your stupid ass. what i find odd about this.. is that the rest of the kids decided to stick around AFTER two of them got shot. i wonder what happend between the time of the shooting, and the time the police got there.

03-28-2005, 11:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	I occasionally travel to the north las vegas area to do some freelance work down there. When I do travel there, I will carry my fully licensed pistol which I do have a concealed carry permit for. It is a bad area, and I have witnessed shootings in that area. If 6 people jump me, and start beating on me in a gas station, I will pull my gun, and proceed to defend myself. At the point where they are running, or laying on the ground is when I will consider myself safe enough to stop firing. I'm not really a violent person, but 6 people attacking me for no reason is a threat to your life, and your completely justified in defending yourself. __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

03-29-2005, 02:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Let's look at this in sequence. 6 drunk teenagers. Get kicked out of hotel for being rowdie. Go across street to gas station. A fight just happens to insue. The facts not being out there for us ATM, I think it is probably safe to assume that the lone gunman here did not start the fight. He was sober, strapped, and pumping gas... enter a bunch of stupid kids who are tanked, just got 86'd from their lodging, and probably have their drunk balls on (feeling tough, looking for a fight). I saying if this is the case then good riddance, I'm glad he pulled his piece and opened fire. You are both insane and stupid if you don't think he is justified in doing so. 6 drunk teens walk up to you and pick a fight/start beating on you, you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen to you, not to mention, the odds are heavily stacked against you. Also Thalakos I can tell you what happened after the shootings, before the cops got in there, the kids got sobered up damn quick after they realized they fucked with the wrong person. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

03-29-2005, 02:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
Lin Guest	I dont like guns.. I live in England which is not yet like America for gun carrying. Hopefully it never will be. But if you live in a country where its legal to carry a gun for your protection and it seems he had a legal permit for it ..then this seems to be the perfect point for why you would carry one. He seems to have used it for what it was intended , to protect himself . So he should be dealt with leniantly in my opinion.

03-29-2005, 06:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
Blue Fish Tilted Location: NJ, USA	Sad as it is to say I'd rather it be them them not me not going home after the altercation. I would rather have to explain to my kids why I did what I did rather then my wife having to explain why I am in the hospital or dead. That being said, I don't carry a gun but I do my best not to find myself in situations where something like this may happen. I can't remember the last time I just had to go to a convienence store at 2:00am.

03-29-2005, 10:27 AM	#26 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I'm getting the vibe that you are presuming he is the guilty one, which he could very well be, but if I had to pick between 6 rowdie drunk moron kids who had just gotten kicked out of their motel and a guy filling up his tank at 2am, I would probably side with one guy. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

03-29-2005, 10:38 AM	#28 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	In a case of self defense you are allowed to defend yourself until you determine you are no longer in great physical danger. I don't know what kind of gun he was shooting, but chances are if 6 kids are swarming and beating on you, it wouldn't be that tough to get off six shots, the shit goes down really fast. Hell I bet the kids didn't even react until after he fired 2 or 3 shots. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

03-29-2005, 11:01 AM	#29 (permalink)
Seanland Psycho Location: Ontario, Canada	I Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the investigation shows

03-29-2005, 11:08 AM	#31 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	Teen Found Guilty In Slurpee Killing 18-Year-Old Beaten To Death Outside Convenience Store POSTED: 3:13 pm EST March 25, 2005 UPDATED: 6:46 pm EST March 25, 2005 UPPER MARLBORO, Md. -- A jury has found a teenager accused of killing an 18-year-old man over a girl and a Slurpee guilty. FeedRoom Teen Convicted In Slurpee Murder In a Prince George's County courtroom Friday, 16-year-old Emmanuel McClain, of Suitland, was convicted on four counts in the beating death of 18-year-old Michael Bassett. Police and prosecutors said McClain beat Bassett outside a convenience store on Silver Hill Road in Suitland last May after Basset offered to buy a Slurpee for a girl standing nearby. Bassett was left for dead near a busy roadway and was hit by oncoming traffic. He died from injures sustained at the scene. State's Attorney Glenn Ivey said justice has been done and closure can now come to the Bassett family. McClain faces at least 65 years in jail when he's sentenced on May 12. Two other teenagers are also facing charged in the case. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe he knew about this poor kid that got jumped outside a convenience store last year and was killed. There were also around 5 or 6 people involved in that too. This occured in my region. Plus, there have been many instances where someone is knocked to the ground, someone else kicks him, and then there is a severed spinal cord or dain bramage or death. Group beatings often turn out very bad, and this guy may have had no idea of what he was getting into that night. Until there is more information, I would have to side with the shooter. Shoot a few more assholes and maybe people will leave you alone when you are trying to just go about your business.

03-29-2005, 12:03 PM	#32 (permalink)
skier Rawr! Location: Edmontania	6 older drunk teenagers is plenty for a mob mentality. I've seen it in clubs- a guy will dance withthe wrong girl and 6 or 7 guys will beat him to the floor and then starting shitkicking. The only reason it stops is because of the bouncers. I think this guy was scared. Surrounded by six guys provoking then beating him up, for no other reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I had a gun on me in that situation I would certainly use it. __________________ "Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

03-29-2005, 06:28 PM	#35 (permalink)
CrAzEd Upright	To me, it clearly sounds like a case of self-defense

03-30-2005, 10:10 PM	#37 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	yeah, definately keep us posted on this case- I want to see how it turns out- seems to me he should go free and clear, and the kids should be charged.... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

03-30-2005, 11:02 PM	#38 (permalink)
Drider_it Junkie Location: Louisiana	hell i still think here in louisiana and just north in arkansas we have the biggest gun toters in the country with the exception of maybe texas and michigan. everyone ive ever met down here owns at least 4 guns of various types and knows how to strip clean and fire each one. sorry but the dude could have gotten off work, forgot to tank up for the next day or what not. night before easter.. everything will be closed he took off to fill up so he'd have the gas for sunday... a bunch of rowdy teens wander up.. he notices them but keeps to himself. they say something to him and he ignores them. they start to push the issue, then someone gets brave, slaps thier nads in a vice and takes the plunge. now you have the group mentality. everyone in the pool. dude draws the gun and the pucker factor is high. blat only thing i saw missing was this: they were too drunk and scared to pull it together to say he came at the group and they were trying to fight him off and hold him and he then pulled a gun. had they been a bunch of jerks sober and a fight you bet your arse they would have done something like that.. thier word agaist his. but this route.. confirmed kicked out of a motel, drunk and disorderaly conduct.. bah they got what was commin to them. sorry but down here you dont fight one person you end up fighting them and all thier friends. __________________ It means only one thing, and everything: Cut. Once committed to fight, Cut. Everything else is secondary. Cut. That is your duty, your purpose, your hunger. There is no rule more important, no commitment that overrides that one. Cut. The lines are a portrayal of the dance. Cut from the void, not from bewilderment. Cut the enemy as quickly and directly as possible. Cut with certainty. Cut decisively, resoultely. Cut into his strength. Flow through the gaps in his guard. Cut him. Cut him down utterly. Don't allow him a breath. Crush him. Cut him without mercy to the depth of his spirit. It is the balance to life: death. It is the dance with death. It is the law a war wizard lives by, or he dies.

03-30-2005, 11:08 PM	#39 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I would assume there would be tape too, gas stations trying to prevent people from pumping and leaving. Wish some more news would come out on the matter. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

03-31-2005, 12:11 AM	#40 (permalink)
Seanland Psycho Location: Ontario, Canada	any updates, as to what cause the battle betweent the two sides? how it was started yet?