Another School shooting
 

I really dont know what to say about this right now, since there are no real details....but I wanted to post the story. Does anyone in the area have any other details that CNN hasnt posted yet?

Here we go again...

Am I a bad person because the first thing that popped in my head was a new michael moore movie entitled something like.....snowshoeing for redlake?

Apparently the high school is located on the Red Lake Indian Reservation close to the Canadian border.

I see Michael Moore also.......

No, you're not a bad person. It's inevitable that the two schools will be compared. And that goes for all things associated with them as well.

Actually my first thought was: what will they blame this time?
Did he see to many Westerns? Is Mario making our kids violent?

It seems that with many such incidents violent movies / TV shows or video games are blamed.

My second thought went out to the families involved... It's going to be difficult to get over such an event.

I also feel....that somehow....this is once again going to somehow put native americans in the negative spotlight. Or the police..IE=how did he get his grandfathers service piece.

Let's take bets on how long before people start calling for the banning of firearms.

You aren't the only one comparing this to Columbine etc...

Are you implying something when you say close to the Canadian Border?
Cause I don't know up here, we don't have problems like that. Thats something that really baffled me, why people just south of us have problems like this, I think as long as I can remember I've heard of one school shooting here and it was accidental (Gang Fight Gone Wrong) which was like 8 years ago.. I don't get it....
What is the big difference??
If someone can answer me this, I'm sure alot of these problems can be solved or prevented.

I guess not.
From the National Post:
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...9-3ada842d84bc
Sorry but this kind of thing isn't native to the US. Sure, this one was stopped in advance, but if it were really well in advance, there wouldn't even be a threat of it, period.

/end threadjack

This is truly sad. Let us all take a moment of silence for such deaths.

my heart goes out to all those who died and are being affected by it.

Where the social/mental/physical/emotional disconnect happened for this young individual i would like to know and i am sure it will come out fairly soon here . . . :|

Yes, I'm implying that the geographic location is in northern Minnesota close to the Canadian border, nothing more. :)

...
 

... So sad...

Unfortunate too, since the grandfather should have known, as a former officer, how to secure a weapon.

There were obviously problems with this kid's environment, sucks that innocents had to suffer as well...

This isn't a proper article without a blame on videogames! I demand the article to be re-written in the form of videogame bashing.

In all seriousity (my personal word), that is terrible. I can't imagine what the people who know the students that are wounded or dead are feeling right now.

-Lasereth

For once i am glad that Australia has the enforced gun laws here, sorry to those who are affected by this, its a terrible thing to happen.

Look At This and tell me how "this kind of thing isn't native to the US"
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Saying and Doing are two completely different things.

*edit* Another List - http://www.disaster-management.net/school_shoot.htm

Your link also has school shootings in Scotland, Yemen, Canada, the Netherlands, Bosnia, Argentina, and Germany as well. Perhaps saying they weren't "native" to the US was a poor choice of words, maybe I should have stated that the US isn't the only country where school shootings are happening.

As for the saying and doing part, the link states that the police found gunpowder and other bomb making materials at their homes and had been practicing making them for some time. Obviously, they were prepared to back up what they were saying, but weren't able to carry it out however.

The point that I originally trying to make is that, its a larger problem in the States than anywhere else, maybe it was I who was misunderstood.

It's definately something American people are now fearing.
Is it safe to go to school in America?

It seems that the states are taking alot of precautionary measures to prevent things like these from happening. I've HEARD alot of schools in the states have security guards, cameras and metal detectors.. At My Highschool we had a Principal, actually 3.. that was it, the only thing that ever happened was a stabbing which didnt even happen at school it happened at after prom camping, and by stabbing I mean the guy was hit once, and the fight ended, no one was seriously injured. I mean, I feel safe at school, I'm not really worried about anything happening to me, Is that the same for American Students?

http://www.disaster-management.net/school_shoot.htm
"Canada, Alberta, Taber, W.R. Myers High School: first fatal High School shooting in the country in 20 years; 1 student was killed another one injured"

While it is sad and all, but this is what first came to my mind:

T-Minus 5....4...3...2..1.... Blame passed onto movies, tv, games, and music. Not the parents, school, and morals.

Wierd, I was listening to Pearl Jam - Jeremy all day long, then I read about this. This is some fucked up stuff, do they know anything about this kid's background? Like something that would have hinted that this could have happened.

Seattle Times is the Winner:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...413_kid22.html

Video games and MM?! no wonder that this kis went nuts :rolleyes:

Why is it that young males who are obviously unhappy with their lives and want to commit suicide , like to take as many people with them as they can.

Why not just put the gun to your own head and leave everyone else alone , I dont care what problems he had in his life , he had no right to drag others down with him.

Selfish.

I could start, but firearms are already banned in this country. Little wonder that there are no shootings in schools that I can recall.

I feel extremely sorry for the victims - so hopefully this thread won't become an pro / anti gun debate.

My initial impression is that this kid was affected by the loss of both of his parents and by a lonely existence in a very poor part of the US. I used to live in Minnesota and the Dakotas, and there is endemic, brutal poverty at many of the reservations there, especially the ones a long way from metro areas. I read in the paper this morning this 15 year-old's dad committed suicide, and his mother is in a nursing home 250 miles away with severe brain injuries from a car accident a few years ago. This sounds like a kid with a world of hurt just snapping.

I also read that the kid had two handguns and a shotgun, all of which are fairly common to have and see in the rural Midwest. It appears he got the guns at the home of his grandfather, who was a police officer of some kind. The kid killed the grandfather first.

I'm sure Jack Thomspon is preparing a legal brief that names GTA: San Andreas and Marylin Manson as responsible parties as we speak.

I wonder when other people are gonna learn to stop fucking with weaker people.

All other BS aside, it's kinda inevitable that it would turn out this way. You have kids that get picked on so much, someone somewhere is gonna fucking snap. Columbine took that first step in putting this idea into the minds of victims of bullying, and given the weak state of mind and utter sense of helplessness, we will be seeing a lot more of this.

It's actually the media's fault - not video games or Marilyn Manson. I don't even believe that parents are necessarily responsible for this. Each person has their own will, their own ability to make choices. If you have outside influences like bullies and other bullshit, it will affect that person in a unique way. I think it's kind of cliche to quickly blame parents instead of other kids that allow this shit to happen.

Not that something like this is GOOD but... if you're part of a group of people that constantly picks on someone and makes each and every day of their lives a living nightmare, better be prepared for a new outcome.

You've surely got to blame the gun laws?

If a kid gets pissed off with life here, there's not a lot s/he can do to harm others. In the US it seems too easy to get Dad's gun and find someone who made your life miserable.

But if you did that, it would be against the American Constitution, and you can't break the constitution.. maybe it should be amended... but if it were amended hell, probably be in a worse situation than now

Think of all the uprising... I can see it now... American Civil War II.. North vs. South All over again....

Sadly this will not be the last time something like this happens. :(

Update: Seems that there are 9 Dead now.. and I quote "Jeff Weise, the 16-year-old shootings suspect, apparently visited a neo-Nazi Web site."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/22/sch...ing/index.html

I Guess the Nazis are to blame on this one! *sarcasm*

Yeah, they were reading some of the comments he made on a Nazi forum he frequented. Most were pretty unremarkable, but they kept repeating them ad nauseum using that stupid reporter/newscaster inflection.

I guess they were just tired of doing stories about heavy metal and violent video games; itching for a reason to pull out old stock footage of Hitler.

Yep, strict gun laws sure stopped the shooter at Dunblane from getting guns and killing 17 people and wounding 10 others :rolleyes:

Compare the population of the US to a lot of other countries and you'll find that because there are so many more people here than other countries, and the country itself is larger, anything that involves people or happens ar a random geographic point is more likelt to happen here than a lot of other countries.

My opinions on gun control and gun ownership are well known, so I will not discuss that aspect of this. No matter how people die, a violent death is a tragedy, and we need to consider the reasons that one one hand, conditions that lead to violent outbursts are so often ignored, and on the other, people are illogically punished for trivial technicalities under zero-tolerance rules and these situations still arise.

This makes me sick. Just like every other school shooting. Why does your country still allow guns to be carried in public? Why are kids getting a hold of them? Why do kids even have reasons to do this kind of crap?

Where did our sanity go?

I've compared the population as a factor, it still doesnt make a difference...
Murder Rate For 2003: Canada 1.73 per 100,000 people, The United States 5.69 per 100,000... Japan and Scotland Have the lowest murder rate I might add.. at >1 per 100,000 people. So Even based on population Americans have problems with killing each other
(http://pej.org/html/modules.php?op=m...rticle&sid=720)

Japan having the 2nd Largest economy also has 127,897,918 (http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/informat...=JA&NAME=Japan) people, next to The States doesn't have a homicide problem, The States bordering neighbour to the north, also does not have the problem..

So I think population can be rule out as a problem

Left at the 2nd Amendment, with giving humans the right to bears arms... thats where I see it.

Violence and random occurences happen as they will, this sort of thing no longer shocks me at all. There will be comparisons made to Columbine, there will be an outcry for gun control again, schools will batten down once more for a while, and everyone will work their collective metaphorical panties into a twist...

and then all will settle down in about a week or two... only to be drudged up over and over for the next year.

From what I understand tougher gun laws really wouldnt have helped in this situation since the weapons included shotguns, which if I understand right are not controlled the same way....and his grandfathers POLICE revolver.

Yeah, banning guns would be pointless because then he could just stab people.

Then you'd have to ban knives.

Then he could just use a pencil. Then you'd have to ban pencils, which... would make school just about impossible unless you got everyone computers, but then you could probably just pull out a stick of RAM and slice someone's throat open on the corner... so then we'd have to develop some new type of "soft" RAM.

So, I say leave the gun laws as they are. I believe in natural selection. Things will sort themselves out eventually.

Personally, I think banning guns would be the worst approach to this situation, all it will do is create more problems

Seems a bit illogical to connect this with the gun control debate as this kid used his grandfathers service weapon.

Though now when we are talking about it, it is a bit clumsy to say that he could have stabbed those people. I don't think that many 17-year old kids can go on a stabbing rampage. Bet it is much easier with firearms.

Tragic, and scary.

Postings from the kid on a neo-nazi message board.

Livejournal of the kid...

Kind of weird, I was looking through hes post on the site with that link.. I find it really stupid that they would link this to the site... He didn't say anything related to the incidents or planning on the incidents, He said he was being blamed for a possible threat, which seemed originally he was not involved in.. maybe he was misunderstood, cause not once does he write anything about harming certain ethnicities... after reading these posts.. I believe there was no reason to relate that to his actions... sure he wants to become a nazi, thats his buisness, didn't really related to anything involving the shootings, seems like the writers just have to blame someone...
I'm not defending nazism, but I'm just saying.. you want to be an asshole, be an asshole, just don't blame it on the assholes cause you dont like them...
at this point from what I have read no specific ethnic group has been targeted, so really why bring up the site... to me its just an invasion of privacy.. please correct me if im wrong

This is terrifying and selfish and horrible.

I hope I never learn what it takes for someone to want to do this.

Oh, and your second ammendment was created in order to defend basic human rights from those who refuse to comply while your country was building itself, correct? I have a feeling that the US is stable enough now to not need guns anymore.

Must....resist.....responding....

Is this the first case of someone who commited a major criminal act being found to have left a trail of evidence on modern-style message boards and blogs? i.e., vBulliten/YaBB/etc.., as opposed to the more traditional breeding ground: Usenet and AOL chat rooms.

I can't think of another where web-based chat rooms have been referred to as widely in the media coverage.

It seems the Smoking Gun has dredged up some more stuff on the kid....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html

Now, I kind of made light of his postings on the Neo-Nazi boards, but when taking in consideration with all the stuff that has come to light....well, maybe I shouldn't have.
It doesn't excuse what he did, but it certainly puts it into context.

No, a gun is much easier to use than a knive. a knive requires physical contact, you have to thrust the blade into the victim while a gun is just a pont and klick interface. There is a "safe" distance between you and your victim.

But I also believe that gun control would not be a good solution, it would only fight the symptoms while the problem, the violence in the american society, has different reasons than just the possession of guns.

You might find this interesting... a flash animation made by Jeff before that day. Guess what it's about...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/195194

Many of these kids are stressed out or have problems. I think the school should provide counselors, and if they do, they should emphasize them on the students. I remember in my high school, counselors were supportive and helped my classmates in every single way.

I, myself, have experienced this stress in college. I have gotten to the point of insanity because of school work. These children are being treated respectfully....maybe.

Now there will be invasions of privacy. I've heard in certain towns they had breathalyzers at dances, openings of lockers, searching of bags, and suspicion on many students. Sometimes these kids want to be left alone.

btw, guns should be banned. it is terrible what is happening in the school in the US.

Whoa! Awesome... uh, are you sure that kid made that? That takes some talent... too bad he wasted it. He could've gotten a pretty decent job at being a flash developer.

According to this article in the NY times - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/na...&partner=MYWAY
[no reg required ! :thumbsup: ]

Many warning signs were there, as described in the article.

- When shootings like this happen, I feel very numb, at society as a whole. 8th Grade and Freshman year of high school, I was diagnosed with depression....[Actually I'm still on effexor, though my life perspective has changed tremendously from then, 4 years ago.] [My previous condition was never as serious as Mr. weise's was].

This kid cried for attention, albeit not directly. When you're in that troubled state, you just can't go up to a teacher or counselor and say "I NEED FUCKING HELP - I CANT TAKE THIS SHIT.." At least I couldn't do it....For whatever reason(s), I would do more subtle things: stab the notebook paper with the pen, cut classes, not do homework, or procastinate like hell with it, to the point where the teachers notice something's up...[I even shared my experiences on a depression forum online as well].

I did go to my counselor for help occasionally, though at my school there was about 300 or so students per counselor. This, along with the other responsibilities the counselor had, there were A LOT of times, I felt I had nowhere to turn to, and was pretty pissed that my school would have more people working in the finance office than have counselors.

But, not to be too tangental to this thread: I DO NOT CONDONE this kid's actions; however, I can sympathize with him, that the desperation was so much, he felt there was nothing else he could do remedy the situation and gave up.
:(


My fellow peers need to care for each other more, not just pay attention to the warning signs, but actually take action with them: talk to the person, console and offer advice, talk to an admired faculty member.

Schools and teachers: whether they acknowledge it or not, teachers have quite a bit of potential to guide a nd influence a teen's life; remember that what may seem just like 'a day or two' of troubles can appear to a
troubled kid as a lengthy dilemma.

Parents: As Captain Obvious, i'll state it - "Talk to your kids ! Have a damned good relationship with them, and do as much as you can [without spoiling the child] to understand their teenage world that they live in is probably much different than yours was...

Regards,
will.

EDIT: After reading his newgrounds profile, one of his favorite films was 'elephant' - an indie film about 2 boys in high school who were loners, picked on; went on a school shooting and then killed themselves.
[released about a year or two ago....][i rented once from the library, an ok film]

Yeah, it was a pretty good flash for his second submission.

Taken from the website:
EDIT: He also had one more flash at NG. Kinda creepy.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/199857

OK... Misunderstood... Maybe. And that sucks. But there is a difference between being misunderstood and shooting up a school. I dont care how many people make fun of you, tease you, misunderstand you, whatever--he still shot up a school, and thats unexcusable, no matter what the circumstances.

I wonder why some kids today are so inclined to go off the deep end? Is there so much more pressure on kids today?

Back in the 60's we would get rid of our pent up anger with sex, drugs, beer and rock 'n' roll. Aren't these things good enough for today's generation? Any kid who carried a gun was considered a wimp.