I'm sorry to hear about your condition - that stinketh to high heaven. I'm not arguing that there is prejudice against the overweight displayed here and elsewhere, but particularly in the post you picked out and some others like it. I wouldn't say that those posts mirror my own thoughts on my cellulited brethren and sistren - but I will say that a. I think that some of the posts deemed inflammatory are just people expressing their opinions, and a lot of opinions technically have some prejudice in them in the most general sense. Can one judge without being judgemental? (ie. I don't like smelly people. I just don't. I welcome them to be smelly, but in my opinion it's just nasty. I'd like to throw deodorant sticks at every single one of them. But I don't, because I want to be tolerated too, etc) b. I would rather internally filter out inflammatory posts that aren't directly insulting by skipping them, than have it done for me such that everything becomes some big patty-cake party. Bleecchhh!!! c. while I have no problem with fat people, I don't like the fact that people are fat. That's just me.


I found this interesting, because I can see no way for an individual such as lindsey to make this determination. It seems that we all have to project our mental processes on others in order to have any understanding of their thought processes, otherwise they remain indeterminant to us. While that is interesting, I don't see how it's useful. Incidentally, I agree with your post - I just thought it was interesting. Also, everyone knows blacks aren't thieves, it's the Puerto Ricans.

edit: Tecoyah - I just saw your post. If you or anyone else happens to be not only very smelly, but very dedicated to the smelly cause, I apologize for any offense and will happy to modify my post.

I guess it comes down to the timbre of your prejudices. As I outlined before, I tend to view everyone I meet with equal amounts of suspicion, hence my 'asshole stereotype' (no, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, here or otherwise). It's not based on appearance or any other outward indication, it's based on the fact that the majority of people that pass through my life seem to be assholes, in the main. Fat, thin, black, white, short, tall, you're either an asshole or you aren't. I think I've seen that on someone's sig here...

oh yeah flamingdog - i forgot to post my agreement that i like fun advice that comes Trojan Horse style. If someone wants to give me tips on changing, that's fine. And if they express concern for me, that's fine - it's actually changed my life before. If they try to justify looking down on me by making it sound like they just want to give me some old-fashioned tough love...well, I get a little skeptical. Then again, I'm sort of an asshole that trusts virtually no one to start with, but there you go.

Ha ha, sounds like we met back around the other side.

To me, a lot of the 'fat people need to lose weight' rhetoric that flies around - here in its more subtle form, and elsewhere more overtly - smacks of this 'tough love' attitude. That really pisses me off, because it's cut from the same cloth as just being called a fat-ass. It's like the ol' horseshoe in the boxing glove. Sting in the tail.

'If you lose weight, you'll be happier, have more confidence, feel better about yourself,' implying that I should be a miserable, self-loathing wallflower just because I carry a couple of extra pounds. That's prejudice.

edit- this is in regard to the "some people don't have stereotypes" post. i guess i'm just a slow typer.

I think the point was that unless you are blind (and even then I have my doubts), you would stereotype someone based on certain physical characteristics. The stereotype made and the weight placed on that stereotype changes from person to person, but it's still there. It's just an Ingroup vs. Outgroup thing.

If Some guy/girl shares physical characteristics with you- hair colour, weight, skin color, style of dress, etc., you will make that connection and place them in your ingroup. If someone differs greatly from you, you're more likely to put them into an outgroup. You now have 2 catagories based on physical characteristics. It didn't even have to be physical differences that lead you to create these catagories. They've done studies where they randomly gave half the sample golf balls. They separated the sample and gave them a small test- at the end of which was a question asking if those with golf balls did better or if those without golf balls did better on the test. 80% of the respondants, with no other reason than whether or not they were holding a golf ball, chose in favor of their "group". (Control was 50%)

These people made a choice that those alike to themselves were more intelligent than those less alike to themselves. Over a golf ball. It's easy to see that we will pick up stereotypes over the course of our lives based on consistent physical differences- fat people are inactive(but if you are fat, skinny people are undependable, or _______), a person of any other color than your own puts less emphasis on family. These are dumb stereotypes. But they exist. You live in our society, and you're exposed to stereotypes everyday. You are barraged with them through mass media, interactions with your peers, lessons by your teachers. Just because you don't think of a stereotype consciously when you see it doesn't mean you aren't affected by it.

well sort of - my position on this is pretty much : 1. I hate the fact that someone's feeling got hurt. 2. I don't really think being severely overweight is the best idea for a lifestyle choice 3. I welcome people to discriminate on the basis of weight when it comes to personal / romantic relationships - I'm just guessing they'll miss out on some interesting people (the contrapositive is also intersting - implication that all skinny people would be hardworking healthy go-getters, etc) 4. I would encourage overweight people to get in shape, based on my personal experiences, but if someone chooses not too, fine by me for reasons previously stated. Enter pack of wild hyenas, etc.

yeah, i think it's a quesiton of degree - because i don't think in the purest form it can be completely avoided. with weight issues, i don't think there's much wiggle room on association with diseases like cardio-pulmonary disease, type ii diabetes, etc. that's just the facts. every time someone gives you advice / makes suggestion, i think there's technically some prejudice in there. to me, it's all about levels of prejudice. i expect and appreciate some of it - shows me you're thinking and you care. too much, and you're an asshole on a scale that makes even my little pigglet self pale, and that's a bad thing.

If I re-phrased this as "You might find that if you lose weight you might be happier, have more confidence, feel better about yourself.." would you still have the problem? I know too many +lbs people who are crazy-go-nuts gregarious and confident to think that the two are directly coorelated all the time. One of the best soccer players I've ever known was a big guy - especially for a serious athlete - (and he was the exception, not the rule) but I would watch him eat people for lunch day in and out on the field. People always this look like "How in the fuck did that lard-ass just do that?" and it was the funniest thing ever. However, I've also known a bunch of heavy people, and eventually a lot of them will admit they wish they were a little thinner, so there's usually some truth to the "you might have more confidence" thing.

skier

I'm avoiding getting into that aspect of this, pretty much - but I will simply say I agree with your points concerning human reliance on stereotypes to make decisions in their lives. It's just what we do. You may not share the same stereotypes as everyone else, and some tend to pop up for pretty much everone - but I don't see anyway to deny that as soon as you see something / someone new, you compare them to everything / everyone you've already known to see where they fit to help you predict their probable behavior and values. We tend to group our experiences involving people by common characteristics, and these become stereotypes. I don't cross the street when I see black kids coming my way, but if the kids - regardless of color - look like they're overly macho little punks and I don't have my Crocodile Dundee knife handy, I'll cross to be on the safe side. They could be absolute sweethearts, and I'm sorry if I hurt their feelings, but they dress a certain way, I react a certain way, and no one is really hurt. If that's wrong, then tough shittola, I guess.

Pigglet - Tricky to answer whether it would bother me to have the question rephrased. It would depend on who was delivering it. For it to be a prejudiced comment, it by necessity has to come from somebody who knows nothing about me, in which case, it's horrifically inappropriate. If it's coming from my mother, who (for argument's sake) might have witnessed behaviour on my part suggesting a low self-esteem, then there might be some justification for that comment.

Thing is, when it comes to heavier people 'admitting' they want to lose weight, I have to question the reasons for that. If you want to be thinner for any other reason than to satisfy yourself (and not satisfy yourself that society is no longer laughing at you behind your back), then you're probably not in it for the right one.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense... you can't admit to having less confidence as the result of obesity without it at least in part becoming true, and the more you hear it, the truer it becomes... IMHO, anyway.

skier - We agree on that, I never said I didn't have stereotypes, I'm aware of them and I admit to them, just like you did. Thing is, you admitted to having a stereotype based on physical appearance, I have a stereotype based on being an asshole. It's just different points of view.

Agreed and agreed again - I would say that if someone's viewpoint sparks you thinking about something, but if in the end you're not doing it for yourself you're doing it for the wrong reasons.


re: skier and the physical appearance stereotypes, while I find your position to believe, fd (yes, i'm quite lazy sometimes) i won't argue it. i know i personally make judgements based on stereotypes all the time, i just try not to be judgemental about it. what i mean is that i will avoid people with violent body language on the street, people with mullets / rat-tails, people with a lot of baggy shit hanging off them (especially if it's dirty - and not contractor / construction worker dirty, but I don't wash my clothes dirty) if I can, because I don't want to mess with them. Not necessarily because they're bad people, I just usually don't feel like taking the time to find out. by the same token, if i end up in an elevator with someone whom I might avoid, I don't freak out or treat them with a lack of respect. I just prefer to avoid potentially interesting situations before they happen if I can. maybe others work differently.

sorry, I was just really pissed by your comment that you don't use visual stereotypes, when I've seen quite a number of psych studies (I'm a psych major) that prove differently.
And of course that asshole things was annoying as well, and only made you seem a little bitter, and bitchy.

Oh, and I still haven't really seen any evidence to support this idea of a weight prejudice on TFP. I've heard of two posts, out of the thousands (millions?) of posts on here...

I have gone out of my way to "Search" for the reported Weight Prejudice in these boards....and to be honest, after about three hours of the hunt, I have really only found it in this thread.
If indeed the thread starter wishes to eliminate this problem....just tell me and I will delete this entire thread. Thus removing the bulk of the bias instantly.

I'm sorry, I just have to answer this. To my knowledge, I've not been included in any psych studies. Ever. The ones you have seen do not prove anything about me.

Nor do they remove the fact that your original post about me was pure assumption, built on assumption, built on assumption. I have more opinions on psychology itself, but I think I'll save those for another thread.

Hey, it works for me. I apply it across the board, and hey presto, my life is asshole-free! :thumbsup:

I appologize, I've been in Florida for the past week on the first vacation we've been on in the last 6 years, therefore my lack of responses.

Yes, I realize it sounds like I'm "defending" myself. I'm not. The explaination I gave stands, what I said is what I meant. In hindsight, my post seems simplistic and lends itself to scrutinism. Fine, scrutinize if you must.

This tread has gone way farther than I thought it would. Alot of opinions have come my way, from what I eat, don't eat, excercise, don't excercise, etc. Everyone has an opinion when it comes to someone who's "fat". I am not trying to change the world. I was just hoping to help the members of the TFP who aren't, conscious of the frivolous use of "fat" in posts.

Here is an example of a post that while not directed towards anyone here is what I'm talking about...

I thought I had stated in an earlier post that I hadn't seen, nor was refering to, any overt comments from one member to another, just comments like the one above.

I am not emotionally scarred or overly sensitive. I find it curious that so many have labeled me as such or questioned whether I am. As I've said, people are not going to find fat attractive over-night, understandable. Really, there's nothing more I can say that I haven't already. I'll just "buck up little beaver" and let anything I find offensive roll off my back as some have suggested.

Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!

Ali

If you even remotely think that saying something along the lines of "the driver is the fat ass lady"- and I can only assume the original post had not capitalized the word FAT- then you are as hypersensitive as they come. It's a physical description meant to give an impression of the size/shape/whatever of the subject. If the poster went on to say something like, "I think she had a twinkie stockpile in the back", "I wonder how she fits through the door", "she was so fat that I thought her car had been lowered, but when she got out it sprang back up to normal height", then you'd at least be heading in the general direction of some sort of weight "issue".

You're making a mountain of fat out of nonfat molehills.

The good people of these boards have been fighting over this topic (while many were decidedly off-topic) a while in your stead, and the overwhelming findings are that there is no such weight prejudice found- even by individuals, let alone pervasive or widespread prejudice.

I'm curious how much longer this thread will last.

Actually, the capitalisation was not added by Alicat. Curious about that myself, I checked it last night.

Mods: If this thread is deemed out of control, then by all means please delete it.

This is the last post I will make in this thread because I don't have enough time to deal with all the morphing away from my original post that has happened here (I'm in the process of moving). I wrote personal info about myself in my first post trying to make a point about alot of peoples preconceived notions of those of us that are "fat". Opening myself up was not the right way to go as I have been ripped on over practically everything I said, as well as what I didn't say.

Tecoyah searched for over three hours and didn't find anything, therefore I posted the quote I did because it was the most readily available reference I could find, not neceassarily the most blatant.

As Flamingdog said, I did not capitolize "fat", that is the way it was written and quoted.

I understand what you mean but still question whether anyone cares about fat comments verses, say, "the driver is the gimp ass lady", or "the driver is the deaf ass lady", or "the driver is the retarded ass lady". None of those classifications would be tolerated, yet "fat" is. That was my sole point. Why would any extrainious comments like "I think she had a twinkie stockpile in the back" lessen (or compound) the intent of the original comment?

I love the TFP and have contributed what little piddly amount I could to it and will continue to do so. I am however a bit upset that two moderators have said how they haven't seen what I'm talking about. Because they haven't read or noticed it doesn't mean it isin't there. Again for the (I think) third time, I never said there was blatant prejudice, and I am not overtly sensitive. For the majority of people who have posted in this thread, there have been a handfull that agree with me that there are "fatist" posts out there.

Whether they're the only ones who have noticed it or the only ones to read this thread and willing to come forth about their perceptions, I don't know. Frankly, I am normally a non-confrontational person and I did not expect this thread to go the way it has. I thought this topic would have an impact, but not so vehemently from people whom don't have a weight problem and therefore aren't really affected by the "prejudice" I was referring to. At best I was hoping it might open their eyes to what other people deal with. Prejudice was probably not the best choice of words on my part, although I can't think of any other word to convey the same meaning that wouldn't also be jumped on.

I don't know how much clearer I can be-I am not referring to blatant attacks on any members, just the casual comments that might not mean anything to someone who doesn't have a weight problem but non-the-less may be hurtful to those of us that do.

Ali

Why would these not be tolerated?

"I was driving down the road and this retarded ass lady pulled out in front of me like a bat out of hell"... oh, because she probably WASN'T actually retarded? *boggle*

I think tolerance is based a lot on individuals... I don't get offended much by people. I think this all comes full circle to Ali's first post and my first comment about it... words are only as offensive as you let them be!

Yeah, I searched for a while as well. We ain't found shit. (yay for spaceballs reference)

Well, then I sit corrected- since you didn't bother to link to your source, I had no idea.

As I said, it was a physical description. The poster didn't hang on it, go on about it, keep digging- there was a comment and immediate movement onward. Going on about the fatness WOULD constitute a different intention entirely. Also, the other descriptions you listed: gimp, deaf, retarded, would likely have ALSO been regarded as simple observations, unless (as I said) there were extra comments made to indicate different (bad) intent.

Cool- done and done.