the_marq

There was thread over in Tilted Sexuality this morning wherein a guy asked about the feelings people have about inter-racial couples. Pretty much everyone, myself included, were pretty hard on the guy. Basically he wasn't saying is was wrong, but it just FELT wrong.

This got me thinking about my own racial attitudes. I would never class myself as a racist, but I think that some other people would, let me tell you a little about me.

I was raised in a small (pure white) town in Saskatchewan (its in Canada ), and most of my major influences when growning up were a little intollerant. I'm not saying they were cross-burning red necks, but I was constantly exposed to the more passive forms of racisim. Y'know, things like innocuous statments like:

"sit at the table and eat like a whiteman"
"they were charging $200 but I jewed 'em down to $175"

Just to illustrate a few examples. I could go on and on, but maybe more on that later. All of this lead to me having slightly prejudiced views on other races be they black, native, jewish asian...whatever. Now to repeat myself, none of this was "overtly racist" just vauge (probably intended to be funny) put downs.

In time I grew up and left that small backward town in Saskatchewan and was exposed to the outside world. Where I met and got to know people where were black, asian... etc etc. Suddenly when I went home to visit my friends and family their attitudes and comments about other races seemed glarringly bigotted to me. IE: because I was living in Banff at the time my friends would ask me about "all the Japs."

Anyway to make a long story slightly shorter, I eventually grew out of my passive racisim and today it's not much of an issue to me. I was in a meeting yesterday at work and I realized I'm the only white guy in my department,and that's fine with me. Where as the 1991 version of me would have been very uncomfortable.

So what's my point?

To be honest I have kinda lost my way here in my rambling. I guess if anything it's that I (like the guy in the sexuality forum) have similar feelings towards certain racial situations. For example if I get cut off in traffic by a Sikh cab driver I might instictivly think: "stupid turban should learn to drive."

I then instantly admonish myself for racial profiling. By the same token however, when I get cut off in traffic by a white guy in an over-sized pickup truck I instinctivly think, "fuckin' moron redneck should go back to Saskatchewan."

So I submit to you my fellow TFP'ers. Are we all closet racists or am I the only one who still compartamentalizes people based on their race?

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#3 in a series

skinnymofo

i think its the attitude of society today.
with so many people trying to be overly PC, theres a lot of people who are doing the opposite.
i am of the personal belief right now that if we ignore it, it will go away because no one will pay attention to the racists anymore.
for example, you ever notice how often a homosexual will present themselves to make EVERYONE aware that they are in fact gay?
if they stopped doing that no one would care or pay attention and then *I think* homosexuals wouldnt get so harassed.
Now i realize that above statement is entirely (damn it i cant think of the word) eh. profiling is close enough
i too am like you marq in the snap decisions.

edit- for the record i have no problem with interracial couples, infact i almost prefer other races than white in the womens looks department

warrrreagl

In terms of "knee-jerk racial reactions," I'm not even allowed to answer. Since I live in Alabama, most people (intentional or not) already have a pre-conceived notion of what my racial views must be, and anything I say will be skewed towards that direction by the less-enlightened members. Trust me, this is years of experience talking here.

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ShaniFaye

Same here warrreagl.....born and bred southern people are usually going to be thought of as racists.


I admit to making comments when Im pissed off that include the race of someone, whether they be black, white, hispanic, asian...etc

I was brought up with a mother that thought like this "Black people are great, everybody should own one", it was the way she was raised and the way her parents were raised....fortunately Im enuff of my own person to get out of that way of thinking.

I, myself do not subscribe to that thought....I have friends of all different races and nationalities. I admit that if a person of another race asks me out, the first thought in my head is "oh man, my daddy would kill me", but it doesnt stop me if I find the PERSON to be someone Im interested in hanging around....

but yes, when I cant get in the door (or parking lot) at the local Quick Trip (chain gas station for those not in the atlanta area lol) in the mornings for all the mexicans inside and waiting on rides in the parking lot....I do mutter things about the fucking illegals going home.

But....I dont have a problem with interracial dating

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Cynthetiq

I like the song from Avenue Q. Their take on it is quite honest and realistic. We are all a little bit racsist, but that doesn't mean I'm walking about spouting epitaphs and racial slurs...

From the Avenue Q Musical on Broadway...

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warrrreagl

A couple of days ago, I had already typed out a post in the American Idol thread concerning a possible racial bias where Randy Jackson's post-performance comments were concerned. However, my little internal "racial editor" scanned the post and made me delete the whole thing. I could just hear the sneers coming from across the Internet if anybody had read that post: "Fucking redneck cross-burning sheet-wearing Alabama hick. OF COURSE you think Randy Jackson is racially biased, you George Wallace-worshipping moron."

An awful lot of my posts end up that way. Even in a place as open as TFP, I still have to censor myself and my opinions, because the world is just not ready to accept an unbiased racial point of view coming from an Alabamian.


Me, either. I've always thought that the children from such unions were unbelievably pretty.

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frogza

I don't have an issue with race but I am guilty of grouping people by their attire. I find myself thinking, "stupid gangbanger", "trailer trash" or "redneck" just by the way they are dressed. Of course I have good justifications for doing so, like "Hey, they're wearing the uniform, they most be a member of the club" I realize that even "well justified" grouping isn't fair or very smart so I try and avoid it, but that is my struggle. It's a hard habit to shake.

tres

Well First, I'm glad that even as seemingly pointless my thread was, it got you thinking and you posted a thread with a point! I subscribe to a similar belief as you and while I may scream a slur at the cabbie, its not i'm racist, just when people act in a manner that confirms a stereotype it just makes sense.....

further... I think it's funny that everyone (including myself) must state ""I'm not racist but......."" before a comment. thats kinda intresting.

warrrreagl

I am of the opinion (and I try to teach this to my music classes) that MOST ALL dislike of a certain type of music is not related to the music at all, but is actually related to the assumptions made about the people who typically listen to that type of music.

In other words, if you find yourself hating country music, then it's probably because you dislike the types of people you associate with country music. Rap music seems to work the same way.

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Bill O'Rights

I dunno...maybe. I can kind of see that with rap music...but, damn...country music just twangs and whines me to the utter brink of insanity. That is the music.

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Redlemon

I'm sitting over here with my jaw on the floor, and my head spinning. I have to go somewhere and think about that one for a while. I wasn't planning on reassessing my core beliefs today, but...

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Mojo_PeiPei

I can admit I am a closet racist. It's pretty funny actually, I live in Minnesota a more liberal state in the union, my best friend since the age of 4 is black, and most of my high school friends are latino's from North MPLS (that's more or less our ghetto).

I think every white person is sort of raised to fear minorities, mostly black people, I know walking around the down town areas I get uneasy when a group of young black men approach, that's ironic too half of my school was black (albeit Catholic/private). Even though my positive experiences with black people far outweigh the few bad instances, I'm still bound to an uneasyness; that probably just due to the fact that I grew up in straight wonder bread.

Also I drop an abhorrent amount of N-bombs, I blame Chappel's show along with Clayton Bigsby for that though. On the issue of music sometimes I can't help myself when I hear some straight whack gangsta shit, I have often outloud said things like "Man this guy is a nig". Maybe I can work on this for lent.

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tres

I think the only black people that deserve to be called the N- word are those that act as such. There is a differnce between a black man and an N- (God I hate that word)

Mojo_PeiPei

Well I try in be universal in my abhorrance, black and white alike. Your last sentence sorta reminds me of Chris Rock's "Whose more racist: Black people or White people" monologue.

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warrrreagl

Well, if I may come back to reality again, you and Bill have expressed my thoughts much better than I did. What I WISH I had typed is that I challenge my students to examine whether or not their dislike for a certain type of music is not related to their dislike of the people they associate with that music.

I challenge them to try and make sure that is not the case. Obviously, all of us (including me) dislike certain types of music, and some of us are able to base our dislikes on the music and not the people.

Apologies all the way around.

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Redlemon

Apologies not accepted; I read what you intended, and there was no sarcasm in my post. I'm thinking about the categories of music that I dislike, and comparing them to my viewpoints concerning the type of people who listen to that kind of music, and I'm trying to figure out which is the chicken and which is the egg. Or if that egg came from that chicken. Still thinking...

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theusername

I don't tell people I'm Jewish. I get treated differently and constantly badgered when I conduct anything dealing with money. Or I get the oven jokes, or someone screams heil hitler in my face to see my reaction. I've just had enough of that.

A realization I've also come to is that I use to fear black people. I knew I did and I hated that I did, but I guess society and the 5 o clock news pushes that on you. Since coming to college and playing basketball every day with a large amount of blacks, making friends, and just trusting people of other races I no longer make any distinction by skin color.

And as far as interracial dating, I've never had a problem with it at all, but before maybe a year ago I don't think I personally would have been open to it as I am now.

Just my thoughts

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StanT

I'm not sure I'll buy that. I like hot guitars. Jazz, blues, rock, white guy, black, it really doesn't matter. Keyboards, vocals, etc just don't do it for me. Not sure I can find a bias in my preference.

I'm pretty anti-social in general. I can always find a reason to dislike someone without resorting to race.

paulskinback

I think what happened is you grew up. I was brought up thinking my family were racist - Grandpa talking about coons and wogs, it was "funny" to crack racist jokes to your friends (which still are funny but most just bigotry). Growing up you start to meet different people, not just in your sheltered family & school environment you were used to, and you open your eyes.... true racist bigots are morons. They generally are the scum of society already without their added racism.

Have to admit though, through my upbringing I can expell some of the worst racist slurs in certain situations (driving a car). Having said that I also do it to the elderly (old bastard/wanker/twat etc), women (bitch/slag/whore) so i'm pretty obscene in general to everyone when i drive.

Maybe i have road rage.

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flstf

We need to make contact with some non-earth species and then we will realize how much alike all us earthlings are. Then we can all discriminate against those smug Alpha Centaurians.

Psycho Dad

I spent a couple of days in Dothan a few years back. Due to flight schedules and no more than I had to do, I had some time to spend in a few stores, malls, restaurants and such. I found everyone to be friendly and polite regardless of their skin color, not what most stereotypes people may believe. My next stop was farther north on Long Island. I walked into the shop that I was going to be working in that day and my guide told me a racist joke before he even introduced himself. Dumbasses are going to pop up anywhere and there is no geographic basis that is going to make you know when to expect one to show themself.

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ratbastid

I don't know about that. As a come-down Yankee, I'm not sure it's always that simple.

I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah. There's a great line in the film Six Degrees of Separation: "We're from Salt Lake City. There are like two black people in Salt Lake City." "Oh, yeah! I think I saw them one time! Two black people!" Literally, in the high school I went to, there was one black guy, a couple asians, and a whole bunch of middle class white kids. No latinos. It's not like I grew up in a racist environment, race just wasn't something I dealt with.

Then, I went to college in rural Minnesota. It was slightly more diverse, but not much. On my 3000-student campus, there was a small handful of black people, and they mostly hung together. I mean, wouldn't you? A few more asians, a few latinos.

When I moved to North Carolina it was MAJOR wake-up call about diversity and how the real world is. When I got my first job in NC, my manager was a big, powerful, amazing black woman--my first experience with such a creature. Suddenly living somewhere with some diversity, I had to really examine my automatic opinions and judgements about race. I had to deal with the issue that while I knew intellectually everything I needed to know about equality and racial sensitivity, I had zero on-the-court experience with it, and I certainly wasn't comfortable with it.

Even these days I have to deal with my racist tendencies. I catch myself looking at certain groups of people in certain ways, and I have to consciously pull myself back. What I find is that when I try to pretend I'm not racist, I have no ability to pull myself back. My automatic way of seeing people is just the TRUTH, and I've got no ability to shift my view in the moment. I have to stay responsible for my racism, keep owning my inner racist.

Suave

I don't normally think in racial terms, unless it's actually pertinent to a conversation or something (eg. describing how someone looks). I do enjoy racial stereotype jokes of all kinds though, which some might decide to brand me racist for, although the main reason I like them is because they are "taboo" more than anything else.

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JumpinJesus

I got into a huge fight with my best friend and his wife one night about a topic like this.

We had watched "Get on the Bus", a movie about a busload of people heading to the Million Man March, in case you didn't know.

The movie dealt with how everyone has some prejudices within them. After the film, we were talking about it. I made the comment that everyone has prejudices. My friend and his wife blew up at me. They were adamant of the fact that they had absolutely no prejudices within them. They were offended that I would make such an accusation because they had spent years trying to eradicate such thinking from their minds. They became so hurt that I could suggest that even they held some prejudices that they left and we didn't speak for about a week.

Some months later, our relationship was a bit shaky because we didn't resolve that issue. It got resolved for us one day when we were at a stop sign and a large 4WD pickup pulled up beside us with a rebel flag sticker in the window. My friend commented, "fuckin' hillbilly rednecks."

"Aha!" I yelled out. "How do you know they're hillbilly rednecks?"
"Look at their truck!" he responded.
"That!...is prejudiced," I replied.
He thought for a moment, then said, "I guess you're right."
"Fuckin' hicks." I responded.

We all carry with us some form of preconceived notions of other groups of people. It doesn't make us evil to have those notions; it makes us human. It's how we decide to act that makes us what we are.

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guthmund

That...was very well said.

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MSD

Among my friends, race is nothing but a joke. We're all a bunch of college kids, and we refuse to take it seriously. We're all just people and it works well to see things that way.

nofnway

You all have some interesting points about knee jerk reactions...internal editing etc.. so many of those ideas and problems have hit a chord in me over the years and I have found myself thinking deeply about this topic over the years....In my quiet place I can admit to myself that I don't always feel totally secure in myself..and to make myself feel better I pick out the flaws in others (which I know is really a flaw in me) The more obvious the difference between me and the target of my scorn, for lack of a better word right now, the lazier I am about self editing. Although race is a highly sensitive subject it is not the only area where I catch myself doing this. I'm tall, I am a good driver, My nose is not overly large, I have all of my teeth ,so on and so forth. I guess, most of that behavior happens when I'm not really thinking, rather just being thoughtless. To demean someone else on the basis of their differences wants to relieve us from the responsibility of understanding them and relating to them and really seeing how like us they really are. Just my 2 cents

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Lockjaw

Being a product of my environment I grew up being about as none racist as you can be. From kindergarten to like 9th grade my best friend was white. Hung with many latinos and was always friends with the one or two Asian kids in school. I generally don't see things and people in terms of their race. I mean I recognize the difference and what ever but I don't really find myself making a judgement on their abilities as a person based on race even in passing even when angered. If a person cuts me off in traffic I call them asshole or bitch appropriately based on gender.

But what really shocked me though is in a family that raised me not to be racist how racist my parents are towards Mexican people. My mom is always saying little things here and there about how "They" let their kids run wild in the stores or whatever. I call her on it and tell her that's what white people say about us as black people. She then tries to explain it away but she displays some of the same racist tendencies that she always told us were wrong. And my dad.

He's a mean person anyway but he likes to "jokingly" talk bad about people and he says he means nothing by it(I mean he calls me and my sister all kinds of stuff in jest,at least we think)but he will lay into Mexican people like crazy sometimes and it brings looks of shock and disgust to my and my sister's faces. It really is sad that these two upstanding black people who were direct products of the racial revolution in Ameria(hell my mom grew up in Birmingham in the 50s)hold some of the same racists view points and seem to be perfectly fine with them.

But I suppose it is still progress though since they did raise two kids who don't work in the realm of color like they and their contemporaries do and hopefully my kids(who might be bi-racial)will live in an even more enlightened and color blind world. So if you guys that do have that little tinge of racism in them just make sure you teach your kids in the way you WISH you were and try to refrain from telling those little subtle racial "jokes" around your kids.

But I do agree that everybody is prejudice against some group. I have a disturbing amount of venom stored up for old people especially when they are driving.

squirrelyburt

I think a lot of people of all races have pre-conceived notions of other races, just something different we may have limited knowlege of, maybe been fed a line of BS like I was... and now have to learn for ourselves. I have seen, recently, very overt and visible racism. I gotta admit, I was really taken back and suprised that thinking still exists in this country!!

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Averett

That's exactly what I think, but you've said it better

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d*d

steroetyping does not equal racism, in todays PC climate our stereotypes are constantly being attacked and we are made to feel guilty for having them, I'm not racist (every body says that - especially the racists) but i do carry stereotypes around with me which have been created by society and the media - it's a categorizing system our brains use to distinguish between people. We can't help it but should be aware of it.

Rlyss

I'm glad so many people have been able to admit that they actually see color. All the time I hear people claim 'I don't see color, I don't know if I have any black or Asian friends because I don't even notice!' Bloody hell, I know what skin color my friends have, I'm not ashamed that I recognize it, and I'm not ashamed of the fact that when I see someone I'll notice their skin color. I notice people with blonde hair, I notice people wearing bright red sneakers and with Che Guevara t-shirts, why should I be ashamed to notice their ethnicity too?

And I'm not going to add 'And I have many [other ethnicity] friends' to this.

Bill O'Rights

For real? I mean...that's just...I dunno. Pathetic? Personaly, I'd have little patience for that type of deluded stupidity. Of course I can see that someone is black, white, asian, hispanic, or what have you. If you don't, then you've got other issues, and should probably seek medical attention. It's only when these differences effect how you react to any given individual, that it becomes racism.

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"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

warrrreagl

That's just sad and pathetic. Thank God I'm able to at least hear the differences between races, or else jazz music would be unbearably dull.

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Rlyss

Exactly, Bill. Like others have mentioned it seems to be political correctness gone mad. I do think though that this hyper-correctness (I just made that up) is dwindling though and people are coming to their senses. I don't think PC was a 'thing' of the 90s, since it's certainly around now, but I hope, and from this thread I see, that lots of people are just acknowledging skin color, like anything else, and not making a deal out of it. That's the best way to be.

Lasereth

There's a few different definitions of being prejudice and being a racist and being a stereotyper. When defining prejudice, there's two definitions: those who have preconceived notions about a certain group of people, or those who treat the aforementioned group differently due to their characteristics.

If you consider being prejudice having a preconveived notion about a group of people, then of course everyone is prejudice. When I see a woman driving a 1989 Camaro with sweatpants on, I think she lives in a trailer. What's wrong with that? Is there something wrong with my assumption? Am I going to treat the woman differently because of my thoughts? No. I'm simply making the observation that based on past experiences, people who drive Camaros and wear sweatpants to the grocery store generally live in trailers. There is nothing wrong with this theory. No harm is being done to the woman and I would treat her no differently than anyone else.

Now, if I were to walk up to her and say, "Get a better car and wear some blue jeans Ms. Whitetrash." That would be prejudice.

Another misconception is racism. OBSERVING THAT A PERSON IS BLACK, WHITE, OR ASIAN IS NOT RACISM. If I say that a black guy did this or that, it's simply using a VERY useful description of the person to relate how he looks. If I say that a bunch of black people are at the theater, that's not racist -- it's a simple observation. Many people believe that calling a group of people "black" is racist because "everyone is the same no matter your skin color." Wrong. We're all different. I'm glad we have different skin colors...it makes it easier to identify and describe people.

On to the topic of stereotypes: stereotyping is an advanced, unconscious form of being prepared for the "future." If I stereotype the black people in the theaters in my hometown by saying that they're probably going to be loud, it's simply saying that I've observed black people being loud a majority of the time in theaters. Stereotyping? Yes. Wrong? I don't think so. Like I said, it's simply a method of guessing the outcome of an event based on previous observations. There is no harm done until I TREAT these people differently without experiencing the said actions.

One poster mentioned that in the past 15 years, the entire world has been obsessed with being politically correct. I agree. Being politically correct is pure, censored stupidity. I'm a white guy. There are black people, asian people, Canadians that say crick instead of creek, and hispanics that work for nothing in this world. Nothing changes this. One thing is for certain: pretending like there isn't a difference between race and skin color will only make it worse. Censoring what we say and do because we're afraid of offending someone's skin is even more abysmal...get over the dire fear of someone else thinking you're a racist and say what you feel. The only people in this world right now that have a racism or prejudice issue is those who truly don't like someone because of their skin color or race. Those people need help and are beyond this conversation.

-Lasereth

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ShaniFaye

I drive a camaro and wear sweatpants to the grocery store...and I own a home thats not modular or on wheels

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flstf

You would be surprised at the number of doctors and lawyers I run into at Harley rallys that look like outlaw bikers.

Just kidding, you make some good points.

World's King

Okay.

I was having this conversation the other day with a black guy and he agreed with me. And I'm starting to find other that do aswell.


There is a huge difference between a black person and a nigger. Just as there is a difference between a white person and a cracker/honky. Chinese - Chinc. Mexican - Spic. Gay - Faggot. Lesbian - Dyke... Or whatever other slur you can think of for anyone. Italian - WOP. Irish - Mic. Scottish - Mac. Okay I'm done.

The one that's associated with the slur is more than likely the extreme of the two. Does that make sense to anyone?

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Lockjaw

It makes sense but the usage of such slurs even if you think it appropriately applies just isn't the wisest thing to do.