Menstrual Leave? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ella · 02-12-2005, 06:32 AM

I was interested to hear unions in Australia are pushing for women workers at Toyota with menstrual pain be granted access to an extra 12 paid days off a year. God knows I'd love to stay home on that first day of my period when the only thing on my mind is when I took the last Nurofen, and I'm sure many women feel the same.

So what sort of precedent does this set? I'm not sure if this has been negotiated in other countries, but if successful could create quite the ripple effect.

Linky bit

maleficent · 02-12-2005, 06:39 AM

I would think it would set a bad precedent, in that do men get equal time off for -- ohh - -blue balls day?

All kidding aside...

Wouldn't this make a company NOT want to hire women if they knew they would have to compensate these women for 12 additional paid days off per year.

StanT · 02-12-2005, 06:42 AM

I'm not sure you could give time off to women without doing the same for men. You are already free to use sick days or vacation if you wish. Setting up the genders as unequal in the workplace would be a bad precedent.

maleficent · 02-12-2005, 06:50 AM

from the article:

Quote:

Business is concerned that if the Toyota claim is successful, menstrual leave provisions would flow...

For some reason -- I thought that was very funny... (Sometimes, I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy

CSflim · 02-12-2005, 07:07 AM

Another kick in the crotch for any ideal of "equality".

Blackthorn · 02-12-2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

from the article:

For some reason -- I thought that was very funny... (Sometimes, I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy

That is funny...and I at the ripe young age of forty I appreciate the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy. You know the author put that in there with that intent...

flstf · 02-12-2005, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Wouldn't this make a company NOT want to hire women if they knew they would have to compensate these women for 12 additional paid days off per year.

If this is a real problem that 50% of the workforce has (my wife disagrees) probably the best approach is to just give everyone an additional 12 days off for whatever.

warrrreagl · 02-12-2005, 07:12 AM

Speaking as a man who works with women, I have NOOOO problem with this at all.

maleficent · 02-12-2005, 07:25 AM

It would also be interesting to know whether they would require the women to under go physical exams to see if they actually do have a medical condition that causes the painful periods. Dysmenorrhea is the condition that causes painful periods without an underlying medical condition, other painful periods can be caused by endometriosis, fibroids, and pelvic inflammatory disease, all which can be diagnosed by a doctor.

In most instances, these conditions can be treated, so would they force women to get treatment?

Ella · 02-12-2005, 07:32 AM

Good point. I suspect the civil libertarians would be up in arms, but it's an interesting thought.

tecoyah · 02-12-2005, 07:42 AM

I used to give my Male employees, One SRH day a month....to compensate for the paid PMS sick time my female employees took. Didnt tell the staff what SRH stood for, until about six months later.....got quite a chuckle from everyone when I finally did.

I wonder if you all can guess what it means?

Ratman · 02-12-2005, 07:49 AM

In Japan women get paid days off for their periods, men don't get (or want) any equivelent time. It's actually called "Flag Day" (think of the Japanese flag).

Dostoevsky · 02-12-2005, 08:53 AM

12 extra paid days per year, per female employee would add up quickly for an employer. If I were hiring, I would be less inclined to choose a woman for a position where I could pick a man considering the extra cost involved.

Tecoyah, I'm stumped, do tell....

Livia Regina · 02-12-2005, 09:35 AM

I think that is a stupid idea. It will cost employers more to employ women and since there are discrimination laws everywhere preventing employers from not hiring women, they will hire fewer men too so that they can offset the cost of hiring women. And unemployment rates will go up.
If a woman has cramps so painful that she is prevented from working, she needs to go to her doctor to fix the problem.

maleficent · 02-12-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman

In Japan women get paid days off for their periods, men don't get (or want) any equivelent time. It's actually called "Flag Day" (think of the Japanese flag).

That might make for interesting rumors in the office... Susie worker took off for her period every month... then one month... she doesn't take a day off... Hmmm is Susie pregnant? She's not married... oh the scandal... Everyone can wonder right along with Susie why her period is late...

Now, I can see the plus side to this, that if a person is in pain, or not feeling well, they are not going to be productive. So, isn't a more liberal sick leave policy more beneficial to all employees, it's just trying to figure out how to eliminate abuse of it that would be the problem

Sweetpea · 02-12-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

That might make for interesting rumors in the office... Susie worker took off for her period every month... then one month... she doesn't take a day off... Hmmm is Susie pregnant? She's not married... oh the scandal... Everyone can wonder right along with Susie why her period is late...

Mal .. . . it's early and that made me laugh . . . quite a feat for a sat. morning . . . that was hysterical.

Sweetpea

tecoyah · 02-12-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dostoevsky

Tecoyah, I'm stumped, do tell....

Spermal Retention Headache

warrrreagl · 02-12-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Now, I can see the plus side to this, that if a person is in pain, or not feeling well, they are not going to be productive. So, isn't a more liberal sick leave policy more beneficial to all employees, it's just trying to figure out how to eliminate abuse of it that would be the problem

Complete agreement from this male point of view. And SO WHAT if it's an unequal rule? Just because someone can scream about inequality does not mean that someone should. Unless he's one of those assholes who feels obligated to vent his perpetual outrage over today's headlines on the rest of us 7 days a week.

Although this is clearly unequal, it's a damned good idea. It sort of reminds me about the flap several years ago about making the Martin Luther King, Jr birthday a holiday. There were actually people in this country arguing vehemently against a holiday. Now, how big of an asshole do you have to be to take a stand AGAINST a day off work?

Psycho Dad · 02-12-2005, 12:43 PM

As it is, I feel sick days are abused to the extreme already. Where I work, we get five paid sick days a year. In the event you do not use them, they roll over to the next year and once a certain amount is accrued, the company buys them back. At no time over the last twenty years have I ever used more than two days a year. I also know many women who I work with that never miss work. I would have to assume that these women menstruate as much as Austrailian women. On the other hand I work with some men who use all five days every year plus some for what I feel are lame ass excuses. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Expecting an employer to pay a person for something that people have had to deal with since the beginning of time is senseless. It is also another example of society feeling it has to hang on the teat of something be it the government or business. I'd hate to work in an evironment where everyone was more concerned with designing ways to make the employer hand them more than a paycheck that was earned through hard work than actually being productive and a benefit to society.

Psycho Dad · 02-12-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

Now, how big of an asshole do you have to be to take a stand AGAINST a day off work?

Were it a stand against it due to a holiday honoring someone because they didn't care for the color of their skin, then yes they are being assholes. But a holiday just for the sake of another dy of is another matter. At some point, you have to draw the line. Every paid holiday is a day that an employer must pay someone for not being productive. We all pay for that eventually.

Ella · 02-12-2005, 01:59 PM

As a federal public servant, I get 20 paid sick leave days per year. And I suspect Australian taxpayers would baulk at paying for another 12.

AngelicVampire · 02-12-2005, 02:03 PM

Men and women should be equal, the law should be deaf and blind... colour, race and sex should not affect your prospects or your benefits. To give women additional sick days for this is silly, will people who are ill a lot demand more sick days because they are more likely to get sick? If the problem is debilitating then take a sick day, if it is not debilitating go into work, same as any other problem.

ryfo · 02-12-2005, 02:10 PM

i used to work as state public service i think i used to get 10 full days and 20 half days but there was also flexi time as well as well as annual leave..no wonder it always took forever to get things done

Ratman · 02-12-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

That might make for interesting rumors in the office... Susie worker took off for her period every month... then one month... she doesn't take a day off... Hmmm is Susie pregnant? She's not married... oh the scandal... Everyone can wonder right along with Susie why her period is late...

It does. I work in an office with nine women (I'm the only male

), and their cycles are all in sync. It becomes interesting to see who gets to "celebrate" Flag Day every month. I work in an industry that is dominated by women (it's not the sex industry) and the rumor mill is always cranking like you wouldn't believe. The first question asked when someone is going to quit is "Is she getting married?" or if she's married, "Is she pregnant?"

analog · 02-12-2005, 06:08 PM

This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard of. This is why there are existing sick days. If they do it, there damn well better be equal time for men.

maleficent · 02-12-2005, 06:21 PM

In the 16 people in my office, I am the lone female -- there is no freakin' way on this planet I would ever call in sick with cramps. There are some things that are just not anyone's business... (and somethings I am way too uptight to ever mention outside of an internet forum)

Blackthorn · 02-12-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

Were it a stand against it due to a holiday honoring someone because they didn't care for the color of their skin, then yes they are being assholes. But a holiday just for the sake of another dy of is another matter. At some point, you have to draw the line. Every paid holiday is a day that an employer must pay someone for not being productive. We all pay for that eventually.

Common sense as spoken by the Crazy Padre!

AfterBurn · 02-13-2005, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

Spermal Retention Headache

haha its funny cause its true

Pip · 02-13-2005, 09:05 AM

I'm against it. Equal pay for equal work, that's all I want. Sure, I get nasty puking my guts out can't hardly walk where's the cyanide cramps sometimes, but as long as I may get plain ol' sick leave for that I won't complain.

astrahl · 02-14-2005, 04:54 AM

My cramps can get so bad that sometimes I just have to sit in a corner, rock back and forth and whimper...and that is on medication. I take regular sick days off for that though.
Yeah, women have had to deal with this SH since the beginning of time, but it still hurts! Damn! We've dealt with pregnancy and birth since then too, it doesn't mean we don't deserve to get epidurals!

StanT · 02-14-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

In the 16 people in my office, I am the lone female -- there is no freakin' way on this planet I would ever call in sick with cramps.

And we thank you for it. The only woman's cycle that I have any interest in, is my wife's. Even then, it's just a matter of knowing when to keep my mouth shut.

I'm a strong believer in equal pay for equal work. If you do 5% less work, then you ought to get 5% less pay.

SaltPork · 02-14-2005, 12:01 PM

WTF?!?!?! That is such bullshit. Here's something to ponder:

*self-edited-figured I'd do it before the mods got to me and flayed me alive

Having said that, what even makes that an okay idea? Seriously, it's bad enough that non-smokers have to work more because they don't smoke and miss out on the "smoking breaks", but I'd be penalized more because I don't bleed out my crotch?!?! This world is fucked up!

Chamaeleontidae · 02-14-2005, 12:16 PM

I don't think adding 12 days for it is wise. Not everyone needs them, make it known that it's ok to use sick time for menstrual pain and call it a day. Actually let's just call it Paid Time off, and let people with kids, use the time for plays, field trips, and sporting events.

Personally, I'm happy that my crotch doesn't bleed.

02-12-2005, 06:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	Menstrual Leave? I was interested to hear unions in Australia are pushing for women workers at Toyota with menstrual pain be granted access to an extra 12 paid days off a year. God knows I'd love to stay home on that first day of my period when the only thing on my mind is when I took the last Nurofen, and I'm sure many women feel the same. So what sort of precedent does this set? I'm not sure if this has been negotiated in other countries, but if successful could create quite the ripple effect. Linky bit __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure." Last edited by Ella; 02-12-2005 at 06:38 AM..

02-12-2005, 06:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I would think it would set a bad precedent, in that do men get equal time off for -- ohh - -blue balls day? All kidding aside... Wouldn't this make a company NOT want to hire women if they knew they would have to compensate these women for 12 additional paid days off per year. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-12-2005, 07:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Another kick in the crotch for any ideal of "equality". __________________

02-12-2005, 07:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	Speaking as a man who works with women, I have NOOOO problem with this at all. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

02-12-2005, 07:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	It would also be interesting to know whether they would require the women to under go physical exams to see if they actually do have a medical condition that causes the painful periods. Dysmenorrhea is the condition that causes painful periods without an underlying medical condition, other painful periods can be caused by endometriosis, fibroids, and pelvic inflammatory disease, all which can be diagnosed by a doctor. In most instances, these conditions can be treated, so would they force women to get treatment? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-12-2005, 06:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I'm not sure you could give time off to women without doing the same for men. You are already free to use sick days or vacation if you wish. Setting up the genders as unequal in the workplace would be a bad precedent.

02-12-2005, 07:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	Good point. I suspect the civil libertarians would be up in arms, but it's an interesting thought. __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

02-12-2005, 07:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	I used to give my Male employees, One SRH day a month....to compensate for the paid PMS sick time my female employees took. Didnt tell the staff what SRH stood for, until about six months later.....got quite a chuckle from everyone when I finally did. I wonder if you all can guess what it means? __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

02-12-2005, 07:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ratman Addict Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...	In Japan women get paid days off for their periods, men don't get (or want) any equivelent time. It's actually called "Flag Day" (think of the Japanese flag). __________________ The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference. "God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

02-12-2005, 08:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dostoevsky Psycho Location: Macon, GA	12 extra paid days per year, per female employee would add up quickly for an employer. If I were hiring, I would be less inclined to choose a woman for a position where I could pick a man considering the extra cost involved. Tecoyah, I'm stumped, do tell.... __________________ Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be earned. It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

02-12-2005, 09:35 AM	#14 (permalink)
Livia Regina Crazy	I think that is a stupid idea. It will cost employers more to employ women and since there are discrimination laws everywhere preventing employers from not hiring women, they will hire fewer men too so that they can offset the cost of hiring women. And unemployment rates will go up. If a woman has cramps so painful that she is prevented from working, she needs to go to her doctor to fix the problem. __________________ Rule 37: There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload.'

02-12-2005, 12:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	As it is, I feel sick days are abused to the extreme already. Where I work, we get five paid sick days a year. In the event you do not use them, they roll over to the next year and once a certain amount is accrued, the company buys them back. At no time over the last twenty years have I ever used more than two days a year. I also know many women who I work with that never miss work. I would have to assume that these women menstruate as much as Austrailian women. On the other hand I work with some men who use all five days every year plus some for what I feel are lame ass excuses. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Expecting an employer to pay a person for something that people have had to deal with since the beginning of time is senseless. It is also another example of society feeling it has to hang on the teat of something be it the government or business. I'd hate to work in an evironment where everyone was more concerned with designing ways to make the employer hand them more than a paycheck that was earned through hard work than actually being productive and a benefit to society. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

02-12-2005, 01:59 PM	#21 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	As a federal public servant, I get 20 paid sick leave days per year. And I suspect Australian taxpayers would baulk at paying for another 12. __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

02-12-2005, 02:03 PM	#22 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	Men and women should be equal, the law should be deaf and blind... colour, race and sex should not affect your prospects or your benefits. To give women additional sick days for this is silly, will people who are ill a lot demand more sick days because they are more likely to get sick? If the problem is debilitating then take a sick day, if it is not debilitating go into work, same as any other problem.

02-12-2005, 02:10 PM	#23 (permalink)
ryfo Psycho Location: melbourne australia	i used to work as state public service i think i used to get 10 full days and 20 half days but there was also flexi time as well as well as annual leave..no wonder it always took forever to get things done

02-12-2005, 06:08 PM	#25 (permalink)
analog Banned	This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard of. This is why there are existing sick days. If they do it, there damn well better be equal time for men.

02-12-2005, 06:21 PM	#26 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	In the 16 people in my office, I am the lone female -- there is no freakin' way on this planet I would ever call in sick with cramps. There are some things that are just not anyone's business... (and somethings I am way too uptight to ever mention outside of an internet forum) __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-13-2005, 09:05 AM	#29 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	I'm against it. Equal pay for equal work, that's all I want. Sure, I get nasty puking my guts out can't hardly walk where's the cyanide cramps sometimes, but as long as I may get plain ol' sick leave for that I won't complain.

02-14-2005, 04:54 AM	#30 (permalink)
astrahl Insane Location: You don't want to live here	My cramps can get so bad that sometimes I just have to sit in a corner, rock back and forth and whimper...and that is on medication. I take regular sick days off for that though. Yeah, women have had to deal with this SH since the beginning of time, but it still hurts! Damn! We've dealt with pregnancy and birth since then too, it doesn't mean we don't deserve to get epidurals!

02-14-2005, 12:01 PM	#32 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	WTF?!?!?! That is such bullshit. Here's something to ponder: self-edited-figured I'd do it before the mods got to me and flayed me alive Having said that, what even makes that an okay idea? Seriously, it's bad enough that non-smokers have to work more because they don't smoke and miss out on the "smoking breaks", but I'd be penalized more because I don't bleed out my crotch?!?! This world is fucked up! __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear. Last edited by SaltPork; 02-15-2005 at 07:22 PM..*

02-14-2005, 12:16 PM	#33 (permalink)
Chamaeleontidae aka: freakylongname Location: South of the Great While North	I don't think adding 12 days for it is wise. Not everyone needs them, make it known that it's ok to use sick time for menstrual pain and call it a day. Actually let's just call it Paid Time off, and let people with kids, use the time for plays, field trips, and sporting events. Personally, I'm happy that my crotch doesn't bleed. __________________ "Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs." Robin Williams.