Muslims & sex - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Schwan · 01-14-2005, 02:14 PM

This thing poped up recently. It seems like some NYC Greenpoint muslims openly opose selling a Polish magazine that depicts a naked woman in a burka, and contains an article about muslim sexuality. New York Daily News reports:

http://nydailynews.com/front/story/271305p-232177c.html

Quote:

Outrage unveiled

BY OREN YANIV
and CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

A Burkha-wearing babe baring her breasts on the cover of a Polish magazine has ignited a culture mini-war in Brooklyn.

Outraged by what they call an insult to Islam, Yemeni newspaper vendors in Greenpoint are refusing to sell the latest edition of Forum magazine. Some have painted big black X's over the exposed flesh and are threatening to boycott the popular Polish-language weekly.

"The cover is no good," said Abdul al-Fatah, 30, at Greenpoint Variety Candy & Grocery on Manhattan Ave. "They show something bad about Islam, an Islamic woman naked. We feel angry about it."

Abdo Quhshi, 48, owner of the nearby Garden Stone grocery, said a Polish customer translated the cover story for him and he was deeply offended.

"Saying about my Prophet Muhammed that he loved women, you don't have to say that," he said.

But angry Poles said Forum is a respected newsmagazine - and some Yemenis have no qualms about peddling Hustler and Penthouse. "Many American magazines are worse than this," said Emily Branska, 22, of Ridgewood, Queens.

"They said it's haram - that means something bad," added Kasia Illyas, 22, a Polish immigrant married to a Muslim. "They don't even understand what it's about."

The topless temptress is superimposed onto a photo of covered Muslim women beneath the headline "Extremists in the Harem." Inside, there's a photograph of another woman, sitting in the buff amid white-clad female pilgrims in Mecca.

Forum ran them to accompany an article about sex and Islam by Dutch writer Hafid Bouazza, who claims the religion has been hijacked by "frustrated fanatics" who get their kicks from terror.

Waldemar Piasecki, New York correspondent for the Warsaw-based weekly Przeglad, said he is "puzzled" by Forum's choice of cover art.

"This is a serious magazine that has offered Poles a window on the world for more than 40 years," he said. "In all that time, I can't recall a naked woman on the cover."

The cover can be found here (probably NSFW)

Also, since I have a terrible exam tommorow, I've been looking for ways to avoid studying, so here's an extremely bad translation with lots of errors that I can't be buggered to fix today:

Quote:

<b>Are their bodies a sin?</b>

It's unimaginable, how a friendly to people and full of eroticism Islam became a weapon in the hands of the frustrated and fanatics - writes an arab writer, Nafid Bouazza.

Because Islam regulates, at least in theory, every aspect of life, including the social and private ones, it's no wonder that it also talks about sex. The basics of these teachings are the Koran and hadiths - text reportedly created by the prophet Mahomet, or stories portraying him. In XVII century Europe, Islam was described as a pornographic religion. This was so not only because of Mahomet’s reputation as a hedonist – to whom the famous words “of all the things in this world I love women and smells the most” are attributed – but also due to graphic descriptions of paradise, found in the Koran. Another basis for such an assumption was the fascination with male sexuality. Mahomet regarded sex not only as a reproductive process, but also as a mean of attaining pleasure. He acknowledged sex as something normal, just as long as it didn’t lead to the woman getting pregnant.

On September 11th 2001, Islam suddenly stopped being and erotic religion, and became a terrorist one. This is a very problematic change. I have in my mind a picture of a Moroccan man, who heard an Arab woman furiously shouting on his TV screen, that the civilization of the west is strangled by sex. Surprised, he exclaimed “that’s not true, we are also interested in sex!”. If that’s the case, I thought, the what is left today of the myth of the never-tired Arab man? This myth is illustrated by a popular anecdote: an Ararb men kidnapped a crusaders wife, and copulated with her seven times. The women then asked – Can all Arabs do that? He said yes – Then I understand why God allowed you to defeat us!

Warm words

Whoever regularly follows specific newspaper columns knows that attaining an orgasm is a very hard job. At least in the case of men, who attempt to satisfy their partner at the same time. To be fair to Mahomet, he used to teach to his student the importance of foreplay. - Don’t throw yourself at your wives right away, send a messenger first – he explained. Who’s the messanger? – the students asked. - Warm words and kisses.

We also know a little about Mahomet’s own sexual preferences. During sex, he covered his head and told his wife to “get comfortable”, before getting started. He also talked openly about sex with people who came to him for advice. He wasn’t circumcised. At least no document mentions that he was. This point was argued a lot by early Muslim researchers. Finally, they came to a conclusion that Mahomet, being the one chosen by God, was born circumcised. Before Islam, Arabs believed that a boy born during full moon is born circumcised.

The most important verse in the Koran that deals with sex bears the number 223 in the second sura, titled “Cow”: “You women are your field to plough. So come onto it how you wish.” The word “how” is problematic, because in the Arab language it bears a double meaning. It can be interpreted as “where you wish”. Teologists disputed that “how you want” might reference to sexual positions. The tradition says that “some Arabs” use the “on the side” position, as this is the best way not to see the partners vagina.

Exposing this part of the woman’s body was considered wrong (we will come back to this). Traditionally, this has been illustrated by a following story: once, a woman complained to the prophet that her husband showed her womb for everyone to see. Then Allah sent to Mahomet the aforementioned verse. In these times it was believed that if a women is taken from behind, her children will be cross-eyed, or that she will be infertile if she lays on top of a man. The missionary position uncovered her womb, thus it too was deemed indecent. Also, a fully clothed Muslim woman found it hard to actually spread her legs. Crossed legs were seen as I sign of indecency.

Al Ghazali (1058-1111) was the one responsible for transcribing the rules of sex. He said that both the man’s and woman’s bodies should stay covered during intercourse. The less intimate body parts are visible during sex, the better. Also, couples were forbidden from laying down so their heads would point towards Mecca. In order to “protect” his woman – that is to say, to keep her from having sex with others – a man should have sex with her very four days. The problem of the intercourse frequency is a debatable issue. It was widely discussed after Mahomet’s passing. Some said that sex should occur every three days.

It sure however that one should exclaim “Bismillah!” before intercourse, which means “in the name of Allah!”. Also, some verses of the Koran should be recited first. This was needed in order to guarantee luck in attaining offspring (getting a boy, that is). On of the Arabic sources tells this anecdote on the topic: it tells of a man who had only daughters. He told of this to his imma, who advised him to say before every intercourse “Astagferu Allah!”, which means “God, forgive me”. The man did so, and had ten sons. The moral of this story is that having a daughter is a punishment for sins.

The verse number 223 can be interpreted also as “come where you want”. This would mean however, that God allows anal sex. This was mentioned in many written documents. Mahomet reportedly said “do not come to your wife through their do-not-touch-me” (a euphemism, meaning anus). It also mentioned anal sex with women as “the minor sodomy”. Since the “major sodomy” (homosexuality) was punishable, one can presume that so was the minor one – just like in some American states. The Koran seems to confirm this, as one of it’s verses states: “You will be asked about your period. You will reply: This is suffering. So keep away from women during their period and do not come close to them until they cleanse themselves. When they cleanse themselfes, come onto them as God told you to.”

Islam has four main schools of law. One of them was created by theologist and lawyer Malik ibn Anas (715-795). He said that anal sex is fine under some circumstances: as a lesser sin then masturbation. According to the prophet, whoever masturbates, will never see heaven. Malik denied he ever said this and cursed the people who said so. Incidentally, it is the frustrated theologist to whom we can thank to for one of the only mentions of oral sex, that can be found in the classical Arab literature. We’re talking about a text from the XV century, that talked about whether Muslim men are allowed to look at a woman’s womb.

There are two interpretation of the prophets words, regarding this issue. One says that it’s fin, the other says it’s not. However, none of these viewpoints is considered to be authentic. As far as Mahomet words go, he is reported to have said that however sees their wivess or mother’s womb, will be destined to go blind. According to another source, he said that “God wanted your woman to be like clothing to you, and for you to be like clothing for her. I see everything that belong to a woman and she sees everything that belongs to me”. A compromise was found. It was concluded that viewing a womb is bad, but not due to religious matter, but because of medical dangers. Malik reportedly said that it is indecent for a man to view his wife’s vagina, or to “lick it”. It’s interpreted as a permissive exaggeration. Modern Islam agrees with these viewpoints, as they come form sources regarded as canonical.

Even the Arab Kamasutra, the classical writing of the Tunisian sheik Nafzawi, titled “The Blossoming Garden” (XV century) doesn’t mention oral sex. Abu Hajjan al-Tawhidi, who died in 1023, mentions it in his writing on sexual deviations. This philosopher was extremely levelheaded – he burned most of his writings, because he felt he wasn’t properly understood by his readers. In one of his books he writes about a monarch who fell in love with one of his slaves. “He lay her on her back, and poured alcohol into her womb. He then lay his lips on it and sucked the liquid in. He also drank her urine, and blood during her periods”.

Since we are on the topic, I can’t not mention another story form the same source. Al-Tawhidi tells of a royal employee, who “sucked the clitoris of one of the jewish slaves, stuck a finger in her anus, took it out, and placed it on his tongue, and said: this is the essence of wine, more precious to me then fruits of an apple tree”. So you see, the current outlook on sex is nothing new. Despite the fact that conservatism was suggested during intercourse, it was hard to calm the Muslim spirit.

The text also mention of rahaz – that is movement, changing of position - is acceptable during intercourse. Can a woman move during sex as she pleases? Can she shout and use obscene words? The answer is simple: since the wives of some of the more notable characters in the Muslim history, including the prophet, did so, it is. We know that during the VII century there lived a woman named Hubba, who advised other women on issues regarding sex. She came from the wholly city of Medina, and advised women to be active and scream during intercourse, to increase the pleasure of sex. Even when she was very old, her son did not hesitate to ask her for advice. “How do women want to be taken?” he asked, to which she replied “Son, if a women is my age, ask her to put her face against the ground, and take her from behind. If she’s young, take her legs and press her against her breasts. You will get what you want this way, and you will be satisfied”.

Newer writings affirm rahaz, because a women does this in order to affirm her pleasure. One might say in order to achiever orgasm. But the written Arab language doesn’t contain that word. In modern dictionaries, it’s described as “pain, caused by pleasure”. In Morocco the expression “to look for one’s head” is used to describe the ecstasy of intercourse.

This long gone openness erotica should be acknowledged. As the old saying goes, “there is no shame in religion”. I want to add to this: “neither is there any shame outside of it”.

Nafid Bouazza

The author, an Arab, is considered to be one of Holland’s most talented writers of the young generation. Born in Morocco, he left for Holland when he was seven. He writes stories, essays and theatrical plays. He is very critical of the Muslim background he comes from and he uses provocation frequently in his works – mainly by dealing with sexuality.

So there. Lots of complicated issues. Forst of all, the setting is completely mixed up. We are talking about muslims in New York, who are outraged at an article published in Poland, written originally in Holland by an arab. Right. The bottom line is that I don't think the muslims in NYC have anything to say - they are the guests in the US, and they should respect the laws taht govern their new home. Not being even remotely american, I'll leave the issue for american folks.

Second up, I'm surprised about what the article says about muslims being really rowdy folk. Then again, come to think of it, last summer I spent time with my then GF in Birmingham, UK, which houses the biggest muslim community in the country. The girls found that they couldn't get away from horny arab guys who would follow them around, sometimes for days! I haven't really read the Koran, or followed the complicated paths of muslim religion before the prophet, but it would seem that quite a lot of it is very dissorted. Come to think of it, that's also the case with christianity.

Lockjaw · 01-14-2005, 08:07 PM

Wow...that is...ummm...yeah.

I'm almost tempted to send this to a girl I know who is starting to study Islam to see what she thinks of it. But I don't think even Judaism or Christianity has that many rules concerning sex. Well Catholicism aside it doesn't.

Mephisto2 · 01-14-2005, 08:30 PM

Catholicism aside? Well, they make up the majority of Christians and they also claim to have the catholic (lower case c) interpretation.

I think this is in poor taste by the magazine. Sure, have an article, but no need to be insensitive.

Mr Mephisto

OFKU0 · 01-14-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwan

The bottom line is that I don't think the muslims in NYC have anything to say - they are the guests in the US, and they should respect the laws taht govern their new home. Not being even remotely american, I'll leave the issue for american folks.

I was about to add an insightful comment but graciously decline so as not to mirror the deficiencies I perceive as such.

vorpal_rabbit · 01-14-2005, 10:17 PM

Hm. Interesting. It seems to me that those who are more moderate in their religion tend to be the ones who are more quiet about it, and who tend to not make any fuss. It's always the deeply committed, nigh-unto fanatical ones, or at leastm teh extremely conservative ones, that make a big issue of it, and who go around annoying everyone else. Just a thought.

Comprehend · 01-14-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwan

The bottom line is that I don't think the muslims in NYC have anything to say - they are the guests in the US, and they should respect the laws taht govern their new home. Not being even remotely american, I'll leave the issue for american folks.

I think you're missing the point. Who says they are visitors? Islam is not a foreign religion, it is one with wide acceptance and great following in practically any country you can name. You don't have to be the stereotypical arab immigrant to be muslim. I know many people who are as Canadian as I am, yet practice strongly their faith. The same works, I would imagine, in the United States. Its ever more clear that if their religion cannot be respected, it should at least not be attacked or defamed this way.

Frowning Budah · 01-14-2005, 11:51 PM

I think the magazine could have done a serious article without the cover that obviously was insulting to the Muslims.

Rlyss · 01-15-2005, 01:31 AM

I lived in Saudi Arabia for six years in the late 80s and early 90s, and lived in Malaysia for two years, and I've also studied Islam and the Middle East at length. And although this is terrible politically incorrect, I don't think that Islam is good news at all. Just because it's an established religion with millions of followers doesn't mean I like its teachings. Every religions has its abuses, of course, but I believe many of Islam's ideas are backwards and its teachings on sex and gender roles are often horrific.

Be that as it may, the magazine could have chosen a more tasteful way to bring to light the double standards or inconsistencies between Islamic theory and practice. I think a cover such as that went beyond 'thought-provoking and controversial' and ended up as shameless and cheap attention grabbing.

RolandGilead · 01-15-2005, 03:16 AM

Speaking about Muslims and sex, the news just came in that the german police in Hamburg found explicit Porno-pics on the PC of one of the main suspects of 9/11 and alleged strict muslim Mounir al-Motassadeq.
Quite interesting, eh?! No Religon or philosophy can keep off men from wanking...

I would link you the article but it`s in german.

Schwan · 01-15-2005, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandGilead

Speaking about Muslims and sex, the news just came in that the german police in Hamburg found explicit Porno-pics on the PC of one of the main suspects of 9/11 and alleged strict muslim Mounir al-Motassadeq.
Quite interesting, eh?! No Religon or philosophy can keep off men from wanking... I would link you the article but it`s in german.

This sounds every intersting indeed, though I have to say it also sounds suspiciously like propaganda. But again, no clue about that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comprehend

I think you're missing the point. Who says they are visitors? Islam is not a foreign religion, it is one with wide acceptance and great following in practically any country you can name. You don't have to be the stereotypical arab immigrant to be muslim. I know many people who are as Canadian as I am, yet practice strongly their faith. The same works, I would imagine, in the United States. Its ever more clear that if their religion cannot be respected, it should at least not be attacked or defamed this way.

It's a very touchy subject. Is a picture of a woman with her breats exposed, in a burka, a form of attack, or defamation against Islam? I think it's a matter of taste, personally, and the picture in question is nowhere near as bad as what you might find in some pr0n magazines.

Too be honest, even though I saw the paper on the newstands in Warsaw, I didn't even notice the breats. This is Europe, and we have a slightly different outtake on these matters. The first time I heard about this issue was on FARK. We have a small muslim community in Poland - left from the wars with Turkey several hundred years ago. We also have a few immigrants from arab countries. So far I haven't heard a sigle protest.

On to the issue at hand - the arabs mentioned in the article refuse to sell that magazine. I guess that as long as it's their business, they are allowed to do that. None the less, they are banning a newspaper that not only was printed half a world away, but was not even intended for them to read in the first place. It's like I would refuse to sell a vietnamese newspaper in my kiosk stand in Warsaw, because I heard that there's an article in there that mentions a story of Polish people killing jews during World War II (a very touchy subject).

I think there's something wrong with that picture, what do you think?

Lockjaw · 01-15-2005, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Catholicism aside? Well, they make up the majority of Christians and they also claim to have the catholic (lower case c) interpretation.

I think this is in poor taste by the magazine. Sure, have an article, but no need to be insensitive.

Mr Mephisto

True but even though they are the majority they aren't the only sect in Christianity especially not in America at least.

As far as the article being insensitive there are stories that get printed all the time about Christianity that are accompanied by insensitive things or pictures. The typical response to those that get offended is stop being so uptight. Why is this different?

Dostoevsky · 01-18-2005, 12:23 PM

I'll tell you what, if those Arabs living in NYC and complaining about this article don't like the 1st amendment, they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience.

Cynthetiq · 01-18-2005, 01:14 PM

I think that every one and everything has the right to be insensitive. It may not be as profitable but they have the ability to get their point across.

Don't buy it. Don't support advertisers of that magazine. Don't support shops that sell it.

Comprehend · 01-18-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dostoevsky

I'll tell you what, if those Arabs living in NYC and complaining about this article don't like the 1st amendment, they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience.

And it is impossible that there are Americans (just as American as you, I assume) who practice the Islamic faith? Maybe they could say the same about you and the condoning of a disgrace against their religion.

Chupes · 01-18-2005, 06:08 PM

Very interesting, but those damn NYC arabs better sell the damn mag. Let's see how they like it if we make them follow Christianity. The press has as much right to sell that as they do to follow their religion.

agk · 01-18-2005, 06:42 PM

that's not news. i've seen nuns naked also. obviously they were not nuns, but just posing as nuns. anyways, i think those magazine publishers have there 1st ammendment: freedom of the press to publish whatever they wish to.

Fohur2 · 01-18-2005, 06:50 PM

Damn Canadians too,they should leave.

sapiens · 01-18-2005, 07:00 PM

On topic:

I agree with Cynthetiq. If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't support their advertisers.

Slightly off-topic:

Quote:

"Let's see how they like it of we make them follow Christianity"

Huh? I assume that you weren't serious, but we're going to make them follow Christianity? Who belongs to this "we" that will force people to convert?

Quote:

I don't think the muslims in NYC have anything to say - they are the guests in the US

I tend to agree with Comprehend. How are they guests?

Quote:

they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience.

Should everyone who is sensitive about their religion leave the country or just those Muslims who are sensitive?

Quote:

i think those magazine publishers have there 1st ammendment: freedom of the press to publish whatever they wish to.

A bit nit-picky, but it's a Polish magazine. The publishers likely don't have 1st amendment rights. (Their rights of free speech are probably specified by Polish laws).

Kalibah · 01-18-2005, 07:24 PM

Didn't Mohammad have a 13 year old wife? I was kinda distgusted when I learnt that. I understand women married very early, to much much older man way back when, wasn't mary 16 or something?

They, like many relgions have thigns a little... backwards, but I think Islam has this whole ownership over women thing going on, which doesnt suprise me from what I know about their culture.

fckm · 01-18-2005, 07:43 PM

in the middle ages, european girls typically married at around 15, I believe.

fckm · 01-18-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dostoevsky

I'll tell you what, if those Arabs living in NYC and complaining about this article don't like the 1st amendment, they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience.

I'll tell you what, if those Christians complaining about arabs excerising their right to complain don't like the 1st amendment, they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience.

//dumbass

Schwan · 01-19-2005, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapiens

I tend to agree with Comprehend. How are they guests?

I assumed automatically that they're not US citizens. My bad. My point was that they came from a different country in the first place, and are trying to force their beliefs not only on other citizens, but on members of a different minority. Since the Muslims in question are American citizens, they fall under the 1st amendment, which, in fact, allows them to speak out against the 1st amendment.

This reminds of the problem France had a while ago. Muslim students were told not to wear burkas to school, because french schools ban any religious symbols. The Muslims didn't agree with this and started a protest. In the end, the French government didn't budge, and said that it Muslims want to be a part of the French community, they have to respect the French law and customs.

01-14-2005, 10:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
vorpal_rabbit Upright Location: Athens, Ga	Hm. Interesting. It seems to me that those who are more moderate in their religion tend to be the ones who are more quiet about it, and who tend to not make any fuss. It's always the deeply committed, nigh-unto fanatical ones, or at leastm teh extremely conservative ones, that make a big issue of it, and who go around annoying everyone else. Just a thought. __________________ The door flew open. A Mongol warrior surged into the hut like a savage wind. Two children ran screaming to their mother who was cowering wide eyed in the corner of the tiny room. A dog yelped. The warrior hurled his torch on to the still glowing fire, and then threw the dog on to it. That would teach it to be a dog.

01-18-2005, 12:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dostoevsky Psycho Location: Macon, GA	I'll tell you what, if those Arabs living in NYC and complaining about this article don't like the 1st amendment, they have my blessing to get the fuck out of the country at their earliest convenience. __________________ Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be earned. It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

01-18-2005, 01:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I think that every one and everything has the right to be insensitive. It may not be as profitable but they have the ability to get their point across. Don't buy it. Don't support advertisers of that magazine. Don't support shops that sell it. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

01-18-2005, 07:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
fckm Insane Location: Ithaca, New York	in the middle ages, european girls typically married at around 15, I believe. __________________ And if you say to me tomorrow, oh what fun it all would be. Then what's to stop us, pretty baby. But What Is And What Should Never Be.

01-14-2005, 08:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Wow...that is...ummm...yeah. I'm almost tempted to send this to a girl I know who is starting to study Islam to see what she thinks of it. But I don't think even Judaism or Christianity has that many rules concerning sex. Well Catholicism aside it doesn't.

01-14-2005, 08:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Catholicism aside? Well, they make up the majority of Christians and they also claim to have the catholic (lower case c) interpretation. I think this is in poor taste by the magazine. Sure, have an article, but no need to be insensitive. Mr Mephisto

01-14-2005, 11:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	I think the magazine could have done a serious article without the cover that obviously was insulting to the Muslims.

01-15-2005, 01:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rlyss The Pusher Location: Edinburgh	I lived in Saudi Arabia for six years in the late 80s and early 90s, and lived in Malaysia for two years, and I've also studied Islam and the Middle East at length. And although this is terrible politically incorrect, I don't think that Islam is good news at all. Just because it's an established religion with millions of followers doesn't mean I like its teachings. Every religions has its abuses, of course, but I believe many of Islam's ideas are backwards and its teachings on sex and gender roles are often horrific. Be that as it may, the magazine could have chosen a more tasteful way to bring to light the double standards or inconsistencies between Islamic theory and practice. I think a cover such as that went beyond 'thought-provoking and controversial' and ended up as shameless and cheap attention grabbing.

01-15-2005, 03:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
RolandGilead Tilted Location: Germany	Speaking about Muslims and sex, the news just came in that the german police in Hamburg found explicit Porno-pics on the PC of one of the main suspects of 9/11 and alleged strict muslim Mounir al-Motassadeq. Quite interesting, eh?! No Religon or philosophy can keep off men from wanking... I would link you the article but it`s in german.

01-18-2005, 06:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
Chupes Tilted	Very interesting, but those damn NYC arabs better sell the damn mag. Let's see how they like it if we make them follow Christianity. The press has as much right to sell that as they do to follow their religion.

01-18-2005, 06:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
agk Upright	that's not news. i've seen nuns naked also. obviously they were not nuns, but just posing as nuns. anyways, i think those magazine publishers have there 1st ammendment: freedom of the press to publish whatever they wish to.

01-18-2005, 06:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
Fohur2 Crazy	Damn Canadians too,they should leave.

01-18-2005, 07:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
Kalibah Insane Location: Padded Playhouse	Didn't Mohammad have a 13 year old wife? I was kinda distgusted when I learnt that. I understand women married very early, to much much older man way back when, wasn't mary 16 or something? They, like many relgions have thigns a little... backwards, but I think Islam has this whole ownership over women thing going on, which doesnt suprise me from what I know about their culture.