Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-11-2005, 06:22 AM   #41 (permalink)
I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot!
 
raeanna74's Avatar
 
Location: Upper Michigan
I'm surprised that anyone could think this is a good idea. I had a friend who had a miscarriage and she was somewhat sick for a couple days. The miscarriage was a result of some other health problems. To require a woman who could potentially be ailing to put herself for such a stressful event AFTER already ungoing such emotional and physical upset is barbaric. I would probably not report it. Especially if I hadn't told anyone else. I never told anyone else when I first got pregnant until I was already a month along and then it was only my husband. Later, when I was 3 months along I told my family and friends. No one could have even guessed it let alone the government. What kind of violation of privacy could this entail if someone else were to falsely "tip" off the police. Would they try to invade you're home to investigate the violation? This isn't something you can control so well. Some women can even have a "miscarriage" and not even know. They may think it's only a large blood clot as they start a "period" and beyond that they are clueless. Granted once the fetus is farther along in the gestational period it would be more recognizable but usually by then the woman is aware of things and seeing a gyno about the pregnancy. Asking a physician to report miscarriages using only numbers instead of names is fine in my eyes. At that point the CDC can keep track of certain trends that may encourage miscarriage and help other women prevent a miscarriage. But this - it's invasive, unnecessary, and downright mean to the woman who goes through such an experience.
__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.
raeanna74 is offline  
Old 01-11-2005, 07:43 AM   #42 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Alton, IL
I can't believe one person here endorses a woman not even telling the father that she is pregnant. That's just about the height of immaturity to me. I don't see how this law has any more potential for being abused than women falsely crying rape, which happens a lot. I suppose the only people against this are people who support abortion and fear the government is trying to make a blanket ban on it. Otherwise, I ask again, why does it matter if the government keeps tabs on who lives and dies in this country, born or not? I don't buy the privacy issue at all. We give up a lot of liberties for the common good. The police can force me to give a semen sample if someone accuses me of rape. That seems pretty invasive to me, but nobody is lobbying against rape laws. Preganancy is not and never should be a hidden process. I sincerely hope those against this don't support women aborting their children without even telling the father of the pregnancy. A few responses seem to be going in that direction but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
gondath is offline  
Old 01-11-2005, 07:47 AM   #43 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Looks like someone realized his ignorance.............

Legislation that would have required mothers who had failed to report fetal deaths to the police within 12 hours of the delivery to face a possible misdemeanor sentence will be withdrawn, its patron said on Monday.

"I've elected to withdraw HB 1677 from consideration by the General Assembly this year. The language is just too confusing," Del. John Cosgrove, R-Chesapeake, told The Augusta Free Press.

Seems the Web had something to do with this bieng pulled from consideration. Good for us.

http://democracyforvirginia.typepad...._for_virginia/
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 01-11-2005, 07:53 AM   #44 (permalink)
thinktank
Guest
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gondath
We give up a lot of liberties for the common good.
I'm sorry, but I dont buy it. I've been clawing tooth and nail for the liberties they've been attempting to rape us of over the course of the last 3-4 years. I've been a member of the ACLU for a lot longer than that, but it's become a much bigger fight lately. We were all (or at least a great deal of us were) born into this country that is significantly better off than most other places on the planet. We have all of these rights because thousands of people fought and died for us to have them, and to ignore that and willingly give them up is quite litterally worse than death. What use is the body without the heart?
 
Old 01-11-2005, 07:54 AM   #45 (permalink)
thinktank
Guest
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah
Looks like someone realized his ignorance.............

Legislation that would have required mothers who had failed to report fetal deaths to the police within 12 hours of the delivery to face a possible misdemeanor sentence will be withdrawn, its patron said on Monday.

"I've elected to withdraw HB 1677 from consideration by the General Assembly this year. The language is just too confusing," Del. John Cosgrove, R-Chesapeake, told The Augusta Free Press.

Seems the Web had something to do with this bieng pulled from consideration. Good for us.

http://democracyforvirginia.typepad...._for_virginia/
Thats the best news i've heard in weeks.
 
Old 01-11-2005, 04:09 PM   #46 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: nyc
Quote:
Originally Posted by gondath
I ask again, why does it matter if the government keeps tabs on who lives and dies in this country, born or not? I don't buy the privacy issue at all. We give up a lot of liberties for the common good. .
I still fail to see what "common good" women would be sacrificing for in this circumstance. I think the rest of the posts on this board outline pretty well why this law would be an invasion of privacy but i've yet to see you (or anyone else, including the writer of the law himself) provide any evidence that reporting miscarriages to the state government of Virginia would provide for the common good.
brianna is offline  
Old 01-11-2005, 07:23 PM   #47 (permalink)
Crazy
 
munchen's Avatar
 
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
That's a big relief its withdrawn. but still, the fact that someone wanted it through makes you wonder. "The language is just too confusing"? HA!
__________________
"Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun" -Matt Groening
munchen is offline  
Old 01-12-2005, 07:03 AM   #48 (permalink)
I and I
 
Location: Stillwater, OK
I think politicians write crazy legislation for laughs, or at least I hope that was the case here...
Gortexfogg is offline  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:50 PM   #49 (permalink)
Upright
 
Quote:
House Bill 1677 is to require the notification of authorities of a delivery of a baby that is dead and the mother has not been attended by a medical professional. This bill was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department in its legislative package due to instances of full term babies who were abandoned shortly after birth. These poor children died horrible deaths. If a coroner could not determine if the child was born alive, the person responsible for abandoning the child could only be charged with is the improper disposal of a human body.
On this page

The legislation's intent wasn't as ominous as it's been made out to be. It clearly was just worded poorly. Just to throw my $.02, given the intent, notification shouldn't be required till after a period of time where the child could survive outside the womb.
M.T. Promises is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 05:40 AM   #50 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: nyc
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.T. Promises
On this page

The legislation's intent wasn't as ominous as it's been made out to be. It clearly was just worded poorly. Just to throw my $.02, given the intent, notification shouldn't be required till after a period of time where the child could survive outside the womb.
This would be *somewhat* more reasonable but isn't abandoning a baby already illegal? I think there is usually a very clear line between babies who were born and abandoned and those that were miscarried. And i doubt very much that mother's who have choosen to abandon there baby would then *report* the birth as a miscarriage. This law still seems hard to enforce and easily ignored by the people it targets.
brianna is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 09:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
Eat your vegetables
 
genuinegirly's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
I cringe at the thought of this. Why does the government need record of your miscarriage? It's not something that most women want to remember themselves, much less have documented. I don't see something like this flying in the state of California.
__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy
genuinegirly is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 08:00 PM   #52 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah
Do we decide these cells are Human the scientific way (when they form a brain capable of creating waves that bear some resemblence to human thought)?
Or do we decide the religious way (when sperm meets egg)?
Option 3.

The scientific way, when sperm meets egg.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 08:47 PM   #53 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolThemAll
Option 3.

The scientific way, when sperm meets egg.
Actually, the scientific term for this is "Zygote". Which will eventually become an embryo, which will eventually become a human child.

But hey....Call it whatever you want, just use the proper term when creating a Law that will affect others.
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 09:35 PM   #54 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Alton, IL
That zygote is still of the human species.
gondath is offline  
Old 01-14-2005, 09:50 PM   #55 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Athens, Ga
I read about this a few days ago, and it scares me quite a bit. Never mind that a) I'm not a woman, and b) I don't live in Virginia, the fact that this law would be proposed and NOT GET DISMISSED OUT OF HAND it more than a little troublesome. Not good. Not good at all...
__________________
The door flew open. A Mongol warrior surged into the hut like a savage wind. Two children ran screaming to their mother who was cowering wide eyed in the corner of the tiny room. A dog yelped.

The warrior hurled his torch on to the still glowing fire, and then threw the dog on to it. That would teach it to be a dog.
vorpal_rabbit is offline  
Old 01-15-2005, 03:12 AM   #56 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gondath
That zygote is still of the human species.
No.....I am sorry, scientifically it is not. It is a group of Human spawned cells, But it is still a Zygote. Just as the Zygote spawned by a mouse.....is not yet a mouse, but it may very well become one in time.
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 01-15-2005, 08:25 AM   #57 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah
No.....I am sorry, scientifically it is not. It is a group of Human spawned cells, But it is still a Zygote. Just as the Zygote spawned by a mouse.....is not yet a mouse, but it may very well become one in time.
Scientifically...there isn't an answer to this dispute. There's nothing in science that shows it to be more rational to call a zygote a non-human, outside of the fact that it isn't yet viable or can't yet think. There's nothing in science that shows it to be more rational to call a zygote a human, outside of the fact that it's a biological organism with unique human DNA that continually grows as other life forms do.

"Knowing what we know about that thing inside a pregnant woman's body and how it develops, when do we call it a human being?" is a philosophical question.

That's why it's incorrect to discount option #3.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
 

Tags
law, miscarriage, mothers, notify, penalty, require, state


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:40 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360