What the hell are these lasers? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

anleja · 12-30-2004, 10:54 PM

This is some bizarre stuff. Does anyone have any clue what these could be? I'm hoping against terror activity... I remember kids in middle school playing with their little annoying laser pointers, perhaps this is the same thing, except instead of at the lunch ladies they are pointing them at pilots...

crazy cockpit/laser story

Quote:

US probes 'laser-tracked' flights

US investigators are examining a spate of cases in which laser beams have been shone into the cockpits of aircraft.

The most recent case was in Cleveland, Ohio, on Monday night, where a pilot says a green laser light was shone through the window of his cockpit.

The light tracked with the plane for several seconds as it came in to land.

The FBI, worried that terrorists may use lasers to stun and disorientate pilots, is investigating a series of similar incidents involving lasers.

The FBI has recently warned law enforcement agencies that terrorist have explored using lasers as weapons. However, authorities say they have no specific intelligence to link the incidents with al-Qaeda activities in the US.

"It didn't just splash and vanish, which made the pilot believe he was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk told AFP news agency.

The pilot landed the plane and the FBI traced the beam to a residential area of Cleveland.

Six similar incidents are being examined by the FBI.

On Monday, two pilots in Colorado reported green pulsating laser beams in their cockpits in Colorado Springs. Both planes landed without incident.

Shpoop · 12-30-2004, 11:00 PM

wierd. first thought that came to my mind was jennifer lopez's "waiting for tonight" music video. ive never really seen any other green lasers

Grancey · 12-30-2004, 11:02 PM

This really sounds like some punk kids having fun. If it is, they should be aware that this is a federal offense. If it is terrorism......

AquaFox · 12-30-2004, 11:18 PM

i'm just curious to find out what kind of laser they would be... if it was green and they managed to get it in the cockpit of a plane for more than a glimpse, your looking at atleast $500+.... telescope with lazer attached and properly aligned.... most likely a large laser device which wouldn't be normally on the market... like one of those 4inch wide and 2 feet long box laser things.... due to the lack of market and production of them and knowing that the person is in cleveland should give the FBI a decent chance of getting a lead... the user would also have to have telescoping skills and the ability to align the telescope and laser up.... soo either machining skills or major duck-tape ablilty... i would most likely see this as a stupid prank and nothing serious...

tritium · 12-30-2004, 11:37 PM

My $150 just-for-fun red laser spreads to the size of a Volkswagon van in 150yds. I can't image what's required to keep a nice tight beam focused on a fast moving target the size of a shoebox (cockpit window) from a distance of 8000ft+.

That's crazy.

eyeronic · 12-30-2004, 11:44 PM

LASERIFFIC! That's what they are. Em. Er. Uh. Laser beams. Yeah.

Fire · 12-30-2004, 11:47 PM

seems needlessly high tech to be terrorists to me- if you can hit it with a laser, then you can bring it down with a .50 cal aimed at the same place- and those are availabe for purchase to anyone with a few grand to spend, with no waiting period ......

anleja · 12-30-2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeronic

LASERIFFIC! That's what they are. Em. Er. Uh. Laser beams. Yeah.

haha, let me elaborate: what the hell is the source of these laser?

Would these be strong enough to get into a cockpit of an airliner?

NegativeNine · 12-30-2004, 11:50 PM

This is no joke. The Death Star Shot green lasers, too, and it blew up a planet.

Nisses · 12-31-2004, 12:25 AM

Found a site a while ago. On it, a guy sold class II lasers at about $200-$300, they were all green, could punch through a plastic cup from across the room, or light something in the night sky.

It took a couple of weeks to get orders through, because he had them manufactured in China I believe.

At any rate, this article made me think of that rightaway... Prolly a jokester who wanted to try out one of these things?

highly dangerous tho

edit: oh, and they were actually the size of a regular flashlight, and I imagine just as heavy

Harshaw · 12-31-2004, 12:31 AM

Probably just someone training for the next major blockbuster motion picture.

FngKestrel · 12-31-2004, 12:38 AM

History Channel had something on Modern Marvels about non-lethal weapons like a laser that could be used in CQB that shone green light in the face of the enemy. The high intensity beam was disabling when the person tried to look at it. Maybe the same thing?

holymoly · 12-31-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NegativeNine

This is no joke. The Death Star Shot green lasers, too, and it blew up a planet.

But alderaan is a peaceful planet!

Seriously though, it would probably take a bit of work to build something capable of shining into an airplane cockpit, and being noticeable, from far away, as well as being able to keep it steady and track fast enough to do that to a plane that is travelling at a couple hundred mph.

TheBrit · 12-31-2004, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritium

My $150 just-for-fun red laser spreads to the size of a Volkswagon van in 150yds. I can't image what's required to keep a nice tight beam focused on a fast moving target the size of a shoebox (cockpit window) from a distance of 8000ft+.

That's crazy.

A well positioned lens should be able to do that.

Macheath · 12-31-2004, 04:50 AM

Well it was obviously Gordon Freeman.

MXL · 12-31-2004, 06:01 AM

Tom Clancy wrote about this in one of his books. Two Japanese AWAC were shot with one of these lasers on final approuch, blinding the pilot and causing a crash. In the same book, a Boeing 747 is crashed into the Capitol building. Sound familiar?

Cynthetiq · 12-31-2004, 06:54 AM

The Rio Hotel in Las Vegas used to have a very powerful green laser on the top of it's building and would shoot out across the desert sky for miles away from Las Vegas.

They stopped after a pilot was "blinded" for a moment by the laser.

scott_p_1 · 12-31-2004, 07:50 AM

Maybe they're sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads?

rickscales · 12-31-2004, 08:01 AM

You'd need a laser like this to do that kind of damage.

Of course, my link is down because of the recent plane problems.

dy156 · 12-31-2004, 08:11 AM

I thought it was pretty silly at first when I heard about this a few weeks ago, too. This article changed my mind.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2111036

Quote:

explainer Answers to your questions about the news.

Can Lasers Really Bring Down Planes?
Actually, yes.
By Brendan I. Koerner
Posted Tuesday, Dec. 14, 2004, at 2:31 PM PT

Listen to this story on NPR's Day to Day.

The FBI and Department of Homeland Security are warning law-enforcement agencies to look out for laser-wielding terrorists. Lasers, a recent memo states, could be used to blind commercial airline pilots just prior to landing. Anyone who's ever used a laser pointer might be a bit skeptical of the alert, however, given how difficult it is to fix the beam on a stationary spot a few dozen meters away—to say nothing of a passenger jet zooming toward an airport runway. How feasible is this laser attack, really?

Quite feasible, assuming the terrorists can get their hands on some military-grade hardware designed for exactly this purpose. The Chinese-made ZM-87 is perhaps the best known of these blinding weapons, also known as laser dazzlers. It was designed to foil night-vision equipment and burn the retinas of enemy troops and has an effective range of up to 10 kilometers. The device is usually mounted on tanks, though there are reports that it's been added to the decks of naval vessels, too. China North Industries Corporation, better known as Norinco, has been manufacturing and selling the ZM-87 since roughly 1995.

The Chinese are not the only military power curious about the offensive capabilities of lasers. The Russians are reputed to have developed a similar dazzler, which may have been involved in a 1997 incident in which a U.S. Naval intelligence officer claims his eyesight was permanently damaged during a helicopter mission in the Straits of Juan de Fuca. (Click here for the latest on that controversial saga, which has become a minor cause célèbre.) The United States has also tinkered with dazzlers of its own, though its focus is apparently more on short-range disruptors that can be attached to rifles.

None of this hardware is easily obtainable, so a terrorist might be more likely to invest in a consumer-grade laser system, of the sort used in outdoor light shows. Such systems can be had for as little as a few thousand dollars and pack enough eye-burning wallops to get the job done. In fact, pilots have often complained about the inadvertent threat of errant laser-show lasers; in 1995, for example, laser shows on the Las Vegas Strip were temporarily suspended, due to the safety objections of airlines that use the city's nearby airports. It took over four years for the outdoor shows to return, after the operators drew up usage guidelines guaranteeing that no errant beams would hit passing cockpits.

It's also possible, albeit unlikely, that a high-powered laser pointer could wreak havoc on a pilot's sight. There are some imported pointers that are unusually intense, and the FBI has warned that criminals may be bundling these devices together to create homemade dazzlers capable of reaching 1,500 feet into the air.

The trick, of course, is being able to hit the pilot square in the eyes through the cockpit glass—a feat that would require an extraordinary amount of luck. But it's not impossible, as evidenced by a September incident near Salt Lake City International Airport in which a Delta Air Lines pilot suffered a burned retina due to a laser beam. The source of that laser is still unknown.

An effective dazzler attack on a commercial plane may be highly unlikely. A bigger concern is the use of lasers during aerial combat; temporary disorientation during a dogfight, for example, could be disastrous. The Navy has developed a device called the Laser Event Recorder, which warns pilots when lasers are bombarding their cockpit. The Army Research Office is also funding a project at the University of Central Florida that's looking into visors that darken automatically when bombarded with lasers.

Next question?

Brendan I. Koerner is a contributing editor at Wired and a fellow at the New America Foundation.

Photograph of plane on the Slate home page © Royalty-Free/Corbis.

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AquaFox · 12-31-2004, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickscales

You'd need a laser like this to do that kind of damage.

Of course, my link is down because of the recent plane problems.

thats a pretty powerful one allright! i gotta download that video on that site of the burning cup some time

the last big laser i seen was at a demonstration, they had a red ballon inside a clear ballon, and they showed how aiming the laser at the ballons would make only the red ballon inside pop due to the colors

Craven Morehead · 12-31-2004, 10:43 AM

My son is a commercial airline pilot and this concerns the hell out of me.

Wouldn't take much to temporarily blind a pilot. Just a momentary flash at night could blind boths pilots long enough to cause them to not be able to see their controls. A plane is probably no more vulnerable than when on approach. Very easy to track at that time. Nice straight glide slope, consistant speed, pilots very busy. The worst possible time in flight for that to happen.

Coppertop · 12-31-2004, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickscales

You'd need a laser like this to do that kind of damage.

Of course, my link is down because of the recent plane problems.

This was the website I was going to link to. It's quite a powerful laser. It can put a dot on clouds and burn a hole through a cup.

edit - this is from the laser's webpage:

Quote:

A word of caution - This laser can be DANGEROUS. Please NEVER point this laser at a person, a vehicle, an animal, an aircraft, or operate it in an environment where the reflected beam can hit your face. Like all high-power lasers, if the beam from this laser hits your eyes at close range, it can cause blindness. This laser must be treated like a loaded gun at all times.

onetime2 · 12-31-2004, 10:59 AM

I suspect it's mostly commercial type stuff for store openings and the like. From some articles it seems that this has happened sporadically for a couple of years and the growing use of them for attention getting visuals would coincide with the concerns. I'm leaning away from them being a terrorist attempt to down a plane since it's a far from likely way to succeed.

Stiltzkin · 12-31-2004, 01:05 PM

For someone to do this on purpose, would require unthinkable accuracy. I can't even imagine what kind of person could do this with eyesight alone, even guided by a telescope or some other magnifying device. Maybe our pilots need to stop taking drugs or something... what do I know?

Lockjaw · 12-31-2004, 01:31 PM

Nah where there is smoke there's fire. I could see possibly doing this as a plane landed with a lot of practice and a good spotter. I wonder if there is any way the co-pilot could avert their eyes until they landed just to prevent both pilots from being blinded.

Arroe · 12-31-2004, 08:14 PM

Perhaps there is technology capable of locking on to aircraft? Similar to what they use for AA weaponry.

rfra3645 · 01-09-2005, 04:42 PM

i heard this laser was bought on ebay.. and the guy said it was his 9 yr old girl.. later fessed up to the cops that it was he himself playing with hs new toy.. this info came from the radio i belive it was fox and friends in the morning on my xm.. they said it is capable of shooting 20 miles... i ahve to admit i would have no reaosn for having one but it would be great fun to paly with for a little while.. i live and the country and it would be fun to play with the manny amish folk around here... hehe

anyway this got chalked up as joke gone bad.....

anleja · 01-09-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfra3645

i heard this laser was bought on ebay.. and the guy said it was his 9 yr old girl.. later fessed up to the cops that it was he himself playing with hs new toy..

Way to go Daddy! Someone owes his daughter some ice cream.

mrklixx · 01-10-2005, 04:03 AM

It's that damn Mitch trying to make popcorn again.

TexanAvenger · 01-10-2005, 08:44 PM

My first thought when I heard about these things wasn't about where they came from or who was using them, but rather what they were doing. I wonder if somebody's bouncing the lasers off of the cockpit windows and listening in on the conversation or something...

ICER · 01-10-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanAvenger

My first thought when I heard about these things wasn't about where they came from or who was using them, but rather what they were doing. I wonder if somebody's bouncing the lasers off of the cockpit windows and listening in on the conversation or something...

Never thought about that, It's a good possabilty, But don't com airlines broadcast on an open channel. so anyone can listen in? or did 9/11 change that?

Craven Morehead · 01-10-2005, 09:19 PM

Interesting story at Wired.com. A detection device is on the way.

story here

Quote:

Aviators Beware: Too Many Lasers Associated Press
Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/gizmos/0,1452,66218,00.html

03:41 PM Jan. 08, 2005 PT

NEW YORK -- Lasers mark dates on boxes of butter. They cut gems and engrave vehicle identification numbers into cars. They are the key components in compact disc and DVD players. Like so much in the high-tech world, they keep getting cheaper and more powerful. And with at least eight reports in recent weeks of lasers pointed at aircraft cockpits as they approached for landing, their ubiquity could pose a problem for aviation.

A New Jersey man was arrested Tuesday after authorities say he admitted to pointing a laser at a helicopter and a jet. The FBI and Department of Homeland Security sent a memo to law enforcement agencies last month saying they had evidence terrorists have explored using lasers as weapons.

Federal officials have said there is no evidence the recent cases are part of a terrorist plot, and such incidents are nothing new: a Federal Aviation Administration study said "several hundred" similar cases have been reported since the mid 1990s.

Despite their ubiquity, lasers fall under strict government scrutiny.

The Food and Drug Administration regulates lasers and divides them into four classes. Midlevel lasers are the type used in supermarket scanners. Class four lasers pose an eye and skin hazard. Companies that manufacture lasers, integrate lasers into another product or modify lasers must file paperwork on their products with the FDA.

But at least one company, which claims to be an "original equipment manufacturer," sells lasers to anyone with a credit card. A laser advertised as "strong enough to burn holes in a black trash bag" sells for $290.

Lasers like those are "orders of magnitude stronger than what it takes to injure an eye," said William J. Ertle, president of Rockwell Laser Industries, which sells protective eyewear to use with lasers. The fact that such lasers are available online is "scary and concerning," he said.

Jerry Dennis, an FDA consumer safety officer who monitors lasers, said lasers sold by original equipment manufacturers "are strictly for use as components, rather than for use to the general public."

"We are addressing that particular concern as best we can," he said.

But "we don't control the sales; we regulate the products," Dennis said. "When the law was written, that was the extent of the authority given to us."

Wickedlaser.com did not immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment, and a receptionist at the phone number listed in the domain name's registration records said she knew nothing about the company. The site warned that "Lasers are very dangerous and not toys.... Never point a laser at a moving vehicle or airplane. Shining a laser at an airplane is a serious felony in the United States."

Lasers have gone from laboratory rarities to cheap giveaways. The first laser, made in 1960, used an expensive ruby crystal. Now key chains with laser pointers sell for $1.75.

David Banach, 38, the man charged with using a laser to temporarily blind the pilot and co-pilot of a plane flying near the Teterboro, N.J., airport, bought the laser on the internet for $100 to use for his job testing fiber-optic cable, his lawyer said. Banach has said he was using the laser to look at the stars with his 7-year-old daughter.

Some sporting venues and school systems have strict prohibitions on laser pointers. They are banned in Malaysia, at Philadelphia Eagles football games and in many school districts.

Laser light shows are also regulated. Standards are recommended to the FDA by a committee of experts that includes a research optometrist who works for the FAA, as well as representatives from the U.S. Navy, NASA and the International Laser Display Association. Companies that put on laser light shows must get FDA approval; companies that do shows outdoors are also reviewed by the FAA.

Some pilots are asking whether crews can be alerted when a laser has targeted their plane. The FAA study, released in June, found that even the lowest-intensity lasers temporarily impaired the vision of most of 34 pilots it studied in a flight simulator.

The U.S. Navy expects to roll out a detection device early this year for military use. It can be mounted to a plane's bulkhead and will alert a flight crew if their plane is being tracked by a laser. Under development for 2 1/2 years, the laser event recorder uses software algorithms to measure a laser's intensity and compute whether it could hurt a crew's eyes.

Its normally green display panel emits a yellow light if the plane is being tracked by a laser that can't harm vision. If that laser can affect vision, red will appear to warn the pilot to wear protective eye gear or take evasive action. The Navy Air Systems Command has also developed protective eyewear for different laser wavelengths, said James Darcy, a spokesman for the Navy Air Systems Command.

The device is smaller than a box of macaroni and cheese, runs on AA batteries and has a flash memory card that takes a picture of where the laser emanated. It also uses the Global Positioning System to record the plane's location when the laser was detected.

The recorder is expected to cost about $3,000 per unit, though it's unclear whether they'll ever make it into commercial airplanes.

James Engel, president of Optra, which will make the recorders, said he's received no inquiries from commercial airliners. Aside from the Navy, only the Airline Pilots' Security Alliance, an advocacy group, has inquired about the device.

12-30-2004, 11:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Grancey Life's short, gotta hurry... Location: land of pit vipers	This really sounds like some punk kids having fun. If it is, they should be aware that this is a federal offense. If it is terrorism...... __________________ Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

12-30-2004, 11:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	i'm just curious to find out what kind of laser they would be... if it was green and they managed to get it in the cockpit of a plane for more than a glimpse, your looking at atleast $500+.... telescope with lazer attached and properly aligned.... most likely a large laser device which wouldn't be normally on the market... like one of those 4inch wide and 2 feet long box laser things.... due to the lack of market and production of them and knowing that the person is in cleveland should give the FBI a decent chance of getting a lead... the user would also have to have telescoping skills and the ability to align the telescope and laser up.... soo either machining skills or major duck-tape ablilty... i would most likely see this as a stupid prank and nothing serious... __________________ ...AquaFox...

12-30-2004, 11:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	My $150 just-for-fun red laser spreads to the size of a Volkswagon van in 150yds. I can't image what's required to keep a nice tight beam focused on a fast moving target the size of a shoebox (cockpit window) from a distance of 8000ft+. That's crazy. __________________ Blah.

12-30-2004, 11:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	LASERIFFIC! That's what they are. Em. Er. Uh. Laser beams. Yeah. __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

12-30-2004, 11:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	seems needlessly high tech to be terrorists to me- if you can hit it with a laser, then you can bring it down with a .50 cal aimed at the same place- and those are availabe for purchase to anyone with a few grand to spend, with no waiting period ...... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-30-2004, 11:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
Shpoop Curious Location: NJ (but just for college)	wierd. first thought that came to my mind was jennifer lopez's "waiting for tonight" music video. ive never really seen any other green lasers

12-30-2004, 11:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
NegativeNine Tilted	This is no joke. The Death Star Shot green lasers, too, and it blew up a planet.

12-31-2004, 12:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	Found a site a while ago. On it, a guy sold class II lasers at about $200-$300, they were all green, could punch through a plastic cup from across the room, or light something in the night sky. It took a couple of weeks to get orders through, because he had them manufactured in China I believe. At any rate, this article made me think of that rightaway... Prolly a jokester who wanted to try out one of these things? highly dangerous tho edit: oh, and they were actually the size of a regular flashlight, and I imagine just as heavy __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated. Last edited by Nisses; 12-31-2004 at 12:30 AM..

12-31-2004, 12:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
Harshaw Is mad at you. Location: Bored in Sacramento	Probably just someone training for the next major blockbuster motion picture. __________________ This too shall pass.

12-31-2004, 12:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
FngKestrel Junkie	History Channel had something on Modern Marvels about non-lethal weapons like a laser that could be used in CQB that shone green light in the face of the enemy. The high intensity beam was disabling when the person tried to look at it. Maybe the same thing?

12-31-2004, 04:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	Well it was obviously Gordon Freeman.

12-31-2004, 06:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
MXL Tilted Location: Maryland	Tom Clancy wrote about this in one of his books. Two Japanese AWAC were shot with one of these lasers on final approuch, blinding the pilot and causing a crash. In the same book, a Boeing 747 is crashed into the Capitol building. Sound familiar?

12-31-2004, 06:54 AM	#17 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	The Rio Hotel in Las Vegas used to have a very powerful green laser on the top of it's building and would shoot out across the desert sky for miles away from Las Vegas. They stopped after a pilot was "blinded" for a moment by the laser. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-31-2004, 07:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
scott_p_1 Crazy	Maybe they're sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads? __________________ <Insert witty and profound statements here>

12-31-2004, 08:01 AM	#19 (permalink)
rickscales Upright Location: Little Rock	You'd need a laser like this to do that kind of damage. Of course, my link is down because of the recent plane problems.

12-31-2004, 10:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	My son is a commercial airline pilot and this concerns the hell out of me. Wouldn't take much to temporarily blind a pilot. Just a momentary flash at night could blind boths pilots long enough to cause them to not be able to see their controls. A plane is probably no more vulnerable than when on approach. Very easy to track at that time. Nice straight glide slope, consistant speed, pilots very busy. The worst possible time in flight for that to happen.

12-31-2004, 10:59 AM	#24 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	I suspect it's mostly commercial type stuff for store openings and the like. From some articles it seems that this has happened sporadically for a couple of years and the growing use of them for attention getting visuals would coincide with the concerns. I'm leaning away from them being a terrorist attempt to down a plane since it's a far from likely way to succeed. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

12-31-2004, 01:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	For someone to do this on purpose, would require unthinkable accuracy. I can't even imagine what kind of person could do this with eyesight alone, even guided by a telescope or some other magnifying device. Maybe our pilots need to stop taking drugs or something... what do I know? __________________ The most important thing in this world is love.

12-31-2004, 01:31 PM	#26 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Nah where there is smoke there's fire. I could see possibly doing this as a plane landed with a lot of practice and a good spotter. I wonder if there is any way the co-pilot could avert their eyes until they landed just to prevent both pilots from being blinded.

12-31-2004, 08:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
Arroe Insane Location: USA	Perhaps there is technology capable of locking on to aircraft? Similar to what they use for AA weaponry.

01-09-2005, 04:42 PM	#28 (permalink)
rfra3645 Crazy Location: geff il	i heard this laser was bought on ebay.. and the guy said it was his 9 yr old girl.. later fessed up to the cops that it was he himself playing with hs new toy.. this info came from the radio i belive it was fox and friends in the morning on my xm.. they said it is capable of shooting 20 miles... i ahve to admit i would have no reaosn for having one but it would be great fun to paly with for a little while.. i live and the country and it would be fun to play with the manny amish folk around here... hehe anyway this got chalked up as joke gone bad..... __________________ this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation enhance its individual character and individuality and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects. if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

01-10-2005, 04:03 AM	#30 (permalink)
mrklixx President Rick Location: location location	It's that damn Mitch trying to make popcorn again.

01-10-2005, 08:44 PM	#31 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	My first thought when I heard about these things wasn't about where they came from or who was using them, but rather what they were doing. I wonder if somebody's bouncing the lasers off of the cockpit windows and listening in on the conversation or something...