First Cloned Cat Delivered - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

absolutangel · 12-23-2004, 10:41 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science....ap/index.html

I don't know what to think about it yet...

Averett · 12-23-2004, 10:45 AM

You're a rookie, so I'll be easy on your

Please post the entire article and a bit more of a comment. It's hard for people to get an idea of what the article is about with just the link and "I don't know what to think about this" type comments.

Here's the article:

Quote:

First cloned cat sold in the U.S.
Thursday, December 23, 2004 Posted: 10:58 AM EST (1558 GMT)

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The first cloned-to-order pet sold in the United States is named Little Nicky, a 9-week-old kitten delivered to a Texas woman saddened by the loss of a cat she had owned for 17 years.

The kitten cost its owner $50,000 and was created from DNA from her beloved cat, named Nicky, who died last year.

"He is identical. His personality is the same," the owner, Julie, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. Although she agreed to be photographed with her cat, she asked that her last name and hometown not be disclosed because she said she fears being targeted by groups opposed to cloning.

Yet while Little Nicky, who was delivered two weeks ago, frolics in his new home, the kitten's creation and sale has reignited fierce ethical and scientific debate over cloning technology, which is rapidly advancing.

The company that created Little Nicky, Sausalito-based Genetic Savings and Clone, said it hopes by May to have produced the world's first cloned dog -- a much more lucrative market than cats.

While it is based in the San Francisco Bay area, the company's cloning work will be done at its new lab in Madison, Wisconsin.

Commercial interests already are cloning prized cattle for about $20,000 each, and scientists have cloned mice, rabbits, goats, pigs, horses -- and even the endangered banteng, a wild bull that is found mostly in Indonesia.

Several research teams around the world, meanwhile, are racing to create the first cloned monkey.

Aside from human cloning, which has been achieved only at the microscopic embryo stage, no cloning project has fueled more debate than the marketing plans of Genetic Savings and Clone.

"It's morally problematic and a little reprehensible," said David Magnus, co-director of the Center for Biomedical Ethics at Stanford University. "For $50,000, she could have provided homes for a lot of strays."

Animals rights activists complain that new feline production systems aren't needed because thousands of stray cats are euthanized each year for want of homes.

Lou Hawthorne, Genetic Savings and Clone's chief executive, said his company purchases thousands of ovaries from spay clinics across the country. It extracts the eggs, which are combined with the genetic material from the animals to be cloned.

Critics also complain that the technology is available only to the wealthy, that using it to create house pets is frivolous and that customers grieving over lost pets have unrealistic expectations of what they're buying.

In fact, the first cat cloned in 2001 had a different coat from its genetic donor, underscoring that environment and other biological variables make it impossible to exactly duplicate animals.

"The thing that many people do not realize is that the cloned cat is not the same as the original," said Bonnie Beaver, a Texas A&M animal behaviorist who heads the American Veterinary Medical Association, which has no position on the issue. "It has a different personality. It has different life experiences. They want Fluffy, but it's not Fluffy."

Scientists also warn that cloned animals suffer from more health problems than their traditionally bred peers and that cloning is still a very inexact science. It takes many gruesome failures to produce just a single clone.

Genetic Savings and Clone said its new cloning technique, developed by animal cloning pioneer James Robl has improved survival rates, health and appearance. The new technique seeks to condense and transfer only the donor's genetic material to a surrogate's egg instead of an entire cell nucleus.

Between 15 percent and 45 percent of cloned cats born alive die within the first 30 days, Hawthorne said. But he said that range is consistent with natural births, depending on the breed of cat.

Austin, Texas-based ViaGen Inc., which has cloned hundreds of cows, pigs and goats, also is experimenting with the new cloning technique.

"The jury is still out, but the research shows it to be promising," company president Sara Davis said. "The technology is improving all the time."

Genetic Savings and Clone has been behind the creation of at least five cats since 2001, including the first one created.

It hopes to deliver as many as five more clones to customers who have paid the company's $50,000 fee. By the end of next year, it hopes to have cloned as many as 50 cats.

The company has yet to turn a profit.

Here's what I think.... I think people are insane. $50,000 for a CAT? And cloning your cat is pretty creepy. Sure you had it for 17 years, thats a long ass time. But to clone it? Yikes.

absolutangel · 12-23-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Averett

You're a rookie, so I'll be easy on your

Please post the entire article and a bit more of a comment. It's hard for people to get an idea of what the article is about with just the link and "I don't know what to think about this" type comments.

Here's the article:

Here's what I think.... I think people are insane. $50,000 for a CAT? And cloning your cat is pretty creepy. Sure you had it for 17 years, thats a long ass time. But to clone it? Yikes.

I agree with $50,000 for a cat is outrageous. I think some people just have a hard time letting go. What are you going to do when the clone dies?? Buy another one? Kinda reminds me of the movie Godsend, something's got to go wrong.

Thanks for taking it easy on me BTW.

ObieX · 12-23-2004, 11:02 AM

I'd have to agree. The people paying to have their cats done are rather retarded. The cats don't even look like the previous one (different coat patterns etc..). While there is some benefit such as improved cloning techniques, this business is laregely useless. Atleast with cats it is, anyway.. you can get more than you'll know what to do with for free from any animal shelter. When they get into cloning endangered species then it would make more sense, or would be a worthy cause.

the_marq · 12-23-2004, 11:04 AM

$50K for a Cat is no more outrageous than $50K for a car or $1 million for a house.

It's all a matter of perspective and available funds. $50K is about what I make in a year, so clearly paying that much for a cat is freaking ridiculous. However, for this lady is probably much richer than I am, what's the big deal. She is just taking advantage of the resources available to her.

Good for her, I personally will never have a cat (allergies) but I could think of plenty of ways to blow $50K in just such a useless manner. Assuming I had that kind of cake to throw around.

Zeraph · 12-23-2004, 11:09 AM

What would we do without idiots/eccentrics? They fund the technology of tomorrow!

OFKU0 · 12-23-2004, 11:24 AM

She should have stuffed the cat and put it on her coffee table. No food to buy, no clean up and no vet bills and that 50 grand could have gone to a worthwhile charity

Faygo · 12-23-2004, 11:26 AM

Some people have more mone than brains.

thecoldone33 · 12-23-2004, 11:27 AM

Prediction: This cat is not going to last a year. If it does i think it will start having problems. CLoning is not perfect or even close. They should not be trying to sell a cat if they dont know how stable it is in the first place.

Fremen · 12-23-2004, 12:04 PM

You bought a $50,000 cloned kitten??
Yes indeedy!
What's his name?
Copy Cat.
----
You cloned a cat?
Yep!
How does it taste?
Like chicken.
----
Will we be able to bring back the Dodo, or the Passenger pigeon?
I wonder if they can bring back my juniorhigh shop teacher?
Would I recognise him with all his fingers intact?

These are life's important questions.

For some reason, Pet Sematary comes to mind.

Vincentt · 12-23-2004, 12:38 PM

For a cloned cat, that is crazy.

Now, if these were some genetically engineered super cat, and I was rich, I would buy one.

AquaFox · 12-23-2004, 12:52 PM

i wouldn't clone a cat, regardless of how much money i had...... once someone or something is dead... it's dead.... if it was the last of an endangered species, then i would clone it

outdoor · 12-23-2004, 02:26 PM

It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine...

Coppertop · 12-23-2004, 02:46 PM

That'd be awfully nice to have an extra $50k to buy a cat with. I've had many cats over my life and have loved them all, but sheesh. It's a cat - they die, life goes on.

lurkette · 12-23-2004, 02:59 PM

This is absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

First, $50K?!? Do you know how many shelter cats that would support for a year?!

Second, the joke is on her. If she thinks she's going to get an exact replica of her pweshious kiddy widdy she's sadly mistaken. Genetics doesn't work like that - the identical genes may be there, but they need IDENTICAL environmental conditions to turn on and turn off the same experience-driven genes that the original cat had. There may be a lot of similarities, but you're still getting a different critter in terms of health, behavior, personality, the whole 9 yards.

The stupidity of some people is beyond comprehension.

K-Wise · 12-23-2004, 03:19 PM

They'll be a horror movie about killer cloned cats by 2008...wait for it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaFox

i wouldn't clone a cat, regardless of how much money i had...... once someone or something is dead... it's dead.... if it was the last of an endangered species, then i would clone it

If it was the LAST of an endangered species it wouldn't do any good to clone it. Unless you were gonna alter the DNA and make a second clone of the opposite sex...and having 2 cloned animals mate could result in something bad..like an evil killer clone kitten that will rule the world.

Asta!!

Mephisto2 · 12-23-2004, 03:26 PM

I couldn't care less that someone spent $50,000 on a cloned cat. That's their problem.

What I do care about, and what pleases me, are the advances in genetics that this kind of (unfortunate?) commercialization helps fund.

The most losers who spend $50k getting their cats copied, the more likely research will continue. The more likely research continues, the more likely we will begin to see advances in genetic medicene.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeman

You bought a $50,000 cloned kitten??
Yes indeedy!
What's his name?
Copy Cat.

Comedy gold

Mr Mephisto

raeanna74 · 12-23-2004, 03:34 PM

Well I guess her $50,000 could go towards useful research. I recently watched a program on television about cloning and they emphasised the more practical side of the endevour.

Personally I see this as a waste of time. Only good to come of this is the money that could be recycled in the research.

If you loose a pet or anyone it's better for you to learn to accept that. It makes the joy of another pet that much sweeter. Replacing it and getting your hopes up for a twin of your first doesnt' seem that emotionally healthy to me.

The program I saw explained how the cloning methods that have been developed have allowed scientists to put only a portion of DNA into an egg and alter the existing egg but not replace it's DNA. It's resulted in a cow/cows that can produce milk with more human proteins in it. It would eventually replace formula and be so much better for babies than formula can ever be.

I can see uses for cloning but this isn't one of them. I guess almost everything has to find it's market and become commercialized before it advances.

Shpoop · 12-23-2004, 03:43 PM

we had our cat for 23 years (thats older than me)...now our mom thinks that our current dog is the cat reincarnated. its more of a joke, i dont think she really believes it. point is: you dont need to clone your dead cat to keep him near and dear to your heart. it kinda cheapens his memory in my opinion.

Janie · 12-23-2004, 04:03 PM

What an enormous waste of money. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a cat even if I had billions of dollars in spare change. Then again, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on pumping my lips full of collagen either. Where there are stupid people with money to burn, there are companies taking advantage of them.

Fohur2 · 12-23-2004, 06:11 PM

Bah,people are funny....and stupid.

longbough · 12-24-2004, 03:20 PM

Cataclone.

It's her money - she can do whatever she wants with it. If YOU were wealthy enough to throw around $50K you'd probably be getting that car or boat you had your eye on. Remember, Americans look just as stupid to the rest of the world with our sophisticated market for pet food and pet products including toys and clothing.

Stick · 12-24-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpoop

.....point is: you dont need to clone your dead cat to keep him near and dear to your heart. it kinda cheapens his memory in my opinion.

Good call, Shpoop.

It sounds like the cat woman needs therapy, not a clone.

animosity · 12-24-2004, 03:37 PM

It is her money. She should do as she pleases with it.

the end.

filtherton · 12-25-2004, 12:24 AM

I'm with animosity.

longbough · 12-27-2004, 02:59 PM

You mean with longbough...

ShaniFaye · 12-27-2004, 03:02 PM

although I wouldnt spend that kind of money on something like that.....its HER money, she can do with it what she wants

thingstodo · 12-27-2004, 04:26 PM

My question is why? But I can't dispute her right to spend it. But still....why??

12-23-2004, 10:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
absolutangel Upright	First Cloned Cat Delivered http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science....ap/index.html I don't know what to think about it yet...

12-23-2004, 11:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	I'd have to agree. The people paying to have their cats done are rather retarded. The cats don't even look like the previous one (different coat patterns etc..). While there is some benefit such as improved cloning techniques, this business is laregely useless. Atleast with cats it is, anyway.. you can get more than you'll know what to do with for free from any animal shelter. When they get into cloning endangered species then it would make more sense, or would be a worthy cause. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-23-2004, 11:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
the_marq All hail the Mountain King Location: Black Mesa	$50K for a Cat is no more outrageous than $50K for a car or $1 million for a house. It's all a matter of perspective and available funds. $50K is about what I make in a year, so clearly paying that much for a cat is freaking ridiculous. However, for this lady is probably much richer than I am, what's the big deal. She is just taking advantage of the resources available to her. Good for her, I personally will never have a cat (allergies) but I could think of plenty of ways to blow $50K in just such a useless manner. Assuming I had that kind of cake to throw around. __________________ The Truth: Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to. #3 in a series

12-23-2004, 11:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	She should have stuffed the cat and put it on her coffee table. No food to buy, no clean up and no vet bills and that 50 grand could have gone to a worthwhile charity __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

12-23-2004, 12:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	You bought a $50,000 cloned kitten?? Yes indeedy! What's his name? Copy Cat. ---- You cloned a cat? Yep! How does it taste? Like chicken. ---- Will we be able to bring back the Dodo, or the Passenger pigeon? I wonder if they can bring back my juniorhigh shop teacher? Would I recognise him with all his fingers intact? These are life's important questions. For some reason, Pet Sematary comes to mind. __________________ Google

12-23-2004, 11:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	What would we do without idiots/eccentrics? They fund the technology of tomorrow!

12-23-2004, 11:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
Faygo Banned	Some people have more mone than brains.

12-23-2004, 11:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
thecoldone33 Tilted	Prediction: This cat is not going to last a year. If it does i think it will start having problems. CLoning is not perfect or even close. They should not be trying to sell a cat if they dont know how stable it is in the first place.

12-23-2004, 12:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	For a cloned cat, that is crazy. Now, if these were some genetically engineered super cat, and I was rich, I would buy one.

12-23-2004, 12:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	i wouldn't clone a cat, regardless of how much money i had...... once someone or something is dead... it's dead.... if it was the last of an endangered species, then i would clone it __________________ ...AquaFox...

12-23-2004, 02:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
outdoor Tilted	It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine...

12-23-2004, 02:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	That'd be awfully nice to have an extra $50k to buy a cat with. I've had many cats over my life and have loved them all, but sheesh. It's a cat - they die, life goes on.

12-23-2004, 02:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	This is absofuckinglutely ridiculous. First, $50K?!? Do you know how many shelter cats that would support for a year?! Second, the joke is on her. If she thinks she's going to get an exact replica of her pweshious kiddy widdy she's sadly mistaken. Genetics doesn't work like that - the identical genes may be there, but they need IDENTICAL environmental conditions to turn on and turn off the same experience-driven genes that the original cat had. There may be a lot of similarities, but you're still getting a different critter in terms of health, behavior, personality, the whole 9 yards. The stupidity of some people is beyond comprehension. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

12-23-2004, 03:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Well I guess her $50,000 could go towards useful research. I recently watched a program on television about cloning and they emphasised the more practical side of the endevour. Personally I see this as a waste of time. Only good to come of this is the money that could be recycled in the research. If you loose a pet or anyone it's better for you to learn to accept that. It makes the joy of another pet that much sweeter. Replacing it and getting your hopes up for a twin of your first doesnt' seem that emotionally healthy to me. The program I saw explained how the cloning methods that have been developed have allowed scientists to put only a portion of DNA into an egg and alter the existing egg but not replace it's DNA. It's resulted in a cow/cows that can produce milk with more human proteins in it. It would eventually replace formula and be so much better for babies than formula can ever be. I can see uses for cloning but this isn't one of them. I guess almost everything has to find it's market and become commercialized before it advances. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

12-23-2004, 03:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
Shpoop Curious Location: NJ (but just for college)	we had our cat for 23 years (thats older than me)...now our mom thinks that our current dog is the cat reincarnated. its more of a joke, i dont think she really believes it. point is: you dont need to clone your dead cat to keep him near and dear to your heart. it kinda cheapens his memory in my opinion.

12-25-2004, 12:24 AM	#25 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'm with animosity.

12-23-2004, 04:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	What an enormous waste of money. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a cat even if I had billions of dollars in spare change. Then again, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on pumping my lips full of collagen either. Where there are stupid people with money to burn, there are companies taking advantage of them. __________________ cheers to the motherland

12-23-2004, 06:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
Fohur2 Crazy	Bah,people are funny....and stupid.

12-24-2004, 03:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
longbough Soylent Green is people. Location: Northern California	Cataclone. It's her money - she can do whatever she wants with it. If YOU were wealthy enough to throw around $50K you'd probably be getting that car or boat you had your eye on. Remember, Americans look just as stupid to the rest of the world with our sophisticated market for pet food and pet products including toys and clothing.

12-24-2004, 03:37 PM	#24 (permalink)
animosity on fire Location: Atlanta, GA	It is her money. She should do as she pleases with it. the end.

12-27-2004, 02:59 PM	#26 (permalink)
longbough Soylent Green is people. Location: Northern California	You mean with longbough...

12-27-2004, 03:02 PM	#27 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	although I wouldnt spend that kind of money on something like that.....its HER money, she can do with it what she wants __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

12-27-2004, 04:26 PM	#28 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	My question is why? But I can't dispute her right to spend it. But still....why?? __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.