Absolutely should have been fired, and I'll go a step further to say he should never ever teach anywhere again. I never had a teacher tell me their religious and/or the political beliefs. They taught me what they were supposed to.

For shits and giggles I see that "our" poll has:
Yes............40 votes
No...............9 votes
Who cares?...2 votes

Whereas the Denizens of the fair city of Omaha have voted:
Yes............2,458 votes
No.............1,935 votes
Who cares?....207 votes

The OWH poll has this thing a lot closer than what I'm comfortable with.

I wouldn't put to much faith in a poll on this board giving anything close to a fair percentage. While I also think he should have been fired, I think we all know that religion and conservative politics are for the most part shunned on these boards.

Yes you can if...

1) The students repeatedly complained about it
2) He was told repeatedly to stop
3) He tried to convince you that failure to support NASCAR would result in eternal damnation
4) There were other students in the class who supported FORMULA 1 and felt intimidated

Mr Mephisto

As an interesting aside, the Holy See does not object to the teaching of evolution at all. The Vatican has decreed that evolution does occur and that it is simply God's will. I can't see anything wrong with that. Indeed, it seems a very logical and elegant response to the overwhelming evidence (ie, proof) that evolution does occur. They have stated that humans came about due to an "ontological leap", hence describing the emergence of humanity and their spiritual consciousness.

I'm not pointing fingers, but it's mostly devout evangelical and fundamentalist Christians (mostly Protestant) that rail against evolution occuring at all.


Mr Mephisto

Damn, beat me to it.

Another thing I thought of. One of my high school math teachers was (is) a diehard Republican. I am pretty liberal for the most part, but a good friend of mine is a devout socialist (he's half Swedish, so it's not his fault :p ). So this math teacher made a point of making fun of my friend frequently - but not in class. He called him a "pinko," but it was after school, where we were on our time talking to him. At any time, we could have left, had we wanted to. That's one of the big problems I have with this other guy using class time; the kids have no choice but to listen to his rhetoric.

In other news,tune in as OFKU0 goes for his 15 minutes by trying to glue a goat to a tree on city property without a permit. Video at 11.

Sums it up for me and I'm areligious.

What a nutjob. I have problems with people who impose their beliefs. I hated highschool, there is no way I would have sat through 10+ mins every class listening to this guy. For some reason I believe if he taught at my school he would have "666" all over his desk by the end of the day :S

And they have had that on them for quite some time. It is nothing new. But people sure like to get their "separation of church and state" bowels in an uproar over shit like this guy getting canned. This whole separation of church and state thing is something that I think the founders of our country would have thought over and perhaps worded differently had they seen what has become of it. In fact I'd wager had they known how lawyers, The ACLU, special interest groups and others have spent time wiping their asses with the constitution, they may have done a lot of things differently.

Edit: And they guy needed fired. Because as others have pointed out, he was not doing his job. The religion stuff has nothing to do with it.

The man needed to be fired as he wasn't doing his job, and he ignored his supervisor's attempts to rectify the situation. While there is a religious angle to the question, it isn't relevant to the heart of the matter. Hopefully he will be able to find a parochial school where his skills can be better applied.

what's really funny is that this guy went to school in my hometown, I've had a few friends who went to Bethel

well, I put in 25 votes on the omaha website, it seems they don't prevent you from voting multiple times, I imagine some religious nut has likely done what I just did, so I don't feel bad at all

Heheh! Yeah, that might work. But it won't help them on an interview with my editor. He's real hard ass about writing skills.

Would you want some dude preaching the Koran to your children at school? Probably not. There is no place for religion in public schools with the religious diversity of the students.

I don't really care that religion was the topic of his misconduct.

He was a math teacher. His job was to teach math. Doing anything other than teaching math is not doing his job and thus grounds for termination. I mean, if a pizza delivery guy jerked off in the bathroom all day instead of delivering pizzas, you'd fire him too, right?

A pizza guy jerking off in the bathroom gets a verbal warning. If he doesn't wash his hands afterward, it is a written warning. Jerking off in the kitchen is a firing offense.

I know its been said before here, but realy I dont have a problem with you being religious and being proud of that but I do have a problem with someone trying to cram it down my throat.

There aernt enough good teachers out there, why not concentrate on that instead of trying to be a preacher. :confused:

13 "no" votes and not one has come out to defend the no crowd's view. I don't need to add anything because anyone who has seen any remotely political or religious post of mine knows exactly where I stand on this.

I agree with this totally. Would people complain about seperation of chuch and state if it weren't a christian based faith? What if he was speaking of his Buddist or Wiccan beleifs?

I think the newspaper poll would be different in that case.

you want preaching? Go to church. Churches aren't just on Sunday.

Ditto.

He should have been fired a long time ago if he was warned repeatedly in the past.

I also yell "Fuck Jesus" whenever someone starts rambling on about some religion bullshit to me.

hahaha "Fuck jesus christ" I should have thought of that earlier, considering I graduated from a Catholic high school 2 years ago(I'm an athiest and a bit of a nihilist). but I'm gonna have to try that on my catholic nutjob friends :D .

I don't understand this at all. Why was there even a question about him getting fired?

I am relieved to see, from the poll, that the people of TFP have a healthy dose of common sense. As for the Omaha poll - well let's just say that I find it quite on the unsettling side, and leave it at that.

Perhaps their lack of anonymity would tarnish their reputations on this board too much by openly disagreeing with a popular opinion...

You forgot:

5) The constitution of the United States expressly forbade him to do so.

I say yes. Not because it bothers me, but because it is the law. Just because you do not agree with a law doesn't mean you get to break it. Furthermore, he obviously wasn't a very good teacher if he couldnt stay on the subject at hand. I hate teachers that go off on tangents. They should all be fired for wasting my time.

I have not read EVERY post in this thread but wanted to make some comment. I will try to come again later and read more thoroughly.

I grew up strict Baptist. I also attended a strict Baptist college and have a Bachelors of Science in Education. I could not teach in public school for many reasons most of which are not religious.

I am disappointed with this teacher and how he treated his position. I see nothing wrong with talking about your beliefs or praying with students one on one. Doing it with the whole class does not allow those students who have a problem with it to 'opt out'. By pushing his religion and turning people off by doing so he makes it harder for any other teacher of any religion to be the example their religion would dictate and to speak to ANYONE who wanted to hear about it. It makes it harder for a student who IS exploring their own religious beliefs to approach a teacher about that subject. There's nothing wrong with discussing it with a student who wants to know about it or who believes the same. He made that less of an option for students and teachers alike to share in a positive voluntary way.

I had a teacher in 5th grade who had similar beliefs to mine. She did NOT push them. However when (as someone else mentioned) what she was currently teaching conflicted with her beliefs, then she briefly explained her position. She taught it as an option, not as fact when she discussed evolution she also discussed creation as a theory. It IS important for students to learn what a large portion of the world population believes. It is important that they learn to respect other beliefs and are free to make the choice themselves what to believe.

The article sounds as though he was pushing his beliefs as fact and not teaching what he was being paid to teach. He did not use discretion or show respect - a poor example of his religion and beliefs.

I've had experiences with teachers asserting their religious beliefs in the classroom. For the students that disagree with the teachers opinions, it can (and did for me : ) ) cause respect issues with the teacher, and discussing these things in the classroom takes away from the reason (as stated by law) students are in school: to learn. One of the fundamental freedoms granted by the constitution is the freedom of speech, but in a proffessional environment, it is not appropriate to press one's beliefs on others. I think it is reasonable that the teacher was fired, especially since there were multiple complaints and reprimands, and he had been warned before hand that his job was on the line.

Damn Mephisto you raced me to it.

Don't forget harassing you in the halls to watch Nascar with him to save your soul.

Edit:I did not read the rest of post before replying

"You're either for him or against him"

If I were a high scool student and my math teacher said such a thing, I would feel attacked because, frankly, I am not for "him" and haven't ever been. This type of unsolicited advocacy of personal religious beliefs creates a hostile environment in the classroom. Despite teenagers' notorious rebelliousness and defiance, they are still young and impressionable, and are subject to fears about approval. Not being the direct type, I might have felt some sort of pressure to fake a christian outlook to try and pass. Either that or I would have responded by being sullenly resentful and sneaky. It might well have increased my feelings of being "different" and an outcast. Or perhaps I would have developed an aversion to math. High school students have enough problems already without having to deal with a religious perspective in their math class. Fervent christians can be surprisingly insensitive to the feelings of others when it comes to matters of faith, since their church sanctions and encourages proselytizing to an extreme degree. My experiences with christians (including a good deal of historical reading and research) have been overwhelmingly that christianity is not, at its root, a religion that teaches love. I believe the quote above illustrates that.

If I didn't know this guy was an insubordinate asshat, and just read the poll question without any sort of context, I might vote "No". This teacher wasn't fired for discussing his beliefs in class, and I don't think a teacher should be fired for discussing beliefs in class. I do think he should have been fired, but that's not exactly what the poll is actually asking.

THIS is why I feel he should have been fired. NOT because he had religous beliefs or was willing to talk about them. But because he gave non-christians one MORE example of an intolerant, uncooperative Christian bully.

Fervent might not be the right kind of term. I know some very gracious fervent Christians who wouldn't persist in pushing their faith after your first objection. They believe that demonstrating their faith by an example of a good, gracious, respectful individual is a better way of evangelizing. Christian FANATIC may be more what you're looking for.

Raeanna74, I mean this in the most respectful way, but from my perspective your views seem to exemplify what I think of as the "new christian." I work with an entire office full of these people. They are tolerant, respectful, decent people who don't push their views on others and politely ask if they may pray for me when I'm having a hard time. I have no problem with this type of people - why should I? They are very kind and decent, and I show them the same respect. But they seem ignorant of the history of the christian church and believe that their religion is simply about loving others rather than the lengthy and ugly history I am aware of. My stance is that I could never particiate in a religion that has such a history, and I won't elaborate on it here because I don't want to offend. Perhaps the term "fanatic" is more appropriate for what I'm thinking of, but there seem to be an awful lot of them around, both now and in the past.

this is a tough question for me. i am a devout Christian, but also very grounded. part of Christianity is about being 'the light on the hill' and trying your very hardest to spread God. But, conversely, it is unchristian to impose your will on others. I cannot tell here whether he is imposing his will on the children, or making sure that the word of God can be spread to them if they so desire. Part of me says: good for him! go God! but then again, it is not suitable in all scenarios, and i think this is one of them. I voted no because i do not think he should be fired for discussing Christianity in the classroom. Face it, Christianity can be a very life-changing and eye-opening experience that should be offered to everyone if and when they want it. i think he should be fired for not obeying his bosses, and especially because the students themselves complained. that should be message enough, leave the spreading to the church and parents...and if you truly want to spread the word of God (and i extremely admire those who do), do it in a church or an out-of-classroom context.

and now something to add after reading the arguments going on here. Christianity has had some dark history - no doubt. It went through times of fanaticals and murderers...and i will not try to make any justifications for it. The crusades are an example, so is the KKK, and there are many more. but these are not Christianity, these are sick fucks' bastardizations of it. That does not mean that Christianity is not a religion based on love, it only means that along the way, many people lost sight of the fact that it is. Islam is going through somewhat of a same phase right now. there are fanatics and fundamentalists that are unwilling to accept other people's views, unwilling to adapt, and willing to kill. But anyone, especially any Muslim, will tell you that they do not represent Islam, and that Islam emphasizes peace above all else.