Nisses

Fair enough, I'll edit the message if you want Just that in my post later on, I elaborated on what I meant, which included both your points the way I intended them.

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flamingdog

Why does it need to be pointed out? So you can bestow the benefit of your worldy-wisdom on me? Well thank-you Mr Gondath, sir. I'll try much harder in future. What do you care even if I am too lazy to make sure my your and you're are contextually correct? Maybe I've got better things to think about... and is it going to wreck your day?

Pointing out factual or logical errors in my posts is one thing, 'correcting' my spelling is not only disrespectful, it's fucking condescending. Why even bring it up? What if it's a typo? Everyone misspells sometimes, it's part of being human.

If a post is so horribly spelled that you can't bring yourself to reply, then hit 'back' and move on with your day. If all you can say is 'woah, fucked up spelling dude,' then you're not really contributing at the level you should be, now, are you?

If you went through and catalogued every spelling mistake on the TFP, I think you'd be shocked. I spot them in every other post more or less. Do I highlight them? Of course I don't. I make them myself, it's only because I go through and check how my shit reads that I pick up a majority of them.

That this somehow contributes to the 'degradation of language' is a faulty argument too, since it presupposes that language is somehow formalised and set in stone. If that were true, we'd still be speaking and writing in middle english, we'd still be using Johnson's dictionary as the basis of our language.

Who decides what is the correct spelling of a completely new word?

For an open-minded, intellectual community, you sure do get some pomposity thrown around here. Sheesh.

Yakk

The spell checker and grammer checker helps. Especially if your skills are lacking. Mine are far from perfect, especially on the seplling front.

If you are missing a leg, I expect you to have an artificial leg, and do what you can to not inconvienience others. The same holds true of dyslexia.

Write up your posts elsewhere. Run them through spell checkers and grammer checkers. Toss a disclaimer about your dyslexia in your .sig.

From your typing, it will be obvious you are either lazy, a child, or dyslexic. You can't be anonymous about it, so there isn't much point in not admitting it.

He would encounter far worse patents at the patent office!

Exactly. It is also a wonderful example of how a spelling/grammer checker isn't perfect (it is "so I have a spell checker."), but Office misses that detail. It helps, but isn't perfect.

Both Grammer checking and Spell Checking is needed. It will catch many 'spelling' mistakes that are misspellings.

Another good idea is google searching. It will give you the correct spelling of the word, and the context in which it is used. Admittedly, this is more useful if your problems are less severe.

True, but "apologies for any bad grammer and spelling above -- I have problems with dyslexia" in the signature works on anyone who is aware of dyslexia, not only those who are skilled enough to recognize it.

Personally, when I bother to correct spelling and/or grammer, it is because I almost didn't bother reading it. Malformatted text, badly formed sentances and unrecognizeable words will, after a point, make me not read your post. And I'm not the only one.

And you know what? My reading speed is about 10 times slower on words misspelled like that than it is on well writen prose. This is a cost I'm reluctant to pay. Plus, there is loads of context there, and the misspellings are more patterned than you'd like tho think.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Lebell

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flamingdog

I only point it out to bolster the point I was making earlier, namely spelling isn't important.

Though, that said, is it not ironic that you misspelled grammar consistently in that post?

ShaniFaye

I was going to comment on that too flamingdog but then I got extra aggravated by his statement (which is also mispelled) and decided that if a person thinks a one legged person is inconveniencing them then they really wont get the point anyway.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Strange Famous

I have a slight difficulty typing and writing... I can spell words, but I often type or write a word that sounds alike, or miss letters. When I type especially, it just seems sometimes my mind works faster than I can hit the keys and I make a lot of mistakes. I dont know if that is a possibility of dyslexia or not....

edit - no, that was not my attempt at low irony!!!! mispellings now corrected!

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hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
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Yakk

But it is. Badly spelled words/formatted text increases the amount of work other people have to do to read your post. It does matter.

Thanks. =)

Grammar is actually a really problematic word for me, my apologies about that. As I've mentioned, my spelling is simply horrible. Failed it in Grade 5, have gtten marginally better at it since!

*sigh*, sometimes I hate myself.

Someone who is missing a leg, and doesn't like how artificial legs look, so refuses to use one. That isn't very reasonable, is it?

Expecting others to help you walk around, simply because you don't like the look of an artificial leg, would be inconveniencing others.

A Dyslexic should do their best to compensate for their disability, before expecting others to compensate. That is all I am saying.

One way to compensate would be to mention your dyslexia in your signature, so reads understand you aren't being lazy, but rather are probably putting more effort into your post than every other poster does.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

flamingdog

I once interviewed a guy on crutches. He was on crutches because his left leg was missing above the knee, and by the brief account he gave, had been for some time. He did not use a prosthetic, nor was he reliant on other people for his mobility. In fact, he was more mobile with his crutches than some people with no impairments. I don't know why he didn't use a prosthetic, nor did I ask... the story was not about his leg.

Maybe an artificial limb would make him self-conscious, like his disability was a dirty secret. Maybe he felt physical discomfort in wearing one. But on your analysis, he would have to swallow his pride and wear one anyway, even though he would be uncomfortable, just because you think it's 'unreasonable' for him not to.

Fact is, he didn't. And that's it. Even if he had four midgets underneath him, holding him aloft and carrying him everywhere, well, if that's how he copes with his disability (not accounting for the morality of midget slavery, of course), who am I to argue?

Every situation is different. Everyone has different people and systems they can rely on, disabled or not. I have had friends carry crutches, bags, push wheelchairs and all sorts for me in the past, and I will always be grateful to them. I am fortunate that now, I am completely self-sufficient, though had it not been for the intervention of surgeons in my early teens, that might not have been the case.

In the same way, my mother relies on her husband to a fairly extreme degree, and you know what? He does it all, without complaint, without hesitation, because he loves her. Life is about coping with what you get, not apologising for it. If you're lucky enough to have someone who loves you for you, not your disabilities or lack thereof, then you really can say you're blessed.

Compensating for a disability is one thing, but what you suggest sounds more to me like apologising for it. I've known a lot of disabled people, and I have a disability myself. One of the most important things to me and to those I've known is preserving dignity, just the same as it is for you. Who wants to have to keep pointing out that they can't spell very well, can't run, need to rest every few yards? That's right, nobody. It's embarrassing. And if you want to feel like you're among friends, you don't want to think they're going to point it out all the time.

You apologised for misspelling 'grammar' after I pointed it out. Do you see what I'm saying? I didn't want you to apologise for it, I was actually hoping you would tell me to fuck off. You had every right. I was making a point, not attacking you, and I'm sorry about that.

Is it stupid to be embarrassed by something you can't change? Why are you embarrassed about having consistent problems with spelling 'grammar'? In most other regards, I would expect a dyslexic to cope with their disability, but unfortunately, on an internet message board, their difficulties with writing are going to have the spotlight thrown on them, just as my difficulties with walking or running would be highlighted if I chose to join an athletics club.

Edit: It strikes me that if you're interested in contributing to a discussion, sniping at someone's spelling is simply taking the level of debate down to the playground. And I don't accept that bad spelling makes a post difficult to read. I didn't have any trouble reading yours, and yours had several mistakes. There was a functional dyslexic on a board I used to post on, and though his words were frequently mixed up and misspelled, his meanings were always clear. As long as the meaning is clear, just ignore the spelling mistakes. If the meaning is not clear, ask for the post to be rephrased, or read in context and discern it for yourself. If a post is so badly spelled that you simply cannot read it, even after it's rephrased, (and in nearly two years of TFP membership, I've never seen a post I couldn't understand, even if only in context), just hit back! Forget about it! It's that simple!

You have no right to start jumping in and editing my shit. It's disrespectful. It's condescending. It's outright RUDE. Yet some of you seem to think you can claim that privilege. What basis do you have for that? Your own perfect spelling?

A bit of compassion and understanding, without expecting everyone to wear a sign around their neck outlining their various medical, psychological and personality 'flaws' is apparently too much to ask for.

TopRamen66

You know what, that thought has never crossed my mind before. I feel so guilty!

rfra3645

wow i have a identical twin in england......

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this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

rfra3645

Props to flamingdog


here here

brother...

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this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

ShaniFaye

wow what an awesome post flamingdog!!!!!

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

analog

With the AOL chat rooms and IM's, the stupid abbreviations for common words... r, u, b4, etc., and the general lack of punctuation found in many people's writing styles, it is most likely that a healthy 80% - 90% of what is complained about is people whose spelling/grammar abilities are not impaired, but rather they are of the group who don't care if they spell correctly or use punctuation. They are used to informal chatting and IM'ing, and not making cohesive sentences about broad topics.

So, let's also bear in mind that some people simply never learned or couldn't learn how to spell properly, or do not use english as their primary language. Let's even break that down to 40% of the total "don't type/spell/puncuate" crowd. Hell, I'd even go 50%.

The problem with assuming people are insensitive is that you have no idea how few people know what the hell dyslexia is, how it affects the mind, and how it can affect a person's ability to type coherently. Even assuming that 30% of the total of the "garbled" posts are from dyslexics, it is very likely that a solid 80 or 90% of those posting "how about some punctuation, grammar, or spell check" HAVE NO CLUE WHAT DYSLEXIA IS. Those who DO know what it is may not know it even manifests itself in the typing of a persn with it. Of those that do, which is an even smaller number, are likely not complaing about the way the post is written.

The problem is people don't know, and the cause of the "bad grammar/punctuation/spelling" is WAY more often than not the chat people who don't care how they type, or people who don't do english all that well to begin with, foreign to the US or not. I understand that there are many, many people with dyslexia... but the patterns we see are overhwlemingly that of the "chat room" people.

Now, as a Mod...

MOD NOTE: **IF YOU THINK THERE IS A MAJOR DISSERVICE BEING DONE TO THE BOARD BY A PERSON WITH HORRIBLE SPELLING/GRAMMAR/PUNCUATION, STOP AND THINK A MOMENT. WE ARE AN INTERNATIONAL BOARD WITH PEOPLE FROM MANY PLACES WHO MAY NOT DO ENGLISH AS WELL AS YOU DO. WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH ISSUES THAT MAKE POSTING DIFFICULT OR NEAR IMPOSSIBLE... BUT THEY MAY BE TRYING ANYWAY.

PLEASE BEAR ALL THAT IN MIND- AND IF YOU MUST GRIPE, GRIPE TO A MOD BY REPORTING IT- DO NOT HAVE OUT YOUR PERSONAL ENGLISH LESSONS ON THE BOARDS.

THANK YOU.

- analog.

Slavakion

I learned a couple of new ones. Apparently, 143 means I love you. One letter, four letters, three letters. The other one was 224 which was something forever. Are we at the point where we can't even use letters?

flstf

That's a big 10, 4, big buddy.

Redlemon

I beleive that there are (rare) times that correcting spelling is helpful. For instance, there was a user posting a question about "post pardom" depression. He even mentioned that he had searched for information on the topic but didn't find anything useful. Letting him know that the word is spelled "postpartum" allows him to do some more searching on his own.

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flamingdog

Red, I'd say that came under a factual correction.

Yakk

Why would I tell you to 'fuck off' for correcting me? It wasn't phrased as an attack, it was you pointing out I'm imperfect.

If you where trying to get a rise out of me, well then you deserve the 'fuck off'. I was here to talk about this issue, not get into a swearing match.

Now you are attributing embarrassment to me. I'm not shamed by my lack of spelling skills. I work to compensate for them, to minimize the inconvenience I cause to others with them. When I fail at this, I fail -- I'm not perfect. My lack of perfection isn't an embarrasing problem. =p

Being sorry for not being perfect is not the same as being embarrassed for not being perfect. There isn't anything to be ashamed about.

Good for him -- he compensated for his disability effectively. An artificial leg, crutches -- same difference, the precice means don't matter.

As an aside, when your leg is missing above the knee, artifical legs really suck, and don't work all that well.

Apologising for it when it causes others inconvenience sounds like the decent thing to do to me. While it isn't your fault, it is your responsability.

Getting upset at people because they treat you as if you aren't disabled, when you won't even tell them you are, isn't being very responsible.

Actually, the morality of midget slavery is precicely the point. If he chose to do that route, and felt those midgets where obligated to help him simply because he didn't want to use crutches, an artificial leg, or other means of compensation that doesn't harm others, he was being a git.

To a lesser degree, asking others (especially random others) to compensate for your own responsibilities, when you could deal with them yourself, is the same thing on a smaller scale.

Sure, you could be an asshole about correcting someone's spelling. Quite possibly the thread started with talking about someone being an asshole -- but, lacking specific links, I'm talking about the general morality of being on a message board as a dyslexic.

Then I did good. Thanks for confirming it. =)

And, if after spending 10-30 minutes of effort decyphering a post, you finally work out what it says, should you point out to the original poster that they should have posted more clearly? And, perhaps, reposting the text you decyphered so others don't have to do the same work you did?

See, I don't like noise. I like signal. People generating noise are being anti-social and harming the forum they are in.

Not putting effort into your composition does harm to the forum you are posting in. Taking up the forum's bandwidth (both in screen-space and bits) with badly formatted, difficult to read posts that you placed next to no effort towards composing is something I actually do find rude. 100+ character run-on sentances I judge to be marginally polite...

A dyslexic who puts lots of effort into a post (which many dyslexics do!) is contributing. On the other hand, some random non-dyslexic git who just can't be bothered to form paragraphs because they are lazy, and don't think the readership is worth the effort, isn't contributing.

At the same time, mindlessly attacking people's spelling and grammar generates noise, and is also a stupid, anti-social act.

I understand what you communicate, to the best of my ability. I feel compassion for those who are harmed. I don't read minds. I help the less fortunate out of both charity, practicality and love -- not out of any obligation.

If you want me to compensate for your 'flaws', you have to tell me about them. If you don't want me to compensate for them, simply don't tell me about them, and I'll treat you like I would J Random Person.

If you have a problem with dyslexia, your inability to spell and form proper english sentances will probably be obvious to people who read your posts. They will think that your first language isn't English, or you don't consider grammar/spelling important, or you are dyslexic.

Of those 3 possible categories, one of them is rude and impolite. The other two are quite acceptable imperfections. Those in the 2nd category -- the lazy ones -- are being rude. Letting people know you are dyslexic (or, your native language isn't English) is simply explaining you aren't being rude, even if it appears (on the surface) that you are.

All I am asking is for people with disabilities to do a reasonable amount of effort to compensate for them, before they expect others to do the same.

Disabilities are flaws, not sins. Saying you have a disablity isn't saying you are a bad person in any way.

edit: seppling mistake.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Mango

DYSLEXICS UNTIE!!!!!!!

silent_jay

Thanks Shani for opening my eyes to this

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ShaniFaye

Since dyslexia is the most common learning disability with 17.5% of school kids having it I am really really surprised that so many of you really hadnt considered it!!

Its cool educating people heheheheh

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!