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-   -   The most disgusting thing I've ever heard. (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/77711-most-disgusting-thing-ive-ever-heard.html)

Gilda 07-05-2005 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irateplatypus
aborted in a civil manner? :eek: there is no such thing from the child's point of view. scotch or scalpel... it's the same result.

someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case.
Drinking it to death poses risks not associated with a clinical abortion, mainly that of not killing it but instead inflicting it at birth with fetal alcohol syndrome. If a woman chooses to have a child, she has the moral obligation both before and after birth, to keep that child safe and healthy.

irateplatypus 07-05-2005 09:38 PM
gilda,

if you'll read the post i cited, you'll see that wasn't the argument i was countering. the entire point was centered around "drinking a pregancy to death" while you were speaking of a different set of circumstances (it surviving the ordeal).

even so, i am deeply troubled by the rationale you employed in that scenario as well.

alansmithee 07-05-2005 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billege
Well, hey, this is what happens when society isn't ready to control who has kids and isn't.

I mean, you need a driver's license...

Really, people, I'm disgusted as you are, but I see the solution differently.
We have enough space in the US to allow random population expansion. If we were Chinese or Indian, we'd have much different opinions on birth rates, for sure.

Societies advance, and they change. We realize birth control is fucked up and out of control. Any one with a working dick and pussy to put together can have kids. Everyone is disgusted by the situation, but no one is willing to say "you know what? you obviously can't handle this. When you've proven you can, you can have control back." to society.

I mean, fer cryin out loud, you END the whole abortion debate if you decide: "you know what, you're stupid, you're NOT allowed to get pregnant (for women), nor are you allowed to GET someone pregnent (for men)."

Now, I know, I know, giving the state that level of control over a human's body is a new, fucked up, idea. But, listen, you've got 50 percent of America thinking abortion is cool. You've got 50 thinking it's the worse thing ever. If you're not getting someone, or getting pregnant, before proving your worth, then that debate is over.

I mean, my wife and I are scared to have kids. We make $60k+ a year, we live in a brand-three week old-new 3 bedroom 1588sq foot home. We drive two 2004 model year vehicles. You'd think we'd feel we can care properly for a child. But, I wonder about that! We're both intimidated as hell by the responsibility kids present. When we have a child, we HOPE we'll care for it well. But, will we? God I hope so.

I'd hope other parents care for thier children as well, but it's obvious that's not happening. What's scarey, is that we allow it to happen, and we'll continue to allow it to happen until society as a whole sets down some motherfucking RULES for who can have kids, and how they're cared for, and enforces them.

Obviously, people can't handle it.

We take away kids toys when they can't care for them...
I've actually thought this for a long time. I've always thought that if someone gets a second abortion, they should automatically get tubal ligation (actually, i would say this should be after the first instance not caused by rape or threatening the life of the mother, but that might be too far for some people). And if a guy gets 2+ women pregnant and is not able to take care of the children, vasectomy. People need to have consequences for reckless behavior, and they need to have ways to protect society from their recklessness.

Zeraph 07-05-2005 10:42 PM
That is pretty disgusting and outrageous. I'm not sure what the problem is, they just don't take life seriously, theirs or their progeny.

Zeraph 07-05-2005 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmithee
I've actually thought this for a long time. I've always thought that if someone gets a second abortion, they should automatically get tubal ligation (actually, i would say this should be after the first instance not caused by rape or threatening the life of the mother, but that might be too far for some people). And if a guy gets 2+ women pregnant and is not able to take care of the children, vasectomy. People need to have consequences for reckless behavior, and they need to have ways to protect society from their recklessness.
Yeah sterilization...with some rusty scissors.

dlish 07-05-2005 10:58 PM
im hoping if she is going to drink it to death that she contemplate going ahead with it and drinking herself to death at the same time. i bet she doesnt.

such selfishness i have never heard

flamingdog 07-06-2005 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltert
kind of an ironic situation there.

she doesnt want a baby due to the interference it will have on her life.

she tries drinking it to death...but if the baby lives, the defective baby she's created will likely plague her for much longer than she bargained for.
:hmm:

DEFECTIVE baby?? Do you realise how frankly fascist that sounds? Some of you people talking about the 'societal' cost of this unfortunate child, should it survive this ordeal (and I agree with Strange Famous' post from sometime last year that this second-hand report seems unlikely to be true) make me think you're stoking the ovens for us 'defective' human beings even as I type. This, incidentally, is quite apart from the debate at hand, which brings me right around to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by irateplatypus
aborted in a civil manner? :eek: there is no such thing from the child's point of view. scotch or scalpel... it's the same result.

someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case.
Exactly.

Someone's going to sit on me for this I'm sure, but this child's prospects are pretty fucked either way. It's death or 'defective'. So what difference does it make? How can you villify her in one breath, then say she should abort the child in the next? That makes no sense whatsoever.

And sure, the woman's a shitstain. I can open a window and hurl a brick with a 90 per cent chance of hitting another shitstain. Guess what folks? World's full of em.

By the way, this is an old thread... VitaminH, did you ever find out how this turned out/is turning out?

kutulu 07-06-2005 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmithee
I've actually thought this for a long time. I've always thought that if someone gets a second abortion, they should automatically get tubal ligation (actually, i would say this should be after the first instance not caused by rape or threatening the life of the mother, but that might be too far for some people). And if a guy gets 2+ women pregnant and is not able to take care of the children, vasectomy. People need to have consequences for reckless behavior, and they need to have ways to protect society from their recklessness.
Yes, let's all welcome our facist overlords.

Gilda 07-06-2005 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irateplatypus
gilda,

if you'll read the post i cited, you'll see that wasn't the argument i was countering. the entire point was centered around "drinking a pregancy to death" while you were speaking of a different set of circumstances (it surviving the ordeal).
I responded directly to this statement: "someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case."

Quote:
even so, i am deeply troubled by the rationale you employed in that scenario as well.
How so? I see two moral options for the pregnant girl. First, she can get an abortion in the first trimester, which is legal, safe, and very effective. If for some reason she doesn't believe in abortion, and has a moral or religious objection to it, I fully respect that stand, and she should act according to that conviction and carry the child to term. Once the choice has been made to carry the child to term, she has the obligation to care for this child and keep it safe and healthy. After it has been born, she then has the choice of keeping and raising it or giving it up for adoption.

Two good options, which allow for her to act according to her own moral code regarding abortion. Attempting to drink it to death is neither. It is an attempt not to take responsibility for her actions by neither aborting the fetus nor taking good pre-natal care. There is a very good possibility that the pregnancy will come to term, and if it does, that the child will have been harmed directly as a result of her choice to drink heavily during pregnancy. This isn't a judgement about the worthiness of the child involved, but about the morality of a parent intentionally inflicting harm on a child.

We all have defects. I'm very near-sighted. While I won't love my children any less if they are near-sighted, it isn't something I would intentionally inflict on them if I had a choice. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a much more serious condition, and just as I wouldn't love a child with this condition any less, I also wouldn't intentionally inflict it upon an otherwise healthy child. Choosing actions that result in direct harm to a child is reprehensible.

This is a judgement regarding the woman in this case, not the child.

SirLance 07-06-2005 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
But police Sgt. Lester Fairbanks disagreed, saying he arrested Tourigny to protect her fetus. "She can pickle herself all she wants, but that child doesn't have the opportunity to decide whether it's going to be retarded or not,'' he said. "Somebody has to have responsibility for her unborn child.''

Representatives of the New Hampshire ACLU said Wednesday that Tourigny and Tourigny alone should bear that responsibility.
Right, so when she has the kid with FAS and she can't support it, the taxpayers get to step in. There are private acts with public consequences.

Not to mention the damage this girl will do to herself. She needs help, and a hell of a lot of counseling.

ChistledStone 07-06-2005 05:17 PM
Although I'm not religious, I just hope that the child is taken up to heaven (or at least some good place) and that the mother should realise that not only did she condemn herself in others eyes and her own, but also she is setting a example that could lead to other foolish people following this act.

Also she will spiral into a trail of self-destruction. Baby -> Don't want -> Drink it -> Become alcoholic (due to the fact that she could think that drinking solves her problems and bla bla bla, not really if that would have but could) -> Either ending up with a dead baby literary murdered by her, or a child that will never have a proper life -> Anger from others and herself including her boyfriend... And so forth.

lukethebandgeek 07-07-2005 06:36 PM
Abstinence only education at its best.

Telluride 07-07-2005 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if this is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard, but it's right up there near the top. Most of the other truly disgusting things I've heard also involve cruelty/injury to young children.

Xell101 07-08-2005 04:50 AM
This is a bad idea on so many levels it's absurd. Apparently she thinks this will be easy. I get the feeling she'll get an abortion after getting piss drunk a few times fails.

Daoust 07-08-2005 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irateplatypus
aborted in a civil manner? :eek: there is no such thing from the child's point of view. scotch or scalpel... it's the same result.

someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case.

My thoughts exactly, irateplatypus. You speak the truth!

I consider drinking a foetus to death and allowing a doctor to destroy it as the same thing.

What I do not understand is how people can be so disgusted by this girl doing this and yet think it's totally fine for a doctor to acheive the same ends but through a different method. There is a huge problem there.

xepherys 07-08-2005 06:24 AM
I *VERY* firmly believe in not hitting women... but I think I would've instinctively slapped her if I'd heard it first hand. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'd be absolutely outraged. I'm outrages sitting here at my desk just reading about it! *ARGH*

xepherys 07-08-2005 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irateplatypus
aborted in a civil manner? :eek: there is no such thing from the child's point of view. scotch or scalpel... it's the same result.

someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case.
Is there a difference between murder and assisted suicide? Death is death, sure... but there's a quality of termination that's involved that's important. Aside from this, what if the drinking does NOT cause an aborted pregnancy? Then this poor kid will be born with at LEAST serious FAS and if that doens't kill him/her then they'll live a life full of difficulties and hardships becuase the mother was too much of a piece of shit to be responsible for her actions. If she can't have a kid... and she doesn't have the balls to get an abortion, maybe she needs to get that shit sewn up. *GAH*

VitaminH 07-08-2005 08:13 AM
Wow, here is an old thread of mine that I've not thought about in a long time.

For anyone wondering what happened to the mother and her baby, I'm afraid I have no idea. The guy's girlfriend who was friends with the mother ended up severing their relationship and going back to her old ex, and we haven't heard from her since, so I have no idea what ever happened. I wish I knew how things had panned out, but I'm only left hoping that she wised up and made a more intelligent decesion.

Minx 07-08-2005 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tisonlyi
A climate of acceptance within society is the best antidote to stupid things like this.
What kind of screwed up society would we have if we supported the actions of this person? Acceptance is something we need to have more of but for the right things - race, religion, etc. Acceptance of something that is just wrong on so many different levels just does not make sense to me. Should we be more accepting of a murderer or a rapist? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tisonlyi
Those people here who condemn, in my view, are the real problem.
I don't feel people are condemning the fact that she doesn't want to have the child...it's her method that is disgusting and wrong.

rsl12 07-08-2005 01:05 PM
The behavior, as disgusting as it may be, is not particularly strange. I think of some of my co-workers who clean out snails from the aquarium every now and then. They don't want to kill the snails outright, so they put them into a dry styrofoam cup and let them dehydrate to death. It's terrible--when I pull out snails, I squish them and give them a quick, hopefully painless death.

People who are squeamish about death often have less qualms about letting creatures suffer, instead of dealing with their squeamishness.


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