The most disgusting thing I've ever heard.
 

A few days ago, an old high school friend came into my city of residence here and stopped by for a visit. We went out to lunch and were chatting and all that. Over lunch he was telling me about how he's been semi-dating a co-worker. This is all irrelevent except to set up how far removed I am from these people. This co-worker of his (whom shall henceforth be referred to as 'his girlfriend' for simplicity's sake) told him about a friend of her's she had just run into. His girlfriend (and her friend) is a few years younger (roughly 20 i think) than myself and is from a differnt town than I grew up in as well.

So his girlfriend was chatting with her old friend and her friend confessed she and her current boyfriend had had unprotected sex and she was now pregnant. His parents knew, but her's didnt and she didn't want to tell them. When his girlfriend asked her what she was going to do, as she probably couldn't hide it forever she responded with she didn't want to have it, but she also didn't want to go to an abortion clinic. Her solution? "I'm just going to drink it to death."

Upon hearing this, my head exploded and I flew off the handle even though the mother wasn't present.

If I had been present upon hearing something like this from the mother I probably would have gone insane. I just flat out can't understand how anyone could do something like that. I try to stay out of the whole abortion debate but for the love...if you're going to do it at least do it with a health professional who knows what he/she in a controlled medical setting!

I truely wish I had some way of getting to this girl or at least her family or something so someone could attempt to intervene. I seriously wanted to vomit up my lunch when I heard those words out of his mouth and he was just retelling the story. It frustrates me to no end that someone could just do that. Not to mention she'll probably just end up with a severely retarted deformed baby instead of what could have been a healthy one.

I don't even know what else to say, except that I am disgusted.

The insanity of some people is amazing. There should be some way to press criminal charges against this sort of behavior. This isn't an abortion, this is intentionally inflicitng a lifelong disability.

wow that is also the most disgusting thing i have ever heard....

usually i would add my own personal input here but i really dont what to say...

There is a special place in hell for people like that.

That is sick, sick, sick. How anyone could even contemplate something like that is beyond me. I hope she rethinks it for the baby's sake, and if not, I really do hope they can nail her ass with something, because she'd deserve it.

This makes me so upset I can't even type what I'm thinking.

People are messed up.

Maybe she'll do the world a favour and die of alcohol poisoning. That would be some poetic justice.

She clearly doesn't understand what she's saying. If that child is born after she tries that, it'll be seriously brain damaged. She's going to, to put it in terms she might have a chance to understand, saddle herself with a severely retarded child, for no reason. Either get the abortion cleanly, or just have the kid!

I'd like to shake her and say "GROW UP!!!!"

Damn. I have such high hopes for the world, and then the idiots remind me of how low our race can sink.

God have mercy upon the child that has mother who's thought stray to murder for her own personal benefit.

wow. just when you thought you have heard it all....:rolleyes

lets look at the scenario. you all say that the worst thing is that she will probably end up having a retarded or disabled baby. so i guess the best thing is that the baby lucks out and is completely healthy. wow, thats great! growing up under a mother who tried to kill you and doesnt want to raise you. this kid is in a lose lose situation.

and by drink it to death i assume you mean flood the vagina with alcohol? I'm not too sure what it really means.

~sighs~
jesus

Well, look at it from the girls prospective, she doesnt want to have a baby now, she wants to go to college, start a career, have a boyfriend. But drinking it to death is a little over the top.

I wonder if the boyfriend wants to keep the baby?

No, not pouring alcohol into her vagina, just drinking it..

By the way, that is the most horrible and callous thing I have ever heard. I demand that you punch that bitch in the face.

No, straight consumption of large amounts of booze can cause both damage to the fetus, as well as a spontanious abortion, which in this case would be what she is hoping for.

Well, hey, this is what happens when society isn't ready to control who has kids and isn't.

I mean, you need a driver's license...

Really, people, I'm disgusted as you are, but I see the solution differently.
We have enough space in the US to allow random population expansion. If we were Chinese or Indian, we'd have much different opinions on birth rates, for sure.

Societies advance, and they change. We realize birth control is fucked up and out of control. Any one with a working dick and pussy to put together can have kids. Everyone is disgusted by the situation, but no one is willing to say "you know what? you obviously can't handle this. When you've proven you can, you can have control back." to society.

I mean, fer cryin out loud, you END the whole abortion debate if you decide: "you know what, you're stupid, you're NOT allowed to get pregnant (for women), nor are you allowed to GET someone pregnent (for men)."

Now, I know, I know, giving the state that level of control over a human's body is a new, fucked up, idea. But, listen, you've got 50 percent of America thinking abortion is cool. You've got 50 thinking it's the worse thing ever. If you're not getting someone, or getting pregnant, before proving your worth, then that debate is over.

I mean, my wife and I are scared to have kids. We make $60k+ a year, we live in a brand-three week old-new 3 bedroom 1588sq foot home. We drive two 2004 model year vehicles. You'd think we'd feel we can care properly for a child. But, I wonder about that! We're both intimidated as hell by the responsibility kids present. When we have a child, we HOPE we'll care for it well. But, will we? God I hope so.

I'd hope other parents care for thier children as well, but it's obvious that's not happening. What's scarey, is that we allow it to happen, and we'll continue to allow it to happen until society as a whole sets down some motherfucking RULES for who can have kids, and how they're cared for, and enforces them.

Obviously, people can't handle it.

We take away kids toys when they can't care for them...

Unfortunately, I've been hearing about young girls who have done this to themselves for years. It seems that the outcome is rarely an abortion, but rather a child that is challenged or otherwise disabled. Often the mothers come close to killing themselves in the process. Some girls that our family knew almost overdosed on various different drugs in attempts to kill their unborn children. Now they are left to support disabled and challenged children. I suggest advising your friend to do something about his girlfriends misguided friend. Perhaps printing this thread and sending it with him back to her.

This was an old case, from the ACLU's files, where a mother got arrested for drinking while pregnant.
http://archive.aclu.org/news/w081596c.html
From the ACLU files, makes for an interesting debate... When you know a real life example, it's appalling.

If it's a miscarriage she's shooting for, which, depending on how far along she is in her pregnancy, could be a lot tougher on her body and her future conception ability, than an abortion would be. There are probably better ways to try and miscarry than to drink it to death, I've seen babies born with fetal alchohol syndrome and it is the saddest thing I've ever seen.

Why doesn't she want to go to a clinic?

This is a fine example of why abortion should be an alternative, and, I'm sorry, but perhaps a relatively easy alternative for the people who really should *not* be having children.

and that's all I can say without ranting.

Desperate, scared people in desperate, scary situations do desperate, scary things.

A climate of acceptance within society is the best antidote to stupid things like this.

Why should a 20 year old be so terrified of telling her parents she got pregnant that she's willing to drink herself into a medical situation to try and 'deal'?

Those people here who condemn, in my view, are the real problem.

Acceptance breeds responsibility. Persecution does just the opposite.

True enough, however, unless this is taking place in a country where abortion is not legal, or easily accessible, and that doesn't sound like that's the case, the situation isn't as desperate as she thinks, if she would open her eyes and think clearly.

If she lives at home, with her parents, and is afraid to tell them, honestly an abortion would be a lot easier to hide and a lot safer than drinking herself into a coma and a miscarriage.

---------------
Choice is generally the crux of the abortion debate, that a person is entitled to do whatever tehy want with their body. She is clearly making that choice by choosing to drink herself into a miscarriage, however, the abortion is what she wants, but it's like she won't make the choice to have one herself, and she'd rather do all sorts of things to have nature take it's course, avoiding that decision.

If this person just said "I'm pregnant, I don't want to be, I'm going have an abortion", there'd be a few cries of baby killer, but most folks would be supportive of her choice. This is different, because we know drinking herself not pregnant might not cause an abortion, but we do know that drinking during pregnancy, especially at the levels she is talking about, does cause birth defects.

You haven't argued against my point.

So if a person says that yes, they are pregnant, and they don't want to be, or can't be for whatever reason, abortion is an option for them, but they won't consider it, and they say that they are going to drink themselves into a miscarriage, people should sit by and say, OK, sure, whatever works for you, let me pour you a martini?

Responsibiliy breeds acceptance... She's being persecuted because she's not being responsible.

I taught a child who had suffered from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He was 13, had the reading ability of a 2nd grader, and had many other behavioral disorders. He didn't nor will ever be able to "fit in" or function really normally in society. He will most likely have to live with his parents for years or end up getting into serious trouble.

This makes me soooo angry.

Someone to take that chance with a fetus or child is so completely naive and irresponsible. I wish there was some way to stop her. I hope someone catches on to what she's doing.

cart and horse conundrum.

You see them in one order, I see them in the other.

A better question to ask of a responsible 20 year old is this: Why is she having unprotected sex when a responsible person of that age by now surely knows the consequences of such action?

A simple assessment of the act of drinking excessive amounts of alcohol for the purpose of inducing a miscarriage/abortion or whatever you might like to call it is this: It's irrational behavior being engaged in by a person who was not emotionally ready to deal with the consequences of the irresponsible act of having unprotected sex.

The above statement offers neither condemnation or persecution. Just to be clear about it this one offers both: The behavior of this woman is nothing more than an all too convenient form of after the fact birth control and I personally think it is barbaric. I am of course assuming that in this case she will be successful in causing the premature termination of her unplanned, unwanted, and easily avoidable pregancy.

If she has already started this farce then perhaps at this point it would likely be the best thing for this unborn child. If she is not successful then the real tragedy is that she will most certainly sentence this child to a very painful and likely very short life in this world. Under no circumstances is excessive alcohol consuption while knowingly pregnant acceptable behavior.

well, just two thoughts I had. One she isnt a mother yet. Two, hearing something second hand isnt always an accurate way of hearing something, I wouldnt necessarily be certain that this is what she actually said or is what she actually means.

Jeez you think she would of thought of some alternatives at first, she kinda jumped the gun a little, and like you said it might not kill the baby but it certainly could harm it. There HAS to be and there IS a better alternative than drinking while pregnant.

There are no words for the amount of disgust and sorrow i have for someone even CONSIDERING this act. I feel it as a stain on my entire generation. :(

I still don't understand your solution. Are you saying let her do it, that it is none of our business?

Shit like this has to be society's business, because we are the ones who will be left to deal with the problems this will cause. And they will be problems far beyond one child with fetal alcohol syndrome. This girl will likely have troubles her entire life; the child, if it lives, will have huge troubles and will likely cause others (society) troubles as well. These costs will all fall on society, one way or another.

Best case senario, in my opinion, if she goes through with this assnine idea? - She drinks a little too much and follows the baby to the grave.

One more problem solved!

I know pregnancy is something some people find very difficult to deal with, but COME ON. There are so many easier solutions to the whole thing. I don't see how someone can object to an abortion when they are essentially trying to do the same thing. Misscarrying due to excessive drinking is even WORSE, morally, in my opinion.

I understand that some people don't think logically. And that she's probably scared and has no idea what to do - but there ARE solutions. Solutions that are better and safer for everyone involved. I know a girl who just recently turned 15 who is HORRIFIED that she'd had a few drinks before she knew she was pregnant. She wants to get an abortion for the soul fact that she's worried if she carried the baby to term that it would be deformed, harder to adopt and its life would be less than stellar. How is a 15 year old girl making more informed decisions than this woman? It just kills me a little bit inside. Responsibility seems to be a 4 letter word with some people.

Karma is a bitch, and if she goes through with this, she will def. get it back somehow

so... she wants to abort the fetus, but doesn't want to have an abortion? HUH??? This 'person' is a coward. She would rather abscond responsibility by retreating behind the bottle and 'blaming' it for the result than make the decision to go to a hospital and have a clean abortion. 'People' like her are no more developed than simple animals. They fuck, they don't care about the consequences, and they don't embrace the responsibility for their actions. I think she should be neutered.

This is why I think people should be on mandated birth control until such time as they demonstrate they are able to handle the responsibility that a child entails.

/sarcasm, not serious...although I wish it were true when I hear of asshats like this.

I'm not sure what to think of this person aside from pure, abject horror.

That is really a disturbing thing to hear.

If the concern is that of not being ready to be a parent, there's no reason for her to be panicking. First, there's the option of abortion, which in the first trimester is legal, readily available, and quite safe. Those who have a moral objection to abortion have the option of adoption, which is free, and often adoptive parents or adoption brokers will pay all of the woman's medical expenses during the pregnancy. Giving birth to a child does not mean you have to raise it, and there are thousands of infertile couples out there who would be happy to take in an unwanted newborn and give her a good family that wants and loves her.

This isn't the 1950's; an unwanted pregnancy won't ruin your life plans unless you decide to let it.

kind of an ironic situation there.

she doesnt want a baby due to the interference it will have on her life.

she tries drinking it to death...but if the baby lives, the defective baby she's created will likely plague her for much longer than she bargained for.

I would have to agree that it should be an alternative, at least the fetus would be aborted in a civil manner as opposed to "drinking it to death."

aborted in a civil manner? :eek: there is no such thing from the child's point of view. scotch or scalpel... it's the same result.

someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case.

How can the child have a point of view if it hasn't even been birthed? I honestly don't see why abortion is such a bad thing. Had I been aborted, well I wouldn't even have known would I? Drinking the child to death just seems a bit harsh as opposed to aborting the fetus by a medical professional, IMO. However, I will not delve into this topic further as it can be a touchy subject to some people. Whatever the mother decides is personally up to her, I just don't think drinking it to death is the right way to be "getting rid of her problem" so to speak.

Drinking it to death poses risks not associated with a clinical abortion, mainly that of not killing it but instead inflicting it at birth with fetal alcohol syndrome. If a woman chooses to have a child, she has the moral obligation both before and after birth, to keep that child safe and healthy.

gilda,

if you'll read the post i cited, you'll see that wasn't the argument i was countering. the entire point was centered around "drinking a pregancy to death" while you were speaking of a different set of circumstances (it surviving the ordeal).

even so, i am deeply troubled by the rationale you employed in that scenario as well.

I've actually thought this for a long time. I've always thought that if someone gets a second abortion, they should automatically get tubal ligation (actually, i would say this should be after the first instance not caused by rape or threatening the life of the mother, but that might be too far for some people). And if a guy gets 2+ women pregnant and is not able to take care of the children, vasectomy. People need to have consequences for reckless behavior, and they need to have ways to protect society from their recklessness.

That is pretty disgusting and outrageous. I'm not sure what the problem is, they just don't take life seriously, theirs or their progeny.

Yeah sterilization...with some rusty scissors.

im hoping if she is going to drink it to death that she contemplate going ahead with it and drinking herself to death at the same time. i bet she doesnt.

such selfishness i have never heard

:hmm:

DEFECTIVE baby?? Do you realise how frankly fascist that sounds? Some of you people talking about the 'societal' cost of this unfortunate child, should it survive this ordeal (and I agree with Strange Famous' post from sometime last year that this second-hand report seems unlikely to be true) make me think you're stoking the ovens for us 'defective' human beings even as I type. This, incidentally, is quite apart from the debate at hand, which brings me right around to:

Exactly.

Someone's going to sit on me for this I'm sure, but this child's prospects are pretty fucked either way. It's death or 'defective'. So what difference does it make? How can you villify her in one breath, then say she should abort the child in the next? That makes no sense whatsoever.

And sure, the woman's a shitstain. I can open a window and hurl a brick with a 90 per cent chance of hitting another shitstain. Guess what folks? World's full of em.

By the way, this is an old thread... VitaminH, did you ever find out how this turned out/is turning out?

Yes, let's all welcome our facist overlords.

I responded directly to this statement: "someone explain to me how you can condemn drinking a pregnancy to death while defending abortion in this case."

How so? I see two moral options for the pregnant girl. First, she can get an abortion in the first trimester, which is legal, safe, and very effective. If for some reason she doesn't believe in abortion, and has a moral or religious objection to it, I fully respect that stand, and she should act according to that conviction and carry the child to term. Once the choice has been made to carry the child to term, she has the obligation to care for this child and keep it safe and healthy. After it has been born, she then has the choice of keeping and raising it or giving it up for adoption.

Two good options, which allow for her to act according to her own moral code regarding abortion. Attempting to drink it to death is neither. It is an attempt not to take responsibility for her actions by neither aborting the fetus nor taking good pre-natal care. There is a very good possibility that the pregnancy will come to term, and if it does, that the child will have been harmed directly as a result of her choice to drink heavily during pregnancy. This isn't a judgement about the worthiness of the child involved, but about the morality of a parent intentionally inflicting harm on a child.

We all have defects. I'm very near-sighted. While I won't love my children any less if they are near-sighted, it isn't something I would intentionally inflict on them if I had a choice. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a much more serious condition, and just as I wouldn't love a child with this condition any less, I also wouldn't intentionally inflict it upon an otherwise healthy child. Choosing actions that result in direct harm to a child is reprehensible.

This is a judgement regarding the woman in this case, not the child.

Right, so when she has the kid with FAS and she can't support it, the taxpayers get to step in. There are private acts with public consequences.

Not to mention the damage this girl will do to herself. She needs help, and a hell of a lot of counseling.

Although I'm not religious, I just hope that the child is taken up to heaven (or at least some good place) and that the mother should realise that not only did she condemn herself in others eyes and her own, but also she is setting a example that could lead to other foolish people following this act.

Also she will spiral into a trail of self-destruction. Baby -> Don't want -> Drink it -> Become alcoholic (due to the fact that she could think that drinking solves her problems and bla bla bla, not really if that would have but could) -> Either ending up with a dead baby literary murdered by her, or a child that will never have a proper life -> Anger from others and herself including her boyfriend... And so forth.

Abstinence only education at its best.

I'm not sure if this is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard, but it's right up there near the top. Most of the other truly disgusting things I've heard also involve cruelty/injury to young children.

This is a bad idea on so many levels it's absurd. Apparently she thinks this will be easy. I get the feeling she'll get an abortion after getting piss drunk a few times fails.

My thoughts exactly, irateplatypus. You speak the truth!

I consider drinking a foetus to death and allowing a doctor to destroy it as the same thing.

What I do not understand is how people can be so disgusted by this girl doing this and yet think it's totally fine for a doctor to acheive the same ends but through a different method. There is a huge problem there.

I *VERY* firmly believe in not hitting women... but I think I would've instinctively slapped her if I'd heard it first hand. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'd be absolutely outraged. I'm outrages sitting here at my desk just reading about it! *ARGH*

Is there a difference between murder and assisted suicide? Death is death, sure... but there's a quality of termination that's involved that's important. Aside from this, what if the drinking does NOT cause an aborted pregnancy? Then this poor kid will be born with at LEAST serious FAS and if that doens't kill him/her then they'll live a life full of difficulties and hardships becuase the mother was too much of a piece of shit to be responsible for her actions. If she can't have a kid... and she doesn't have the balls to get an abortion, maybe she needs to get that shit sewn up. *GAH*

Wow, here is an old thread of mine that I've not thought about in a long time.

For anyone wondering what happened to the mother and her baby, I'm afraid I have no idea. The guy's girlfriend who was friends with the mother ended up severing their relationship and going back to her old ex, and we haven't heard from her since, so I have no idea what ever happened. I wish I knew how things had panned out, but I'm only left hoping that she wised up and made a more intelligent decesion.

What kind of screwed up society would we have if we supported the actions of this person? Acceptance is something we need to have more of but for the right things - race, religion, etc. Acceptance of something that is just wrong on so many different levels just does not make sense to me. Should we be more accepting of a murderer or a rapist? I don't think so.

I don't feel people are condemning the fact that she doesn't want to have the child...it's her method that is disgusting and wrong.

The behavior, as disgusting as it may be, is not particularly strange. I think of some of my co-workers who clean out snails from the aquarium every now and then. They don't want to kill the snails outright, so they put them into a dry styrofoam cup and let them dehydrate to death. It's terrible--when I pull out snails, I squish them and give them a quick, hopefully painless death.

People who are squeamish about death often have less qualms about letting creatures suffer, instead of dealing with their squeamishness.