Law question: not read rights. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:29 AM

I wasn't quite sure what section to put this in so I'll put it here, if its in the wrong spot feel free to move it

And just for the record, no I wasn't arrested but this applies to someone i know. This friend was arrested, and charged and at no point during this process was he read his rights. How can this effect any legal action against him? Can he use this in any beneficial way? I know it would be his word against the cop's, but in the age of things like dashboard cams and such evidence can exists to help prove that he was not read them.

Thanks in advance

maleficent · 12-03-2004, 08:32 AM

What does his lawyer have to say?

12-03-2004, 08:33 AM

You cant be arrested without being read your miranda rights. Have him go into the courtroom screaming about the ACLU, and claiming every right imaginable has been violated. I've been arrested upwards of 10 times, and i only have one charge on my record, which was dropped down from a felony to a misdemeanor.

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:33 AM

Not sure yet, this just happened yesterday.

fhqwhgads · 12-03-2004, 08:35 AM

Ahhh...the magical age of television.

I don't have to advise you of your Miranda rights unless I'm planning to interview you regarding the crime that you were arrested for. Questions related to booking/processing are not covered. I rarely say to a person "you have the right to remain..." If I am planning on interviewing them, there's forms in the interrogation room that we use. We both read the form, and then we both sign the form.

If your friend was interviewed and asked questions about the crime, anything he said can not be used in court. Other than that, it doesn't make a difference.

Oh yeah, and I don't have to let you make a phone call either, but I will, if you behave.

/officer friendly

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:37 AM

He was asked questions by the cops, trying to get him to put the blame on his other friend. And done so in the stereotypical "good cop, bad cop" method at that.

fhqwhgads · 12-03-2004, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinktank

You cant be arrested without being read your miranda rights. Have him go into the courtroom screaming about the ACLU, and claiming every right imaginable has been violated. I've been arrested upwards of 10 times, and i only have one charge on my record, which was dropped down from a felony to a misdemeanor.

You can't be arrested without being read your miranda rights??

Miranda only applies to custodial interrogations, not the arrest process itself.

Carno · 12-03-2004, 08:39 AM

You're a cop?

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:41 AM

I thought they can take you into custody and keep you there for a certain amount of time before you are released w/o any charges, and then you may not need to be read your rights. But if they press charges you'd have to have them read to you at some point? Otherwise whats the point of being read them at all unless during the process you are screaming out "i did it! i did it!!".

Edit: typolicious

Carno · 12-03-2004, 08:44 AM

The only point to being read your rights is so that cops can use whatever you say against you.

Bill O'Rights · 12-03-2004, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

You're a cop?

You picked up on that, eh?

fhqwhgads · 12-03-2004, 08:47 AM

Being arrested and being charged with a crime are two different things. I can arrest you, keep you detained and interview you, and then decide that there is not enough information to actually charge you with a crime. Were you arrested? Yes, because I removed your liberty and your freedom to leave. Just because you are arrested doesn't mean that you are charged with a crime.

Miranda applies to custodial interrogations. If you are in custody, and I am going to interview you about an incident, I need to advise you of your Miranda rights. If I don't, then anything that you said to be during the questioning can not be used in court.

There's countless times where I've locked up drug dealers and I haven't needed to ask them about their crimes. I watched you sell the guy drugs from a covert location. I approached you, you ran, I tackled you, and I found drugs in your pocket. I have no need to ask him about the events that just unfolded, so I have no need to advise him of his Miranda rights.

quadro2000 · 12-03-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhqwhgads

There's countless times where I've locked up drug dealers and I haven't needed to ask them about their crimes. I watched you sell the guy drugs from a covert location. I approached you, you ran, I tackled you, and I found drugs in your pocket. I have no need to ask him about the events that just unfolded, so I have no need to advise him of his Miranda rights.

So YOU'RE the one who jumped my grandpa! That fucker sure can run, can't he?!

(BTW, he still claims he was "giving" the drugs to his friend Moishe for his "glaucoma." I'm just saying.)

Averett · 12-03-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

You're a cop?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

You picked up on that, eh?

Bwahaahha!

Glory's Sun · 12-03-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

The only point to being read your rights is so that cops can use whatever you say against you. Otherwise, they don't give a shit if you know them or not. They don't give a shit about you anyways, but that's another story.

I don't think this is always true. In fact I think it's the other way around in most cases. I have respect for cops, firemen or any other public worker. They get paid in peanut shells and they hear shit all day. Maybe if people had a little more respect for them and their authority, they'd be a little calmer. That being said, you'll always find one rotten apple in the bunch. You can't hold this against the entire group. This is coming from someone that's had well over 30 speeding tickets and other brushes with the law. If they didn't give a shit about people they wouldn't be out there risking their lives for people on an everyday basis.

Carno · 12-03-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

You picked up on that, eh?

Hah, I thought he was a carpenter or something

Quote:

I don't think this is always true. In fact I think it's the other way around in most cases. I have respect for cops, firemen or any other public worker. They get paid in peanut shells and they hear shit all day. Maybe if people had a little more respect for them and their authority, they'd be a little calmer. That being said, you'll always find one rotten apple in the bunch. You can't hold this against the entire group. This is coming from someone that's had well over 30 speeding tickets and other brushes with the law. If they didn't give a shit about people they wouldn't be out there risking their lives for people on an everyday basis.

Sorry, I guess you caught me before I editted it out. I have very strong opinions about LEO, and there's no need for me to share them here. My previous post was inflammatory, so I editted it out.

aurigus · 12-03-2004, 08:54 AM

From http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirand.../mirandaqa.htm

Quote:

Q. Can police arrest or detain a person without reading them their Miranda rights?

A. Yes, but until the person has been informed of his or her Miranda rights, any statements made by them during interrogation may be ruled inadmissible in court

Basically, anything your friend said is inadmissable in court. But, if they found pot in his pocket, or whatever, then they don't need anything from him really. They already have their evidence.

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:55 AM

K so anything he said during the process can't be used against him in any way shape or form. Thats good to know atleast. Not quite the amount of good news i was expecting but still good news.

fhqwhgads · 12-03-2004, 08:57 AM

Here's the thing... things you say can't be used against YOU. If I have you in custody and I ask you about what your friend's involvment in the crime was, I can use your statements against him and vice versa.

Bill O'Rights · 12-03-2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObieX

I thought they can take you into custody and keep you there for a certain amount of time before you are released w/o any charges, and then you may not need to be read your rights. But if they press charges you'd have to have them read to you at some point?

We could hold up to 24 hours with no charges being pressed. After that we either had to let 'em go, or charge 'em. And...no, fhqwhgads is absolutely correct. Often, the arresting officer is not the interviewing officer. It is only required to mirandize a supect before they are interviewed. However, just to keep collective asses covered, the arresting officer will, often times, inform you of your rights. In the heat of things, it is not uncommon to forget. Especially when dealing with a combative suspect. That is why it is not uncommon for a suspect to be mirandized numerous times, before ever even being asked a single question about the offense that he/she is suspected of commiting.

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 08:58 AM

Hmm also good to know, thanks.

Glory's Sun · 12-03-2004, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

Hah, I thought he was a carpenter or something

Sorry, I guess you caught me before I editted it out. I have very strong opinions about LEO, and there's no need for me to share them here. My previous post was inflammatory, so I editted it out.

there's nothing wrong with having strong opinions on things. I have strong issues with the ALE but like you said that's a different story. Regardless we have to show respect and try to change what we can for good. I have strong issues with legislature that is trying to stop raving. Yes raving doesn't mean there are drugs.. so that's why I have issues with it. /me stops hijacking thread

animosity · 12-03-2004, 09:03 AM

basically, If he admits to the crime and they try to use that, it can & should be thrown out of court. The law is put in place to protect people who dont know their rights, but it is a nice tool to get out of saying things you wish you had not said.

But, it all comes down to the judge... I have had judges that really dont care about the facts/laws. If they have a predisposed opinion on you/the case that is the end of it.

Carno · 12-03-2004, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

there's nothing wrong with having strong opinions on things. I have strong issues with the ALE but like you said that's a different story. Regardless we have to show respect and try to change what we can for good. I have strong issues with legislature that is trying to stop raving. Yes raving doesn't mean there are drugs.. so that's why I have issues with it. /me stops hijacking thread

Yeah, but none of my opinions are edifying. Anything that comes out of my mouth regarding cops is most likely going to be negative. And there are many reasons for this.. I did not wake up one day and dislike cops, but I have come to feel this way after multiple bad experiences with the law. And I don't dislike cops because I got caught doing something, but rather how I was treated, even when all I did wrong was have a burnt out tag light.

Bill O'Rights · 12-03-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by animosity

basically, If he admits to the crime and they try to use that, it can & should be thrown out of court.

Again, only if he was specifically asked if he commited that crime, then admited to it. I hate to burst bubbles here, guys...but real life ain't like Sipowitz on NYPD Blue.

WillyPete · 12-03-2004, 09:32 AM

If your buddy's lawyer is bright he'll wait until the officer is in court stating what your friend has said before dropping the miranda bomb. Rather use it to dismiss EVERYTHING a witness has said than give him a chance to say things after it that wouldn't be considered inadmissible. Pretty much, just let him say his whole schpiel and let the judge stirke it ALL from the record.

animosity · 12-03-2004, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Again, only if he was specifically asked if he commited that crime, then admited to it. I hate to burst bubbles here, guys...but real life ain't like Sipowitz on NYPD Blue.

yes, that is what I meant.

timalkin · 12-03-2004, 04:39 PM

What did your friend do? Maybe he deserves to spend a little time in the pokey?

amnesia622 · 12-03-2004, 09:35 PM

probly got caught puffing in the car. Isnt that everyones first run-in with the law?

fckm · 12-03-2004, 10:44 PM

Actually, I think that your friend's statements can be used in court, just not in his own trial.

radioguy · 12-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Again, only if he was specifically asked if he commited that crime, then admited to it. I hate to burst bubbles here, guys...but real life ain't like Sipowitz on NYPD Blue.

what about Briscoe and Green from law and order? is that real life?

Ustwo · 12-04-2004, 09:48 AM

I must have done something wrong in life, the worst thing I ever got caught for was allow a friend to ride on the back of my one person scooter and I didn't have my insurance card on me.

I guess I should have been arrested more or something...

ObieX · 12-04-2004, 10:31 AM

The trick is to tell the cop to suck your dingle-berries, and then present them. Unfortunately all i've gotten so far is 1 speeding ticket, and i wasn't aware of this trick at the time.

uncle_el · 12-06-2004, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I must have done something wrong in life, the worst thing I ever got caught for was allow a friend to ride on the back of my one person scooter and I didn't have my insurance card on me.

I guess I should have been arrested more or something...

you can be arrested for any moving violation in/on a vehicle. it doesn't matter how big or how small the offense is, if the officer chooses to, you can and will be arrested. thus when you get a ticket, and the officer lets you go, at the bottom of the ticket it states "license displayed in lieu of bail"- or something to that effect.

zxello · 12-07-2004, 06:47 PM

hey fhqwhgads don't you just love how people interpret shows like Law & Order and CSI as reality, im majoring in criminal justice in college and i hear this kind of stuff all the time from class mates that think this way =)

12-03-2004, 08:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Law question: not read rights. I wasn't quite sure what section to put this in so I'll put it here, if its in the wrong spot feel free to move it And just for the record, no I wasn't arrested but this applies to someone i know. This friend was arrested, and charged and at no point during this process was he read his rights. How can this effect any legal action against him? Can he use this in any beneficial way? I know it would be his word against the cop's, but in the age of things like dashboard cams and such evidence can exists to help prove that he was not read them. Thanks in advance __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-03-2004, 08:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	What does his lawyer have to say? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

12-03-2004, 08:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Not sure yet, this just happened yesterday. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-03-2004, 08:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	He was asked questions by the cops, trying to get him to put the blame on his other friend. And done so in the stereotypical "good cop, bad cop" method at that. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-03-2004, 08:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	I thought they can take you into custody and keep you there for a certain amount of time before you are released w/o any charges, and then you may not need to be read your rights. But if they press charges you'd have to have them read to you at some point? Otherwise whats the point of being read them at all unless during the process you are screaming out "i did it! i did it!!". Edit: typolicious __________________ We Must Dissent. Last edited by ObieX; 12-03-2004 at 08:44 AM..

12-03-2004, 08:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	You cant be arrested without being read your miranda rights. Have him go into the courtroom screaming about the ACLU, and claiming every right imaginable has been violated. I've been arrested upwards of 10 times, and i only have one charge on my record, which was dropped down from a felony to a misdemeanor.

12-03-2004, 08:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
fhqwhgads Junkie	Ahhh...the magical age of television. I don't have to advise you of your Miranda rights unless I'm planning to interview you regarding the crime that you were arrested for. Questions related to booking/processing are not covered. I rarely say to a person "you have the right to remain..." If I am planning on interviewing them, there's forms in the interrogation room that we use. We both read the form, and then we both sign the form. If your friend was interviewed and asked questions about the crime, anything he said can not be used in court. Other than that, it doesn't make a difference. Oh yeah, and I don't have to let you make a phone call either, but I will, if you behave. /officer friendly

12-03-2004, 08:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	You're a cop?

12-03-2004, 08:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	The only point to being read your rights is so that cops can use whatever you say against you. Last edited by Carn; 12-03-2004 at 08:51 AM..

12-03-2004, 08:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
fhqwhgads Junkie	Being arrested and being charged with a crime are two different things. I can arrest you, keep you detained and interview you, and then decide that there is not enough information to actually charge you with a crime. Were you arrested? Yes, because I removed your liberty and your freedom to leave. Just because you are arrested doesn't mean that you are charged with a crime. Miranda applies to custodial interrogations. If you are in custody, and I am going to interview you about an incident, I need to advise you of your Miranda rights. If I don't, then anything that you said to be during the questioning can not be used in court. There's countless times where I've locked up drug dealers and I haven't needed to ask them about their crimes. I watched you sell the guy drugs from a covert location. I approached you, you ran, I tackled you, and I found drugs in your pocket. I have no need to ask him about the events that just unfolded, so I have no need to advise him of his Miranda rights.

12-03-2004, 08:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	K so anything he said during the process can't be used against him in any way shape or form. Thats good to know atleast. Not quite the amount of good news i was expecting but still good news. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-03-2004, 08:57 AM	#19 (permalink)
fhqwhgads Junkie	Here's the thing... things you say can't be used against YOU. If I have you in custody and I ask you about what your friend's involvment in the crime was, I can use your statements against him and vice versa.

12-03-2004, 08:58 AM	#21 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Hmm also good to know, thanks. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-03-2004, 09:03 AM	#23 (permalink)
animosity on fire Location: Atlanta, GA	basically, If he admits to the crime and they try to use that, it can & should be thrown out of court. The law is put in place to protect people who dont know their rights, but it is a nice tool to get out of saying things you wish you had not said. But, it all comes down to the judge... I have had judges that really dont care about the facts/laws. If they have a predisposed opinion on you/the case that is the end of it.

12-03-2004, 09:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	If your buddy's lawyer is bright he'll wait until the officer is in court stating what your friend has said before dropping the miranda bomb. Rather use it to dismiss EVERYTHING a witness has said than give him a chance to say things after it that wouldn't be considered inadmissible. Pretty much, just let him say his whole schpiel and let the judge stirke it ALL from the record.

12-03-2004, 04:39 PM	#28 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	What did your friend do? Maybe he deserves to spend a little time in the pokey? __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix

12-03-2004, 09:35 PM	#29 (permalink)
amnesia622 Upright Location: Glastonbury, CT	probly got caught puffing in the car. Isnt that everyones first run-in with the law?

12-03-2004, 10:44 PM	#30 (permalink)
fckm Insane Location: Ithaca, New York	Actually, I think that your friend's statements can be used in court, just not in his own trial. __________________ And if you say to me tomorrow, oh what fun it all would be. Then what's to stop us, pretty baby. But What Is And What Should Never Be.

12-04-2004, 09:48 AM	#32 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I must have done something wrong in life, the worst thing I ever got caught for was allow a friend to ride on the back of my one person scooter and I didn't have my insurance card on me. I guess I should have been arrested more or something... __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-04-2004, 10:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	The trick is to tell the cop to suck your dingle-berries, and then present them. Unfortunately all i've gotten so far is 1 speeding ticket, and i wasn't aware of this trick at the time. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-07-2004, 06:47 PM	#35 (permalink)
zxello Addict Location: P-Town, WA	hey fhqwhgads don't you just love how people interpret shows like Law & Order and CSI as reality, im majoring in criminal justice in college and i hear this kind of stuff all the time from class mates that think this way =) __________________ Old signature just wasn't doing it for me anymore, so now I have this new one. It's equally as stupid but at least it looks really long. I'm probably just going to keep typing until I run out of things to babble about and see how many people actually read this. I once ran down a hill, fell down and hurt my elbow; my mom said I would be ok, she kissed it and made it all better. I've run out of things to say now, so if you have read this whole thing, congratulations you get a gold star!