Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-29-2004, 04:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Humans vs The Machines

This is pretty cool

Quote:
They walk, tumble, crawl, writhe, roll and bounce around. It's a race and contestants can take any shape or form, from four-legged walkers to amoebas. The only thing is, this race doesn't exist in the real world. It's entirely online and competing "animals" are little more than wire-frame models that follow some basic physical principles such as mass and gravity.

Welcome to Sodarace. Developed as a joint project between Soda - a British multimedia design company - and the University of London, Sodarace tackles the age-old question: which is better - man or machine? Human ingenuity or artificial intelligence? Indeed, its website promotes the venture as "the online Olympics pitting human creativity against machine learning".

Users can build any creature they conjure up using the Sodaconstructor virtual construction kit - a Java application from the Sodarace website. Programmers and those in the field of AI can then apply their algorithms to the creature to come up with a faster model. The virtual creatures are then submitted to compete in races across all kinds of two-dimensional terrain in the Sodarace forums.

Stefan Westen is a software developer for Wallingford Software in the UK and discovered Sodarace from a story in ZDNet. The idea of humans versus AI in a race intrigued him.

"I had a look on the Sodarace website and saw that others had written AI programs to design models for the race," he says. "Then I decided to try and write a simple AI program to optimise these models."

In doing this, programmers take an existing model and use their AI algorithms to improve it. One popular method is to use a genetic algorithm that - put simply - tests a large number of possible combinations and carries the best mix into the "next generation" of the model. It's a method likened to the theory of evolution and has its share of passionate proponents and detractors.

"Humans can beat AI because we can think, we're not just a program that takes a model and randomly changes it millions of times. The only thing computers have that beats us is the processing speed at which they carry out tasks," wrote one website user in the forum's artificial intelligence thread.

"Why do you feel the need to attack AI? Are you insecure?" responded another.

It's as much about good old-fashioned one-upmanship as it is about serious scientific research. "In the race forum on the Sodarace website there was a very interesting competition going on where AI programmers would post a model and then model builders would post a faster [one]," Westen says.

"I spent many evenings programming until late at night to optimise my program so it would beat the fastest model in the forum. As far as I can remember I still have the record for this race: 381 frames."

Looking at the models, they appear remarkably complex - a two-dimensional line drawing that has the illusion of existing in three dimensions. However, the creatures are made up of surprisingly simple parts of "springs", "muscles" and "joints" defined by a small set of variable parameters such as gravity, friction and spring stiffness.

That Sodarace is designed to be fun and work like a game is no accident. Soda - the co-developer - believes in breeding creativity through play. There are no age limits. Anyone can join in and build models. They don't even have to race them. Some have submitted simple drawings that animate, such as the creative entry called "London Bridge" that (of course) tumbles down as soon as you load it up.

This doesn't mean it's easy though; just that it can be as simple or complex as you want. It took me at least 10 attempts before coming up with a design that didn't collapse like a marionette with its strings cut as soon as I turned the simulator on.

A year on from when it was introduced, however, the Sodarace story has a twist. Westen became frustrated with its limitations and decided to build his own race called Mins (Mins Is Not Soda). "I started to notice that somehow there was an 'upper limit' for the speed of models. They just wouldn't go any faster," he explains. "I found that there is a hard limit on the speed of Soda models. In theory, there is no maximum limit in Mins." Westen is even talking about adding other "events" such as high jump and tug-of-war to further challenge builders and AI programmers.

Meanwhile, the debate about humans versus AI continues in the Sodarace forums. Perhaps if the two would just learn to work together. But then again, where's the fun in that?
Can you design your own?

Web site: http://sodarace.net/index.jsp

EDIT: Link to MINS now included: http://mins.sourceforge.net/

Mr Mephisto

Last edited by Mephisto2; 11-29-2004 at 04:54 PM..
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 11-29-2004, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
lonely rolling star
 
sadistikdreams's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle.
That sounds fun.

Man vs Beast, or Man vs Machine.
__________________
"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone.
The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials.
"
-Lin Yutang

hearts, by d.a.
sadistikdreams is offline  
Old 11-29-2004, 05:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
AHHH!!! It's the beginning!!! Oh, wait. This isn't Paranoia.
Slavakion is offline  
Old 11-29-2004, 05:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Carno's Avatar
 
I've fiddled with Soda a while back. It's good fun, but sometimes frustrating.
Carno is offline  
Old 11-30-2004, 03:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
The best I've ever been able to make is a pendulum thingy. Well, not a pendulum, since it rotates in a circle, but you get the idea. i just don't have the intuitiveness for building some awesome robot.
Slavakion is offline  
Old 11-30-2004, 12:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
Poo-tee-weet?
 
JStrider's Avatar
 
Location: The Woodlands, TX
ive seen it before... but never understood what exactly was goin on... im definently gonna have to mess with it a lil bit now...
__________________
-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto
JStrider is offline  
Old 12-01-2004, 10:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
Psycho
 
vox_rox's Avatar
 
Location: Comfy Little Bungalow
There is definitely an evolution going on here, and I think it's really intriguing. But clearly, these guys have way too much time on their hands.

Still, the technology clearly favours the humans, and will for the foreseeable future. But still, how long before...

Peace,

Pierre
vox_rox is offline  
 

Tags
humans, machines


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:46 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360