Church desecrated by attempted exorcism - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MSD · 11-24-2004, 04:20 PM

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...s/10263482.htm

Quote:

ST. PAUL - Police are investigating an informal exorcism at the Cathedral of St. Paul, which was directed at gay Roman Catholics and will cost thousands of dollars to clean up, police and church officials said.

They said the ritualistic sprinkling of blessed oil and salt around the church and in donation boxes earlier this month amounted to costly vandalism and possibly a hate crime.

The damage was discovered Nov. 7 after the noon Mass, and after words were exchanged between members of the Rainbow Sash Alliance, a gay rights group, and the opposing group, Catholics Against Sacrilege.

Police speculate the damage could have been done anytime between late Saturday afternoon and during the Mass itself.

The groups are at odds over gays participating in communion, one of the holiest rites in the church. Earlier this year, about 40 men, members of the group Ushers of the Eucharist, knelt in the aisles at the Cathedral to block Rainbow members from taking communion.

The Rev. Michael Skluzacek, rector of the cathedral, said he immediately understood the symbolism when he was told that someone had sprinkled the oil and salt around the church.

"It's a sign of exorcism," he told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis. "It's a sign of casting out the power of evil."

He said salt is used to bless holy water, and the oil, once it is blessed by a bishop, is used for consecrations. By sprinkling the salt and oil, he said, the vandals thought they were making the church holy again.

"Regardless of why they did it, it was a very disruptive act," Skluzacek said.

He estimated the clean up cost at thousands of dollars, involving crews working three days to remove the oil and salt and cleaning the doors, steps and boxes.

A report was filed with St. Paul police, who said the case could be prosecuted as a hate crime if someone is arrested.

"It does have an element of hate and bias to it," said police spokesman Paul Schnell, who noted that the incident seemed aimed to coincide with the presence of the Rainbow Sash group.

Schnell said police have no leads, but several religious people familiar with the case said it is probably the work of fringe Catholics who advocate using sacramentals, or holy objects, to cleanse places where gays take communion.

"I don't know who did it," said Dr. David Pence, a member of Ushers of the Eucharist. "I do know that some people have used sacramentals to engage in some kind of holy war against people. Nobody wants to see church property damaged in the name of an exorcism."

Michael Bayly, coordinator of the Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities, an advocacy group for gays and lesbians, said such fringe groups perceive gays and lesbians who take communion as evil.

He said he received an e-mail Nov. 5 from a man who threatened to douse Rainbow Sash members at the Nov. 7 Mass with what he described as "exorcised" oil blessed by a priest.

Bayly said the same man often appears at CPCSM and Rainbow Sash events and prays the rosary while walking apart from group members.

"I didn't make the connection until now," Bayly said Tuesday.

Way to give your religion a bad name and perpetuate stereotypes of America's religious population. Bunch of nutcases.

JJRousseau · 11-24-2004, 04:41 PM

There's is so much hating going on, where do they find the time to come up with those great names. [dripping sarcasm]

Not much of a blasting rebuke by the pastor.

Ustwo · 11-24-2004, 04:50 PM

The only really scary thing to me is the hate crime bit.

Hate crime laws are stupid, a crime is a crime, who cares what the movtive is. Is killing someone LESS a crime if you did it for money?

Dumb PC laws.

Macheath · 11-26-2004, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The only really scary thing to me is the hate crime bit.

Hate crime laws are stupid, a crime is a crime, who cares what the movtive is. Is killing someone LESS a crime if you did it for money?

Dumb PC laws.

Yeah, the term "hate crime" is just a throwback to the Clinton years anyway.

We live in a different age now.

Let's call it terrorism.

OFKU0 · 11-26-2004, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The only really scary thing to me is the hate crime bit.

Hate crime laws are stupid, a crime is a crime, who cares what the movtive is. Is killing someone LESS a crime if you did it for money?

Dumb PC laws.

Wow, I can't believe I agree with you Ustwo. A crime is a crime ,is a crime, is a crime. There are people who find themselves legitimate victims in society and that is very unfortunate but when religious/cultural/political groups go on about hate crimes, the crime is secondary to the noteriety that gets exploited from it. As said before certain forms of victimhood are very profitable at every level.

Macheath, funny reply to Ustwo. First laugh of my first waking hour.

As for the topic, the last experience I had with religion was when I was a young 'un. Back then we were told God loved everyone equally and we are all Gods children. Guess things have changed in 30+ years.

Ustwo · 11-26-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

As for the topic, the last experience I had with religion was when I was a young 'un. Back then we were told God loved everyone equally and we are all Gods children. Guess things have changed in 30+ years.

You didn't pay close enough attention. God loves everyone, even the sinner

Old saying is 'Love the sinner, hate the sin'.

I didn't decide to be an Atheist because I didn't know religious thinking

bermuDa · 11-26-2004, 10:36 AM

didn't you read the fine print? god loves everyone as long as they are like-minded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macheath

Yeah, the term "hate crime" is just a throwback to the Clinton years anyway.

We live in a different age now.

Let's call it terrorism.

this gave me a chuckle

omega2K4 · 11-26-2004, 12:19 PM

Let them duke it out, hopefully the religious nutcases will die out from the fighting.

Pip · 11-26-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Old saying is 'Love the sinner, hate the sin'.

I've also heard 'Love the sinner, forgive the sin'.

If only those people used their time and energy to do useful things like, say, helping the poor or sick, instead of sneaking around with oil and salt. That would be nice.

OFKU0 · 11-26-2004, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

You didn't pay close enough attention. God loves everyone, even the sinner

You are right. I was distracted by a picture of a very hot looking Eve in a garden with a thick serpent sliding up her leg. That was my first exposure to anime porn when I was in Sunday school. Ahhh,...the pieces are finally coming together.

pocon1 · 11-27-2004, 04:17 PM

I'll clean the church for a thousand dollars, I got me a new shop-vac.

11-24-2004, 04:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The only really scary thing to me is the hate crime bit. Hate crime laws are stupid, a crime is a crime, who cares what the movtive is. Is killing someone LESS a crime if you did it for money? Dumb PC laws. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-26-2004, 12:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	Let them duke it out, hopefully the religious nutcases will die out from the fighting. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

11-24-2004, 04:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
JJRousseau Psycho Location: Vancouver, Canada	There's is so much hating going on, where do they find the time to come up with those great names. [dripping sarcasm] Not much of a blasting rebuke by the pastor.

11-27-2004, 04:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	I'll clean the church for a thousand dollars, I got me a new shop-vac.