splck

This kind of belief always makes me laugh. The US doesn't have the monopoly on freedom in the world. You guys have some freedoms that others don't have, just as others have freedoms you don't have. What some consider a freedom, others could care less about. I realize this may be hard for some to accept, but it's a reality none the less.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to move away from your birth country if it no longer holds the values you hold. Lots of people give up their citizenship each year because not everyone wants to be an American.

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nice line eh?

psyday

You realize Canada fought with us in Afghanistan, Australia is fighting with us in Iraq and Afghanistan and has fought with us in EVERY action...

Oh yeah, and Neil Diamond didn't sing They Comin' to Canada for a reason.

Lockjaw

And the folks in the civil rights movement had the ability to pick up and move if they so wanted. They didn't and they fought. That is the right thing to do.
These folks obviously don't want to do that they just want something gifted to them so I gladly appreciate them leaving if they don't want to work for it.

Did you sleep through the first three chapters of US History or something?
You do realize that's what the first settlers of America DID right? They left and found some place they did like.

Your's seem to be just as murky as mine are hombre.

Lockjaw

Just curious if the more conservative folks who voted for Bush said they would move to let say Mexico ,because they wanted to get away from the possible chaos and moral decay that may or may not follow Kerry's election, would you or would you not scoff at that line of reasoning?

Charlatan

[QUOTE=feelgood]Lets assume for a moment there that's what the Americans who wants to move to Canada are thinking...

1. Our legal system is even worse: It's very very very easy on offender.That's an exageration to be sure...
This is untrue. My father in law needed a similar surgery and had the operation within weeks of diagnosis... He needed it relatively quickly. Others don't need it all that quickly. For example, when did Bill Clinton find out that he needed that surgery? As far as I remember hearing, it was a month or so before the "scheduled" surgery. In Canada, like anywhere, if you need it now you get it now, otherwise you get scheduled.


First of all, this is another generalization. Yes there are problems with the system... what system is perfect. I don't know what you are talking about... I don't pay any extra bills to send my kid to school. Our University tuitions are still much lower than those south of the boarder.

Our electoral system has issues but they are paltry compared to other system's issues. The system is hardly stone age. It is a parlimentary system of government.

Yes, we pay higher taxes... but if you think our tax is high try living in Sweden... We get plenty of services for our taxes. It is a trade off... Taxed to death is an exageration. After taxes I still have enough to pay all my bills and buy all that crap I don't need.


Of course it is... have you read the immigration sites for any country... what would you expect but positive marketing?

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Konichiwaneko

Lol two canadians argueing reminds me of two americans argueing. Leads me to the conclusion that no matter where you go, someone will disagree with you, so why leave?

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Suave

Yeah they were. An American is a person with American citizenship. Or wait, let's arbitrarily define Americans some more! I define a REAL American as someone who is willing to leave their country if their candidate doesn't win. No, let's change that. A real American is someon who works at Burger King! No, wait...

Anyways, now that I'm done being an ass, I hope most of these Americans move to Alberta. Maybe they can pull our votes enough to the left to avoid political situations like our current one (stupid Klein).

Feelgood, I hope you realise that your post is almost completely opinion. Do you expect that you'll sway Americans by stating your opinion on matters?

"The legal system is too easy on offenders" *stamp* OPINION
"We get taxed to death" *stamp* OPINION
"Our medical system is failing" *stamp* OPINION
"Our educational system is failing" *stamp* OPINION

:::OshnSoul:::

I know I may sound like I am for moving to Canada, I'm only playing around, I wouldn't actually do it.
I am willing to give Bush the benefit of the doubt here and hopefully he will put us back on track. I am not going to sit in fear or run from it either- my goal is to be the little raindrop of light, spreading my passions for life and current issues through music and poetry. Every little drop adds to a puddle which can grow into an ocean.

Redgirl

I said I was moving to New Zealand if Bush got re-elected (sorry, Canada's too fucking cold for me!). I was mainly joking, but I am truly scared of what another 4 yrs of Bush means for our country. And it's not so much that my guy lost or whatever, it's the mindset of a people who would vote for such an obvious idiot that really troubles me. It's the ethnocentric attitude of Americans that we are de facto better than everyone else and that it's somehow our responsibility to make every country just like us. Why do so many people here believe that?

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Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

Konichiwaneko

Are we so smart that we can call other people idiots?

I'm sorry I can't justify judging someones intelligence if I don't know them personally.

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splck

Yup, and it happens all the time..

Well I can, and I think he's an idiot.

What does knowing the guy personally have to do with judging him an idiot or not? Are you saying the people that think he's an intelligent leader are flawed in their assessment?

I've often wondered the same thing..

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nice line eh?

Blackthorn

I like you more and more every time I read one of your posts!

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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

Konichiwaneko

"What does knowing the guy personally have to do with judging him an idiot or not? Are you saying the people that think he's an intelligent leader are flawed in their assessment?"

Life is easier if you better yourself, then belittle others. If your shining light is to take someone down, then that's all game for you. I would rather give out respect then give insults.

I think finding faults in others exposes your own. I'm not saying I don't do that myself, but in a general attitude sort of way I try avoiding at all cost labelling people idiots. Calling someone an idiot doesn't do anything. It doesn't better them, better you, or change the situation.

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Janey

Absolutely! maybe we can send some of the whiners from here down to the great ole' south. Every time i hear somebody complaining about our healthcare, taxes, whatever, I just want to cringe. Firstly, they don't have a clue what it's like in other countries.

Secondly, with a population of 32 million, but a realistic taxable base of only the wage-earners of that population, plus what ever business/corp contributions can be collected, How are we ever to afford the platinum social services that seems to be expected? yes we are taxed to death. Apparantly all of the money that I make up until the middle of June goes into taxation of one sort or the other. But it used to be worse, I remember when the first week of july was tax free day, so things are changing. But theres a price to pay in level of service.

This is huge country, second largest in the world, and we have to support it's infrastructure on what is basically the same population of California (give or take). So if the social programmes developed post WWII have put us into debt, don't whine about it when the solutions cause less than superior service. Move, or contribute.

Anyways that's my rant. I 've seen the way things are in Europe, and China (where my parents come from) oh yes, and Korea and Sri Lanka, as well as the USA. So believe me that if you can take the weather, which isn't so dissimilar to most of the US, this is a fantastic country.

it's the whiners I don't like. Trade?

Janey

I think that is just a motto, we're as free as anybody else. At least within the parameters of a written charter (or bill) of rights.

We have our own machinery to be puppets to. Usually they are puppets to machinery from the elephant next door...

Janey

We're still in Afghanistan. Have been since Day One and we don't intend to leave until the job is done. That's one of the (logistical) reasons why we cannot contribute to Iraq. No resources, because we are also heavily committed to Bosnia, Haiti and Rwanda.

cj22009

I hate to be the one that burst alot of people's bubble but the United States's isnt a democracy. Its a capitalistic goverment a goverment of law when the fore fathers found this country no were did in any document does it say us the goverment should provide health care education or we should be equal financialy and just because some body has more money than some one else they shouldn't have to pay more taxes. We all have opportunity's to make it in this country granted some may be better than others but its still their for everyone. Also before any one accuses me of being rich or being a religious zelot neither of those or true I just think things in this country have gotten out of hand as far as taxes and hand outs are concerned.

psyday

Yep, and anyone that thinks poorly of Canada probably doesn't have a clue as to the effort they have made in helping the U.S. and other nations. I love Canada and Canadians, I just don't want to move there.

Charlatan

Cheers Janey... good rebuttals all!

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Janey

lol - are you talking about my butt???

MSD

I think it was Lebell who said that despite the fact that one party is in control of all branches, the branches are not under the control of the president. When they are, we can start talking about running north or taking up arms, because that's when we aren't free anymore.

I might move to Canada in a couple of years, once I'm out of college, just for a different experince. It would be kind of nice to have dual citizenship; there's no way in hell I'll abandon my home unless I can no longer recognize it as that.

Suave

I'd like to introduce you to my little friend, mister comma: ,
Hopefully at some point in the not-so-distant future, you'll come to know and love that little guy.
As to the content of your post (what can be decyphered), while the United States is not a "true" democracy as far as the original Greek method of government, it is still a representative democracy, and falls within the category of governments that are referred to as democracies. I'm not sure why you brought it up, since it's not relevant to any of the other statements you make, but I felt a need to clarify that point for you.

mattevil

I may move to Canada. Political reasons is one factor but not a major one. I'm a film student and I've met some contacts in school that are willing to help me out in Toronto. Won't be there for at least 2 years though.

StephenSa

Actually, my wife looked at the Canadian immigration site. I think I'd move there, not just to run from Bush (though I worry for this country under his "leadership") but just for a change. I'd have to visit first and see what its like. Now Scotland, I'd move to Scotland tomorrow if given a chance. Absolutely beautiful country and more pubs than I could visit in a lifetime.

Averett

I'm moving to Canada. At least I hope to. Spring 2005. Doesn't give me much planning time!

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Charlatan

If you'd like me to... sure.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

Yay Averette!

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Janey

Way to go Averett! It wont be long before you're thoroughly aclimatized and doing all those 'Canadian' things: visiting the mall with your new-found friends, getting lunch at Taco Bell or McDonald's and shopping at Sears, The Pottery Barn or the Sony Store! Take in a few movies at the AMC!

Don't worry, if you get homesick, all you have to do is turn the all the packaging on things around to display the English side!

Janey

As long as you aren't mean about it...

Cynthetiq

I would like to be expatriated to another country, but that's a choice based on experience rather than politics.

Having lived in other countries before I know that each has it's pluses and minuses, and it's not always greener on the other side.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Lockjaw

You got a deal! We'll send the populace of Massachusetts and South Florida up tomorrow. The Californians the day after that but ONLY if you guys agree to stick them some place cold and out of the way.

Charlatan

Hey we have a lot (and by that I mean A LOT) of out of the way places that are very, very cold.

Though I think it would be better if we just annexed California, Florida or maybe Hawaii...

The Empire of Canada is not such a far fetched idea... is it?

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

spindles

But what is freedom?

I think it would take a lot of courage to uproot a family and move to another country. On the other hand, hundreds do it everyday, so there must be something to it. I guess, though, moving from USA to Canada might be likened to moving from California to New York. Does the border really cause too much difference?

In my opinion, the differences between US, Canada and Australia are not that large - based on 30+ years in Australia, about 3 days in Canada and 3 weeks in the US

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Charlatan

The differences are subtle to be sure... but they are there...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Zeraph

"
Quote:
We wouldn't even have America since our forefathers should "go find some place they do like."

Did you sleep through the first three chapters of US History or something?
You do realize that's what the first settlers of America DID right? They left and found some place they did like."

Sorry, by forefathers I meant the people who fought the British to become independent. I'm sure you knew what I meant, and there's nothing murky about my argument.

Lockjaw

I knew what you attempted to say but butchered yes. The problem with that statement our FOUNDING fathers wouldn't have had reason or ability to fight for independance had our true fore fathers not bothered to pick up and move.
I'm just saying if you don't like things either change it or shut up and get the hell out you won't be missed. Those that would be willing to run to Canada because they lost ONE election because they couldn't convince like minded people to get out and vote aren't the kind of people that will change anything. They will sit and complain endlessly about any little thing that doesn't go their way and likely a change of scenery won't fix that either. So if Canada wants to take our complainers that sit on their butts and mewl all day fine by me. I'll help you pack just don't ask to come back.

Lockjaw

You can have Cali and Hawaii but not Florida. My Miami Dolphins are in Florida. And if you take Hawaii we get all of British Columbia. That's an even trade.

Suave

Throw in Alaska and we'll think about it.

Lockjaw

You can have Maine and you have to promise to keep smacktards like Pamela Anderson,Avril, and Shania North of the border and that's our final offer.

Konichiwaneko

no way, Shania can stay here. She's uber hot

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