A word to the wise: LJ Author visited by Secret Service - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 10-28-2004, 02:35 PM

I was reading journals and one journal led me to another which lead me to this...link

Quote:

a word to the wise
For all my LJ-loving friends, this is a word of warning, a word to the wise, and a word of utter exhaustion after the wringer I've been put through in the last twenty-four hours.

A couple of weeks ago, following the last presidential debate, I said some rather inflammatory things about George W. Bush in a public post in my LJ, done in a satirical style. We laughed, we ranted, we all said some things. I thought it was a fairly harmless (and rather obvious) attempt at humor in the face of annoyance, and while a couple of people were offended, as is typical behavior from me, I saw something shiny and forgot about it, thinking that the whole thing was over and done and nothing else would come of what I said.

I was wrong.

At 9:45 last night, the Secret Service showed up on my mother's front door to talk to me about what I said about the President, as what I said could apparently be misconstrued as a threat to his life. After about ten minutes of talking to me and my family, they quickly came to the conclusion that I was not a threat to national security (mostly because we are the least threatening people in the entire world) and told me that they would not recommend that any further action be taken with my case. However, I do now have a file with the FBI that includes my photograph, my e-mail address, and the location of my LJ. This will follow me around for the rest of my life, regardless of the fact that the Secret Service knows that I am not a threat.

Obviously, I cannot link to the original LJ post that I made, because I have removed it from my LJ to protect myself and those who commented in that thread from receiving any further visits from the FBI. I apologized for the miscommunication, though I did *not* apologize for voicing my opinion of George W. Bush. I will never apologize for speaking my mind. I will, however, apologize when I say something wrong way and for unintentionally offending/threatening someone, because I am an extremely nonviolent person.

After having consulted an attorney to make sure that speaking about what happened to me will not incur another visit from the Secret Service, I am making this public post to tell you all several things:

1. Once and for all, I want to state for the record, again: I am a nonviolent person. As I told the Sekkrit Service last night, I don't know how to operate a gun. I've never had any military training. I don't even know how to throw a punch. I failed gym. I duck and cover when threatened with violence. I've said before that I could never join the military because I would totally start crying and wuss out and be the worst soldier ever, not because I want to sabotage the government, but because I'm just not cut out for it. Totally respect anyone and everyone who does, but me, personally? You don't WANT me in your army. In fact, you want me on the OTHER GUY'S team, because I will undoubtedly fuck things up. I'm a klutz.

2. Actually, #1 is so important that I'm repeating it again: Despite my occasional liberal ranting, I am a NONVIOLENT INDIVIDUAL. I would NEVER encourage others to harm another person, let alone the President of the United States, and I would never actually wish any serious bodily harm to come to him. I may wish other things (like I wish he would get thrown out of office in disgrace, or I wish that he would learn how to pronounce the word "nuclear", or I wish that he'd totally go apeshit on television and ruin himself by saying things like "RAAAAH I JUST SNORTED A BUNCH OF COKE AND I HATE OUR COUNTRY AND I BOUGHT MY PRESIDENCY RAAAAH!!!!11"), but I would NEVER wish bodily harm on another human being. It's just not my way.

3. What happened to me CAN happen to you. This is really the main reason why I am posting this publicly. I WANT you to make an example out of me. I want you to tell your friends to be CAREFUL about what they say on the Internet, because someone IS reading it and it CAN come back and bite you on the ass. And as nice as the Sekkrit Service dudes were (and honestly, they WERE very nice – we even gave them coffee and shit, and they laughed with us and were generally very cool about the entire situation), you don't want them coming to your house. It's just not very fun. Because …

4. What you say on the Internet can affect your real life. Due to what I said online, I now have an FBI file. And due to certain policies that a certain administration has instituted, I could now be placed on the government's "no-fly" list, could be subject to random searches of private property without my knowledge or permission, and could be subject to wiretapping surveillance. I doubt that any of these things will happen (except with the "no-fly" list – according to my attorney, that's a strong possibility and is something we are looking into), and I could just be being paranoid, but after the Secret Service showed up on my doorstep, I think I'm entitled to a little paranoia. Because shit, I never thought THAT would happen, either. So be aware.

5. What happened to me happened because someone on LJ reported me to the FBI. This is not idle speculation on my part. The Secret Service agent told me as much last night – the reason why they were there was because the FBI received a report about my post. It was not found through Google or through keyword searches. It was found through someone on LJ. This is just … mind-boggling and ridiculously wanky. I have my suspicions about who may have turned me in, but I'm not going to voice them because, well, what's been done is done. That being said, for anyone else out there who wants to get snarky and report others to the FBI, I'm telling you this right now: because of what happened to me, I am now going to have an FBI file following me around for the rest of my life. This may cause future problems for me in several different aspects of my life, and that kind of damage is permanent. So, yes, I am upset by the knowledge that someone on LJ would do that to me, but it teaches a valuable (if sad) lesson: you cannot trust LiveJournal, and you cannot trust fandom.

6. Because of what happened to me, I will now have to make changes to the way I use my LJ. I have always been very open on LiveJournal. I have never locked posts unless they directly dealt with my RL, and I have never deleted comments that others have made in my LJ. However, in order to protect myself (and YOU) legally, I am going to have to start carefully monitoring comments made in my LJ. I do not think the FBI will continue to monitor this journal, but I refuse to take chances with my life. So consider this a word of warning: If you make a comment in my journal that could in any way be misconstrued as a threat against any high-ranking official, I will have to delete it. It's nothing personal. It's just self-protection.

7. In spite of what happened to me, I will not lock any political posts I make, nor will I stop making political posts. This is important. I will not allow any form of government to make me afraid of voicing my own opinion. The way that I voice my opinion will certainly be impacted by what happened, but I will not stop talking altogether. And neither should you. I don't want to discourage my friends from speaking their minds. I simply want to tell y'all that you have to be ridiculously careful about how you do it, because otherwise, you can get into trouble.

I did make a locked and filtered post last night after all this first happened, because, well, I needed to talk about it. And I want to thank everyone who commented in that thread and gave me support and WTF and information, because it was EXTREMELY helpful and comforting in a time of great stress and OMGWTFBBQ THE SEKKRIT SERVICE CAME TO MY HOUSE OMG

Now, at this juncture, I am not planning on making any kind of formal complaint with the A.C.L.U., as some on my friendslist have suggested. I did not feel that my civil rights were violated by the visit, and I did not feel intimidated by the Secret Service agents. I have, however, contacted an attorney simply because I want to ensure that my rights are protected in the future, and because the Secret Service were less than clear about what exactly can be construed as a threat and what would be done with my FBI file and any medical records they requested. I am not making any efforts to contact the media, and I doubt that I will in the future.

HOWEVER.

I want people to be aware that what they say on their LJ can cause problems for them in RL, because I love all of you and I don't wish what happened to me on you. You are more than welcome to discuss this post in your journal, and you are more than welcome to link to it from your journal. If you want to post this in a community, go for it. Hell, if you want to put me on fandom_wank, it's probably not a bad idea. The wankers would have a FIELD DAY with this. I know I would. Please, feel free to make an example out of me. So share this with your friends. Tell them what can happen. It's beneficial to all of us to know that this can happen, and hopefully, it'll prevent something like this from happening again.

Now, with all that said, I really, REALLY need some goddamn porn today. GAAAAAH.

If you did a search here on TFP, you'll find lots of threads on censorship, some on Free Speech, a few on situations like this with the safety of the POTUS.

I was reading the comments which is more interesting than the post itself, which is that there are a number of people who are surprised to think that journals are private thoughts and are safe harbor.

We've had our fair share of this issue, and I must remind people that even if this was a private community, it's easy to cut and paste the text right out.

sadistikdreams · 10-28-2004, 03:07 PM

I think it's BS.

I've written such things, I live in america, it's not like...
*ding dong*. Oh snap, the secret service.

Coppertop · 10-28-2004, 03:13 PM

In other words: watch your mouth, big brother is watching? Thanks, but no thanks. I happen to value the 1st Amendment. Fuck Bush and fuck his scare tactics.

Pragma · 10-28-2004, 03:47 PM

This has nothing to do with Bush - there was a guy on Kuro5hin back in the Clinton days (I think) who made several comments regarding the best way to attack the presidency - such as through the vice president. More information here.

This is not "omg bush scare tactics" - this is the Secret Service doing their job. Anyone who is brought to their attention who threatens the Presidency is investigated. If you do a bad job at work, your company may lose money, or you might get fired, or you might set the project back a week or two. If they do a bad job at work, people die.

Coppertop · 10-28-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragma

This has nothing to do with Bush - there was a guy on Kuro5hin back in the Clinton days (I think) who made several comments regarding the best way to attack the presidency - such as through the vice president. More information here.

This is not "omg bush scare tactics" - this is the Secret Service doing their job. Anyone who is brought to their attention who threatens the Presidency is investigated. If you do a bad job at work, your company may lose money, or you might get fired, or you might set the project back a week or two. If they do a bad job at work, people die.

Unless this is bullshit, which it sounds like. And we all know how Bush is tolerant of dissenting voices.

Mephisto2 · 10-28-2004, 04:05 PM

I agree with Pragma.

This is not Big Brother. This is not the Patriot Act.

This is some doofus "reporting him to the FBI". They did not "listen"; they did not "monitor"; they did not "snoop"; they did not "wire tap"...

In other words, the Secret Service reacted to a formal complaint lodged with the FBI by a concerned citizen [sic] over a perceived threat to the President. That's their job. They HAVE to do this.

If they ignored this, and someone did attack the President, what do you think the repercussions would be? There would be complete and utter uproar (far more over the CIA ignoring "intelligence" over the 9/11 attack). Can you imagine the headlines?

"Secret Service ignore threat to President"
"FBI blame Secert Secret service for death of President"
"Cross agency co-operation failures raised in Senate inquiry"
"President's death avoidable"
"Secret Service found negligent"
blah blah

Whilst I feel sorry for this guy (more than you may think), please don't get all paranoid and hyped up over this.

1) Some loser reported this guy to the FBI
2) The FBI notified the Service Service
3) The Secret Service call by for coffee and donuts
4) The Secret Service have a laugh, but follow the book
5) The guy now has a file
6) We feel sorry for him

That's what happened. That's what is supposed to happen. It's no different from what would have happened pre 9/11 or during the Clinton years.

Anyone remember the scene in Taxi Driver where Travis talks to the Secret Service agent?

Mr Mephisto

Boo · 10-28-2004, 04:38 PM

http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml#protect

Quote:

Who is the Secret Service authorized to protect?

By law, the Secret Service is authorized to protect the President, Vice President, President-elect, Vice President-elect, and their immediate family members; former Presidents and their spouses; minor children of a former President until the age of 16; major Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates, and within 120 days of the general election, their spouses; visiting foreign heads of government or heads of state; and others if authorized by the President. An individual who receives Secret Service protection is referred to as a "protectee." In 1997, Congressional legislation became effective limiting Secret Service protection to former Presidents for a period of not more than 10 years from the date the President leaves office. (Public Law 103-329)

How does the Secret Service "protect" the President?

The Secret Service strives to maintain a safe environment for the President and other protectees. To accomplish this task, the Secret Service calls upon other federal, state and local agencies to assist on a daily basis. For example, when the President is at the White House, the Secret Service Uniformed Division, the Metropolitan Police Department, and the U.S. Park Police patrol the streets and parks nearby. The Secret Service Technical Security Division regularly consults with experts from other agencies. The military supports the Secret Service through the use of Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) and communications resources. When the President travels, an advance team of Secret Service agents works with the host city and state law enforcement and public safety officials to jointly establish the security measures needed to protect him.

How can I report a threat towards a protectee?

Contact your nearest USSS field office (listed in the "Emergency Numbers" section in the front of most phone books.

The Secret Service does not desire or solicit information pertaining to individuals or groups expressing legitimate criticism of, or political opposition to, the policies and decisions of the government of government officials. However, we are interested in legitimate information relating to threats, plans or attempts by individuals, groups or organizations to harm USSS protectees.

What types of crimes does the Secret Service investigate?

The Secret Service has primary jurisdiction to investigate threats against Secret Service protectees; counterfeiting of U.S. currency or other U.S. Government obligations; forgery or theft of U.S. Treasury checks, bonds or other securities; credit card fraud; telecommunications fraud; computer fraud; identify fraud; and certain other crimes affecting federally insured financial institutions.

It is not President Bush's rule. It is the job of the Secret Service to investigate VALID threats and has been for some time.

After hearing 21 years of briefings on the subject while in the USAF, I know for a fact that US military personel are bound by the UCMJ to report all treats.

I am sure Halx would love it if the Secret Service knocked on his door and confiscated his server so they could investigate a "suspicious post". What great information (and pics) might be lost.

Link

Quote:

1528 Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency; Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret Service Protectees

Several decisions have cast light on the scope of 18 U.S.C. § 871 and the requisite intent which must be proved in prosecutions thereunder. Proof that threatening words were uttered in a context such that a reasonable person would interpret them as mere political hyperbole, idle talk, or jest indicates that the words do not constitute a threat within the scope of the statute. However, it is the view of the Department that an actual intent to carry out a threat is not a requisite to violation of the statute.

See bold statement.

IMO - I cannot ever foresee a reason for ANY citizen of the US to threaten the President of the United States. It is irresponsible and immature. I believe that a person can voice their opinions without threatening the president and still be taken seriously based on the content of their message.

Mephisto2 · 10-28-2004, 04:41 PM

I didn't know the Secret Service investigated credit card fraud. Surely this must keep them very busy?!!

Thanks for the info boo. You've supported what I said with real information and links, rather than my simple statement of fact.

Mr Mephisto

JaySpencer · 10-28-2004, 05:07 PM

The skeptic in me thinks that this may be a load of malarky, that it never happened. The conspiracist and pragmatic in me thinks that this did happen. It is entirely plausable and not entirely out of reason, but it's the timing of things like this that I take pause over.

I will confess that, as an owner of anther forum, made a BIG point of pointing out to a member who made a post title that said something that I considered, as did our members, an implied threat to President Bush. I spent many hours thinking it over, and then posted my objections to what was said. This was not because of negativity towards a public official, but because what had been said was RIGHT on the line where I had a concern that if it was left unchecked that it could have spun out of control and I as the owner and a US resident could have been getting that Secret Service knock on the door too and also our fellow members.

Boo · 10-28-2004, 05:12 PM

Jay,

Google is our friend. There are several links to website antics that had to be investigated. If I had a website, I would not have a problem with people who can only express themselves with threats of violence, they would be gone. I have no tolerance for a threat to anyone, let alone our president. Spending our tax dollars going to investigate such matters is repulsive.

Boo

edited: because I like long run-on sentences.

Mephisto2 · 10-28-2004, 05:13 PM

Why malarky?

It's not as if he's claiming the Secret Service were snooping. Some idiot simply reported him. Once that happens they are obliged to investigate if they think it's worth it. Sounds entirely believable to me. We don't know what he said.

I can't see any benefit from lying about this. And it HAS happened in the past.

Mr Mephisto

JJRousseau · 10-28-2004, 05:17 PM

It does sound a bit "over the top" However, the secret service did come calling on friends of mine at their home in Canada and it was not a pleasant experience.

Lebell · 10-28-2004, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

If they ignored this, and someone did attack the President, what do you think the repercussions would be? There would be complete and utter uproar (far more over the CIA ignoring "intelligence" over the 9/11 attack). Can you imagine the headlines?

Bingo, we have a winner.

Paranoia can be a good thing, but in this case, it appears to be unwarranted.

beteez2 · 10-28-2004, 06:03 PM

what is LJ?

dobster · 10-28-2004, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beteez2

what is LJ?

Give the thread another read. Its explained in the first post.

You'll enjoy this thread more if you read it good and proper.

Cynthetiq · 10-28-2004, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaySpencer

The skeptic in me thinks that this may be a load of malarky, that it never happened. The conspiracist and pragmatic in me thinks that this did happen. It is entirely plausable and not entirely out of reason, but it's the timing of things like this that I take pause over.

I will confess that, as an owner of anther forum, made a BIG point of pointing out to a member who made a post title that said something that I considered, as did our members, an implied threat to President Bush. I spent many hours thinking it over, and then posted my objections to what was said. This was not because of negativity towards a public official, but because what had been said was RIGHT on the line where I had a concern that if it was left unchecked that it could have spun out of control and I as the owner and a US resident could have been getting that Secret Service knock on the door too and also our fellow members.

That is correct, there's a thread in the Politics room about the freedom of speech surrounding such things like this... I had to convince the member that it was in their best interest to change their post so as to make it less inviting to the Secret Service team, which after just a few hours he did change it.

edit: I couldn't find that thread, but did find a more recent one here.

I have read more and more comments and really the crux of why I posted this isn't about the free speech aspect, but more the run ins that people have when internet meets real life. Lots of posts of people who've created hardships at the office, with girfriends or boyfriends, family members, etc. Amazing.

Mephisto2 · 10-28-2004, 07:43 PM

The internet is alive. Sometimes it comes around and bites you in the ass.

Hey.. I like that analogy.

Mr Mephisto

Pragma · 10-28-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

I didn't know the Secret Service investigated credit card fraud. Surely this must keep them very busy?!!

The Secret Service is part of the US Department of Treasury, which means that they investigate all kinds of currency fraud, credit fraud, etc. - in addition to their task of protecting the lives of the President and other important officials.

whocarz · 10-29-2004, 04:49 PM

I've heard of this happening before. It brought up memories of reading an article from seanbaby.com about such a situation. While the website is, sadly, no longer updated, the article is still there.

http://www.seanbaby.com/cleveland/part3.html

I find the site absolutely fucking hysterical, and this story of his is no different. Of course, my sense of humor is just a tad warped.

xepherys · 10-29-2004, 09:04 PM

Another agreeance with Pragma. Though I do think that "threat to the Presidency" should have some black and white rules, and that the public should know what those are. Bush has already shown intolerance at rallies where people who wear shirts that are not even directly against him have been removed from the grounds. That is blatant bullshit.

You know what? I DO have military training, I do NOT cower in the face of violence and I HATE the President. But he is also my Commander-in-Chief, and I pose him exactly no threat whatsoever. However, if I were to go to a Bush rally with a "Bush is scary, vote for Kerry" t-shirt, I should be allowed to stay, damnit!

DelayedReaction · 10-30-2004, 10:25 PM

If I were confronted with a situation similar to the LJ posters, I wouldn't change the way I acted. The SS agents made it clear that they were investigating serious threats to the President, and I doubt they would be at all inclined to suggest I should limit my free speech.

I'm actually encouraged by this; it shows me just how seriously the SS take their job, and how civilly they treat people as they attempt to do it.

mrdarcy · 10-30-2004, 11:21 PM

I totally agree with this guy.
A similar thing happened to me.

I was sitting in my car in the visitor parking lot down from the White House. I was not bothering anyone--just cleaning my gun and listening to some racist rant on some tapes cassettes that I bought online.

Then some up tight bi*ch with her husband and three children pass near my car and the woman give me a dirty look. Well I let her know right away that it is my GD constitutional right to sit in that fuggin parking lot and recycle my beer cans and sh*t. And if she didn't like it she could kiss my tattooed as*.

Story short, Bush must have got word, cause he sent his goons to give me crap. Just like the LJ Author, it only took them a few minutes of talking to my mother to find out that I too am the least threatening person in the whole world.

But now the Bush SS has my picture and what's more, I'm grounded and can't look at porn on my Mom's computer for a while.

Like, I can totally relate. FASIST STATE!

Oh yeah, one more thing. I too want to go through life never ever apologizing for speaking my mind, even it means that I will never date or get a full-time job.

Boo · 10-31-2004, 10:25 AM

mrdarcy....too good! You get an A+!

10-28-2004, 03:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	I think it's BS. I've written such things, I live in america, it's not like... ding dong. Oh snap, the secret service. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

10-28-2004, 05:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	Jay, Google is our friend. There are several links to website antics that had to be investigated. If I had a website, I would not have a problem with people who can only express themselves with threats of violence, they would be gone. I have no tolerance for a threat to anyone, let alone our president. Spending our tax dollars going to investigate such matters is repulsive. Boo edited: because I like long run-on sentences. __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old. Last edited by Boo; 10-28-2004 at 05:38 PM..

10-29-2004, 04:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	I've heard of this happening before. It brought up memories of reading an article from seanbaby.com about such a situation. While the website is, sadly, no longer updated, the article is still there. http://www.seanbaby.com/cleveland/part3.html I find the site absolutely fucking hysterical, and this story of his is no different. Of course, my sense of humor is just a tad warped. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

10-30-2004, 10:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	If I were confronted with a situation similar to the LJ posters, I wouldn't change the way I acted. The SS agents made it clear that they were investigating serious threats to the President, and I doubt they would be at all inclined to suggest I should limit my free speech. I'm actually encouraged by this; it shows me just how seriously the SS take their job, and how civilly they treat people as they attempt to do it. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

10-30-2004, 11:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
mrdarcy Tilted Location: down the street from Graceland	I totally agree with this guy. A similar thing happened to me. I was sitting in my car in the visitor parking lot down from the White House. I was not bothering anyone--just cleaning my gun and listening to some racist rant on some tapes cassettes that I bought online. Then some up tight bich with her husband and three children pass near my car and the woman give me a dirty look. Well I let her know right away that it is my GD constitutional right to sit in that fuggin parking lot and recycle my beer cans and sht. And if she didn't like it she could kiss my tattooed as*. Story short, Bush must have got word, cause he sent his goons to give me crap. Just like the LJ Author, it only took them a few minutes of talking to my mother to find out that I too am the least threatening person in the whole world. But now the Bush SS has my picture and what's more, I'm grounded and can't look at porn on my Mom's computer for a while. Like, I can totally relate. FASIST STATE! Oh yeah, one more thing. I too want to go through life never ever apologizing for speaking my mind, even it means that I will never date or get a full-time job. __________________ [Insert pithy comment here]

10-28-2004, 03:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	In other words: watch your mouth, big brother is watching? Thanks, but no thanks. I happen to value the 1st Amendment. Fuck Bush and fuck his scare tactics.

10-28-2004, 03:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	This has nothing to do with Bush - there was a guy on Kuro5hin back in the Clinton days (I think) who made several comments regarding the best way to attack the presidency - such as through the vice president. More information here. This is not "omg bush scare tactics" - this is the Secret Service doing their job. Anyone who is brought to their attention who threatens the Presidency is investigated. If you do a bad job at work, your company may lose money, or you might get fired, or you might set the project back a week or two. If they do a bad job at work, people die.

10-28-2004, 04:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	I agree with Pragma. This is not Big Brother. This is not the Patriot Act. This is some doofus "reporting him to the FBI". They did not "listen"; they did not "monitor"; they did not "snoop"; they did not "wire tap"... In other words, the Secret Service reacted to a formal complaint lodged with the FBI by a concerned citizen [sic] over a perceived threat to the President. That's their job. They HAVE to do this. If they ignored this, and someone did attack the President, what do you think the repercussions would be? There would be complete and utter uproar (far more over the CIA ignoring "intelligence" over the 9/11 attack). Can you imagine the headlines? "Secret Service ignore threat to President" "FBI blame Secert Secret service for death of President" "Cross agency co-operation failures raised in Senate inquiry" "President's death avoidable" "Secret Service found negligent" blah blah Whilst I feel sorry for this guy (more than you may think), please don't get all paranoid and hyped up over this. 1) Some loser reported this guy to the FBI 2) The FBI notified the Service Service 3) The Secret Service call by for coffee and donuts 4) The Secret Service have a laugh, but follow the book 5) The guy now has a file 6) We feel sorry for him That's what happened. That's what is supposed to happen. It's no different from what would have happened pre 9/11 or during the Clinton years. Anyone remember the scene in Taxi Driver where Travis talks to the Secret Service agent? Mr Mephisto

10-28-2004, 04:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	I didn't know the Secret Service investigated credit card fraud. Surely this must keep them very busy?!! Thanks for the info boo. You've supported what I said with real information and links, rather than my simple statement of fact. Mr Mephisto

10-28-2004, 05:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
JaySpencer Tilted	The skeptic in me thinks that this may be a load of malarky, that it never happened. The conspiracist and pragmatic in me thinks that this did happen. It is entirely plausable and not entirely out of reason, but it's the timing of things like this that I take pause over. I will confess that, as an owner of anther forum, made a BIG point of pointing out to a member who made a post title that said something that I considered, as did our members, an implied threat to President Bush. I spent many hours thinking it over, and then posted my objections to what was said. This was not because of negativity towards a public official, but because what had been said was RIGHT on the line where I had a concern that if it was left unchecked that it could have spun out of control and I as the owner and a US resident could have been getting that Secret Service knock on the door too and also our fellow members.

10-28-2004, 05:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Why malarky? It's not as if he's claiming the Secret Service were snooping. Some idiot simply reported him. Once that happens they are obliged to investigate if they think it's worth it. Sounds entirely believable to me. We don't know what he said. I can't see any benefit from lying about this. And it HAS happened in the past. Mr Mephisto

10-28-2004, 05:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
JJRousseau Psycho Location: Vancouver, Canada	It does sound a bit "over the top" However, the secret service did come calling on friends of mine at their home in Canada and it was not a pleasant experience.

10-28-2004, 06:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
beteez2 Upright Location: ga	what is LJ?

10-28-2004, 07:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	The internet is alive. Sometimes it comes around and bites you in the ass. Hey.. I like that analogy. Mr Mephisto

10-29-2004, 09:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Another agreeance with Pragma. Though I do think that "threat to the Presidency" should have some black and white rules, and that the public should know what those are. Bush has already shown intolerance at rallies where people who wear shirts that are not even directly against him have been removed from the grounds. That is blatant bullshit. You know what? I DO have military training, I do NOT cower in the face of violence and I HATE the President. But he is also my Commander-in-Chief, and I pose him exactly no threat whatsoever. However, if I were to go to a Bush rally with a "Bush is scary, vote for Kerry" t-shirt, I should be allowed to stay, damnit!

10-31-2004, 10:25 AM	#23 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	mrdarcy....too good! You get an A+! __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.