There's a lot about this job that sucks. Are you sure you want it? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ARTelevision · 05-18-2003, 09:39 AM

Looking for a job is usually an exercise in code-breaking.
The way positions are described is not quite what you actually get if you're hired. The position below, as described, sounds a lot more descriptive of what real job conditions and working environments are like.
.................................................

College fills open faculty position through cynical job posting.

SOUTHEAST MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY
Cape Girardeau, Missouri
from Snopes

Enclosed is an announcement of a tenure-track position in philosophy at the rank of assistant professor. We hope to fill this position rapidly; the target date for our final decision is June 13. We are more interested in looking at candidates with reateaching experience than in newly minted Ph.D's, who might have unrealistic expectations about the possibilities for academic growth at an institution such as ours. Southeast Missouri State University is a regional university which serves students in the southeast portion of the state including St. Louis. Our students tend to be poorly prepared for college level work, intellectually passive, interested primarily in partying, and culturally provincial in the extreme. We offer a major in philosophy. but do not usually have more than two students officially declared as majors at any given time.

There are a few good students, however, and we are proud to say that our current graduating major, William Knorpp, won the 1985 Analysis competition and will be undertaking graduate study in philosophy at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill next year. Mr. Knorpp's upper level work was mainly accomplished through independent tutorials; and prospective candidate must understand that there will be virtually no opportunity to teach upper-division seminars in philosophy. We also offer a religious studies minor; most of the students who declare this minor are shocked to learn that Moses might not have written the Pentateuch and regard higher criticism as secular humanist propaganda. The 12 hrs/semester teaching load is devoted mainly to general education courses at the freshman/sophomore level. In another five years, if the general education curriculum is revised as promised, there may be seminars which are to "capstone" the G.E. program.

The academic environment at SEMO is distinctly non-intellectual -- somewhat like a Norman Rockwell painting -- and the candidate cannot expect to attract students by offering courses that assume innate curiosity about ideas and books, or intellectual playfulness, or independence of moral and political thought. Nevertheless. in order to earn promotion and tenure it is necessary to be involved in curriculum development and to sustain an interest in research and publication. It has occurred to me that the best candidate would be someone who has held the Ph.D. for more than two years, has taught at a community college or a rural state institution, and who would like to continue in somewhat the same vein but at a slightly higher level.I will be interviewing at the Central Division Meetings in St. Louis. If you have an questions, you may call me at my office

Origins:
Generally job postings are phrased in such a way as to make the positions offered sound as attractive as possible to prospective applicants (just as applicants craft their résumés to make their qualifications sound as attractive as possible to prospective employers). Occasionally, though, an employer admits up front that the advertised position may be less than ideal in some aspects in order to avoid wasting time interviewing a stream of applicants who immediately become disenchanted upon learning the details of the job, or to head off hiring employees who soon quit after finding out the job wasn't quite what they were expecting.

The job posting quoted above, for the position of assistant professor of philosophy at Southeast Missouri State University (SEMO), went a bit beyond the pale of truth in advertising with its frank admissions that the school's students were "poorly prepared for college level work, intellectually passive, interested primarily in partying, and culturally provincial in the extreme," and could not be assumed to have "innate curiosity about ideas and books, or intellectual playfulness, or independence of moral and political thought," while the philosophy department did "not usually have more than two students officially declared as majors at any given time" and offered the prospective candidate "virtually no opportunity to teach upper-division seminars."

Although the job market for tenure-track positions in academia is so tight that even this brutally honest job posting would probably draw plenty of applicants, it wasn't intended as a genuine advertisement. The text was written in a fit of frustration by SEMO's then-Chairman of the Department of Philosophy back in 1986 and posted to the Internet (without his permission) by someone else. Nonetheless, this cynically-worded advertisement accomplished its goal, as the academic magazine Lingua Franca reported several years later:

Graduate school Deans regularly wring their hands over the miserable job market for new PhD's. And just as regularly they earnestly resolve to disclose the delicate fact that even if their students do get a job, it may well be at an obscure institution that bears little resemblance to a distinguished research university.

Maybe there's a better way to break the bad news: honest job postings. This April, for example an unusually frank search announcement popped up on the Internet. The posting was so frank, in fact, that many net-browsers assumed it was a hoax.

Well, it's no hoax -- but the position's already been filled, thank you. In fact, it was filled nine years ago. Hamner Hill, who was then a doctoral student in philosophy at Washington University, St. Louis, spied the posting on his department's bulletin board, and Southeast Missouri State hired him soon after. "I figured that whoever wrote this must be fun to work for," he says.

So how's it been working with Southeast Missouri's "intellectually passive students"? Don't feel sorry for Hill: He's now the chair of the department, and says he's built the program into "one of the prides of the school." In fact, he boasts, "we now have about twenty-five philosophy majors a year." (One wonders how many are contemplating grad school.)
In 1995 this ad was resurrected when someone posted it to a philosophy discussion group; from there it spread across the Internet and -- even though SEMO had no such position open -- again proved an effective advertisement. H. Hamner Hill, now the department chair at SEMO, reported that his department received "dozens of calls" from interested applicants.
..........................................................................

Did you get the same job that was described to you up front?
Or is your actual on-the-job experience a far cry from what you expected.
In hindsight, were you lied to - or at least was the job misrepresented - when you read the ad or had the interview?

gov135 · 05-18-2003, 09:50 AM

I'm up for a job (next interview is Tuesday - good thoughts are appreciated).

The job description is such smoke - but you can see through it. I have a feeling that this job has a pretty high turnover - but the pay is wonderful.

In the interview on Tuesday I am really gonna get after what the job is really about. And that's my advice. Noone really understands job postings, so you really can't be afraid to develop and pose probing questions that get at what you need to know!

Dragonlich · 05-18-2003, 10:42 AM

Well, I'll be starting as a computer salesman in a computer store tomorrow (wheeeee), so I pretty much know what to expect.

I did respond to an ad about a "traffic analyst" for the city of Amsterdam. It turned out to be a job where you'd be programming traffic lights most of the time. Not exactly as advertised... I was actually glad they decided not to hire me.

billege · 05-18-2003, 10:48 AM

I've been working contract security for the past 5 years. The industry thirves on capturing not too bright individuals who are told they will have something to do. They also like to grab college students who may hate the job, but need a 40 hour schedule for a job they can study 5 out of 8 hours/day.

No, my job was not as it was described, but I interviewed for it when I was 19, so it's not like I was very aware then anyway.

I just got a new job, and I start on June 2nd. I'll get back to you on if it's like they said.

TheIceMan · 05-18-2003, 11:09 AM

Thank you for posting that. It really is refreshing to read something with such candor and such sarcasm. It's equally nice to hear that the person who was hired eventually became the dean of the dept. Makes me feel good about life.

Cynthetiq · 05-18-2003, 01:28 PM

yes, my new position is exactly as it was explained to me, as was even the first position that I started with the company 7 years ago.

rogue49 · 05-18-2003, 01:48 PM

I love it.

Gee, I wish someone had accurately described my position.
I was doing more & totally different things when I got in.
And they just kept piling it on.

Brutal honesty, that would be nice for a change.

sbscout · 05-18-2003, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
... we are proud to say that our current graduating major, William Knorpp, won the 1985 Analysis competition and will be undertaking graduate study in philosophy at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill next year.

Art, when I first read this I was thinking, "My God, they haven't had a current graduate since 1985?!" LOL!

Quote:

Did you get the same job that was described to you up front?
Or is your actual on-the-job experience a far cry from what you expected.
In hindsight, were you lied to - or at least was the job misrepresented - when you read the ad or had the interview?

I was warned when I entered the school of education that I was training for a thankless, low-paying, frustrating job. Well, they were right... at times. It's also the most rewarding and satisfying job I've ever had. It's still fun to see the "light" go on when a student finally learns something. That's payment enough.

05-18-2003, 09:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	There's a lot about this job that sucks. Are you sure you want it? Looking for a job is usually an exercise in code-breaking. The way positions are described is not quite what you actually get if you're hired. The position below, as described, sounds a lot more descriptive of what real job conditions and working environments are like. ................................................. College fills open faculty position through cynical job posting. SOUTHEAST MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY Cape Girardeau, Missouri from Snopes Enclosed is an announcement of a tenure-track position in philosophy at the rank of assistant professor. We hope to fill this position rapidly; the target date for our final decision is June 13. We are more interested in looking at candidates with reateaching experience than in newly minted Ph.D's, who might have unrealistic expectations about the possibilities for academic growth at an institution such as ours. Southeast Missouri State University is a regional university which serves students in the southeast portion of the state including St. Louis. Our students tend to be poorly prepared for college level work, intellectually passive, interested primarily in partying, and culturally provincial in the extreme. We offer a major in philosophy. but do not usually have more than two students officially declared as majors at any given time. There are a few good students, however, and we are proud to say that our current graduating major, William Knorpp, won the 1985 Analysis competition and will be undertaking graduate study in philosophy at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill next year. Mr. Knorpp's upper level work was mainly accomplished through independent tutorials; and prospective candidate must understand that there will be virtually no opportunity to teach upper-division seminars in philosophy. We also offer a religious studies minor; most of the students who declare this minor are shocked to learn that Moses might not have written the Pentateuch and regard higher criticism as secular humanist propaganda. The 12 hrs/semester teaching load is devoted mainly to general education courses at the freshman/sophomore level. In another five years, if the general education curriculum is revised as promised, there may be seminars which are to "capstone" the G.E. program. The academic environment at SEMO is distinctly non-intellectual -- somewhat like a Norman Rockwell painting -- and the candidate cannot expect to attract students by offering courses that assume innate curiosity about ideas and books, or intellectual playfulness, or independence of moral and political thought. Nevertheless. in order to earn promotion and tenure it is necessary to be involved in curriculum development and to sustain an interest in research and publication. It has occurred to me that the best candidate would be someone who has held the Ph.D. for more than two years, has taught at a community college or a rural state institution, and who would like to continue in somewhat the same vein but at a slightly higher level.I will be interviewing at the Central Division Meetings in St. Louis. If you have an questions, you may call me at my office Origins: Generally job postings are phrased in such a way as to make the positions offered sound as attractive as possible to prospective applicants (just as applicants craft their résumés to make their qualifications sound as attractive as possible to prospective employers). Occasionally, though, an employer admits up front that the advertised position may be less than ideal in some aspects in order to avoid wasting time interviewing a stream of applicants who immediately become disenchanted upon learning the details of the job, or to head off hiring employees who soon quit after finding out the job wasn't quite what they were expecting. The job posting quoted above, for the position of assistant professor of philosophy at Southeast Missouri State University (SEMO), went a bit beyond the pale of truth in advertising with its frank admissions that the school's students were "poorly prepared for college level work, intellectually passive, interested primarily in partying, and culturally provincial in the extreme," and could not be assumed to have "innate curiosity about ideas and books, or intellectual playfulness, or independence of moral and political thought," while the philosophy department did "not usually have more than two students officially declared as majors at any given time" and offered the prospective candidate "virtually no opportunity to teach upper-division seminars." Although the job market for tenure-track positions in academia is so tight that even this brutally honest job posting would probably draw plenty of applicants, it wasn't intended as a genuine advertisement. The text was written in a fit of frustration by SEMO's then-Chairman of the Department of Philosophy back in 1986 and posted to the Internet (without his permission) by someone else. Nonetheless, this cynically-worded advertisement accomplished its goal, as the academic magazine Lingua Franca reported several years later: Graduate school Deans regularly wring their hands over the miserable job market for new PhD's. And just as regularly they earnestly resolve to disclose the delicate fact that even if their students do get a job, it may well be at an obscure institution that bears little resemblance to a distinguished research university. Maybe there's a better way to break the bad news: honest job postings. This April, for example an unusually frank search announcement popped up on the Internet. The posting was so frank, in fact, that many net-browsers assumed it was a hoax. Well, it's no hoax -- but the position's already been filled, thank you. In fact, it was filled nine years ago. Hamner Hill, who was then a doctoral student in philosophy at Washington University, St. Louis, spied the posting on his department's bulletin board, and Southeast Missouri State hired him soon after. "I figured that whoever wrote this must be fun to work for," he says. So how's it been working with Southeast Missouri's "intellectually passive students"? Don't feel sorry for Hill: He's now the chair of the department, and says he's built the program into "one of the prides of the school." In fact, he boasts, "we now have about twenty-five philosophy majors a year." (One wonders how many are contemplating grad school.) In 1995 this ad was resurrected when someone posted it to a philosophy discussion group; from there it spread across the Internet and -- even though SEMO had no such position open -- again proved an effective advertisement. H. Hamner Hill, now the department chair at SEMO, reported that his department received "dozens of calls" from interested applicants. .......................................................................... Did you get the same job that was described to you up front? Or is your actual on-the-job experience a far cry from what you expected. In hindsight, were you lied to - or at least was the job misrepresented - when you read the ad or had the interview? __________________ create evolution

05-18-2003, 10:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I've been working contract security for the past 5 years. The industry thirves on capturing not too bright individuals who are told they will have something to do. They also like to grab college students who may hate the job, but need a 40 hour schedule for a job they can study 5 out of 8 hours/day. No, my job was not as it was described, but I interviewed for it when I was 19, so it's not like I was very aware then anyway. I just got a new job, and I start on June 2nd. I'll get back to you on if it's like they said. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

05-18-2003, 11:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
TheIceMan Insane Location: Trapped in the depths of my mind	Thank you for posting that. It really is refreshing to read something with such candor and such sarcasm. It's equally nice to hear that the person who was hired eventually became the dean of the dept. Makes me feel good about life. __________________ Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today.

05-18-2003, 01:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	yes, my new position is exactly as it was explained to me, as was even the first position that I started with the company 7 years ago. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-18-2003, 09:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	I'm up for a job (next interview is Tuesday - good thoughts are appreciated). The job description is such smoke - but you can see through it. I have a feeling that this job has a pretty high turnover - but the pay is wonderful. In the interview on Tuesday I am really gonna get after what the job is really about. And that's my advice. Noone really understands job postings, so you really can't be afraid to develop and pose probing questions that get at what you need to know!

05-18-2003, 10:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Well, I'll be starting as a computer salesman in a computer store tomorrow (wheeeee), so I pretty much know what to expect. I did respond to an ad about a "traffic analyst" for the city of Amsterdam. It turned out to be a job where you'd be programming traffic lights most of the time. Not exactly as advertised... I was actually glad they decided not to hire me.

05-18-2003, 01:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	I love it. Gee, I wish someone had accurately described my position. I was doing more & totally different things when I got in. And they just kept piling it on. Brutal honesty, that would be nice for a change.