cjgallen

Here's my current situation:

19 years old. Got my 2-year degree this past spring, got a full time job making $20k a year. Still going to school. Still live with my parents.

I want to join the Air Force for several reasons:
1. hate my current job, no satisfaction, pay sucks
2. job security, the civilian world is a scary place
3. serving my country, honor, blah blah
4. retirement after 20 years
5. other benefits

I plan on becoming an officer and doing 20 years or more of service. Looking at the pay charts, it seems pretty damn good, but it's not entirely about the money.

I want to finish my bachelor degree (in Mathematics), got about 2-3 years left if I load up on classes. I'm going to quit my job around December, it's too much time out of the week and I can't focus on school as much as I like. I don't need the money at this point, and paying for college isn't an issue.

I need opinions on the best way of joining.

The local college has an ROTC program, how can that fit in? (I don't know how that works)
How about Texas Air National Guard til I finish my degree? I'd be earning money and accumulating time in the service , but how would that fit in with school? (I know Bush didn't go to Vietnam when he was in, but could I still get shipped out somewhere?)
Or should I just hit the books, finish my degree, then join?

But the real issue: Is a military career for me? What exactly would I be doing in the Guard, and as an officer in the Air Force? I wouldn't consider myself a "leader," but I'm a damn hard worker. Would I still be successful? My biggest fear is that I'd join, totally hate it, get out, and then be back where I started. I don't want that to happen, so I want anyone with thoughts, opinions, or personal experiences to give me some input. I want to be certain I'm making the right decision. (I guess I should talk to a recruiter, heh).

Crack

Well, officer is the way to go, as enlisted, I was treated like shit on a daily basis. I liked Basic Training and Tech School, (Kinda like a trade school) but hated every base I was at. (Robins AFB GA, Azores Portugal) The Air Force is not for everyone, can you mop a floor? Can you stand in one place and look foreward for 30-40 mins at a time?
Just remember, if you decide to become an officer, you are THEIRS, your life as you know it now will be gone. The good and the bad parts. Finish college first, then join, they will tell you that you can go to school part time while you are in, but I knew very few people who actually did, most just did their 4-6 year contract and got out, THEN went to college, like I plan on doing. I was in for 5 years, and then seperated, the pay for officers isn't bad, but for what you will have to put up with... let's just say that I wouldn't go back if they offered me double what I was making. Think LONG and HARD before commiting your self to something you might either hate or love for however many years. If you have any specific questions, ask them here or shoot me a PM and I will be glad to tell you everything I know.
~Crack

...and talking to a recruiter will get you no where in a big hurry, I always said that if I ever saw my recruiter again, I would punch him in the throat.

__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

sailor

One thing: Recruiters will sell their soul to get you to sign on the dotted line. Do NOT take anything they say at face value.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Rodney

If you really want to do this, ROTC is the way to go while in college. There's a lot of work to do, especially during summer, but believe me, they want you to graduate.

If you wait until you get your degree, it's possible to enlist and go into officer's candidate school in some of the services -- Navy, Marines, I know, don't know about Air Force. But as somebody else said, you really have to beware of recruiters. I know a guy who recently graduated with a bachelor's -- he was interested in the Marine, and they wanted him badly, but he told them he wasn't going in except as an officer. It took a _lot_ of back and forth before he got the deal he wanted.

Frankly though, if you've got a degree in math, even an undergrad degree, you are eminently employable in a number of ways. If it's security you want, I'm sure there are a variety of bureaucracies that would hug your to their bosoms and never let you go. Insurance companies, for example: they want actuaries, people who can figure risks for them, and they treat them very well. Or, take an extra year for a teaching certificate and you'll be in high demand as a math teacher just about everywhere you want to go in this country, including in a lot of places that actually pay well.

I would get some serious career counseling before choosing the service, and see what else is out there. You have a valuable degree, one that will give you a lot of security throughout life if you keep up with your field.

irateplatypus

hey,

i'm doing just that. i was kind of in your situation a couple years ago. after finishing 2 years of college i had no idea what i wanted to do. i decided to try to get into the Air Force Academy, but once i got in i decided to do AFROTC instead (my parents promptly had a simultaneous heat attack ). So, I've been involved with AFROTC for the past two years and will be an officer in december.

your questions seem to be more of a general variety, i'll try to give ya my .02 on what i can... please feel free to post questions or pm me if there is more i can help you with.

don't think of yourself as a leader? well, i would say that would be the biggest reason i can see from your post not to join. even if you don't think of yourself as a leader, everybody else sure friggin will... you'll have to perform accordingly. there are a lot of benefits in being an officer (more responsibility/respect, decent pay etc.) but the expectations from your airmen and peers will be high. once you join the AF in any capacity, get ready to be constantly challenged and evaluated on everything you do.

AFROTC has mostly been a good experience. I've spent two years at my local detachment. Our program requires 2 early morning PT sessions a week plus a 3-hour credit class and a "Leadership Laboratory" (where all the cadets gather for a corps-wide exercise). in the summer you'll have to attend a 4 week field training unit. it's kind of like a prospective officer's "basic training" only with a leadership twist. you won't be there merely to survive, but also to be evaluated on your leadership and stress enduring qualities. it isn't that hard, but it weeds out the undesirabels to a certain extent.

your other option would be Officer Candidate School after college. it's a 3-4 month long intense course that is basically AFROTC all squished together.

as a math major you'll have some leverage, but don't assume you can just walk-in and join. for officers, there is a vetting process. joining the officer corps in the AF is a competitive enterprise. there are limited slots and far more people who apply than get accepted. our force-shaping goes on, so the demand varies from year to year according to the "needs of the Air Force" (something you'll hear often.)

hopefully this will help ya out a bit. please post on this thread again if i can help ya out more. i think i would've valued an opinion other than a recruiting officer's when i joined. good luck to ya.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

cj2112

everybody covered pretty much anything i was gonna say, other than this: If your recruiter makes you any promises, they are null and void unless you GET THEM IN WRITING!

JumpinJesus

I'll also echo what others have said. If you have 2 years of college already, continue with your degree and go in as an officer. I spent 5 years enlisted and wished every minute that I had waited and become an officer.

If you do choose to go in enlisted, make sure you have a guaranteed job before you go. Don't let anyone try to bullshit you into a job you don't want, because you'll spend your enlistment regretting it. Also, keep in mind that whatever promises are made to you, once you swear that oath, they own you.

Aside from that, there are great benefits. You'll make lifelong friends with people you would never think of associating with in civilian life. You will feel a sense of doing something worthwhile, even if it seems menial. You will be amazed at how mature you'll be coming out of it, as well.

I look back on my 5 years and realize enlisting was one of the best decisions I could have ever made with my life. As long as you go in with your eyes wide open, there is no reason you can't have a fulfilling time with it, or even make a career out of it.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Rodney

One thing I want to add: apparently, if you are an officer are eventually retire, that's not the same as officially resigning your commission. If you don't resign your commission, the service can call you back any time until age 60. And right now, they're not letting retired officers resign their commissions. There is the potential that as an officer, especially with things as they are now, you'd be taking on a lifetime commitment that you don't expect.

Follow this URL:

http://www.sftt.org/dwarchive.html

Once there, click on the link for the 9/21/04 article, "Is a Commission a Life Sentence?" Can't send you directly there, because the articles are Javascript popups.

Destrox

Also note that currently in the AF , if you are going towards a computer based field, they are heavily OVERSTAFFED atm. You wont move forward very fast when there are 8000+ extra people sitting around wanting the same thing.

I have 2 friends in the services, 1 in the AF and 1 in the NAVY. Both pretty much hate every bit of it because it is nothing like it was said to be. THe AF guy is getting lucky and might be getting a chance to get out early due to the mass amount of extra people they have enlisted. There is also a number good goods to balance these cons, but they sure found it easier to talk to me about the bad.

Find people who are in it, or were in it to get the real answers. Dont listen to a word a recuiter says.

__________________
You bore me.... next.

edziu

I spent 22 years in the military. It started out in 1966, yes I would do it all over again, but thats just me. You have to do some deep soul searching and you will come up with the answer on your own. Good luck to you.

william

Bottom line - Officers matter more than enlisted (any branch). Plus, retirement benefits are better. If you choose to enlist, do so w/the officer corps. The pay and the benes are worth it. OCS is no worse than basic (think Officer and a Gentleman), but you, as a college grad, will be expected to be more intelligent than the basic soldier.
If you want a soldier to respect you, do as you say. Show them that you are willing to do what you ask. I had a LT in basic that couldn't rapel (WestPoint Grad). We laughed when he busted his ass on the ground, even though we were scared to go up. But we did it.
True Bottom Line - care about your troops. They will save your ass. Attitude is #1 - if you can't show it, they won't have it.

Carno

I'm thinking of joing the Marine Corps after college. I'm going to flight school right now, and if I can't get a flight slot in the Marines I'm not gonna join. Does anyone know how hard it is to get into OCS and get a flight contract in the Marine Corps? I think I definitely have what it takes to be a Marine, but I'm not gonna waste my 4 year degree being an enlisted grunt.

cd45

I did 10 years in the Air Force. I would do it again but. I would not go in now for any reason. I really enjoyed my time. I was enlisted, a jet engine mechanic, and now I am still ajet engine mechanic working for the Air Force as a civilian. Good luck.

Suave

Thoughts: the armed forces (frontline service anyways) are not a good career option.

Opinion: although I'd just say "don't do it", the Air Force is probably one of the better choices. I wouldn't join any regular armed service (I've considered the reserves though) just because I don't want to submit myself to intense resocialization, or in less sophisticated terminology, brainwashing. What I know of military resocialization is primarily the army and Marines (NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER join the Marines), so the scope is a bit limited, but it's safe to say that there is still a decent amount of mental and emotional tweaking that would occur in any branch. Plus, you could get killed.

Carn, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T JOIN THE MARINES. Join the regular army and excel and join the Rangers or something, but the Marines is the absolute worst outfit you can possibly join in terms of your mental and emotional well-being.

Pragma

You may not think it's a good career option, but a lot of people enjoy serving in the military - even "frontline service." I happen to think that the Marines are a very good career option - and will be joining the Marines within the next year or two. Do you care to elaborate on your "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T JOIN THE MARINES" statement?

jerry123

i thought of joining the air force so i could fly jets but then i thought wait... the army is the only place where you ARN'T free! you can quit a job. you can find a job that you love. you can turn what you love doing into a source of income. if you want to fly cool jets and enjoy the benifits then you'll love that.

Xenomorph

My political science teacher is a combat veteran and he only gives once piece of advice to people thinking about the military.

You lose more rights when you join the Air Force than when you are imprisoned in this country.

It's a lot easier to think about joining up after you've done such-and-such a thing with your life than it is to get out of the armed forces once you've taken your oath.

__________________
The facehugger is short-lived outside the egg which normally protects it. Armed with a long grasping tail, a spray of highly-concentrated acid and the single-minded desire to impregnate a single selected prey using its extending probe, it will fearlessly pursue and attack a single selected target until it has succeeded in attachment or it or its target is dead

Suave

Well, aside from not joining for God's love, the elaboration would entail me giving primarily anecdotal evidence of the horrors of the USMC. Along with talking with a few current Marines (whom I found to be abrasive, hostile, and quick-tempered), I've been told by many people who were, or are, close to ex-Marines who said that their loved one (of one sort or another) was changed negatively for a long time afterwards. Finally, I've read and seen studies on the Marine Corps, and the style of resocialization they use on trainees.

This all focuses on the idea that the Marine Corps does not want a person, in the social sense of the term, to be their Marine. They want a Homo sapien that will kill when ordered, and one that will WANT to kill when ordered. In essence, when you give yourself to be any sort of lower-ranked frontline soldier, you are not a person in the employ of the military, you are a tool with which the officers can kill people. I say the Marines is (are?) the worst for this, because first of all, I've been told by many in the military (not just from other branches) that the Marine Corps is the worst in this fashion. Secondly, because other branches require "soft skills", or at the very least, more extensive technical training (other militaries differ in the uses of "soft skills" as well) which would logically detract from the kill and destroy mentality ingrained within the soldiers.

Factors are at play here, obviously, such as personality, and previous socialization. The military tries to get young recruits, not just because of phsyical prowess, but because they are more socially, emotionally, and mentally malleable. A 40 year old drafted into the military may fight, but not likely with the zeal and excitement that can be instilled within an 18 year old.

I wouldn't be surprised if I offended some military, ex-military, or future military personnel here, but I'm giving my reasons, and none of this is out of malice. I have great respect for soldiers, because although I would hesitate to become one, unless in dire circumstances (such as the immediate need to defend my country), I'm amazed at the sacrifice of their time, lives, and their social norms in order to defend their country's way of life.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there were people ready to call bullshit on this post. Believe what you may, but this is what I believe to be true, and it's unlikely either of us will change our minds.

Ustwo

I have had several friends in the airforce, all of them liked it.

One of them liked it but hated some of the idiots he had to deal with, but thats just life, not just the Airforce.

My personal regret was that Clinton was president when I was thinking about joining the Navy and everyone was talking about poor morale so I decided not to.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Delirious

I wanted to join the AF awhile ago to fly jets, but the reality of doing so doesn't come easy.

combatmedicjen

First of all...

DO NOT TRUST ANY RECRUITER, EVER!!

They WILL lie and promise you things that you'll NEVER get just to get you to join. Be careful.

Only you can answer that. Enlisting is a HUGE decision... are you prepared for what may happen when you get deployed? (there's no "if" any more, thanks to Dubya) I've been in the ARNG for a year and I'll be activated and deployed before I've been in for two. And they like to send you over to that shithole sandbox for 18+ months at a time. Doesn't necessarily matter if you're in school (ROTC) or not... if they need you and you're MOS q'd, they'll ship you out. Mid semester? Eh, too bad.

And this Iraq thing is just beginning. We're going to be in the middle east for many, many years to come.

Also, why do you feel you have to be an officer right away? Is it for the money? Retirement benefits? Just curious. I'm enlisted and I love it! I have no desire to be an officer, although I have enough credits to go to OCS at any time.

In the Guard you'll be working your civilian job as usual, except for the one weekend every month that you drill. Until you get deployed.

OFFICER=LEADER. If you don't consider yourself to be a leader, then I sure as hell wouldn't want you to be my commanding officer. You might want to try being enlisted first. You can go to OCS at any time, since you already have a two-year degree. And you might just get the experience and confidence you need to become an officer by first being an enlisted soldier. The best officers I know were sergeants before they got their commission. Just some food for thought.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

masterofblah

I've heard that the AF is currently pretty tough to get into - they are actually downsizing somewhat.

If you do get in, on the enlisted side, I'm pretty sure they have a tuition assistance program like the USCG/Navy. In the CG, I take college classes, paid up front by the CG, totally free (I have to earn a "C" or better). There's guys who have completed masters degrees with no out-of-pocket expense, and not using MGIB benefits, while on active duty.

While a lot of people say the officer corps is the way to go, I've found that I'm quite happy staying enlisted. I get to do real stuff instead of driving a desk which most O's end up doing.

As an E-7 in the USCG, I can pretty much chew up and spit out O1's and O2's at will. I'm planning on finishing my degree before I retire (I'll have 20 in a few more years), and start a new career with a "real job". I'll have health care for life, and my retirement check (albeit small) should cover my mortgage payment and grocery bill if times get tough "in the real world".

I don't think you can go wrong in either the AF or USCG. The other services just don't "do it" for me.

Dave

Carno

Actually, I would only join the Marine Corp as an officer, and only as a pilot. I don't want to be an infantry officer.

As I said before, the only way I would join the Marines is if I get a flight contract. However, even if I wasn't a pilot I'd still join the Marine Corps over the Army. I know several people who are currently in the Marine Corps, as well as several Marines that are no longer serving. Also, several professors at my college were Marine officers. They have all related their experiences to me, and I'm fine with what they went through.

I don't dispute the fact that the Marine Corps changes you, because the Marine Corps is all about making you into a killer. I have no qualms about this fact. The whole purpose of the military is to kill people, and the Marines are definitely the best at it. If I'm going to join the military, I want to be the best and fight with the best.

2sheds

another thing to keep in mind is that just because you *want* to stay in for 20 years and retire, doesn't mean you *can*.

my cousin was a captain in the army (he did rotc in college). after about six years of service, he was effectively forced to move to reserve status. he described it as basically like a staffing cutback in the private sector.

btw, he was recently called back up and is on his way to iraq. he's a good man, and i'm proud of him.

__________________
Depression is just anger without enthusiasm. It’s having an empty beer bottle but no one to throw it at.

afterhours2k4

Beware of the airforce girls that want to work in the health club industry. As a former health club manager, we hired 3 girls from the airforce that I found out later were trying to press charges for sexual harasment. This should in no way be a created stereotype but be careful and remember that you are defending the country. Dont get wrapped up in a bad situation. I commend you for feeling that you want to defend the USA. (Please no posts about how I am giving females in the airforce a bad name. This is just my minute experience concerning the 3 that I had hired. This is in no way a bash on female airforce staff.)

__________________
"Conversations Kill..."
Scott Weiland formerly of Stone Temple Pilots

xepherys

What type of MOS qould you be looking at getting into? Is there a reason you are thinking AF vs. other branches? Why officer right off the bat? Why ROTC? NG/Reserve will pay for school just the same.

First of all, you HAVE to be a leader to be an officer. You can make it as an officer even without leadership skills... but those types of officers get their men killed. If you work a paper-pushing desk job, you'll just get other people's troops killed. If you don't want to, can't be or have no interest in leadership, "O" grades are not for you. Most branches will let you sit at E-4 forever (in the NG/R) and not have to worry about leading much of anything. You can always go to OCS later. It's difficult to step from a commissioned to enlisted.

ROTC will make you a cadet. As long as you DO NOT go to Basic/Boot, you cannot be deployed. You will, however, not be earning a normal amount of points towards retirement(benefits). You will get some military experience though. If you do ROTC, but train and belong to a unit you ARE deployable... period!

If you talk to a recruiter... anything that they tell you that sounds good, you MUST get in writing, and that writing MUST be on your enlistment contract... not on a napkin or a business card. If it's not on the contract, you will NOT see it.

The Army has MANY more career options that the other branches (mostly because they perform a larger variety of functions, but with less specialty in most cases). The ARNG has great enlisted options, and great officer options. If you kinda want to lead, but a commission isn't good for you, look at the life of a Non-Com. NCO's do pretty well for themselves.

Frankly, have a game plan before going into it, otherwise you'll get rushed through the enlistment/training process, and you may not end up where you want. Feel free to PM me or email me if you have questions. Despite being Army, I'm quite open-minded about other branches.

Xenomorph

Every former officer I've talked to has said that he couldn't even think of having gone in as an enlistee, and every former enlistee I've talked to has said that he'd never, ever want to be an officer.

Anyone ever read Brave New World?

It sounds like you'll be "resocialized" to prefer whichever way you go, so, uhh, not too many worries there.

__________________
The facehugger is short-lived outside the egg which normally protects it. Armed with a long grasping tail, a spray of highly-concentrated acid and the single-minded desire to impregnate a single selected prey using its extending probe, it will fearlessly pursue and attack a single selected target until it has succeeded in attachment or it or its target is dead

cjgallen

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I've done a lot of thinking, and I'm leaning towards Army instead. Looking at the army website, I'm thinking either Signal Corps or Finance Corps (probably Finance).

I said Air Force, mostly because all I'm hearing is "omg air force is so much better!" but I'm seeing that Army may be more my style, and as someone mentioned, it has a bit more options.

The local college has an ROTC program, I'm seriously considering going that route. They'll pay for the rest of school if I sign a contract to serve active duty 4 years (maybe it was 6?). After that, if I enjoy it, I'll stay in, maybe move to Air Force/Navy if I can. If not, well, it was fun while it lasted. I'd have a math degree to fall back on, and maybe I could get a nice govt. job.

Basically, I'm at the point where I'm not too sure what I want to do with my life. I wanted to pursue a career in computers, then realized I hated it (fun hobby though). Right now, the military just seems like the best option.

analog

Why is it that people who don't know what to do decide to toss their education at the armed forces? Yeah, I like having smart/well-educated people in my military if I have to have one, but damn.

How about seeing what's available for a graduate with your credentials? No disrespect to you or the services, but it always seems like a cop-out when someone decides to go that route when they don't know what else to do.

And yeah, recruiters will lie to you to get you to join. They don't care what they say, so make sure you can prove anything they tell you that you can get.

Besides, you don't sound like you're ready to lay down your life for the love of your country... and I would think that's the #1 quality in a soldier of any armed service division... sounds like you don't recognize the frailty of your own mortality, and how easily that can be taken in the service of any military branch.

pmkuon

Spent 4 years in during the Vietnam era. Would do it again..ment lotys of good people and had a good time. Agree with combatmedicjen..don't trust the recuiters, they will tell "stories" that may not pan out. Get everything in writing with an out clause (guess they still offer that) if it doesn't pan out. Get them to send you on a couple of tours of bases.
I actually almost went in again after I finsished college, until some ROTC guy told me my shoes needed shinning. Sometimes I wonder what would have been like.

Good luck no matter what you decide to do.

__________________
wea willis

cjgallen

I don't know WTF that's suppose to mean. You don't know me or what I stand for from two posts on the internet.

I may not have expressed it, but serving my country is number 1 on my reasons to join. (I realize it's number 3 in my first post, heh)

People who tell me I shouldn't do it only make me want to do it more.

MikeyChalupa

I suppose I should plug MY service, the Navy. You do know we have more planes than the Air Force, right? Anyway, just about anything you can do in the USAF you can do in the Navy. Joining up was the best decision I ever made. I turned from a two-time college dropout slacker into a leader with so many professional accomplishments to look back on, and build on for the next 11 years of my career. I have a clear-cut goal to work for now (CMC of a CVN) instead of not knowing what I wanted to do with my life.

If at all possible, try to get a member of the service who's recruiter you are talking to, to BE WITH YOU at the office. It will definitely keep the recruiter from spinning the usual lines of BS. I was a walk-in, so no matter what my recruiter said I was joining. I had no problems with anything he told me, and looking back on it, he didn't lie to me once about anything. But then again, he pretty much knew I was joining no matter what and he was just there to do the paperwork.

I highly recommend a career in the military, but remember it really isn't for everyone. Every day we kick people out who never should have joined in the first place. It does mean a complete life change. There are those who want to call it brainwashing, I guess it makes them feel better. You will be trained to view the world around you, the people you work with, and the country you serve very differently. For it is only with this mindset, that you can truly succeed in the military. If at all possible, try to tour a military installation and talk with the most junior people you can find. See what it is they do. Ask if they like it. I guarantee many will tell you they don't but nobody gets hired directly into a leadership position. You earn that by doing the lowest, menial tasks first. When you show you can do that, you will eventually be promoted out of it and begin the really cool work. Hey, I cranked in the galley for 3 months, worked in the laundry for another 3, and this was after an 8 month school in advanced electronics. You think after all that high-tech training I didn't think that was all being wasted doing that type of work? But somebody has to do it. And the Chiefs you look up to, who bark orders at you, who are responsible for your welfare and productivity, who seem so old and crusty that you think they cruised with John Paul Jones, were once in that galley doing dishes too. And they made it to where they are. Those who decide the military isn't for them, their decision is usually made during this first year or so of service when they are TAD and not doing the jobs they were promised. YET.

I guess my point is, if you do join, remember whatever service you join will most likely be assigned some unpleasant task right off the bat. STICK IT OUT! It will get better. I'm at the point in my career (E-6) where I can look back on it and see the importance of what I had to go through, but it's never that clear when you're actually doing it.

Good luck!

-Mikey

Carno

How could joining the military possibly be a cop out???

And it's not like you're throwing away your education when you join the amred forces.

xepherys

analog - I don't think the fine folks of the Army Finance Corp lay down their lives very often. *ponder* No, I'm quite sure they don't. Even the Signal Corp is more or less safe (not 100%, but mostly).

Both are fine options where being an officer and not a leader won't matter nearly as much. As for "throwing your education away"... I don't get that. It's not like you degree disolves over the years you serve. Having military experience (especially as an officer) on your resume/CV is VERY helpful landing a good job later on. When you get out, you go use your degree. Some people enlist and never want to leave. I enlisted when I was 25... best choice I ever made. I serve part-time (barring deployment, of course) and work and continue my education in my normal, everyday civilian life. There are so many options, you can't knock htem all with one fell swoop.

Officers to enlisted and vice versa. Yeah, I hear that a lot. Primarily it seems that enlisted folks are embittered about officers, and officers can't just drop their gold shineys on the table and say "I want to be a Sergeant". As an enlisted soldier myself, once I finish my current degree program (Astrophysics) I plan to go to OCS to get my commission. Do I like being enlisted? Yup! But I think I'll like being an officer even more. THe BEST officers always tend to come out of enlisted ranks.

Fallow

Several things:

Recruiters lie. If it isn't on paper, it doesn't exist.

The Air Force... They believe in creature comforts, they mostly just send the officers out to fight, and they practice the "petty harassment/ brainwashing" to a much lesser degree.

Reverse all of that for the Marine Corps. There are reasons for that. Those reasons make sense.

The other services fall somewhere in between, and a lot depends on both your MOS and your duty station.

None of the services are a bad choice, as long as you know what you're getting into, and are prepared to deal with each's idiosyncrasies.

1. Other options include finding a different, more satisfying, and better paying job not involving the military. You're only nineteen, you have the time to go out and look.

2. Civilian world a scary place? Try Fallujah, or Najaaf, right about now. Been following the news lately? The civilian world is daunting, yes, but scary? No. Give it some time, you'll get used to it. Job security can be accomplished without the aid of the military, and usually, at lesser expense.

3. Anyone who follows the phrase, "serving my country, honor" with "blah, blah" had better think twice before volunteering his ass to the military. Yes, or no--fine. "Blah, blah"....not fine. Better make sure, it's a lot easier to get in than it is to get out.

Also, think about the phrase, "serving my country". Consider what the military is doing right now, and whether or not YOU think that it is actually serving our country. If you think it does, fine-- go ahead. If it doesn't....

4. Retirement? There are other ways to do this as well.

5. Other benefits? Yep, also available elsewhere.

I am not trying to talk you into it. I am not trying to talk you out of it. I am just trying to make sure you know both what you'd be getting into, and that there are other options. I wish that someone had told me these things when I enlisted (the first time). Oh wait! Someone did. I was just too stupid to listen to my father, who had just retired from the Air Force. I must have been....oh, maybe...nineteen.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

analog

cjgallen- "3. serving my country, honor, blah blah" HARDLY qualifies you to deliver me any sort of righteous indignation. You said "blah blah" like it didn't matter, and you were reciting it only because that's what we wanted to hear. Two posts or not, your words speak volumes about your attitude. AND it's item number three.

Also- "People who tell me I shouldn't do it only make me want to do it more." Another great attitude to have. As long as your recruiter is 9 years old, your maturity levels will match and you'll be in your perfect job. That's about the least mature response to an honest appraisal of YOU ASKING US for our thoughts and opinions. I gave my thoughts and opinions, don't whine because they don't agree with your own.

Carn: I didn't say joining the military was a cop-out. I said it sounded like HIS situtation was a cop-out, based on what he's accomplished thus far, and his meager reasons for joining up. "because there's nothing else" is a piss-poor reason to do anything, most especially something as important as becoming a part of the most powerful military in the world. Cults thrive on exactly this type of thinking in their recruits.

To both/all who whine to me- please remember that your military minds are washed to find any sort of anti-military sentiments abhorrent. Bear in mind that my comments have been perfectly on the level and strictly opinion, while several of yours immediately jump into statements and opinions that lack objectivity, are biased, and are inequitable to a person seeking real information and real help.

Cableguy

Wrong. The officers that think this are generally the ones hated by those who work for them. Our commander (LtCol, 0-5) tells us on a regular basis that we're the most important people in the AF, and you can tell he means it when he says it. It's easy to tell who actually cares about you, and who's just going through the motions. Wether or not the generals like to admit it, everyone in the military depens on everybody else. The generals aren't about to come out and turn wrenches on $40 Million worth of helicopter, and i'm not about to plan the invasion of a country. Everyone has a different role and responsibility, none of which is more important than the other.

Please clarify. I certianly don't feel like a prisoner, and I sure as shit have more rights than a prisoner.

Pave Low LEADS. Or so goes the motto.

cjgallen

I would have written an essay if I knew people were gonna bite my head off. A couple days ago, this Master Sergeant asked me if I was worried about the draft. He told me "I bet you'd be out with all your college buddies protesting, huh?" I responsed "I'm not going to run. My head's already shaved, I'm ready to go." He called me a "true patriot." I'm not going to ramble about my undying love for my country, but I can assure you it's there. I realize I may go to Iraq, and I'm ok with that. I don't really agree with the reasons that got us there, but I'd give it my all regardless. I could very well die, but I take that risk driving 80mph to work every day.

I never said there was nothing else. I work for AT&T Government Solutions, there's lots of potential . . . in the IT field, but like I said, I want to change careers.

I work for the Army. I work directly with soldiers every day, and I've seen what being in the military is all about. This has made me want to join.

I'm looking for a career change. The military is a career option, just like becoming a chef or a lingerie model are options.

I sincerely appreciate all your comments (even yours analog). I am currently looking at options both in the military and otherwise, and I still have lots of time to give it some serious thought.

xepherys

analog - Actually, I find it quite the contrary. My mind is free from "washing" and I'm very objective about the situation. I didn't enlist after high school with nothing better to do and my mind a wide-open book. I enlisted at 25, with a seven year old son. I walked out of a 4+ year long relationship to enlist because I felt it was the most important thing I could do at that time. I walked into the military with doubts, questions and a firm grasp of my own hard-headedness. I wasn't "broken down and built back up" the same way the 18/19 crowd was. Those of us that enlist in our 20s (and even early 30s) are looked at and treated slightly differently through Basic Training. Frankly, I find the fact that you would consider anyone's opinions to be biased solely because they are in the military to lack objectivity, and therfore you've squashed your own logic.

He came here "seeking real information and real help" regarding joining the military. It'd be better to come from those that have been in and either loved it or hated it (some people enlist and can't stand it... guess that injures your brainwashing theory again) rather than coming from someone who has little or no experience with the topic.

If you've served, then forgive my ignorance, but I've not been made aware of any such service, and assume the worst on your behalf.

thefictionweliv

I'm joining the Air Force as well. I leave Dec 14th for basic. I must say that usmilitary.about.com it the best thing for you, there is so much knowledge to be gained about everything in the Air Force from the time of day you PT in basic to the description of every job. The moderators of the forums respond to any questions almost instantly. My recruiter was new when I first when so I knew what to say to get what I really wanted in the Air Force rather than what they wanted to tell me.

I didn't really want to have the military in my life but it came to a point in my life where I'm 20 and I just can't do a shit job anymore, and I haven't started college yet cause I have trouble holding down a place to live on a food service income. I've been around military people all their life and they are the same as anyone you ever meet. I have never met a soul that was brainwashed into thinking that the military was anything more than a paycheck, some loved their country, some joined to pay bills. The military is what you make of it. People are brainwashed only if they choose to be.