British Ministry of Defence refuses to recall malfunctioning APC's - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MSD · 09-20-2004, 08:45 PM

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004432566,00.html

Quote:

TROOPS' lives are being put at risk by dodgy machine-guns on Army personnel carriers - which can fire at random because of a fault.

The MoD has refused to withdraw the weapons from service.

And modifications have been ruled out because of cost - even though top brass have known of the problem for FIVE YEARS, and it could affect the Army's entire 800-strong fleet of Warrior carriers.

The vehicles' chain guns throw out 400 rounds of 7.62mm calibre ammo in a minute.

A soldier in Iraq lost a leg after he was riddled with six bullets fired in error.

But the Army has simply issued warning notices to all Warrior crews telling them to guard against the fault.

Investigators believe the problem - officially termed "undemanded fire" - is caused by electrical short circuits.

But other worrying malfunctions include the turret rotating by itself and the back door opening without warning.

Troops have dubbed the carriers Christine, after horror writer Stephen King's killer car which takes on a life of its own.

Shadow Tory defence minister Gerald Howarth said: "By allowing this problem to persist the Government are placing troops and civilians in potential danger.

"Simply issuing a note is less than satisfactory."

Royal Highland Fusilier Albert Thompson, 35, had his right leg amputated after a Warrior suddenly opened fire on him in Iraq last year.

Armed Forces minister Adam Ingram said: "There is a very low risk of undemanded firing."

I can just imagine the memo:

To the Operators of Warrior Armored Personnel Carriers:

It has come to our attention that your Personnel Carriers may be exhibiting unexpected autonomic behaviors on the battlefield. The problems have been documented over the last several years, and are as follows:

1: The turret has been known to rotate without operator input.

2: The rear door may open at random, exposing you to enemy fire.

3: The turret gun has been known to fire without user input due to what is believed to be a short circuit.

We aren't actually doing anything about these problems, but it would be bloody rude of us not to let you blokes know about it.

Sincerely,
Ministry of Defence

Now, back to being serious. What the fuck are they thinking? These things are deployed over in Iraq. One guy already lost his leg, how are we going to explain it if a couple of wires cross and unload a whole chain of ammo into a Mosuqe, or a residential neighborhood? Someone needs to take action and fix it.

The Phenomenon · 09-20-2004, 09:51 PM

That sounds crazy.

I would like to know more about the fault though, as in how likely is it to occur, and what causes it before calling them morons.

Maybe it really does not justify a recall.

Asuka{eve} · 09-20-2004, 10:23 PM

What the hell. How can they let that happen. Any military should have safe working vehicles.

gondath · 09-21-2004, 12:06 AM

I vote for a massive recall. There's no excuse for allowing any kind of bug affecting weapons that dangerous. I can only imagine how the soldiers near those death traps feel. I'd be twitchy walking anywhere near one of those things.

jwoody · 09-21-2004, 05:05 AM

Never, ever, quote 'The Sun.'

Ever.

M'kay?

DelayedReaction · 09-21-2004, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

So true, and so sad.

The Phenomenon · 09-21-2004, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

Never, ever, quote 'The Sun.'

Ever.

M'kay?

If you dont mind my asking why not?

jwoody · 09-21-2004, 06:59 AM

Today's other stories:-

Dunst she look just ace
STARS serve up a treat at London premiere of tennis movie Wimbledon

US election terror alert
AL-QAEDA plans "spectacular" attack on US to coincide with elections

Kylie backs Rachel in band
RACHEL Stevens would lead pop giants in ultimate band, poll shows

Helping hand for Al-Qaeda
WE receive secret plans for London evacuation after a terror strike

Mick girl gets Ya-Yas out
LIZ Jagger shows off her Hot Rocks in a dress to make her dad blush

The Phenomenon · 09-21-2004, 07:14 AM

Ok point taken

Asuka{eve} · 09-21-2004, 08:03 AM

OH, jeez. I cant believe I posted

MSD · 09-21-2004, 08:15 AM

Regardless of the source, someone lost a leg due to this. There should be a recall

tropple · 09-21-2004, 08:41 AM

Just remember, this is the same country that sent WWI troops into battle with a standard issue of 20 rounds. Until well after the WWI, the army were treated as nothing more than glorified pikemen.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Tommy, Rudyard Kipling.

Nafter · 09-21-2004, 09:39 AM

i <3 the sun, makes news interesting heh

stevie667 · 09-21-2004, 01:42 PM

Thats what a labour governent will do to you, cut spending where it's really important, and throw the money around somewhere else in the vain hope it will all be ok.

However, it was reported by the sun, so i'll still hedge my doubts on how many vehicles faults occured on. I'm going with one.

Seaver · 09-21-2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

I vote for a massive recall. There's no excuse for allowing any kind of bug affecting weapons that dangerous. I can only imagine how the soldiers near those death traps feel. I'd be twitchy walking anywhere near one of those things.

I dont know about you, but I'd rather have a Armored Personel Carrier with a gun that may fire off while moving than have them take it away and make me hoof it through those streets.

09-20-2004, 09:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	That sounds crazy. I would like to know more about the fault though, as in how likely is it to occur, and what causes it before calling them morons. Maybe it really does not justify a recall. __________________ Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

09-21-2004, 07:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
The Phenomenon Psycho Location: I think my horns are coming out	Ok point taken __________________ Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

09-21-2004, 08:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	Just remember, this is the same country that sent WWI troops into battle with a standard issue of 20 rounds. Until well after the WWI, the army were treated as nothing more than glorified pikemen. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees! Tommy, Rudyard Kipling. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-21-2004, 09:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Nafter Insane Location: The Eng	i <3 the sun, makes news interesting heh __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

09-20-2004, 10:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Asuka{eve} Addict Location: Oh God, the rain!	What the hell. How can they let that happen. Any military should have safe working vehicles.

09-21-2004, 12:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
gondath Insane Location: Alton, IL	I vote for a massive recall. There's no excuse for allowing any kind of bug affecting weapons that dangerous. I can only imagine how the soldiers near those death traps feel. I'd be twitchy walking anywhere near one of those things.

09-21-2004, 05:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	Never, ever, quote 'The Sun.' Ever. M'kay?

09-21-2004, 06:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	Today's other stories:- Dunst she look just ace STARS serve up a treat at London premiere of tennis movie Wimbledon US election terror alert AL-QAEDA plans "spectacular" attack on US to coincide with elections Kylie backs Rachel in band RACHEL Stevens would lead pop giants in ultimate band, poll shows Helping hand for Al-Qaeda WE receive secret plans for London evacuation after a terror strike Mick girl gets Ya-Yas out LIZ Jagger shows off her Hot Rocks in a dress to make her dad blush

09-21-2004, 08:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
Asuka{eve} Addict Location: Oh God, the rain!	OH, jeez. I cant believe I posted

09-21-2004, 08:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Regardless of the source, someone lost a leg due to this. There should be a recall

09-21-2004, 01:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Thats what a labour governent will do to you, cut spending where it's really important, and throw the money around somewhere else in the vain hope it will all be ok. However, it was reported by the sun, so i'll still hedge my doubts on how many vehicles faults occured on. I'm going with one.