Ladies Lounge
 

I can't post in their topics or I will just get modded, so I brought it here.
I think it's a shame that women have to hide like that. I enjoy reading, or as they call "lurking," their board and wish I could comment on a lot of the things. I find that I usually get along with women better in general. Sometimes I can even help the girl out who posts, but I know I can't. I guess men seem to overpower the site, so a space for the ladies seems right, but it just sucks. I wish I could get a woman's opinions on some things so easily.
Comments on the board?

The board is there because there is an overwhelming male to female ratio. If there is a topic that you want to talk about, start a thread here. That's their place to say what they want. I really can't understand the big uproar against men not being allowed to post there. It's the Ladies Lounge, meaning it's where they can go without worrying about us (guys) bugging the shit out of them because they posted something that we don't agree with. Just leave them be, if you post in there be warned, they throw knives.

I fyou think you have really helpful information for someone who posted in the Ladies Lounge, just send them a PM.

If it gets annoying or you get out of line though, expect the mods to be coming your way. Private communication is one thing, but this is not a dating service or anything of the sort and we work very hard to keep the comfort level as such.

Knife thrower here...

The idea is women can talk to each other WITHOUT men interrupting all the time. If you want a woman's opinion on something, or our advice, post a thread in the Tilted Advice forum and be sure to say something like "Ladies, I'd really like to hear from you on this one."

All we ask is you don't interrupt our conversations in the Ladies Lounge. Is that so difficult to do?

When BuDDah started the Ladies Lounge men could post there.
I didn't go in until I was invited but many men took it as a place to troll.
When a woman would post a topic there would be forty responses from men pretty much drowning out the womans voices.
TFP is unique as a board because it offers such a variety of forums.
One of those is a place woman can talk without being drowned out.

Don't even bother with it. If there is a group that wants or needs their own place, so be it. Leave it alone.

If there was a board for one-legged Eskimo Methodists, and it was explicitly stated that if you weren't a one-legged Eskimo Methodist you shouldn't post, then you should resect that.

There are a lot of ways in interact with women on TFP without going where you aren't welcome.

I don't think they are hiding. They just have their own space.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the women read/post in the other forums as well, not just the LL. ;)

Feel free to post on the Full Monty forum if you have an overwhelming urge to comment on the female forum. ;)

Why do you feel you just HAVE TO be everywhere?

Ladies should be able to have their own area.
It gives them someplace to discuss things without the overwhelming MASS of men here on the TFP.

It's someplace nice, for a uniquely female perspective.

Leave it the alone, don't worry about it.
They are NOT talking about you.
And they do NOT need your opinion, at least in this case.

No it's not difficult and I for one think it is cool that the ladies can post without the rest of us guys bugging them.
It's the ladies corner of the board, lets just let them be.

Holy crap. *removes knives and other objects from self* Okay there's a lot to comment on so forgive me if I don't get to everything...
First of all, when I said "hide" it was not an insult to them. I mean they have to hide from all the idiot men here who drool over their posts and words. I was saying I think it's a shame that the idiot men are ruining it for the few guys who want to say something.
And I am looking for anything beyond internet chat here.
And I am not into men, I just would like to have a conversation without the babbling idiot men, too. It's not just the women who get annoyed by it.
Well over all, I really don't know why everyone jumped on me. Maybe you misunderstood or maybe you just hate me. Well whatever the case, just ignore the post. I'm tired of being called all these things I'm not. Bye.

hey now legolas, don't take it that way... we're a tad defensive about our corner, because we have to fight so hard to keep it ours. It makes it hard to talk about it without trying to justify it, like we have had to so much. so, can we try again? ;)

i agree, it does kinda suck we have to tuck ourselves into a corner to get a bit of room to breathe. But, that's the way it is. I think, probably because we're so badly outnumbered. If you really feel the need to help someone, feel free to PM them. I always enjoy getting friendly messages from people, and i'm sure others do, too. If you're looking for women's opinions, I'd post in advise and mention you're interested in women's opinions. We DO see other parts of the site than just the LL, you know ;) i hope that cleared things up, sorry you felt so attacked.

Thanks cheerios. I understand it is hard to keep and all. I just saw the new post at LL and was about to say **** it all to the women here until I saw your post. I don't understand why some women just have the need to attack men like that though. I thought this topic was siding with them if anything. Okay, I know I cannot post in it. I don't have a desire to take over every board here with my testosterone. Please just disreguard the post, at this point I hardly care anymore. You leave me alone and I'll leave LL alone.

c'mon dude, that's not the way to play it. You asked for comments, and didn't like what you heard so told us all to F-off. I try to clear stuff up, and you tell me to leave you alone? This IS a community, that means we communicate. that's the whole purpose of a discussion board, after all. No one's trying to lecture you, here, and I'm definitely not gonna disregard your words if you took the time to type them out and post them for me to see. The way to clear misunderstandings like this up isn't to say "screw it, forget I opened my mouth."

So, If there's something else you want cleared up, or something you want to talk about, give it another shot. I'm more than welcome to discuss the women's role on the TFP with you, if that's what you're looking for. just, clarify a little more, 'cuz we're having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to talk about.

this board is unlike reality. do not try to use logic to explain it

Perhaps I may be able to help. I have, in fact, been participating in the Ladies Lounge. How? Simple, by PMing to the appropriate person. For example, I read a poem that JadziaDax posted about God creating women and really wanted to let her know that I appreciated it and enjoyed it. So I sent her a Private Message. Voila, she responded. Simple. this way, I still respect that I have not jumped into their discussion, but I still participated. In fact, JadziaDax actually asked my permission to quote my message in the Ladies Lounge. Now, everybody's happy. =)

Just a bit confused... no where did anybody call you "these things" or any things for that matter. Try not to take things so personally. You want to converse with women, there are presently 28 other forums in which you can do this.

Ladies locker rooms, gyms for ladies only, women's clubs... I guess these are all myths. I guess I should call up Lucille Roberts and tell them they are not real.

Would you make as big a stink if there were a forum for people living in Ethiopia only? You're not presently residing in Ethiopia, so you wouldn't be permitted to post in there. Would that bother you? If it does, you have other issues to resolve.

I have no problem with gender-specific or otherwise limited forums. In fact, quite the opposite -- it would be nice to have a haven of sorts from "the other side" to talk about periods and laundry detergent (just kidding! :D).

However, I think that the LL should be all-or-none. Allowing men to lurk and scrutinize every post is kind of creepy. If there was a gender option in the profile, I would suggest limiting it based on that. Since there isn't, there are a couple of options. First, make it a private forum that one would need to have a password for or be in a certain group (I'm not familiar with vbulletin's user management or forum management system, so pardon my ignorance). If that's not possible, men can be kept out with few threads with naked-man porn. It works for The Full Monty forum! :P

I guess I fail to see the problem here. The board is "Ladies Lounge", as I am <b>not</b> a lady, I simply stay out. Maybe it's because I'm forty years old, but I doubt that there's anything in there that I (A) haven't heard before, (B) would care to hear about now. It's not at all that difficult guys, if you've got Willie the One Eyed Wonder Worm hangin' between your legs, then stay the Hell outa there. Give the wimmins their space.

I have gotten PMs from a few men that wanted to chat about something I posted to Ladies. That's fine for me. And I also think that some men started the sex toy thread elsewhere in the forums after LL was talking about toys.

I don't think we girls post only in LL and I atleast always figure out where to post when I got some new idea for a thread.

Sorry, cheerios. I wasn't tell you to leave me alone. That was to the million others who weren't being so kind. I have heard enough responses and am fine right now. I can PM or whatever. Thanks again.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...&threadid=6975

I am not like most men and get greatly offended when I'm included with the stereotypes. I work hard not to have it like that, so it makes my work worthless. I am sorry I made you girls feel threatened. And sorry for being sensitive to things. It's okay, just let it be in the past. I understand now.

What? There is a Ladies Lounge? COOL!!!

IMHO it's not any different than those lounges in the front of the ladies room and ladies only gyms... it's their space to let it hang out without distraction from men. And us men, we get weird ideas about what goes on in there... it's not all sapphic... it's just people trying to do what they need to do.

I read their forums once in a while.... well I did in v3.0, but since this one has been up, not once. Why? dunno... there's more than enough to read and comment on already.

When I first registered way back in the last days of 3.0 I went to the ladies lounge.. Once. The very first topic I looked at was about .. some sort of feminine problem. Never felt the need to go back since. Legolas, what you have to understand is that woman, as a rule, are whiners. Above all us they will complain about SOMETHING. And normally they are way off base. They also make alot of assumptions and generalizations. Of course so do men because I just made one but really .. again as a rule woman are defintly worse. They will run out and find the most scumbag man they can find because they want a "bad boy" or because they can not control their primal urge to find a hunter and a fighter even though that is totally useless in our socitey today.. Then they will make such comments as "all men are scum" NO you just surround yourself scum. They are also control freaks.

BBtB:
Would what you just wrote there qualify as gran scale whine full of generalisations? :)

Well of course

But I have found in my days that the woman complaining about men defintly out shines the men thinking about sex.

I think that you haven't been dating a lot of men and havne't heard them whining? :) I think that men don't whine in the open, but in the bedroom, both sexes have something to say after someone starts the querrel.

Well now you are getting specfic. I am talking just ingeneral everyday whining about everything. And sure there are men that are whiners. I am not denying that. I am just saying that woman (if just by a thin margin) are the bigger whiners.

Un-hijacking the thread
 

OK, to try and bring this post back on track, here we go.

The LL was designated as women only not so the ladies could "hide" but so they could have their own place. A place where the fairer sex could go to chat and have "girl talk" without us guys buttin in all the time.

Back on the 3.0 I read posts in the LL and even replied to a few of them. Then the LL went ladies only. I still read the threads but don't post cause that's the rules. If I see something I want to comment on, I use the PM.

One other thing to remember is all the whinning and bitching about it won't change the fact it's lady's only. This is the Unites States of Hal. His game, his rules. If you think a thread would do better with lots of male coments, start a new thread about it in General.

Re: Un-hijacking the thread
 

Yeah, I noticed that. The old ome said men could post if the woman posting specifically said men could respond or they were invited too, but now that's gone. I say good for them, you can hardly blame them for wanting a place to themselves. No need for anyone to get defensive, IMO. ;)

how about I just state that these are rules
these rules will not change in the near future
please learn to live with them

See? A guy can't even state his own opinion about women without getting jumped all over by a woman.
This issue cuts both ways ladies.
Where are the male-only spaces? (I don't mean male-dominated, I mean male-only. Dominated implies conflict, which is draining. It would be nice to go somewhere to discuss things without having to constantly defend myself)

I think the LL is a great and valuable space for women, but I do feel a male-only space would not be a bad thing. Some things men (and some men) can only discuss amongst themselves. Women usually aren't as aware of these issues as 1) they don't experience them (i.e. negative stereotypes about men, impotence) and 2) they don't know what they are, as they're not usually present when they're discussed...

i was registered before the "no men allowed" rule was made, and then was booted out once the rule was enforced.

it is a new concept for me. if i happen to come upon a group of women conversing in real life, i would have no problem "making it my business". But here there are rules i have to follow if i don't want to be banned. i have a feeling that many other male members have the same problem; they are used to rights in reality and then have restrictions on tfp. just another circumstance to adapt to.

JackSpratt I guess the main reason why we don't have a Men only area is that there are so few females to begin with, due to the fact that it is a. on the internet and b. is a site which grew out of an adult material oriented site.

You see if a lady were to post in the General area with a female specific topic, the VAST majority of the replies would be from men, and that may not be what she wants. In the LL she can be gauranteed only to get female responces.

Think of it the other way round: If a man posts a male specific topic, he is only really going to get male responces, with maybe one or two female replies, hence the reason a Men Only Area is not really a requirement. If the population of the TFP was more a 50:50 split then sure a Men Only Area would definately be a good idea.

As for responding to threads started in the LL, if you feel you MUST respond (to defend yourself or whatever) just start a new Thread here, and [quote ] the required material.

-C.S. Flim

CSflim gets the gold star on this one. At one time men were allowed to post in there. And, it seemed as though there were more men posting in the LL then ladies. I still don't understand the big deal. It's their space, leave them be. If you want to discuss something that they're talking about in there, bring it out here. Women are in the minority on the board, and what's the big deal if they have their own little corner of the board to discuss whatever they want? Give it up guys, it's not that big of a deal.

I feel all creepy and dirty if I go in there... kind of like a peeping tom.

C.S.Flim,
I totally see your point in retrospect. Just the sheer volume of men on this board would tend to overwhelm what might otherwise be a more female-focused (and potentially more worthwhile to the original poster) discussion. I really feel no need to contribute to those conversations actually anyways. Thanks for pointing it out so well. I also see your point about the majority of responses to posts on the general discussion boards (and others) coming from men. However, I have found in my (albeit brief and mostly lurkerish) time here that certain topics draw alot of female response (i.e. rape of men, sexual harassment, etc.), some of it frankly derisive, some of it not so. A male-only space would allow these topics to be broached in a less judgemental space. Perhaps its just me but in my personal experience outside this board, there are topics I will not broach when there are any women in the room, but perhaps thats just me. In any case, I won't be losing any sleep over it, its not that big a deal, more of an intellectual issue of fair play (I have a great love of debate and constructive dialogue), and when I am consistently offended, I find the Ignore User tag works pretty darn well. :)

I'm a one-legged Eskimo Methodist, and I demand my own forum!!!

I second this. A men only space would be useful for some topics and I would feel more comfortable saying what I felt about some things. In real life you have groups of friends that have both women and men and some that are just guys, and you talk about different things with each.

I think the women have it right with their LL. Men definitely shouldn't be allowed to post in there, and maybe not lurk either.

Although, on the other hand, maybe we should take greater advantage of the fact that the internet is probably the only place where you can have a completely honest conversation between men and women on a lot of these gender-related topics.

i've never clicked the LL link. its theirs, it is a forum where women can discuss matters i probably really, really rather not know about.

i can't beging to imagine the hell they'd get having to post for advice on something to have a bunch of nitwit men all shouting answers.

do i want a men's board? at times, but mostly i don't care. i think men have much fewer issues to conceal than women.

political correctness is social suicide. let them have the board and leave 'em alone.

I just scanned through the other posts in this thread so I could respond. I think the ladies having their own "place" is great.
You should feel luky you are allowed to read it.

Hell, yeah!

That's why I go there! :crazy:

What I saw was that he made a simple observation and a number of people jumped down his throat with no warning at all, even though he was labeled "rookie" and was clearly sympathetic. I got a kind of "deja vu" feeling.

People around here seem to like to assume the worst, even when it's clearly not what the person actually said. That sucks ass.

What you have seen denim is that members of TFP have strong opinions and are quick to defend things they care about.

Just about anybody who has been here very long has run into that experience.

The trick is not to take it personally and to appreciate why you received the response.

They say it's about respect, but they're willing to jump on people who aren't even being offensive just because they might be! That's acceptible to you?

This is to everyone: read what people actually say. Don't put words in their mouths. If you're not sure, ask! There is time, honest.

(edit: reworded last paragraph to try to clarify it)

Standing up for something you believe in can sometimes lead to being a bit sensitive to the subject as I am sure you know.

I try never to read things into what people say and take what they mean at face value but like everyone I have previous experiences that lead to conclusions about certain types of statements.

You are right. It is always best to get a clarification of what the person truly meant but I have found that people often try to pass off something as a joke or as unoffensive when they realize that people are reacting intensely.

Being reasonable and intelligent takes patient understanding on both sides.

If someone does it often enough, people will start to notice the pattern, and treat the person... differently.

Yes, and some people don't have enough experience to be able to step back, give themselves a minute or two to think, and then post. I have trouble with it too, that's one reason I tend to go back and edit to fix things like bad wording.

Ya see, the thing we should do is, what we should do is, when ya register for TFP, you say you're either male or female. If male, then you get access to a board called "The Gentlemen's Club". If female, you get "The Ladies' Lounge". But never both for the same person.

<lush>

I think there should be a men's forum with exact same rules as the ladies... its ONLY fair... and it's a place just for those sexes... without feeling the pressure or nervousness of the other sex replying when it's only a 'guy' thing...

Honestly, I don't care who reads or responds to my posts. Male or female. They either like them or they don't. I don't really give a shit if they don't like them. :) That's why I don't see a need for the new forum.

I could see doing it if the situation were reversed, but it's not. Oh for the day that there are a dozen tech women for every tech guy!

(mmmm.... use me, use me.... mmmmm.... make me a sex toy...)


(no, not really)

I understand why the women treasure their forum, the way it is right now. I genuinely love the idea of having the ladies lounge.

I don't know exactly how many women are on this board, but I think the number of them that stay here would be lower if the the ladies lounge wasn't around.

I don't think they're doing anything wrong there. We are allowed to read everything they write. So that rules out their plotting to kill all men, keeping only a few to reproduce with, yet.

And whenever I read something like "all men are pig", I'm happy knowing that mine is not the only party who is made to look bad thru that statement.

I visit the L.L. occassionally and I have, admittedly, "stolen" a thread or two and brought it to the G.D. board for discussion by both genders. I have always given the L.L. credit for coming up with the ideas.

Funny thing though. For the most part, men don't comment on these "new" threads; they get a couple of responses, then just fade away.

Perhaps the females in this family know what and when to discuss amongst themselves....hmmm...

Keep up the good work ladies! I appreciate your allowing us to view your thoughts....

I can't believe that there are some guys who would like to have a "men only" board.

We as a gender outnumber females on the TFP by a very healthy margin. Therefore, even if you didn't want women to comment on a thread you posted, there's an awfully good chance that they wouldn't anyway. Also, what could be so private for guys as to warrant the exclusion of women's opinions, which are frequently more articulate than what we put out? I can see why such things as impotence, prostate diseases or whatever concerns male physiology exclusively would not necessarily benefit from a woman's perspective, but seriously, what would we talk about in a forum free of any female response? They would end up reading it anyway and could bring it up in their own posts somewhere else, so what's the point?

Seriously guys, you have your male friends, you have the overwhelming majority of this board and (hopefully) you have your maturity.

hmm, how about "impotence, prostate diseases or whatever concerns male physiology exclusively would not necessarily benefit from a woman's perspective."

Hmm, maybe the same point as the Ladies Lounge, which, if you didn't realize, men go and read anyways and bring up in their own posts and elsewhere. However, I do think that the LL should be off-limits to us.
In RL, if you've got something to talk about that has to do with impotence, or maybe you feel like ranting against women because you just got in a fight with GF or dumped, or if you just want some advice on how to pick up girls - where would you really bring up these discussions? In your big (mixed) group where you'll have to worry about embarrasment (impotence), useless advice (e.g. to pick up women, you should have a sense of humor, but be responsible and serious as well. You should also be spontaneous but stable. You have to be confident but not cocky, etc.), or have to defend yourself instead of just getting it off your chest (rants against women)? No, you go and talk with your guy friends.

Maturity, riiight.

Bob Biter
First off, in reference to you question about potentially male-only topics, check the thread on male rape. There are multiple postings by women in that thread. If you had been raped or otherwise sexually abused by a woman, would you feel comfortable talking about it in a mixed gender environment? Seriously, this is not a matter to treat lightly. It does happen, and it is not always a matter of the guy getting "lucky".

In any case, I'm not sure if you read my previous post, but I only suggested the idea in the spirit of fair play. Actually, I do believe there'd be less discussion of the LL if there was an equivalent for men, even if it was never, ever used.

Furthermore, I'm obviously a rookie, so who the heck cares what I think? Its called a "Discussion Board" ya know? Its no big deal! Many of the points you make were previously expressed in a very polite (and much appreciated btw) manner. So calm down, take a deep breath and relax, K?
Peace,
JackSpratt
(articulate enough for ya?)

HiThereDear and JackSpratt:

If the tone of my post offended you, then I apologize. I went back and took out the curses, but my opinion on the matter still stands.

Obviously, there are times when a guy wants to talk to other guys exclusively. I fully agree with that. However, as I've mentioned before (and wasn't quoted on in your counter-points), the male/female ratio is stacked heavily in our favor. This means that the potentiality for any female response on male centered threads is substantially smaller than the opposite case. Even if women posted to a thread males deem "private" or "embarrassing," at least they are not physically facing each other. There's a lot to be said for the anonymity provided by the Internet.

While this argument could be construed to mean that said anonymity would also eliminate the need for an all-female board, I believe that its existence is better justified than any potential all-male board, based on my previously stated male/female ratio argument.

As for the "male rape thread" example, if the poster wanted a uniquely male perspective, he could've simply put a "male replies only please" warning on the thread title. While females would not be restricted to posting, I believe that this would be a sufficient deterrent. Rape, as was noted in that thread, is a problem that concerns everyone, which is why people from both genders replied. Also, it was posted in general discussion, one of the most heavily visited boards on this site. Had it been posted in "Titled Advice", with my previously mentioned warning, then I believe no women would have replied. Of couse, I realize that this is an isolated case.

As for my "articulate posts" comment, this was not meant to be all encompassing as if every male post was by nature mediocre, as my use of the word "frequently" was meant to convey. Please do not take this personally.

While I understand the desire for "fair play," I'm afraid I don't see what's unfair here. Obviously, if the ladies didn't feel like they were overwhelmed by male posts, they wouldn't need their own board. However, I've never seen a male poster complain about the fact that women were replying to a given thread, so, IMO, there's no problem here and an all-male board is not needed.

Nice to see some passionate discourse and that everyone is playing in the sandbox nicely.

I do agree with you that if there was a Men's Lounge there would be little discussion about the LL. But as I have watched the TFP grow of the past year, the ladies have become more numerous and also bolder in discussing things with the men and without them.

I've only been here for a little while, but I have the feeling that the male/female ratio that everyone feels is overwhelmingly in favor of males is wrong. Sure, the majority of posters to the TB are probably male. But in the forums that actually count I see more posts from women and of the regular posters I think it's pretty evenly split between m/f.
And as for annonymity, people from TFP seem to meet up regularly, so there's a chance that you will indeed meet face to face. They get to know each other well, and really even their online self/reputation is important to them, so the internet's not really as anonymous as all that.

If you think that it's sufficient to put "(replies from men only)" in the thread title, then the same could be said for women. You wouldn't need a separate lounge, just put "(replies from women only)."

Frankly, I think it should be both or nothing. This way seems to intimate the idea that men are less private and that manhood isn't as big a part of being a man as womanhood is for a woman.

Anyways, no offense taken.

legolas... i feel badly when you guys take it this way... it is important for you to know that an occasional RANT in the Ladies Lounge does not in any way shape or form mean that we group all men into one big clump in order to start our "She-ra Man-haters Club".

some days... for us women... it feels like our opinions and thoughts are drowned out by the multitude of male voices in this forum... the LL is simply a place for us to find respite... that's all... nothing personal...
and if you men really wanted a" Men's Only" lounge... where women could not post... i can safely state that we Ladies would say "more power to you" and be fine with it...

please don't take the LL too personally... we are here because we want to be and generally like the company of you men... everyone once in a while we need a break... that's all... *warm smile* :icare:

for god's sake! Leave the poor girls alone! Isnt it enough that they make an average .75 less an hour than we do? And generally do twice as much work? It doesnt seem like much to give them their own forum.

Besides, they are all so cute......