I Hate These Dogs!!!
 

Girl attacked by pit bull clings to life
By Herald staff
Monday, September 6, 2004

A 7-year-old Lowell girl mauled by a pit bull during a weekend sleepover was clinging to life yesterday with injuries that include a gaping hole in her stomach.
Naomi Libareas was in such delicate condition that Massachusetts General Hospital surgeons delayed any more surgery until later in the week when the child may be better able to handle it.
"They were going to have more (yesterday) but they postponed it because she's still very vulnerable,'' said Denise Monteiro, a spokeswoman for the Department of Social Services.
The 1-year-old pit bull that attacked Naomi also left bite wounds in her neck and arm.
Police are considering criminal charges against Lisa Rego and Todd Fratus, owners of the dog, possibly including child endangerment and cruelty to animals.
"It's still under investigation,'' said Lowell police Capt. William Taylor. "We want to look at all aspects of the case.''
Naomi was attacked Saturday morning by a pit bull named Panda in the couple's Iowa Street home, where they run a kennel boasting "the best bullies in New England,'' according to their Web site.

linkage

people that raise these dogs should be very much aware of the dangers that seem to be prevalent in the breed. i'm not condemning the breed as a whole but more the breeders / owners themselves. i mean having a pit bull in the open with kids??? what the hell were they thinking - it's just a "puppy"???

a google news search of pit bull attacks: Results 1 - 10 of about 193 for pit bull attacks

a general search of pit bull attacks: Results 1 - 10 of about 40,600 for pit bull attacks

granted some of the listings are duplicates but it just pisses me off that some people put status before child safety...

I do not understand why people keep these dogs as pets, even for protection. These dogs seem to have a history of being mentally unbalanced and you don't know what is going to set them off and cause them to attack. Any dog could really attack, but the jaw of a pit bull is much stronger than that of a normal dog, and can do a lot more damage.

I don't like pitbulls or poodles. I have been attacked by both. The pitbull left permanent scarring though.

Word of caution: we have some pit-bull lovers as members of the TFP. Based on my experience in some earlier threads, the "lovers" are much more ferocious than the dogs if you attempt to express a negative opinion about them.

Be warned. Mods, be alert.

Oh, and by the way, I hate them, too. I watched one of them fly into my yard from next door and shred my cat right in front of me about 15 years ago. I beat the dog on the head with a piece of lumber the whole time and it never even flinched. I'm told that's one of the characteristics the breeders are most proud of.

Hahah, " these dogs ".

Look, I've been attacked by a Poodle because I looked at it the wrong way. Sure Pitbulls are aggressive breeds. Does that make every one of them a killer?

I've left a friends pitbull to guard my house and my little cousins. What do I see when I come back home? Them wrestling each other and the little cousins winning. You can make a Daschund as aggressive as a junkyard dog if you treat it like one (which the owner of the above implied news probably did)

I dont think is a general problem with Pit Bulls. I see it as a "self fulfilling prophecy". People who buy a Pit Bull often want a "dangerous dog" and as a result those people train their dogs to become "dangerous".

I agree that it's often the person who buys a pitbull is looking for a "dangerous" dog, and does not train them to be friendly with people. The pitbull that attacked me was friendly, but I went to pet him (did the whole hold your fist out for him to smell), and he latched onto my wrist. Had no time to pull back, or anything, and my natural reaction was to kick it as hard as I could, because he wasn't letting go. After kicking it once, he released, and I kicked it again, and pulled myself back into the house and slammed the door (leaving him outside). Girlfriend at the time yelled at me for kicking her dog, completely ignoring the fact that I was bleeding profusely from my wrist. We broke up shortly after.

People who get pitbulls (dogs in general) as a pet should realize what they're getting themselves into. I do feel when a dog attacks someone the owner of that pet should be ready to take full responsibility of what happens.

Yup. I've delt with a few pit bulls that were very nice dogs, but I've also delt with ones that should have been shot. I tend to blame the owners that don't have a clue how to properly train the dog.

Pit Bulls aren't automatically dispositioned to be killers. The problem is that people who buy these dogs aren't prepared to deal with this difficult breed. Plus, I'm sure there is a stigma that makes people raise these dogs in a more agressive manner.

It also doesn't help that these dogs have been overbred and inbred way too much. There is a huge difference between a very expensive, well bred Pit and an inexpensive, poorly bred Pit.

I don't want to stereotype, but it seems the majority of Pit Bull's that attack people are owned by poor, urban families. Not being able to afford a well bred dog, a large enough and well fenced yard, and adequate obedience training all factors into making these dangerous dogs.

And if there is any question on whether the owners should be charged... there is none. Throw the book at them and destroy the dog.

Pit bulls are bad news.

I regularly hear of the owners, neighbours etc getting mauled, injured and killed by these dogs.

They obviously not the kind of pet to have around. I dont know why people keep 'em.

There's actually a call up here in Ontario to ban all pit bulls after a 25 year old Toronto man was mauled, and later hospitalized by his own pit bulls (two of them). I really don't know what to think about these dogs, sometimes.

On one hand, you've got a dog that is proned to being very aggressive, not unlike a Doberman or a Rottweiller. At the very least, there needs to be a mandatory law that these breeds be muzzled at all times (except when inside a house or a well fenced yard).

On the other hand, you've got irresponsible owners who don't learn how to properly handle these animals. Sometimes I think it's the owners of these dogs that need to be put down. A lot of people buy these sort of dogs because they fit with their personality. They want the 'macho' dogs, and don't care what these animals are capable of.

Christ that is hideous.
all I can say is my brother had one and it was an extremely affectionate dog, not aggressive in any way. i'm of the 'its the owner, not the dog' line of thought.

when I was a small child my friends had 3 pit-bulls. 2 of them were very good dogs that never would hurt a fly. One was a little crazy but still over all a good animal. I was never once attacked.

I too think that it is not the dog, but the owner....
notice... They obviously were not treating the animal well.

Gotta agree with the "not the dog's fault" crowd. They are a breed that has been bred to be protective, and they require an extremely consistent, dominant owner. I've known people who have gentle, docile pit bull mixes, but the owners are extremely attentive and the dogs are well socialized. I almost think you ought to have to sign an agreement to take training classes when you adopt/buy a dog that has pit bull in it, and if you don't provide certification that the dog has passed, it's taken away. They're not a dog for everyone and their inherent natures can be twisted, abused or neglected, to tragic end.

its noot the pit bulls i hat e it some of the owners... yes they are more of an aggressive breed than others but if raised properly they can be just as loyal and gentle as any other "family" pet... that being said the most popular of "family" dogs viciously attacked me and left me with drains in my leg and severe puuncture and tears in my leg hip elbow and shoulder.... all of which caused by ablack lab...labs make great pets... i hold nothing against that breed of dog... i do however dislike the owner that kept him chained up in his backyard with no human contact.. no love and affection whatsover.....its kind of like the saying... guns dont kill people.. people kill people... pit bulls dont attack people.... neglected dogs void of love care and affection do....no such thing as an evil dog... just people that shouldnt have a dog... i have 2 children 2 years and 1 year olds and i have no problem with my friends bringing over their "evil" dogs... becauase i have seen these dogs from the time they were puppies.. ive seen how they were raised and no that they arent going to turn on me or my kids or a stranger for that matter.... am i cautious around them???? yes i am... i would be a bad parent if i wasnt...but am i any more cautioius with pit bulls than i am with my in-laws jack russels?? nope... u must be cautious with any and all dogs... especially with children... the most friendly little beagle can get stepped on or scared or whatever and turn on someone without warning... the only difference betwwen pit bulls s that they tend to do more damage when they do turn... dont hate a dog that was not given a chance at being a good pet... not meaning to start a debate or anything i just hate it when people single out a breed saying it is a bad breed... i just wish ppl would pick up a book on it or research it on the internet... not just what the media covers... vicious satans dog attacks helpless little girl... news at 11... i am not trying to justify it when a dog attacks someone im just trying to see it from all angles... was this dog a loyal family pet that had been raised with lkids... was he provoked or was he a stray that had been dumped because someone didnt want to neuter their dog..or was he a dog that only new how to fight because his "owner" trained him to be vicious?... as far as them being fighting dogs...its not because they are the meanest dog or the most vicious its because of their size speed and the power of the bite... if people discovered that a beagle had a stronger bite than a pit you can believe that u would see more vicious beagle attacks... that just sounds funny!!

I don't thing a ban would work. I think a required dog training for dogs of a certain size would be a better idea (at least in cities were the dogs have to deal with a lot of unknown people).
Also as a dog owner I feel safer when I know that my dog will listen to me.

First dobermans, then rottwielers, now pit bulls? it's the owners and the way they raise the pet. pets are just like kids, they will take after their owners since that's the behavior they see being modeled for them. Hell, poodles can be vicious if "properly" raised. It's not a dog's fault, it's an owners fault for not raising them properly.

ughh man...those dogs. My friend want a pair of those dogs and train them to fight, I told him to go to hell.

I'd like to see someone train a chihuahua to be vicious though, that'd be a sight to behold :D

I have a friend who does Chihuahua rescue, so they always have a passel of those rat dogs in their house. They travel in packs, they are loud, yippy dogs, and they do bite unprovoked. Ok, so I laugh when they bite, but they can try to be pretty fierce, they're just hampered by size...

I have a pitbull. She wouldn't attack a person, but a dog is another story. We're well aware of her "dangers" and are responsible with her. Hell, we spent 2 grand getting her trained :p


imo its the owners, not the dog.

it's the design of their jaws. once they bite they won't let go unless you dislocate them (jaws)

if ontario does not ban them (god i hope they do!) they should treat dogs like a weapons/assault offence. if your dog bites someone or attacks them the punishment should be so harsh as to deter it. if you have a dog you better learn to contro it. In high school my friends little sister delieverd papers and was attacked by a dog that jumped a fence to attack her. forget the breed though. but i do remember it was not the first time that dog had bitten someone. that girl has to live with the scars of that attack on her face and arm, and the owners could a slap on the wrist.
pit bulls are just wrong imo. most people who have them are thug type wanna be's or whatever you want to call them. walking there dogs with freaking chains as a lead. :rolleyes:


btw i said most, not all. just have not seen too many banker types walking there pit bulls in town. got myself a chocolate lab, might lick you to death :p

Rottweilers I have a personal vendetta against, I swear I dont understand why they are kept as pets. Years ago, I was living on Staten Island, in a neighborhood populated my cops and firemen. Nice blue collar family neighborhood, not exactly a mecca for drug dealers. The fireman next door to me had 4 boys under the age of 12, and one big old Rottweiller that spent most of his days in a pen in the backyard. This pen was a chain link fence that was about 6 or 8 feet high. The kids used to play in the backyard.

One afternoon, I walked into my backyard to pick some basil, I was about 25 feet or so from this beasts pen, and he started barking... and going nuts. I had done nothing. Kinda creeped me out, so I started to walk back to the house. Next thing I know this dog is over the fence charging me... Idiot that I was turned around, and he put paws up and knocked me down, now I'm 5'9, and was pretty athletic, he tackled me, I put my arm up and he got a latch on my arm and never let go.

At the same time, the neighbor on the other side, one of NY's finest, was pulling into his driveway and saw the dog attack, he was out of his car, and had his gun drawn and fired at least 3 shots at this dog and the dog never let go, the 4th shot finally felled the dog. 28 stitches in my arm leads me to beleive this is yet another breed that serves no useful purpose.

There are plenty of Rots out there that are nothing but sweet tempered. My neighbor has one and he's an awesome dog that's a lot of fun to play with.

It's all in the upbringing. I mean, we don't write off all of humanity just because some kid shoots up a school do we?

Then why should we write off a whole breed just because ONE dog attacked you?

Pit Bulls have actually been banned in the United Kingdom, due to their repeated attacks (many that have actually resulted in death) on humans. If you are discovered with one, or one deemed to be a close enough cross-breed, they are confiscated and destroyed. I also believe you are fined. I wholly support this. They are a dangerous dog breed specifically for aggresiveness.

In Ireland, all dogs in public must wear a muzzle. Not enough to be uncomfortable for the creature itself, but enough to protect people from being bitten. Again, I think this is an excellent law.

I love dogs, but some of them are simply downright dangerous. And spare me the "dogs are just fine, it's just the owners..." nonesense. It doesn't move me the same way the similiar argument about guns being just tools doesn't move me.


Mr Mephisto

Wow, thats pretty drastic.
Was there a problem with frequent pitbull attacks in the UK?

Several kids were killed and/or mauled. Even one is too many in my mind.

France and Germany have also banned them. I suspect even more countries have done so.

I believe the original Dangerous Dogs Act in 1991 banned their import or breeding. I don't believe the existing dogs were destroyed, and some exceptions were (are?) allowed. Some background detail can be found at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2499649.stm and http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...thelegislation



Mr Mephisto

There have been many pitbull attacks in the states as well...

I recall there being some high profile individual cases where people have sued for damages, but no nationwide ban.
Interesting links...

First off, I had a Rottweiler next door from me for three years that was kept in a 10' x 8' pen year round (and we're in Michigan which can have some pretty harsh winters). She had basically no human contact except for feeding time. When she'd occationally slip out of her owners grasp and run into our yard, she'd come right in my back door landing and wag/drool/lick me to death. She was one of the "vicious" breeds that had every right due to her care to attack humans and yet was so exubrently happy for affection that all she did was kiss you to death.

On the other end of the spectrum, and I have to say that although this might sound racist, I myself am not at all racist and realize that this was a truth for us even though it might seem like stereotyping to others. DH and I lived most of our lives in and around Detroit. We are both white and he worked at a Ford plant with alot of black people. He was really good friends with 3 black men on his line and all of them had Rottweilers. All of the three's dogs were trained to be attack dogs. It seemed to be the norm that those that lived in and around the Detroit area routinely trained their dogs to protect the home and family. It is not a dogs fault if the humans that own it train it to attack anyone who isin't in the family/friend "circle".

On the same track, the show "Animal Cops" (I think) on the Animal Network is set in Detroit and constantly pisses me off. In the city of Detroit, dog fighting is such a huge problem that they have a law that says that any Pitt Bull confiscated is automatically put to sleep (isin't that a nice sugar-coated term?!). The poor dog could be the most docile pet in the world and never have seen the inside of a fighting ring, but based solely on it's genetics, it's doomed to death. Again, see above for the "I'm not racist" statement, but, it seems like everytime they bust up dog fighting rings or even respond to people's concerned calls about dog fighting, it's mainly young black boys/men that are involved. I just don't understand why breeding/training dogs for fighting is so big to inner-city black people. I myself grew up just above the poverty line (and at times my parents had to rely on government aid) and yet this kind of thing never even entered the picture (and I was born in 1971, not Ward and June Cleaver days). Pets were part of the family not a security measure or money making tool.

If I recall correctly, Pitt Bulls were one of the number one family pets In the first half of the 1900's (think Golden Retreiver's, Spaniels or Labs these days). Again, if I'm correct, I think "Petey" from the "Our Gang" or "Little Rascels" shows/shorts was a Pitt Bull (please correct me anyone if I'm wrong on that!).

It all comes down to the nature vs. nurture argument and I myself lean towords the nurture. Dogs might never have become domesticated if it was inherent in their behaviour to be vicous and distrust/attack humans, or at the very least it would have taken much longer in the grand scheme of things for us to tame them, IMHO.

Ali

Edited to add: If anyone should be against vicious dogs, I fit the bill. I was out one night to give the aforementioned Rotty a few treats, when a loose dog out-of-the-blue came around the Rottie's cage and up to me. She was sweet as until I attemped (stupid!) to hold her and read her tag (my fault). She bit me on the face and I had to go through a set of 8 shots at one time and four more once a week for the next month. I still don't blame her for my stupidity and her natural reaction.

It is indeed the owners. And, usually, the animals are the ones put to sleep. I remember when I was hanging out at my girlfriends house. Now I LOVE german sheppards. Best dogs ever, if you ask me. The dude across the street thought the same things, but SEVERELY mistreated the dog. We called AC on him all the time, and nothing ever came of it. I'm sitting in her house and hear the little girl next door scream. LOUD. And bad. In a second, I'm out the door... and I see this dog attacking her and her father. He is holding her up high while the dog is ripping into his flesh. I run, full speed and tackled the dog. He proceeded to try and bite me, and unfortunately I had no other choice but to proceed to choke him out. After the neighbors were sent to the hospital, I yelled at this guy for 30 minuites and ALMOST kicked his ass.
Everyone ended up ok, but... the dog unfortunately had to be put to sleep.
To make sure this little girl didnt lose her natural love for animals to fear, we scheduled regular visits from my girlfriends dog, a nice big ole black lab.

Sorry for the length. Just wanted to get this out.

my point was to bring light to the matter of having them around children

These dogs have been originally bred for the "sport" of dogfighting. Yes, they can be made mean or friendly, but bottom line, attacking something is a matter of instinct for them, as is hunting is a trait in most retreivers or hounds. Ever seen a dogfight? They are legal in most central American countries and are so incredibly brutal it cannot be described. For me, these dogs are nothing but a target.

*raises hand*corporate banker executive type & owner of the biggest, fastest, frisbee catching pit this side of the mississippi. thanks.

i am also one of the ferocious propenents of the breed and because i respect many of you, i will abstain from the browbeating i facilitate in other forums. over the years, i have come to realize that ignorance regarding this breed is so overwhelming that wholesale reeducation is necessary if the breed is to be saved. however, as long as human piles of shit who can barely take care of themselves continue to own and breed these dogs for 'protection' or for fighting...it will be impossible to improve the breed's situation. so i have bent to the notion that registration of this animal is the best alternative to complete damnation and elimination. if you want to own this breed of dog, you need to register with your county, city, or state. some type of approval process must be cleared before registration is granted. breeders would then not be allowed to sell pups to anyone not in possession of the proper registration paperwork. something along those lines.

anyway, the dogs are incredible. and in the hands of the responsible adult owners, as safe and predictable as any other breed of dog out there.

one thing i ask is that no one comes into this thread promulgating the same old bullshit that continues to give this dog its horrible reputation:

1) they are genetically wired to kill (bullshit)
2) their jaws lock with 200000000000 lbs of pressure (bullshit)
3) only scumbags and drug dealers own pitbulls (bullshit)
4) they are terrible family dogs and bad with kids (bullshit)


the truth:

1) they are very athletic, strong, and powerful animals which makes them very capable of inflicting great amounts damage faster and more efficiently than other breeds ... when trained to do so.

2) no amount of socialization with other dogs will make them 100% safe around any other dogs. this is pretty much the standard with any breed of dog though.

3) pit mixes are no less or more safe the purebred pits.

i could go on...but i wont.

and for those intersted in owning...please explore a responsible and accredited rescue before seeking out a breeder (this applies to any breed).

My comment to a similar thread, over a year ago, still reflects my opinion, on this subject, to this day.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...hlight=pitbull

*heating up*

i have no mullet. i dont watch nascar. i dont live in a trailer. and your preconceived notions of the dog are as wrong as they are for the owners. surely your time is better spent posting on something you are actually knowledgable about rather than promulgating your obvious ignorance on the topic. not an attack, a request.

From what I've seen in my short 24 years, after handling and breeding many different breeds of dogs, I really don't understand why people would want the whole breed eradicated. There is an exception to every rule. The same is in the animal kingdom. What I see is the fact that most people with a powerful breed often handle it well for the first 2 months then get bored with it and expect it to act like a lab. (noting that I have seen a Black Lab that would bite any animal or any person that came close) People should have to take a course and enroll the said breed in an obedience class. No if ands or buts. To say that you would want the entire breed killed is as ignorant as saying the entire human race should be wiped out because of repeated attacks on humans. let's face it, not every dog is going to be a perfect little angel. More dogs of this breed and other "dangerous" breeds will be alot better off if people started treating them how they should be treated. I would venture as far to say that people who own them should have a license and all that but that's a little far fetched at the moment. What that does is simply insult responsible owners like bigoldalphamale seems to be.
The solution isn't killing an entire breed..it's developing ways to understand and work with the breed better.

I don't think I've ever had a bad encounter with a Pit Bull thankfully. But seriously it does have most to do with ownership and training if they are violent. My sister lives next door to a family which has 2 pitbulls and I believe they breed them. Poor dogs are chained up outside all day every day....I don't think I've ever seen em feed em I'm sure they do but sis says they don't do it very often cause the dog is practically emaciated. Every once in a while they'll spray it down with the hose went it's really hot out. I pet her all the time...her and her puppy. She's the sweetest dog. Doesn't even bark at me. And the Silky Terrier my sister has mingles with them all the time and sometimes manages to get into their yard. I was at the vet not too long ago with my puppy (you all know about that..the Parvo story) and when we left a family came in with a big Pit. It walked passed me and I had my hands down at my sides and it put it's head under my left hand and started licking it. Obviously another very sweet and gentle dog. She had a little boy with her as well. I don't think you have to breed these dogs to be protective. I mean if you love em and take care of them and play with them just like any other dog they'll love you and want to protect you anyway regardless of training. None of my dogs are violent or popularly defense trained dogs but whenever a stranger comes in they are quite protective. They bark almost as though they are saying they are uninvited. Either that or they're curious and/or slightly intimidated. I mean honestly thats all they need to do for me. If someone breaks in they bark, I hear, I become alert. I don't need them to go and try and rip his/her arm off and possibly get hurt. Granted if they aren't locked in their cages I can't be totally certain they wouldn't try anything matter of fact I'm certain they would. I've only been seriously bit by one dog in my entire life and that one was a mutt....I went started petting it, patting it's head, next thing I know I looked on the ground, saw a dead bird, got a bad feeling and by the time I turned my head toward the dog again it had jumped up and bit me on the forearm and ran like a bolt of lightning back into it's dog house. Anyways obviously off subject all the rots, pits, dobermans, boxers, GS's, etc. at all these dog shows are obviously not violent dogs and are more than likely social dogs as well or they wouldn't be allowed to even compete.

Asta!!

just wanted to note that doberman's are some of the smartest, easily trained, and loveable of the dog kingdom :thumbsup:

When I was six I was bit by a german shepard. It was my neighbours dog and was predictably described as a "kind dog who would never hurt anyone." I was petting this delightful animal when it decided to clamp its jaws over my face, my parents then took me to the hospital for stitches, thankfully none of the "kind dog's" teeth hit my eyes.

In my early 20's I was home alone with my roomate's dog. Another kind and loveable dog, this time a rotweiler. I still have the scar on my hand where this bundle of joy tried to remove my middle finger.

It seems to me that no matter how kind a loveable an owner thinks their dog is, there is likely to come a time when that animal is going to injure someone. I don't hate dogs, tho maybe I should, but I certainly think they should be controlled like the weapons they are.

If I "accidentaly" run someone over with my car I get a fine or go to jail.
If I "accidentaly" let one of my guns go off I get a fine or go to jail (even if no one is hurt).
If a dog jumps the fence and bites the mailman there should be criminal charges.

Honestly, I don't think anyone should have a dog over 20 pounds in an urban setting. It's dangerous and in many cases cruel to the dog who may be forced to live in a tiny apt for 18+ hours a day. More realisitically, dog owners need to be held responsible not only for the damage their dogs do, but the damage they do to the dogs.

Yeesh, let's get some opinions in here that are based on reality shall we? What about basset hounds? They can weigh up to 90 lbs and are perfectly happy snoozing on the couch all day. Hell of the 10 I've had so far, 7 of them didn't even LIKE to go outside. You can't put weight, amount of fur, color, etc requirements on where a dog can be kept. It has to be tailored to the individual breed.

I gotta say I'm not an expert with pit bulls, and I can't write umpteen lines authoratively about why they're okay. I've met three pit bulls in my live, and they were all sweethearts. Wilson was the biggest wuss of a dog I've ever met. The other two were always energetic and happy to see anyone. My buddies had gotten the dogs as pups and simply raised them like any other well cared for dog. None of them ever acted in an unpredictable manner.

I really do think that any dog can snap and attack, they are dogs, you know? It's got to come down to the way the animal was raised, and how it's trained/controlled. I've met far more Dobermans that were violent, exciteable, hated anyone new, and were just generally scarey than any other animal. I've met Chows that I wouldn't come near without a shotgun. I've even met a Lab that was a grumpy bitch.

A breed may have a stereotype attached to it just like anything else.

Also, you know the media is going to report the living fuck out of a pit bull attack, and ignore the 45 other attacks reported the same day. So, take things in perspective.

ok...everyone can offer thier "story" about the pit that they know. here are the facts: pits pass temperment tests with flying colors and come in well above average for all breeds of dog...including the cute and fuzzy golden retriever. thus, training and handling are absolutely vital in discerning between dogs that are more or less likely to attack. please know the facts and stop spreading the media based ignorance of a great breed of dog. and also wake up and realize what many of you are proposing: extinction!!!!! that means wiping an entire breed of animal off the planet FOREVER!!! and based on what? stories?

American Kennel Club Official Tempermant Statistics (based on 2003 data):

American Foxhound 1 1 0 100.00%
American Tunnel Terrier 2 2 0 100.00%
Azawakh 1 1 0 100.00%
Belgian Laekenois 4 4 0 100.00%
Black and Tan Coonhound 13 13 0 100.00%
Bluetick Coonhound 1 1 0 100.00%
Boerboel 5 5 0 100.00%
Boykin Spaniel 1 1 0 100.00%
Caucasian Ovcharka 4 4 0 100.00%
Chart Polski 1 1 0 100.00%
Dutch Shepherd 5 5 0 100.00%
English Jack Russel Terrier 2 2 0 100.00%
English Shepherd 3 3 0 100.00%
Estrala Mountain Dog 1 1 0 100.00%
Finnish Lapphund 1 1 0 100.00%
Havanese 2 2 0 100.00%
Japanese Chin 4 4 0 100.00%
Karelian Bear Dog 2 2 0 100.00%
Lurcher 1 1 0 100.00%
Miniature Bull Terrier 4 4 0 100.00%
Old English Bull Dogge 2 2 0 100.00%
Pungsan 2 2 0 100.00%
Redbone Coonhound 3 3 0 100.00%
Russo-European Laika 2 2 0 100.00%
Sealyham Terrier 1 1 0 100.00%
Sloughi 1 1 0 100.00%
Sussex Spaniel 3 3 0 100.00%
Sweedish Vallhund 1 1 0 100.00%
Texas Heeler 1 1 0 100.00%
Tibetan Kyapso 1 1 0 100.00%
Tosa 3 3 0 100.00%
Toy Manchester Terrier 9 9 0 100.00%
Treeing Feist 1 1 0 100.00%
Welsh Sheepdog 1 1 0 100.00%
Welsh Springer Spaniel 5 5 0 100.00%
Xoloitzcuintli 3 3 0 100.00%
French Bulldog 16 15 1 93.80%
English Cocker Spaniel 57 53 4 93.00%
Bedlington Terrier 14 13 1 92.90%
Pekingese 14 13 1 92.90%
Hovawart 12 11 1 91.70%
Leonberger 12 11 1 91.70%
Flat-Coated Retriever 81 74 7 91.40%
Pug 34 31 3 91.20%
Labrador Retriever 623 567 56 91.00%
Puli 22 20 2 90.90%
Schipperke 98 89 9 90.80%
Brittany Spaniel 97 88 9 90.70%
Irish Setter 124 112 12 90.30%
Presa Canario 10 9 1 90.00%
Bull Terrier 49 44 5 89.80%
Ibizan Hound 29 26 3 89.70%
Irish Wolfhound 87 78 9 89.70%
Scottish Deerhound 29 26 3 89.70%
Border Terrier 86 77 9 89.50%
Curly-Coated Retriever 141 126 15 89.40%
Brussels Griffon 9 8 1 88.90%
Dogo Argentino 9 8 1 88.90%
Norfolk Terrier 9 8 1 88.90%
Belgian Malinois 175 155 20 88.60%
Borzoi 92 81 11 88.00%
Dachshund (Miniature Longhaired) 16 14 2 87.50%
Lowchen 8 7 1 87.50%
Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen 8 7 1 87.50%
Tibetan Spaniel 8 7 1 87.50%
Newfoundland 165 144 21 87.30%
Manchester Terrier 46 40 6 87.00%
Pointer 15 13 2 86.70%
Standard Poodle 201 174 27 86.60%
Irish Water Spaniel 22 19 3 86.40%
Siberian Husky 260 224 36 86.20%
West Highland White Terrier 49 42 7 85.70%
Bernese Mountain Dog 138 118 20 85.50%
Chesapeake Bay Retriever 89 76 13 85.40%
Mixed Breed 645 548 97 85.00%
Bouvier Des Flanders 836 707 129 84.60%
Whippet 175 148 27 84.60%
Boxer 317 268 49 84.50%
Basset Hound 32 27 5 84.40%
Mastiff 141 119 22 84.40%
Boston Terrier 51 43 8 84.30%
Alaskan Malamute 177 149 28 84.20%
American Pit Bull Terrier :icare: 446 374 72 83.90%
Jack Russell Terrier 49 41 8 83.70%
English Springer Spaniel 134 112 22 83.60%
Staffordshire Bull Terrier 55 46 9 83.60%
Akbash Dog 12 10 2 83.30%
Australian Kelpie 6 5 1 83.30%
Black Russian Terrier 6 5 1 83.30%
Komondor 6 5 1 83.30%
Maltese 12 10 2 83.30%
Wire Fox Terrier 18 15 3 83.30%
American Staffordshire Terrier 457 380 77 83.20%
Golden Retriever 637 530 107 83.20%
Great Pyrenees 125 104 21 83.20%
Saint Bernard 41 34 7 82.90%
Dachshund (Standard Wirehaired) 23 19 4 82.60%
German Shepherd Dog 2642 2183 459 82.60%
Yorkshire Terrier 34 28 6 82.40%
Rottweiler 4423 3634 789 82.20%
Vizsla 45 37 8 82.20%
Clumber Spaniel 11 9 2 81.80%
Dalmatian 299 244 55 81.60%
American Eskimo 70 57 13 81.40%
Gordon Setter 59 48 11 81.40%
Australian Terrier 16 13 3 81.30%
Cocker Spaniel 214 174 40 81.30%
German Wirehaired Pointer 16 13 3 81.30%
Miniature Pinscher 48 39 9 81.30%
Australian Shepherd 517 417 100 80.70%
American Bulldog 108 87 21 80.60%
Briard 287 231 56 80.50%
Pharaoh Hound 51 41 10 80.40%
Toy Poodle 46 37 9 80.40%
American Water Spaniel 5 4 1 80.00%
Cane Corso 20 16 4 80.00%
German Pinscher 5 4 1 80.00%
Greyhound 55 44 11 80.00%
Keeshond 80 64 16 80.00%
Rat Terrier 10 8 2 80.00%
Belgian Sheepdog 449 358 91 79.70%
Papillon 69 55 14 79.70%
Weimaraner 202 161 41 79.70%
Bloodhound 29 23 6 79.30%
Welsh Terrier 29 23 6 79.30%
Border Collie 197 156 41 79.20%
Dachshund (Miniature Smooth) 24 19 5 79.20%
Collie 761 601 160 79.00%
Dachshund (Miniature Wirehaired) 19 15 4 78.90%
Shiloh Shepherd 14 11 3 78.60%
Samoyed 270 212 58 78.50%
Greater Swiss Mountain dog 167 131 36 78.40%
Belgian Tervuren 373 292 81 78.30%
Beagle 55 43 12 78.20%
Great Dane 219 171 48 78.10%
Miniature Schnauzer 96 75 21 78.10%
Cardigan Welsh Corgi 54 42 12 77.80%
Irish Terrier 9 7 2 77.80%
Kuvasz 36 28 8 77.80%
Old English Sheepdog 45 35 10 77.80%
Pembroke Welsh Corgi 171 133 38 77.80%
Bichon Frise 26 20 6 76.90%
Airedale Terrier 95 73 22 76.80%
Portuguese Water Dog 132 101 31 76.50%
Australian Cattle Dog 140 107 33 76.40%
Doberman Pinscher 1363 1041 322 76.40%
Anatolian Shepherd Dog 21 16 5 76.20%
Bullmastiff 104 79 25 76.00%
Italian Greyhound 33 25 8 75.80%
Miniature Poodle 62 47 15 75.80%
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 37 28 9 75.70%
Rhodesian Ridgeback 204 154 50 75.50%
German Shorthaired Pointer 114 86 28 75.40%
Giant Schnauzer 218 164 54 75.20%
Canaan Dog 4 3 1 75.00%
Catahoula Leopard Dog 8 6 2 75.00%
Chinese Crested Dog 28 21 7 75.00%
Kerry Blue Terrier 48 36 12 75.00%
Shih Tzu 36 27 9 75.00%
Toy Fox terrier 8 6 2 75.00%
Smooth Fox Terrier 51 38 13 74.50%
Norwegian Elkhound 120 89 31 74.20%
Pomeranian 31 23 8 74.20%
Fila Brasileiro 11 8 3 72.70%
Afghan Hound 161 116 45 72.00%
Akita 397 285 112 71.80%
Dandie Dinmont Terrier 7 5 2 71.40%
Dachshund (Standard Longhaired) 31 22 9 71.00%
Cairn Terrier 41 29 12 70.70%
English Setter 17 12 5 70.60%
Dogue De Bordeaux 47 33 14 70.20%
Finnish Spitz 10 7 3 70.00%
Otterhound 10 7 3 70.00%
Chihuahua 33 23 10 69.70%
Chinese Shar-Pei 198 137 61 69.20%
Lhasa Apso 26 18 8 69.20%
Norwich Terrier 13 9 4 69.20%
Chow Chow 87 60 27 69.00%
Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier 29 20 9 69.00%
Silky Terrier 16 11 5 68.80%
Saluki 60 41 19 68.30%
Bulldog 119 81 38 68.10%
Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog 6 4 2 66.70%
Beauceron 9 6 3 66.70%
Central Asian Ovcharka 3 2 1 66.70%
Chinook 6 4 2 66.70%
Dachshund (Standard Smooth) 42 28 14 66.70%
English Foxhound 3 2 1 66.70%
Shetland Sheepdog 440 292 148 66.40%
Basenji 151 100 51 66.20%
Scottish Terrier 32 21 11 65.60%
Shiba Inu 23 15 8 65.20%
Standard Schnauzer 52 33 19 63.50%
Treeing Walker Coonhound 8 5 3 62.50%
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever 13 8 5 61.50%
Polski Owczarek Nizinny 9 5 4 55.60%
Neapolitan Mastiff 11 6 5 54.50%
Bearded Collie 43 23 20 53.50%
Lakeland Terrier 4 2 2 50.00%
Tibetan Terrier 10 5 5 50.00%
Spinone Italiano 5 2 3 40.00%
Skye Terrier 8 3 5 37.50%
Tibetan Mastiff 11 3 8 27.30%

TOTALS 24,892 20,134 4,758 80.90%

I dont understand what the numbers in your post stand for

sorry, i forgot to copy in the headings:

Breed Name Tested Passed Failed Percent

...or the number of dogs from a particular breed chosen to under go the battery of personality and tempermant tests. notice that for many breeds, only a handful of specimen were tested. i am not certain, but i think that the total number of specimen tested per breed was supposed to represent the approximate proportion of thier relative population.

here is another official organization that performs the testing and thier data is 2004.

linkie:

http://www.atts.org/index.html

argue all you like...the facts are available to discount any of the myths, falsehoods, and unfortunate circumstances surrounding the breed. use this information to educate yourself and others so that you dont appear ignorant in the face of people possessing the facts. thank you.

Im very curious about the numbers of dogs tested....some are very very low and some are extremely high out of 204 only 51 of those were over 100 in the number tested...what was the criteria?

Dobermans for example 1363 were tested

more information:

http://www.furryfriendsfoundation.co...03/Truth03.htm

here is an example of some stories you dont see...note that police did not include the pitbull's involvement in the report (dicks).

re:

Posted on Sat, Nov. 08, 2003

CORAL SPRINGS
Pit bull leaps to rescue
A pit bull may have saved a 7-year-old Coral Springs boy from serious injury after two other dogs attacked the boy.
BY HECTOR FLORIN
hflorin@herald.com

Anthony Romaro got the scare of his life Wednesday night when two Akita dogs, each weighing about 100 pounds, attacked him near his best friend's home in Coral Springs.

But another kind of dog -- a type also known for vicious attacks -- may have saved the boy from more serious injuries.

Witnesses said a 2-year-old pit bull named Missy played the part of hero during the attack.

Missy, witnesses say, pulled the two Akitas -- Cella and Baci -- off Anthony after several struggles during a 15-minute span.

Anthony, a 7-year-old Hunt Elementary School second-grader, is recovering after surgery at Coral Springs Medical Center. The dogs ripped much of Anthony's left ear and bit his skull before Missy fought them off of him, said Anthony's mother, Stephanie McGuire.

''He's doing better today,'' McGuire said on Friday.

Missy suffered scrapes and cuts on the shoulders and buttocks, received a few stitches, and is back home.

''Missy saved the day,'' said her owner, Scott , who asked that The Herald not publish his last name. ``She just went out there and broke the fight up.''

Coral Springs police cited Sandra Ashley, the owner of the Akitas, for not putting a leash on the dogs, not attaching dog tags, not having proper rabies vaccinations and for biting Anthony. The fines are more than $800.

McGuire, who is friends with Ashley, hasn't decided whether to press charges.

The two Akitas are at the Broward County Animal Care and Regulation Division as Coral Springs police complete a dangerous-dog investigation, said animal care spokesman Allan Siegel.

Whether or not Anthony antagonized the dogs, and how the dogs got loose, are among the issues police are investigating.

If the Akitas are found to be dangerous, one of three things could happen, Siegel said. The owner may keep the dogs if she meets certain requirements, such as muzzling them when she leaves the home, and putting a dangerous-dog sign on the property. She may also appeal the decision, or surrender the dogs and have them euthanized.

Police and witnesses said Anthony and some friends were outside Ashley's home when the dogs escaped just before 7 p.m. Wednesday.

''The dogs got out of the house,'' said Sgt. Rich Nicorvo of the Coral Springs Police Department. ``They bit him pretty bad.''

Scott, the pit bull's owner who lives next door, was drinking coffee outside his house when the attack started. He handed another witness a metal pipe to get the Akitas off Anthony.

The unidentified person used the pipe to hit the dogs, but they continued attacking.

''They were really mauling him,'' said Scott, whose son, James, is Anthony's best friend.

Scott then let Missy out of the house to break up the fight. Police did not document any information about the pit bull.

Akitas have been known to attack humans. Last month, doctors euthanized an Akita owned by Dolphins defensive end Jason Taylor after the dog bit 15-year-old Jonathon Raof on the arms and legs.

The Akita Club of America Web site states the dogs have ''complex'' personalities and, while intelligent and loyal, can ''exhibit aggressive tendencies,'' though not necessarily toward people.

another:

re:

Article Published: Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 3:08:40 AM AKST
Fairbanks Daily News-Miner

Dog helps youngster to safety
By BETH IPSEN, Staff Writer

A 3-year-old black and white pit bull resembling Pete the Pup from the 1940s "Little Rascals" shows grabbed the back of a girl's jacket and helped her out of a burning home Thursday night.

After 6-year-old Autumn Marley alerted her mother that the Nordale Road home where they were staying was on fire, the dog--also named Marley, by coincidence--grabbed the girl as she struggled to get out the back door of the burning house and helped her to safety, said the dog's owner, Jennifer Ingram.

"She's always been an awesome dog, but I didn't know she was capable to doing this," Ingram said of Marley, who she raised from a pup.

Ingram wasn't home at the time, but said her temporary roommate, Julie Marley, was cooking dinner for herself and her two daughters when Autumn noticed the entryway was on fire. The three couldn't go out the front door and Julie Marley had to force open a seldom used back door to escape from the burning building.

After Julie Marley stumbled out the back door, she turned around to see Marley the dog had grabbed her youngest daughter by the jacket and was pulling her out the opening, Ingram said.

North Star Volunteer Fire Department Chief Dave Tyler said Julie Marley flagged down a motorist who called 911 shortly before 6 p.m. By the time firefighters arrived at the house near the Freeman Road intersection, the building was fully engulfed by fire.

Ingram, 22, was shopping with her boyfriend, Daniel Martin, when Marley called her to tell her the house was on fire. By the time she got to the home, there were firefighters and lights everywhere. Marley the dog had been running loose during the chaos.

"I'm going to take her to the vet tomorrow," Ingram said. "Her feet are frostbit."

Tyler said the fire went up into the ceiling and Autumn Marley discovered the fire before smoke alarms sounded. Tyler said the cause of the fire is unknown, but it started in the entryway.

What flames didn't reach in the house, heat and smoke seemed to touch, Tyler said.

An initial estimate of the damage was $20,000, the fire department said.

Ingram was at the house Friday with generators and flashlights her boss, John Keys, had loaned her while she and friends searched through the charred rubble in 25-below-zero temperatures for anything salvageable.

"We're trying to salvage everything thing we can, but it's not really looking good," Ingram said.

The American Red Cross has supplied Julie Marley and her children with clothes and Ingram with a pair of boots. The Red Cross set up a place to stay for the Marleys. Ingram is staying with a friend.

"I just thank God that nobody was hurt," Ingram said.

Reporter Beth Ipsen can be reached at bipsen@newsminer.com or 459-7545.

I also grew up with a 180 lb. ( YES... he was HUGE) Rott who was, in essence, a oversized puppy. He loved to roughhouse, but eas always gentle enough to not hurt you. If he did, he would stop immidiately and lick your face to death.

I have had extensive experience with many breeds over the years and I don't feel that any particular breeds are more predisposed to violence than others. The problem is people who get these dogs and make them violent, either through pit-fighting or otherwise. Remember this is america and as long as a particular animal doesn't have a history of violence, they should be allowed to exist, no matter the breed. However, for the record, I believe all dogs should be obedience trained and pit-fighting needs to be fought much harder.

I agree. You have to have a liscense to drive a car, which is potentially a lethal weapon... why not require the same with owning a dog? You have to register by going through and completeing obidience school WITH the animal. :thumbsup:

bigoldalphamale,

To respond to your accusation (in another thread) that I support the "wholesale elimination of an entire breed", I respectfully ask you to read my posts.

To engage debate, and to foster open discussion, I referenced a news story and a web page that described the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 and the Dangerous Dogs (Amendment) Act of 1997 in the United Kingdom. I said I supported their destruction, as laid down in the Act, if they attack a person. I'm aghast that you imply that you yourself do not. HOpefully I'm misinterpreting you! :-)

I also said that they were bred for aggresiveness and this is patently true. They were bred to bait bulls, hence their name. To say otherwise is a misrepresentation of the facts.

Mr Mephisto

most breeds in existance today don't actually perform the tasks they were orginally intended to do.. i.e. the Rhodesian Ridgeback was bred to hunt Lion. While I'm not totally sure ..I'd bet that they don't anymore. When a person hears this they think of a powerful, graceful and somewhat destructive breed. The latter is false of course. Ridgebacks are quite gentle..my point is that while pits may have been originally intended to bait bulls.. that shouldn't really factor into why or why not they are "dangerous"

Of course it factors into why they are dangerous.

They were bred for aggresiveness and fearlessness. It's bound to impact the way they act in "today's world".

You don't hear much about Poodles attacking or killing kids. Of course it happens, but it's presumably not as common.

I don't have anything against any dogs. I support the Irish model which calls for ALL dogs to be muzzled in public. If a dog bites a human in public, that person should be able to have the dog destroyed. In nasty attacks, the state should automatically destroy the dog.

It's quite simple.

If you want a fighting dog, then keep it in control. If it bites me or my family, it will be destroyed.


Mr Mephisto

the way pitbulls have been selected by breeders is to have a cranium that is too small to hold their brain, so many of them go insane because of head size problems.
i do not believe all pitbulls should be erradicated, i think that people should be more informed before buying a dog that they might potentially not be able to handle.
if the dog mauls a little girl, the owners that were irresponsible enough to let that happen should be punished.

My turn My turn!!

Ok being that I work at a vet clinic and I have done so for many many years.....

Pit Bulls can snap wether or not they were raised to be aggressive. I have seen it time and time again. It is like something inside of them just goes "wrong". They can turn in a matter of seconds.

Pitt Bulls should not be kept as pets
Pitt Bulls should not be near children EVER
Pitt Bulls should never be left unattended with other animals

sorry I don't see the problem as the dog...come on its the owners..they should certainly be allowed to raise them if they wish, but a 'sleepover' should have never happened..
alot of regulation comes from the liability sector...its not always the best answer...the dogs should be restrained, and children kept away!

name one breed of dog that 'likes' going to the vet...come on. my GF's australian shephard / lab mix needs to be sedated with doggie valiums, muzzles, and vet techs holding multiple leashes when at the vet...its not a vicious killer dog. all studies show, time and again, that pit bulls finish above average in tempermant tests and are more stable and well tempered than almost any other breeds of dog that are more commonly kept as pets and deemed 'safe' (e.g. golden retrievers). thats a fact...there's no arguing it.

mephisto...i can easily read from your statements, that you could care less if the breed was erradicated. your obvious misconceptions about the breed have mobilized your 'patent' stubbourness to block out any chance of changing your mind about this breed of dog...even in the face of the facts that i have provided, which show that the breed, when trained under normal loving conditions, is no more or less dangerous than any other breed of dog. again, there simply is no arguing with fact.

additionally...your play on the nomenclature of the breed is ridiculous (as another poster has already pointed out). all breeds of dog descend from wild dogs which are, by nature, aggressive. they use sharp teeth and claws and cunning to hunt prey. it makes no sense to infer that retrievers and labs can have natural aggression bred away...but other breeds cannot. any trait, genetic or otherwise can be bred in and out of dogs, cats, what have you. i have a buddy in washington state who breeds ridgebacks for use as seeing eye dogs. the same ridgebacks which are used in packs to hunt lions in africa. It is quality of breeding and proper training and care that plays the biggest factor in a dog's tempermant. period.

i respect and agree with several other of your positions mephisto, but i truly am surprised at what appears to be a display of relative ignorance on your part regarding this topic. and posting the laws of impoverished nations does nothing to support your opinions. ireland is a place where puppies born on farms are placed into a sack and thrown off cliffs or into lakes. where wild dogs roam streets, fields, and forests in packs. apples and oranges my friend...apples and oranges.

*ANY* dog can snap at any time. It isn't singular to one breed. I've seen a lab destroy a pit. I've seen a Chow (which are far more dangerous in my opinion than pits) destroy a persons arm... hell I have a nasty scar from a weiner dog. The point is that the owners should be responsible and know what they are doing and have a comittment to that before they even begin to buy a powerful and beautiful breed.

Well. . . actually my 3 bassets love it. They get lots of attention from everyone in the vet office, and they get treats. Food goes a VERY long way toward influencing a basset's opinion of a situation ;)

Yes, ANY dog can turn and snap at anytime. However of the hundreds of dogs I have worked with over the years.....the PIT BULL is the only one that does time and time again.
Yes, a lot of dogs hate going to the vet. It is a stressful situation. But the fact of the matter is in comparison to how other dogs handle that situation the Pitt was the only that was the most likely to have a problem with it. They just cannot be trusted that is all there is to it. Out of all of the breeds of dogs I have worked with this is the only breed that truely scares me. They are unpredictable. More so then any other dog I have come across.

sorry that your encounters have been so negative Nikki. its unfortunate...but all studies show the exact opposite of your experience. i have two friends whose wives work as vet techs at different clinics and each one claims that a certain breed of dog is worse than others...bichan frize (sp?) and poodle respectively. as an owner, i am at the vet's office regularly and i cannot support your claim that pits are the worst as my dog sits quietly and we watch a variety of other dogs freak out and fight each other or vet techs. my gf's dog is the most playful creature on the planet...but put it in the vets office and it snarls and foams at the mouth and snaps...one bad experienc getting its nails clipped early on changed his whole attitude about going to the vet.

anyway...i appreciate your weighing in Nikki...but please do not presuppose that your experience with pits should be construed as the 'norm', because it is far from it.

I have never dealt with a bad pit bull. Sometime the ones I have seen have acted scary but have been pussy cats. I know that they can do a lot of damage if they attack but if you check the statics they are not the biggest biters. Poodles are.
I question banning them all together. We have a Chow, who also have bad reputations.
Both of the Chows we have had were brought up with a lot of love and human contact and neither would hurt a fly. The Male puts on a terrific show of aggression if you come in the yard. In fact he has broken the window out twice "going after something". You would swear he is a killer, but if you keep coming he just retreats and keeps growing and barking, usually from behind mommies legs.
The point is they are not dangerous dogs, but people think they are. Same with most pits if they are brought up right.

out of all the dogs I've dealt with.. the ones I've had the worst time with are shar-pei's and poodles.. can't stand either breed but that's just my opinion of them and I wouldn't want them wiped out just because I had a bad encounter.

Heh, I never knew poodles had so bad a reputation either. I guess I shouldn't have used that breed as an example of one that doesn't get into so much trouble!

:-)

Mr Mephisto

It shouldn't really surprise you. People shave off every hair on a poodle's body except tufts around the extremeties and two hairballs on its ass, then they put a pink bow on it's head and call it Fifi.

That's enough to piss any dog off ;)

I don't really care what studies show. Those people did not study me or my workplace. That is great that you own a pit bull and you have never had a negative experience. However you are baseing you knowledge on this issue on your own dog and "studies" that you have read. Where I am basing my knowledge on hundreds of dogs I have personally come into contact with over the years. I think that right there says a lot more about knowledge of the breed.

I love Chow Chows. I think they are some of the most adorable looking breed of dog out there. Most of em scare the bajeesus outta me though heh. I haven't met a lot of friendly ones so to speak.

Adorable though just look at em. Like a little(big) fluffy bear.
http://www.animalfrequency.org/pix/604__0.jpg
http://www.netchows.com/TinPanAlley/images/vega2.jpg
http://www.chows.iofm.net/thumbs/used/just/s_just2.jpg
http://www.stagebo.dk/Molly.jpg

http://www.chow-chow.dk/images/IMM029.JPG

They got them blue/purple tounges though...I hear those are associated it with bad temperment n what not. I don't think I find any breed of dog not cute though..I'm just a dog lover...I can't fuckin stand Poodles though...I have a bias against them though cause they're such proud lookin dogs and they groom them so sissy like they look ridiculous and they used to win all the fuckin dog shows too which really pissed me off. Cute as a button when they're puppies though.

Asta!!

There were two rottweilers across the street from me when I was a kid, and the dogs regularly stormed out of the neighbour's yard whenever they opened the gate to pull their car in or out.

THe dogs stormed us on many occasion, but this one time both jumped on my mother. My father got his pistol out and shot both dead on the spot. My mother had to get stitches in her arm and leg.

I had a friend with two rottweilers as well. They were damn sweet well-trained dogs with basically perfect behaviour. But one day one of them just for some reason attacked my sister as she was walking in the front door. Luckily we yanked the dog of her in time but he wanted to bite her.

These breeds were created to kill, and to be aggressive as hell. They are not suitable as pets, no matter how well trained they are.

I don't think exisiting dogs should be killed with a nationwide ban or anything, but they should be banned, and it should be illegal to breed them. Have all the pitbulls castrated, and then this will basically be the last generation of them. Same for rottweilers.

Ewwww....


They look like a fatter, hairier Rosanne.


Mr Mephisto

The bashing of Pit Bulls and negative treatment towards them pisses me off greatly, I myself have a Pit Bull, and I can say that Pits are the most loyal and protective of any breed of dog, the courage and loyalty which they display is without question, truly both best friend and protector. There's no such thing as a bad Pit, it's bad owners. It all depends on how you treat the Pit and raise him or her, I myself have nothing but love and respect for mine, and when I hear of a Pit Bull attack it saddens me to know that some asshole could take such a dog, one who only aims to please, protect, and be around it's owner, and take it and totally screw up it's head. But to me, no matter what I hear, I know what the facts are and still hold my dog in an extremly high level of regard. Matter a fact, I'd go on the record to say that I trust and care for my dog more then most humans I've ever met, including family...

So there is no way in hell that the dog can do anything wrong if he has proper owners? Are dogs robots?

DOGS make mistakes...as in ALL dogs. not just pits. not just rots. even with proper training...accidents happen. how many times do you not hear the part of the story where the kids were throwing sticks or rocks at the dog and taunting it from the other side of the fence. then when the dog lunges over the fence and mauls the kid, everybody's like "KILL THE DOG!!! ITS OUT OF CONTROL AND UNPREDICTABLE!!!" well, i'll tell you what...i wasnt the brightest kid, but i knew enough to know that if i threw a rock at a dog and it bit me as a result...it was my fault.

Nikki...you're a mod and so i am not going to go out of my way to piss you off. i will let people on this forum weigh your experiences (the experience of a single vet tech) against those of multiple studies done by the AKC and AKKC, which are THE authorities on dogs in this country. additionally, people should also weigh the atmoshpere of a vet clinic...it is not any dog's favorite place and i would wager, the most likely place for a dog to act out of its normal tract of behavior. experiences at the vet with dogs should not be judged as the standard of normative breed behavior. this isnt that hard to figure out.

As an aside here...don't go out of your way to piss her off because she's a member of this community, not because she's a mod. That should have no bearing, whatsoever, in the manner in which she is treated. ALL members of this community are to be treated with respect, regardless of status or position. Carry on.

not suitable as pets, no matter what? I'm sorry I have to disagree. I've dealt with many rotts, many pits, many dobermans and alot of German Shepherds as well. Yes they can be temperamental but *ANY* breed can be temperamental. The breeds that everyone considers "dangerous" are, in my experiences, the most easily trained and most loyal of the breeds. Once again, as previously noted, dogs make mistakes just as humans do. I mean really, if one nationality of human is more aggressive then why don't we eradicate them? Just castrate them and it will be the last of their generation.. it's the same thing isn't it? It's harmful to humans. People say a dog hurt a human or mauled someone and they want the dog destroyed and the people put in jail. Another person harms someone or kills another person and everyone crys it's immoral to kill a human. I'm missing the logic in all of this. These breeds are powerful, beautiful and *require lots of attention, training and love* that's the key element. Most people who obtain these dogs sadly don't give the necessary attention to the breed.

Let's look at the Lab for example, I've breed many champions and have always had top notch studs and bitches. I've done a good job training them and have only had one or two bad experiences. Everyone considers these dogs to be loveable and sweet; which in most cases is true. However, like I said I've had a few bad examples. In fact, I've seen a national breeder with possibly the best pedigree sell a puppy to someone and that dog ended up with the worst case of aggression I have ever seen in *any* breed I've dealt with. Does that mean it's dangerous? Possibly, but I blame most of it on the fact that the people took care of the pup(s) for about 4 months then they became too busy and neglected the dogs. Labs require alot of attention but not nearly as much training as pits and such do. This is where people make mistakes. They don't study about the breed and only go by looks or what they've heard. Some breeds aren't right for people. Plain and simple

While I'm at it, I don't quite understand the last part of this statement: I don't think exisiting dogs should be killed with a nationwide ban or anything, but they should be banned, and it should be illegal to breed them: this seems oddly contradictive.

human nature is human nature. if i disagree with Nikki on too many things, she will be less likely to overlook a future misunderstanding or slip up on my part, potentially leading to a ban that could have been avoided if i had agreed and coddled Nikki or any other mods on this board. i have been around long enough to have seen it happen before. i wish that all mods were robotic like in thier administration of boards...but such is not the case. your point is taken and was, before your post/warning/whatever, understood in full. regardless, i will continue to post disclaimers when i disagree with a mod on topics like this where i care far more deeply about the topic matter than my membership on this forum. thanks for the heads up though :thumbsup:

With Pit Bulls and my own personal experience with Rottweillers, I've heard a lot about loyalty and protection to family members. In most every reported case of Pit Bull attacks, it's not been family members who've been attacked, and it's not been intruders either. When I was attacked my a Rott, I was minding my own business. I'm sure this dog would never have attacked it's own family, but it had no problem attacking me, when I DID NOTHING to it. Loyalty to family is one thing, you can't expect a dog to have common sense... How do you train it as to who it can or can't attack?

i'll say this one more time and let it go...

i'm not condemning the breed but place blame on the people that know the dangers involved and have those dangers in the place of children...

and I'm going to re-itterate

given the time, training and a knowledgeable owner this dog is perfectly fine with children. here's a link describing the dogs history and temperament. http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

and another: http://www.dogismycopilot.net/pitbulls.htm

Exactly. I have a 100lb Great Pyreneese. This dog I have to drag outside so she will go to the bathroom, otherwise she will hold it until she is about to pop. All she wants to do is lay around and sleep the day and night away. She is playful and protective of my kids. She is fine with other children, but stand offish with other adults. (Our fault for not socializing her correctly when she was a puppy. Live and learn.)

Now if this big fluff ball dog ever gets pissed and bites someone, they are in trouble. This dog has 900 lbs of pressure per square inch when biting. That's a hell of a lot of force my friends.

There is a danger with every dog breed around. I had a great dane that was extreamly playfull. A neighborhood girl came up and asked if she could pet the dog. I made the dog sit, girl put her hand out for the dog to smell, dog lunges at the girl and bites her arm. Nothing to serious, but she does have a couple puncture scars now, I am also short great dane. We had her put down.

People need to research the breed of dog before they buy it. They need to know all the downsides to owning that type of dog. All the problems associated with it and the responsibilities. I like my dogs because they don't require much exercise or an overage of attention. I used to want a Siberian Husky, until I found out if you don't spend lots and lots and lots of time with them, they tend to destroy your house....not something I want happening, therefore I have decided to not get a husky.