Mephisto2

Breaking news...

Over 150 children hospitalized. Reports of many casualties. Hostage takers using children as human shields.

Breaking news story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm


Mr Mephisto

Cynthetiq

1,500 people were in that school??? wow. I'm glad that the major part of the crisis is over and that the least amount of life was lost. A shame that some of them got away.

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raeanna74

I really wish I could understand the mentality that drives people/countries to pick on innocents to intimidate and get what they want? Personally you threaten my child and I'm gonna saw your head off if I can get my hands on you.

So often children and helpless are used as a tool. Even here in the U.S. I've seen parents use their own children as a tool to hurt their former spouse. It's just so wrong.

I'm glad that many have now escaped. I hope all the instigators of this scene are caught and dealt with appropriately. They need to find a better way to get their independance. This is not it.

Pictures
I'm curious about the pics. Almost half the children in the pics have no shirts on? Why? I realize they may have removed the shirts to take care of wounds in some pics but there are some pics where they're obviously not being treated YET. Just looked wierd.

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Mephisto2

I couldn't agree with you more raeanna. This action has devalued their entire cause in the eyes of the world; or at least most of it.


Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

8:31 PM Western Australian time.

Latest news is that "all hostages are out of the school". I hope there were no, or very few, fatalities amongst the children.


Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

You can monitor the history of events, and breaking news, at this URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624136.stm

Mr Mephisto

denim

Y'know, before this I was undecided about these people. Now that they're taking mass quantities of children as hostages, I say let the Russians kill them all. "Let God sort them out."

I'm annoyed.

Bill O'Rights

Y'know denim...I'm inclined to agree. The Chechans have lost any semblance of legitamacy and support that my mind may once have given them. Although I deplore the fact that they had to, I applaud the Russians for doing what they were forced to do. And damn those that forced them to do it. I guess I've never really hated any one particular group of people enough to view their children as future enemies.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

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sailor

Well said, BOR. I think you just summed up what a lot of us are feeling.

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pedro padilla

watching now on tv. some seriously fucked up shit. oh yeah, really makes my heart ache for their "cause". geezuz, take that godforsaken piece of shit land and LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE.

Mojo_PeiPei

I wonder how long it will take Putin to get the retribution train rolling.

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powerclown

I too, would agree, but in this case, the hostages were massacred too. I guess if youre putin, and this is how you wanted to handle it, mission accomplished. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater...

dbcb

once i heard about that, i was wondering what multiple of 100 people would get killed. Same as the theatre siege, they need team rainbow or something.

Bill O'Rights

I seriously doubt that this is how Putin wanted to handle it. What would you have had him done differently? Acquiesce? Parents are mourning children today...CHILDREN! Not because of Putin...but because of terrorists attacking innocent children. Point one of those kids out to me that was involved, in any way shape or form, in the Russian policies relating to Chechnya. Cowards.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

clavus

Bill O Rights speaks the truth...and a much kinder version of my personal opinion.

Those fuckers were TARGETING children. Where is the outcry from the Chechen community (or for that matter, from the rest of the Muslim world)? Sorry, but the Chechens have shown their society to be so fundamentally flawed, so patently evil that they should be cut from this earth like a cancer. This is black and white. There are no shades of gray. These kids weren't caught in the crossfire, or innocent bystanders. They were targets. They were used as instruments of terror. Drop a fucking nuke on Chechnya and I won't give a shit.

Go ahead and point out that there are kids in Chechnya too. It is unfortunate. But what can you do? Wait for them to grow up and start killing more Russian kids? Nope. When a group of people is so incredibly screwed up that they think this shit is OK, then it's time to thin the herd.

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tropple

If (BALLS == 1) {
ACTION(fight,soldiers)
} else {
ACTION(murder,civilians)
PRINT("Must be chechens.")
}
ENDIF

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meembo

There were lots and lots of kids and other hostages killed. I've been reading reports of what the parents there were saying and doing during and after the battle there this afternoon -- parents showing up with guns and assaulting the school with the soldiers and the police. Evidently the roof of the gym collapsed, killing many, and there are still fighters holed up.

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less I say, smarter I am

MSD

I seem to recall hearing the Chechen president denying any connection to this group. If I'm remembering correctly, they represent the will of the Chechen people in the same way that Al Quaeda represents the will of the Saudi population. This group was a bunch of Islamic fundamentalists, not the Chechen army.

bermuDa

please include the body of the articles you link to!

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Cowman

Agreed. I think a few of you need to take your racism elsewhere.."drop a nuke on chechnya and I won't care" .. wtf?

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You don't like my point of view..but im insane

denim

That's not racism.

World's King

Where's James Bond when you need him?

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

clavus

Call me a racist if you want. Those scumbags are allowed to operate by the Chechen community. If the community did not support them, they could not operate. Their culture of murder has no value to me.

If the community of killers is wiped out. I'll shed no tears. If that is racist, then I am a racist.

__________________
Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

Pacifier

it is suspected that this was the works of Schamil Bassajew (Picture). it looks like his "style" - he was the guy that stormed the hospital in 1995 and took 2000 hostages.

The Chechens see him conflicting - he fights the russians, so from their point of view he is a "good guy" but they also know that his ruthless actions fuel the violence and making a peaceful solution impossible.

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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

powerclown

I understand, man, but what do you think these goddamn maniac terrorists are going to do if you just break down the door and storm the place? Start killing EVERYBODY. Which is apparently what they did, the bastards.

tropple

Gee, seeing the charred corpses in gym certainly makes me sympathize with the plight of the chechens....

Perhaps we could give them some plutonium dust to ease thier suffer?

===========

BBC World Service and CNN have both reported that the storming was prompted by the murderers shooting at children who managed to jump out of a window after one of the bastards inside set off a bomb.

The storming looked rushed and awkward because it was. The Russians were still trying to negotiate some sort of settlement but unfortunately, the instability of the situation didn't allow them time to prepare for anything else.

Building entry/clearing is one of the hardest tasks anyone can be asked to perform, and that is without any hostages. There were over a thousand hostages. No one can prepare for that scenario.

No one posting here is in a position to second guess the action of the Russians on the scene. When their hand was forced they did their duty.

Oh, BTW, the three scum sucking mother rapers in the school's basement were captured alive. May they suffoccate in bacon grease.

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Cowman

It's not? He's generalizing an entire "race" on the actions of a few members, and condoning the mass killing of the entire "race"...so what is that?

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You don't like my point of view..but im insane

denim

What race is that? Chechnya is an area on the planet, no race involved.

Cowman

I understand that, note the quotations around race...im using racism for lack of a better word. It's like how people will often refer to "racism" against Jews..when obviously "Jewish" isn't a race.

Either way, call it prejudice or whatever, but it's blatant and stupid.

ps. If the sole purpose of your original post was not to disagree that he was prejudicing an entire society because of the act of a few, but instead to try and pick out a technicality like that..then I suggest you, uhm, put your time into things more constructive.

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You don't like my point of view..but im insane

denim

I disagree. We need to make it VERY clear that such behavoir gets everyone you ever knew wiped out, including your family, your friends, your coworkers, your religious leaders, EVERYONE. As it is, we're too wishy washy with these people. They don't understand what we're saying.

Lebell

Last time I checked, their wasn't a "Chechan" race.

edit:

Ah, I just read the rest.

I would suggest the word "bigotry" is what you want, even while I don't agree that he was being a bigot.

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clavus

Let's set the record straight - I wouldn't mind the violent elimination of the community of people who, by their direct and indirect support and their direct actions, are killing the Russian civilians. The people in question are by and large Chechens. This is not to say we should kill everybody with Chechen heritage.

It is not a few Chechens who are responsible. It is their community as a whole. The gunmen were supported by people who housed and fed them, hid them, armed them and did nothing to stop them. Their community has shown no remorse, staged no protest and voiced nothing but support for the downing of airliners, explodiong apartment buildings, killing people on the street and the murder of children. The sole exceptions are those mouthpieces of government, who have no other option.

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I think it is worthwhile to point out that Cowman called my argument stupid, he didn't call me stupid (though he may think it). That's the way things are done around here.

I should also point out that if you use one word "for the lack of a better word," you may want to invest in a Thesaurus.

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Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

Mephisto2

To be fair, the leader of the Chechen Seperatists disowned this action and said his troops were not involved. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

Secondly, the Muslim community in Russia has come out overwhelmingly against this attack.

Let's try not to turn this into another anti-Islamic hate-fest.



Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

Substitute the word "Iraqis" for "Russians" and you are spouting the same shit that Al Quaeda and the Iraqi insurgents say to justify their attacks on Americans.

Be careful what you say.



Mr Mephisto

whocarz

clavus, I think you are vastly overreacting. Now these people that take children hostage, then kill them are scum, and their corpses should be left to the dogs, but to kill every last Chechen because of what they did? Insane. The Chechens have been getting fucked hard by the Russians for 10 years now, because they want their own country. It is a very dirty conflict, and we have a record of every last misdeed by the Chechens, but any evil thing the Russians do is covered up. I can't say I respect a person very much when they start screaming for nukes when they get frustrated.

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raeanna74

Oh for pitys sake forget about the "racist" comment. These people did a deporable thing. They USED children for personal/national gain. I don't care what their purpose was or who they fucking were, they're an ignominious group of humans that preyed on those not responsible for any state in which they may find themselves.

It's a common reaction to generalize a group of people based on the impression made by a small few who make it into the news. They struck the Chechnian people a deadly blow by making a scene, that would be viewed on national television and display them as dispicable villians who prey on innocent children.

We must be careful not to generalize, or we include in our generalization of the population in that geographic area from which the criminals hail, the children who reside there as well. Our evaluation is no better in that case, then the terrorists who acted on their belief that the children of their believed enemy were just a guilty as the enemy themselves.

I find it dispicable and utterly repulsive that they attacked this school with the intent to harm these innocents. I grieve for these children and their parents. If I had the power and ability to return evil for evil, I feel enraged enough to do so now.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

redarrow

It would make for a good Desert Combat level.

Fire

up untill this point I was sympathetic to the chechens- for several reasons

1- moscow is far from humane or fair or even anything close to decent when dealing with chechnia

2- Moscow runs their country- if you want to disagree, you disapear in the night- if you are lucky your family gets to live to mourn you

3- they have no where near the military forces needed to liberate their country- they tried that and failed badly

4- there are no open avenues for non violent change (see 1)

and they struck me as having balls in the You kill my family, I will kill yours kind of way- and the black widows-thats fanaticism to the nth degree- not something I would fuck with-

At this point though, they have taken the whole eye for an eye thing too far- imho they are trying to bring the horrors of hell to russia, and I do not think that that will help their cause in any fashion- it will rightly bring a whole new level of hate into this thing- few are rational, no matter their nationality , when their children are murdered, especialy like this- at this point there will only be more and more blood, in a war where no one is right and the only question is how much one side can shock, disgust , and torture the other...... as for the particular terrorists in this particular incident, a horrible death would be just, televised if possible, - in this case the chechens have set the bar, and it would be justified, in the twisted logic that pervades such things, for russia to match it..................

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Mood the more as our might lessens

Bill O'Rights

As I've stated before, any sympathy that I might have entertained toward the Chechnian cause...is now lost. Until the average "Muslim on the street" realizes that these wild eyed fanatics acheive nothing more than turning potential support away from their plight, and start taking meaningful action to stop it, then theirs is a lost cause. This is not colateral damage, which is horrible enough, but this was an intentional act of targeting children. I can think of no act more heinous than that. What, I wonder, do these fanatics think would happen? Personally, I think their bloated corpses should be fed to the hogs. Take that stigma to "paradise" with you. Bastards.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

tropple

Sure, I believe him. I believe Yassar Afarfat, too.

I listened to the guy yesterday. I heard him say that serveral times. He sounds like a the stereotypical sleazy lawyer/used car dealer. I wouldn't trust him with sack of air.

Hate-fests are composed of what you bring to them. I'm bringing a lot of hate directed at people who burn children, blow up airliners and buses and nightclubs and schools, roll old men in wheelchairs into the sea from cruise ships, murder athletes at the olympics....

Are you noticing a pattern here? Can you do a little profiling to identify any specific groups who seem to me most associated with these types of activities? My feelings probably are not in-line with whatever wave of political correctedness is in effect this year, but tough.

That school attack was not some spur of the moment craziness where some socieopaths said, "Hey, like, why don't we go stir up some shit, dude?"

Perhaps it is time to put the islamic portions of the world back into the mediaeval times that they seem determine to propagate throughout the world? Let's totally destroy their technology base and hold them within their own borders. Let them Cheshire cat themselves.

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